Is MGSV: The Phantom Pain's Larger Level Design Bad?

[Nameless]

I disagreed with this take nearly a decade ago I disagree with it now. MGSV's world is a deep military sandbox chalk full of variety and possibility. Maybe I want to cause a diversion by detonating a jeep wired with explosives at the front gate. Maybe I want to approach from the mountains to the North and soften up the enemy with sniper fire while directing D-Dog to do his thing before infiltrating. Maybe the base's defenses are weak to the East, but I have to deal with some enemy patrols/convoys and smaller outpost to reach it. Maybe I decide to take a longer hike down the ravine to the West and go in quietly from the back of the base with tranquilizers. Missions consistently offer these types of options and so much more due to the open world design, along with side objectives (some timed), and alternate scenarios based on failure.

The entire point is tactical freedom, reactivity, and things taking emergent turns based on your choices & playstyle.

 

[Pyro]

Yes, thank you. I thought I was alone in the KO system ruining the game for me. Sure you can Fulton then to get them off map, but that's loud and breaks immersion

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And it costs money to do so, for someone you might not want for your base.

There is the good old force down on the ground while they shake and piss their pants option, but the number of guards and their large patrols made me sit there and wait to do it to as many as I could before moving on.

 

[Sordid Plebeian]

Would have preferred MGSV to be like 10 Ground Zeroes

 

[Thrill_house]

Nope! I loved how vast it was and it felt like I had so many options with infiltration or hiding after an escape.

 

[sam777]

Yes. TPP should had gone with Ground Zeroes level design instead of the barren boring open world we got.

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This!

 

[Dommo]

Although I don't really like the approach taken to make MGS open-world in MGSV, persistence of the world and enemy alert states is not one of them. There are lots of ways to make exciting, fair and dynamic stealth gameplay without resorting to discrete arbitrary rooms to contain it. I often find the gameplay in the original games to be frustrating and random a lot of the time so I certainly wouldn't be using them as a blueprint for how to approach modern stealth gameplay.

With that in mind, the decision to go open world for PP was so obviously the wrong decision because you end up engaging in uninteresting structures that are too small, flat and limiting to maximise dynamic, organically compartmentalized gameplay. As most people have mentioned, GZ feels like the sweet spot and should have been the approach taken for MGSV:PP.

Imagine if Hitman's reboot brought us its Paris level as the opener, and then the rest of the game was just drab open world desert with encampments stationed throughout. What a crushing disappointment that would be.

 

[medyej]

Personally I loved taking on bases and missions that way. Being able to approach from any angle, scouting it out, choosing my strategy etc. The game was built for that and it's really one of the best at it.

I would have loved if they released some DLC that was just more giant bases to infiltrate. Or a roguelite mode that gave you randomized loadouts/companions/resources for missions and you just have to make do with what you have to get it done.

 

[NightShift]

It's not bad and I do appreciate the attempt but ultimately I do think the game would have been better if it was a series of levels. They could have still made the levels large enough to make the sandbox style approach work. The development time on the spaces inbetween and filler bases would have been better spent making the main bases themselves better.

I think a lot of people forget just how big MGSV was. There was so, so much wasted space that was just pointless.

 

[Liam Allen-Miller]

I really like it and I think there are some extremely strong scenarios as a result of it, but I get what you mean.

 

[GlitchyDegree]

I disagreed with this take nearly a decade ago I disagree with it now. MGSV's world is a deep military sandbox chalk full of variety and possibility. Maybe I want to cause a diversion by detonating a jeep wired with explosives at the front gate. Maybe I want to approach from the mountains to the North and soften up the enemy with sniper fire while directing D-Dog to do his thing before infiltrating. Maybe the base's defenses are weak to the East, but I have to deal with some enemy patrols/convoys and smaller outpost to reach it. Maybe I decide to take a longer hike down the ravine to the West and go in quietly from the back of the base with tranquilizers. Missions consistently offer these types of options and so much more due to the open world design, along with side objectives (some timed), and alternate scenarios based on failure.

The entire point is tactical freedom, reactivity, and things taking emergent turns based on your choices & playstyle.

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This. I've played the game multiple times on nearly every platform it released on because the sandbox is so much fun to play around with.

 

[Alxjn]

Genuinely do not understand the sentiment that they should have went with a Ground Zeroes style game. All of the larger bases you infiltrate in MGSV's open world are just as intricately designed as the base in GZ. Open world isn't even big and for most missions the helicopter drops you off right outside the location you're meant to infiltrate.

 

[Nuclear Sorrow]

yes, stealth games should always be linear

 

[Puggles]

Yes it's bad. The levels were so boring and unmemorable. Sure you can "make your own fun" but I play MGS for the story and well crafted levels. I hated it so much.

 

[Zombie Jacket]

Yes it's bad. The levels were so boring and unmemorable. Sure you can "make your own fun" but I play MGS for the story and well crafted levels. I hated it so much.

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Good thing we've gone back to the foundations with Delta and Snake Eater.
Who knows how long it will be until we get into a new scenario and what that team will desire to do next, but I do hope we get to see them try more Ground Zeroes esque size levels Retaining the solid gameplay loop we got given in TPP. still it's way too early for me to truly able to get a sense on things of course but hopeful they will have a good footprint when the time comes.

 

[ImaPlayThis]

Yeah TPP isn't really that good, the first time you play it you'll love it but it has very little replay value as the level design is bad. It's not just the large empty open world nature that's not good either it's also how during missions you have a mission zone that if you leave the mission ends. I remember watching someone play the game for the first time and after saving Kaz and the Skulls appear they turned around to run away from them but the mission zone ends right behind you so they almost aborted the mission by accident. They were forced to play a way that they wouldn't have otherwise and that sums up TPP quite succinctly. There's pretty much only one way to "really" play the game, that being sneaking with the tranq abusing D-Dog's ability and when you check out people streaming it that's all you'll see, which is a shame.

TPP should have been better and yeah I echo the thoughts that the AI and level design was better in Ground Zeroes

 

[OrangeNova]

I didn't like the change in direction to gameplay, but it felt more like the PSP games than the previous mainline games.

I never finished it because it wasn't just my cup of tea. Not a fan of mission based progression.

 

[OnanieBomb]

The whole structure of the game is trash

 

[105]

Nah, it rules. You even nail it here:

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I have no interest in this design philosophy. It's basically the same as classic Sonic, where rote memorization of the area is usually a prerequisite to on-the-fly decision making. I don't find that fun at all.

 

[Strings]

I have no interest in this design philosophy. It's basically the same as classic Sonic, where rote memorization of the area is usually a prerequisite to on-the-fly decision making. I don't find that fun at all.

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It's on the fly by design to start. S ranks are from figuring out the levels completely.