(IGN)How Campo Santo's move to Valve does, and doesn’t, affect In The Valley of Gods

Deleted member 2840 · May 5, 2018

IGN recently did a phone interview with Campo Santo's co-founder Sean Vanaman, and they talked about the whole acquisition by Valve thing. Pretty interesting article, and here's some tidbits(more at the link)

"We made the dream game. We made the game that wasn't supposed to make all the money. We made a sad guy in the woods, psychological-slash-dramatic personal quest," Campo Santo co-founder Sean Vanaman told IGN in a phone interview.
"Now we're just trying to build a business and entertain folks who have been there since the beginning, like our fans and new fans."

"This started from Jake and I both sitting down with ourselves and being like, 'What do we want as human beings,' and then 'What do we want Campo Santo to achieve,' and then 'What do we want as game developers to achieve," Vanaman explained.

That conversation started internally, but grew into Vanaman and Rodkin having informal discussions with outside parties, including some Valve employees.

"[The conversation involved us explaining] 'This is what we're thinking about our next game. We've got some problems we want to solve. This is the way we want to run the company," Vanaman said. "That conversation led into the conversation of 'That's all really good. You guys should really consider doing that here under Valve.'"

Vanaman explained this idea came from their very first discussion.

"Then the long slow journey of thinking about what that meant and doing mutual due diligence," he said. "Is this really a good fit for us? Is this a good fit for me? Is this a good fit for Jake? Is this a good fit for all the individuals who work at Campo Santo?

"One thing led to another and now we all work here."

"The thing that was going kill our game wasn't an overlord. It's never going to be that. That's just not what exists here," Vanaman said.

Instead, being part of Valve so far has solely been an "additive" process, allowing the Campo team to operate while pulling from the Valve "mindshare" when needed.

"It's all [still] in Unity, and we use all the same tools, and we do everything the same," Vanaman said.

"The game is still limited by the skillset of all of us idiots who work at Campo Santo," he joked.

And of course:

And on the question of whether that applies to approaching Valve properties as a team making first-person adventures joining a company known for its many first-person games, there's nothing to definitively announce — the Campo team is focused on In the Valley of Gods. But, at the very least, Vanaman and Rodkin would potentially be interested in working on existing Valve franchises.

"I think for both of us, only speaking for Jake and I…yes," Vanaman said. "Jake and I met working on a…Wallace and Gromit game, and then we worked on a Sam & Max game, then we worked on a poker game with a bunch of IPs in it, including Valve IP," Vanaman said. "We didn't start Campo so we didn't have to work on [existing] IP.

"I just know that I probably can't imagine the next thing I'm working on, and that's f*cking awesome."

What does ERA think? At first I was pretty surprised, but the more I thought about it, the more I thought they to be a good fit for each other.

Fire my Gods in the Valley of the Watch if old.

MOD EDIT: Let's keep this discussion free of "lol, hats" and other dumb Valve memes.

jacks81x · May 5, 2018

As long as Valve doesn't interfere creatively, I think this is a good move. The big positive with being independent is that you don't need to answer to corporate overlords and can focus on making great games rather making games with the highest profit margin.

Deleted member 2840 · May 5, 2018

jacks81x said:
As long as Valve doesn't interfere creatively, I think this is a good move. The big positive with being independent is that you don't need to answer to corporate overlords and can focus on making great games rather making games with the highest profit margin.

Absolutely. Not being public with outside shareholders really helps on that.

SpartyCrunch · May 5, 2018

Oh man the thought of Sean and Jake working on a Valve property after In The Valley of Gods ships fills me with so much glee! Perfect fit too since most of Valve's writers left the company in recent years.

Gabbo · May 5, 2018

I hope they make Shitty Wizard as the follow up to Valley of the Gods, but it's good they don't feel Gaben breathing down their necks to change content.

SpartyCrunch said:
Oh man the thought of Sean and Jake working on a Valve property after In The Valley of Gods ships fills me with so much glee! Perfect fit too since most of Valve's writers left the company in recent years.

I'd like to see them be the guys to bring back Adrian Sheppard

deepFlaw · May 5, 2018

I don't really have any affinity for Valve's past games, so them working on a Valve thing instead of something entirely new and unique after ITVOG would probably be disappointing for me, but I'm sure it would still be pretty interesting. And, of course, that's a long ways off if it does happen. For now I'm just happy to hear that they'll be free to work on ITVOG as they wish, and I'll look forward to it.

hibikase · May 5, 2018

People are worried because over the past few years Valve have shown that they don't give a fuck about single player experiences anymore.

Hopefully this game will prove us wrong.

StereoVSN · May 5, 2018

The problem is hat if they get drawn into Valve's usual approach to projects will the team even want to make games after the current one in development.

hibikase · May 5, 2018

StereoVSN said:
The problem is hat

The most appropriate typo ever

Deep Friar · May 5, 2018

Left 4 Dead 3 anyone? :P

StereoVSN · May 5, 2018

hibikase said:
The most appropriate typo ever

I am not even going to correct that either. As you said, this mobile autocorrect seems appropriate. :)

Juan29.Zapata · May 5, 2018

I've become so cynical with Valve nowadays, that I wonder how many years the Campo Santo people will last at Valve after In the Valley of Gods releases.

hibikase · May 5, 2018

Juan29.Zapata said:
I've become so cynical with Valve nowadays, that I wonder how many years the Campo Santo people will last at Valve after In the Valley of Gods releases.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they leave roughly six months after the game releases.

Juan29.Zapata · May 5, 2018

hibikase said:
I honestly wouldn't be surprised if they leave roughly six months after the game releases.

If getting a new project going in a studio with better culture is hard for many developers, now imagine getting a new project going where a high-school kind of popularity system reigns. Unless they become that popular at the studio.

signal · May 5, 2018

Get them to write the lore for Artifact's cards.

Juan29.Zapata · May 5, 2018

signal said:
Get them to write the lore for Artifact's cards.

It's depressing to think that many of Valve's great devs were probably doing stuff like this for Dota 2 and TF2 hats. Fuuuck.

signal · May 5, 2018

Juan29.Zapata said:
It's depressing to think that many of Valve's great devs were probably doing stuff like this for Dota 2 and TF2 hats. Fuuuck.

I think Artifact looks good (._. )

Would be interesting to see some modern non-dota / cs / tf Valve output though.

DemonSwordsman · May 5, 2018

jacks81x said:
and can focus on making great games rather making games with the highest profit margin

Not really, someone needs to pay the bills. Either they make profit or the studio dies like many independent studios have in the last couple of generations.

saenima · May 5, 2018

Finally Space Asshole will become a reality.

Yukinari · May 5, 2018

I know a camp santo dev has an Era account but i hope they understand what it means to be bought by Valve in the broader gaming community.

It means you follow their ass backwards corporate structure (which their handbook lied about) or you dont make anything.

I hate to constantly have negativity in a Valve thread but thats how most people feel after you push your new game out guys.

Echo · May 5, 2018

Another valve thread, another batch of stale hat joke shit.

jacks81x said:
As long as Valve doesn't interfere creatively, I think this is a good move. The big positive with being independent is that you don't need to answer to corporate overlords and can focus on making great games rather making games with the highest profit margin.

Doesn't Valve let their people do whatever they want? That's always been their thing. People in these threads usually like to go "herp derp they gonna get stuck makin' hats 4ever" but it's just ignorance I guess?

Medium said:
"The first thing Valve introduces is their style of management which they call Flatland. Flatland is a flat management system where there are no bosses, or managers, not even the founder/president. This idea stems from their hiring process; if you are hiring the best and the brightest, why would you devalue them by forcing them to sit at a desk and do what they are told to do. There are no job titles at Valve, just people who want to work hard and produce high quality content.

Every employee at Valve is given the freedom to join whatever project they so choose, or to create a new one. They are simply encouraged to work on what they feel if the most important project to the company and what will have the highest direct impact on their customers. To support this philosophy, everyone is given a desk with wheels on it so they can zoom around the office and join whichever group they see fit."

Source: https://medium.com/fluree/welcome-to-flatland-valves-unique-culture-8372e63d664e

Jecht · May 5, 2018

Valve has a terrible managerial structure. Good luck guys.

signal · May 5, 2018

Echo said:
Doesn't Valve let their people do whatever they want? That's always been their thing. People in these threads usually like to go "herp derp they gonna get stuck makin' hats 4ever" but it's just ignorance I guess?

What does Valve's overall lack of releases say in regard to this though? They have numerous devs working on passion projects, none of which manage to ever release?

Deleted member 6730 · May 5, 2018

Is Firewatch still coming to Switch?

ILikeFeet · May 5, 2018

Spyder_Monkey said:
Is Firewatch still coming to Switch?

it is, will be the last "Campo Santo" game

Echo · May 5, 2018

signal said:
What does Valve's overall lack of releases say in regard to this though? They have numerous devs working on passion projects, none of which manage to ever release?

See this is surely ignorance right? Valve is constantly doing stuff for the industry and developers. Hardware (Steam Link, Steam Controller, Vive etc...), Game Engine, Official support for peripherals (Switch Pro Controller, DS4).

They're still doing software as well. The Lab, Artifact, and now In The Valley of the Gods.

What Campo does afterwards is entirely up to themselves now, just as when they were indie. If they want to make Firewatch 2 or something totally different they can. Nothing will stop them, and they'll even have tons of money and help under Valve's wing.

Spyder_Monkey said:
Is Firewatch still coming to Switch?

This was answered a million times in the last thread, yes.

hibikase · May 5, 2018

Valve has a great management structure.

It just doesn't produce the kind of output that the average Era member wants from them.

But that doesn't make it bad per se. Financial-wise they're doing far more than adequately.

Zhukov · May 5, 2018

Valve just straight up buying developers who were doing interesting things is what gave us Portal and Left 4 Dead, so I'm pretty optimistic about this scenario, at least in the short term.

On the other hand...

Echo said:
Another valve thread, another batch of stale hat joke shit.

Doesn't Valve let their people do whatever they want? That's always been their thing. People in these threads usually like to go "herp derp they gonna get stuck makin' hats 4ever" but it's just ignorance I guess?

Source: https://medium.com/fluree/welcome-to-flatland-valves-unique-culture-8372e63d664e

Yeah, but what have they actually made recently?

TF2 hats. And a DOTA card game thing. Anything else?

You can bang on about their unique workplace management structure until the end of time. Doesn't make the jokes any less accurate if that nifty structure of theirs doesn't actually produce anything.

Maybe they'll come out in three years with some revolutionary VR thing or whatever and prove us all wrong. In the meantime, they appear to be just sitting on their Steam revenue and twiddling their uniquely managed thumbs.

Hecht · May 5, 2018

Can we discuss this without derailing everything with "lol hats" and the like? Thanks.

Echo · May 5, 2018

Zhukov said:
Valve just straight up buying developers who were doing interesting things is what gave us Portal and Left 4 Dead, so I'm pretty optimistic about this scenario, at least in the short term.

On the other hand...

Yeah, but what have they actually made recently?

TF2 hats. And a DOTA card game thing. Anything else?

You can bang on about their unique workplace management structure until the end of time. Doesn't make the jokes any less accurate if that nifty structure of theirs doesn't actually produce anything.

Maybe they'll come out in three years with some revolutionary VR thing or whatever and prove us all wrong. In the meantime, they appear to be just sitting on their Steam revenue and twiddling their uniquely managed thumbs.

I mean, is this some lazy devs bullshit?

VR doesn't count because?
GaaS counts for everyone but Valve... because?
The card game doesn't count as a game because?
Hardware initiatives and partnerships don't count because?
Game Engine updates and managing doesn't count because?
Redesigning and improving the store doesn't count because?
Programming universal controller support for multiple peripherals doesn't count because?

Juan29.Zapata · May 6, 2018

Echo said:
Doesn't Valve let their people do whatever they want? That's always been their thing. People in these threads usually like to go "herp derp they gonna get stuck makin' hats 4ever" but it's just ignorance I guess?

Source: https://medium.com/fluree/welcome-to-flatland-valves-unique-culture-8372e63d664e

That's pretty much invalidated when you gotta work on the projects the "popular" people at Valve want you to work on, because part of your payment depends on them (along other employees) giving you a productivity rating. Valve does do valuable work, no question about it, but the fact remains that many of their prominent devs have quit and burned out with their structure. Sure, this isn't a Valve issue only, but they seem to be one of the few companies that talk about their model as if it were excellent, when it's really not.

jacks81x · May 6, 2018

DemonSwordsman said:
Not really, someone needs to pay the bills. Either they make profit or the studio dies like many independent studios have in the last couple of generations.

Sure, but when you're independent you can focus on making a great game that is profitable without being forced by suits to implement microtransactions and loot boxes all over the place.

Deleted member 2474 · May 6, 2018

jacks81x said:
Sure, but when you're independent you can focus on making a great game that is profitable without being forced by suits to implement microtransactions and loot boxes all over the place.

You're right, suits and shareholders don't force Valve to put microtransactions and loot boxes, they just do it anyway because Gabe wants more knives for his collection.

signal · May 6, 2018

Echo said:
See this is surely ignorance right? Valve is constantly doing stuff for the industry and developers. Hardware (Steam Link, Steam Controller, Vive etc...), Game Engine, Official support for peripherals (Switch Pro Controller, DS4).
They're still doing software as well. The Lab, Artifact, and now In The Valley of the Gods.
What Campo does afterwards is entirely up to themselves now, just as when they were indie. If they want to make Firewatch 2 or something totally different they can. Nothing will stop them, and they'll even have tons of money and help under Valve's wing.

When people bring up "Valve let's devs do whatever they want!" it seems like the ytry to imply there are a ton of unique projects being worked on constantly by the various devs there. People are just pointing out that this does not appear to be true if you look at their output over the past several years, unless you're saying that what these people want has been the handful of "recent" releases or updates to existing games.

Would be one thing if we saw a bunch of smaller releases over time, but that doesn't appear to be the case. "Doing whatever they want" doesn't appear to be as open as people want it to sound.

Pixieking · May 6, 2018

signal said:
When people bring up "Valve let's devs do whatever they want!" it seems like the ytry to imply there are a ton of unique projects being worked on constantly by the various devs there. People are just pointing out that this does not appear to be true if you look at their output over the past several years, unless you're saying that what these people want has been the handful of "recent" releases or updates to existing games.

Would be one thing if we saw a bunch of smaller releases over time, but that doesn't appear to be the case. "Doing whatever they want" doesn't appear to be as open as people want it to sound.

Those investments, Newell said, meant they hadn't released a new game since Dota 2—but that work wasn't wasted time. "The positive thing about the Vive is, in addition to making sure that nobody created an iOS closed platform for it, was also that it gave us the opportunity to develop our in-house expertise in hardware design. Five years ago, we didn't have electrical engineers and people who know how to do robots. Now there's pretty much no project in the hardware space that we wouldn't be comfortable taking on. We can design chips if we need to, we can do industrial design, and so on. So that added to that."

With Valve's new hardware chops, it seems like we can expect more than new games from the company. "We've always been a little bit jealous of companies like Nintendo," Newell said. "When Miyamoto is sitting down and thinking about the next version of Zelda or Mario, he's thinking what is the controller going to look like, what sort of graphics and other capabilities. He can introduce new capabilities like motion input because he controls both of those things. And he can make the hardware look as good as possible because he's designing the software at the same time that's really going to take advantage of it. So that is something we've been jealous of, and that's something that you'll see us taking advantage of subsequently."

( https://www.pcgamer.com/gabe-newell-hooray-valves-going-to-start-shipping-games-again/ )

5 years of no new games has meant they're essentially Nintendo But PC, and can orient themselves towards games now.

SaberVS7 · May 6, 2018

Gabbo said:
I'd like to see them be the guys to bring back Adrian Sheppard

Somehow looking at all their output, I doubt they're particularly interested in making the kind of game that Opposing Force 2 would have to be. At the very least they'd need to find a way to top both Firewatch and VotG for OpFor-2 to be satisfying as an Adventure Game instead of an FPS.

signal said:
When people bring up "Valve let's devs do whatever they want!" it seems like the ytry to imply there are a ton of unique projects being worked on constantly by the various devs there. People are just pointing out that this does not appear to be true if you look at their output over the past several years, unless you're saying that what these people want has been the handful of "recent" releases or updates to existing games.

Would be one thing if we saw a bunch of smaller releases over time, but that doesn't appear to be the case. "Doing whatever they want" doesn't appear to be as open as people want it to sound.

The "big" problem I've heard about Valve in regards to this is that even though de-jure management lets devs do "Whatever they want" it's ultimately the De-Facto office-cliques and politics within Valve that drag that philosophy down. I don't know much more than that so I'll leave it there.

BADMAN · May 6, 2018

Man it's been a while since I was excited about Valve's game output. It's time for the legend to come back to life.

signal · May 6, 2018

SaberVS7 said:
The "big" problem I've heard about Valve in regards to this is that even though de-jure management lets devs do "Whatever they want" it's ultimately the De-Facto office-cliques and politics within Valve that drag that philosophy down. I don't know much more than that so I'll leave it there.

Not like I can say anything that isn't a total guess but you'd think there would be more to show if it really was "do whatever you want" there.

Or maybe that's the problem. Too many people working on whatever they want to the point where there's just a lack of substantial products they can work further on and release as something.

Nessus · May 6, 2018

I just think it's funny that an acquisition is how we receive confirmation of the first single player Valve game in 7 years.

Zhukov · May 6, 2018

Echo said:
I mean, is this some lazy devs bullshit?

VR doesn't count because?
GaaS counts for everyone but Valve... because?
The card game doesn't count as a game because?
Hardware initiatives and partnerships don't count because?
Game Engine updates and managing doesn't count because?
Redesigning and improving the store doesn't count because?
Programming universal controller support for multiple peripherals doesn't count because?

Lazy devs? Nah, that's really not the angle I'm going for. If I could collect a healthy paycheck playing wheely-chair jousting in the hallways of my uniquely managed office then I'd totally do that too.

Anyway, see, what you did there was fill out your list with a bunch of shit that amounts to basic maintenance to make it look longer.

I mean, "game engine updates"? "Controller support"? "Redesigning and improving the store"? "GaaS"? Hahaha, are you for real with this shit?

It's like saying that people should be impressed with, say, EA if their list of recent accomplishments was "updated the Origin store, Frostbite still works and you can still buy microtransactions".

Like I said before, maybe Valve's VR efforts will bear fruit at some point. I personally doubt it, but I'm no prophet. Either way, until it does it doesn't mean squat.

Austriacus · May 6, 2018

Zhukov said:
Lazy devs? Nah, that's really not the angle I'm going for. If I could collect a healthy paycheck playing wheely-chair jousting in the hallways of my uniquely managed office then I'd totally do that too.

See, what you did there was fill out your list with a bunch of shit that amounts to basic maintenance to make it look longer.

I mean, "game engine updates"? "Controller support"? "Redesigning and improving the store"? "GaaS"? Hahaha, are you for real with this shit?

It's like saying that people should be impressed with, say, EA if their list of recent accomplishments was "updated the Origin store, Frostbite still works and you can still buy microtransactions".

Like I said before, maybe Valve's VR efforts will bear fruit at some point. I personally doubt it, but I'm no prophet. Either way, until it does it doesn't mean squat.

Is it just hard for you to see that Valve has completely focused their product efforts on hardware lately? I mean....yeah they arent making games, but they released products in the form of the steam link, the steam controller, the vibe and the steam machines. And they are actually releasing a game this year for crying out loud.

Zhukov · May 6, 2018

Austriacus said:
Is it just hard for you to see that Valve has completely focused their product efforts on hardware lately? I mean....yeah they arent making games, but they released products in the form of the steam link, the steam controller, the vibe and the steam machines. And they are actually releasing a game this year for crying out loud.

I am aware that they have been working on hardware offerings, yes.

Did any of them actually amount to anything of significance? Sincere question. Because from the perspective of a casual observer they all just seemed to rapidly sputter out.

Echo · May 6, 2018

Zhukov said:
Lazy devs? Nah, that's really not the angle I'm going for. If I could collect a healthy paycheck playing wheely-chair jousting in the hallways of my uniquely managed office then I'd totally do that too.

See, what you did there was fill out your list with a bunch of shit that amounts to basic maintenance to make it look longer.

I mean, "game engine updates"? "Controller support"? "Redesigning and improving the store"? "GaaS"? Hahaha, are you for real with this shit?

It's like saying that people should be impressed with, say, EA if their list of recent accomplishments was "updated the Origin store, Frostbite still works and you can still buy microtransactions".

Like I said before, maybe Valve's VR efforts will bear fruit at some point. I personally doubt it, but I'm no prophet. Either way, until it does it doesn't mean squat.

What a stupid fuckin' comparison. EA is how much bigger than Valve? You can do math right?

And again, "all these things don't count because reasons."

Valve has less employees than most AAA devs and you wanna compare them to EA? The height of disingenuous bullshit. Now I know you trollin'.

As a PC gamer, Valve's contributions to the platform are undeniable and exceptionally important. And yeah, the hardware stuff counts, not that you'll ever agree because you're just here to shit on Valve and can't be arsed to research anything.

Hopping_Mad · May 6, 2018

Gabbo said:
I hope they make Shitty Wizard as the follow up to Valley of the Gods, but it's good they don't feel Gaben breathing down their necks to change content.

I'd like to see them be the guys to bring back Adrian Sheppard

They should get gearbox to make another sheppard game. Gearbox can look at it as a redemption game.

Pixieking · May 6, 2018

Edit: Removed this, because don't want to derail.

Hecht · May 6, 2018

Ok. This thread is about how Valley of the Gods is affected by Campo Santo moving to Valve. We don't need to get into your thoughts on "But Valve doesn't make games!" or "Valve is lazy," or what have you. Either discuss the topic at hand or leave the thread.

HP_Wuvcraft · May 6, 2018

jacks81x said:
Sure, but when you're independent you can focus on making a great game that is profitable without being forced by suits to implement microtransactions and loot boxes all over the place.

You seem to like demonizing "the man" for no real reason other than to do it. Nobody was even talking about microtransactions or loot boxes.

And as Radios brought up, Valve is the king of micro.

I, too, believe that Valve will give Camp Santo a wide berth, but let's not make up scenarios.

Messofanego · May 6, 2018

SpartyCrunch said:
Oh man the thought of Sean and Jake working on a Valve property after In The Valley of Gods ships fills me with so much glee!

But why? They set up Campo Santo to make their own IP, and kept on saying in this interview they didn't join Valve to work on others' IPs.

Pretty much like how the Sony Santa Monica indie games (Journey, Datura, Unfinished Swan, Hohokum, Bound) deal worked, which then became Annapurna Interactive (What Remains Of Edith Finch, Gorogoa, Donut County, Florence, Outer Wilds).

blizzardjesus · May 6, 2018

I worry that after VotG, if they will make anything else or dissaperer into the entity that is the valve machine where people experiment all day with nothing to show for it.

I want to support Campo Santo, but not if Valve profits off of them.

SpartyCrunch · May 6, 2018

Messofanego said:
But why? They set up Campo Santo to make their own IP, and kept on saying in this interview they didn't join Valve to work on others' IPs.

I'm responding to the part of the article where Sean says he'd love to do that sometime.

(IGN)How Campo Santo's move to Valve does, and doesn’t, affect In The Valley of Gods

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