zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,459
Keyboards have had the advantage of 100s of possible inputs unavailable on controllers. But keyboards have the disadvantage of requiring non-gaming gods to look down at their keyboard to press keys that are far away from their hands' normal resting positions.

A patent released a few months ago showing the DS5 might be able to remember gestures and the PS5 might display a TouchPad interface on screen so you can draw these gestures without looking away from the screen. This tells me the DS4 couldn't remember gestures before and we can finally get all of the inputs we couldn't before on a controller and it's still all in a controller sized form factor. Of course, you wouldn't map something crucial to moment to moment gameplay to the touchpad like attack functions, but entering various menus, giving various commands to a squad or an army, etc. is all possible.

Some people may prefer the immediate response you can get from WASD movement or how programmable and customizable keyboards are with macros, or whatever, but you can't deny that proper use of a touchpad brings controllers close to keyboards. Keyboards will always have the advantage of being spammable too as gestures have to be drawn, but there's buttons for the spammy inputs, gestures for all of the minor functions. Give us gyro aiming with flickstick in every game and it's a wrap. The DS5 could dethrone or sit next to M&K as the best ways to play various games.

Edit: Thread turned into a shitshow. I was being facetious about it being better than keyboard but I shouldn't have poked that hornets nest.

This is the best gamepad setup for ARMA 3. Almost every button has multiple inputs and combining different buttons together is how you access various other inputs. I'd rather not have to remember what all of these different combinations of buttons do and I'm certain having them be mapped as gestures would be a much better solution.

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Serious Sam

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,354
Ehh I don't know about that. Seems like all these gimmicks that companies been trying to add on standardized controllers do not work out most of the time. It might be something, or it might be nothing. DualShock 4's TouchPad was hyped and now we just use it as a giant flat button to open a map or inventory.
 

Pulp

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,037
I don't know how the DualSense will turn out but considering how little the touchpad was used on the DS4 I have little hope. Besides, a keyboard simply has so many options. And you could learn wher keys are positioned without having to look down
 

Menx64

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,774
Good luck using a controller to spam ( the very reason many use a keyboard) spells. Gaming controllers are great and best suited for some games, but keyboards are great as well and best suited for other games.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,470
The keyboard could use some competition. It makes for lazy control schemes and it's just kind of bad. Not optimized for gaming obviously, a lot of wasted buttons.
 

Arklite

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,762
Gestures are very subpar compared to actual physical inputs, that all sounds like a giant superfluous gimmick.

Anyways, console PC ports can circumvent a lot of stuff with menus, even if it isn't optimal all of the time.
 

MrCibb

Member
Dec 12, 2018
5,353
UK
I think it would be pretty great and look forward to seeing what devs do with it, but saying it's on par or above a keyboard seems a bit ridiculous. A gesture isn't better than simply pressing a button, and you can only do one gesture at a time.
 
OP
OP
zeuanimals

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,459
I don't know how the DualSense will turn out but considering how little the touchpad was used on the DS4 I have little hope. Besides, a keyboard simply has so many options. And you could learn wher keys are positioned without having to look down

I've personally never got the hang of pressing keys far away from my safe WASD area. I can sometimes hit I to open my inventory without looking down, but I mostly look down.

I'm hoping the reason the touchpad wasn't used was cause it couldn't remember gestures and it didn't have a way for people to pay attention to the screen while making use of the touchpad. Hopefully with advancements Sony's making, devs will be encouraged to use them. Maybe 1st parties could do great, practical things with it that other devs could find a use for.
 

FrakEarth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,521
Liverpool, UK
Doing gestures rather than finding a key or button for the same thing would probably feel a bit like playing Wonderful 101. I'm not saying it won't be good or have good uses, but I do think those uses might be limited. Could be very nice for camera manipulation, RTS, and loads of other things, but I thought that about the DS4 touchpad too.
 

Hasney

One Winged Slayer
The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
20,769
Like a whole keyboard where every key brings up the map screen
 

Glio

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,803
Spain
Imagine having 100 different gestures and performing them accurately and remembering on a touchpad of that size.
 
OP
OP
zeuanimals

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,459
No one is willing to learn more than swiping in a cardinal direction.

Then we could have swipe left 5 times to do X. Or swipe left right left right to do Y. Or if we get a new SOCOM, draw an A to tell your squad to head to alpha, B for bravo, C for Charlie, etc. I hope people don't have to relearn their ABCs, though this may not translate well for other countries.
 

AfropunkNyc

Member
Nov 15, 2017
4,008
Is it going to be s useless sony feature like back touchpad on vita or the touchpad on ps4, is what im thinking. I need sony to push gyro, a feature that progress gaming.
 

giblet

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
179
I realize that, but pressing a key that's on the other edge of the keyboard requires you to look down anyway, wasting time. It's also not likely an input for something that's super necessary for moment to moment gameplay.
I mean, if you can't type?

If you can it's 100% accurate compared to 100 gestures you have to remember and make unique somehow.

I can also press multiple keys at once!
 

Pulp

Member
Nov 4, 2017
3,037
I've personally never got the hang of pressing keys far away from my safe WASD area. I can sometimes hit I to open my inventory without looking down, but I mostly look down.

I'm hoping the reason the touchpad wasn't used was cause it couldn't remember gestures and it didn't have a way for people to pay attention to the screen while making use of the touchpad. Hopefully with advancements Sony's making, devs will be encouraged to use them. Maybe 1st parties could do great, practical things with it that other devs could find a use for.
Keyboards kan be adjusted very much to what you prefer though so there really isn't any competition as things stand now.
That said, I actually like the touchpad for the DS4 when it is used for clever things such as swiping up for the map in TW3. But considering its mostly first party bothering there would have to be a lot more usable than just a DS4 touchpad again I think.
 

Santos

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,247
Can't wait to finally be able to play high level apm Starcraft2 with my DualSense by Sony. Thanks Sony.
 

kadotsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,565
Then we could have swipe left 5 times to do X. Or swipe left right left right to do Y. Or if we get a new SOCOM, draw an A to tell your squad to head to alpha, B for bravo, C for Charlie, etc. I hope people don't have to relearn their ABCs, though this may not translate well for other countries.
Why not use Morse code while we're at it? If you go down that dumb road why not make the controller a single button and use Unary numerals for inputs?
 

sredgrin

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
12,276
This is more like a galactic brain take.

People would do the same thing with the touchpad, about how it could be a mouse analog in certain genres. And it was like everyone else said, mostly a gimmick and a giant menu button in the end.
 

kubev

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,709
California
The versatility of the touchpad doesn't really matter if it's not positioned as a primary input method. Its placement on the controller limits its usefulness. It's in no way comparable to a keyboard in terms of how effectively you can use it for anything important.
 
OP
OP
zeuanimals

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,459
Is someone going to tell OP about smartphones with touchscreens

What? A game that's all gestures? I'm not saying gestures are gonna replace buttons, they're gonna be for all of the random inputs that are unavailable on consoles. Go take a look at the gamepad section of a game on PC and see how many inputs are just disregarded because they simply can't fit. There's no way we would ever fit them on a controller without adding a bunch of buttons, or a single touchpad. The buttons are still go a be used for normal gameplay, like combat and traversal.
 

Kingasta

Avenger
Jan 4, 2018
822
I realize that, but pressing a key that's on the other edge of the keyboard requires you to look down anyway, wasting time. It's also not likely an input for something that's super necessary for moment to moment gameplay.
Any action that requires you to take a thumb off an analog stick will make you an inferior player, best possible controller combination is back buttons and the game supporting gyro aiming with flick stick as you already mentioned.
 

Tbm24

Member
Oct 25, 2017
19,690
This idea just reminds me how unruly I found The Wonderful 101 to be to play. The thought of having to rely on making gestures like that mid game and remembering all of them doesn't work for me. I get other folks that kind of thing clicks better.

Personally looking forward to PS5 games just using the buttons.
 

eonden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,378
The main problem of gestures vs keyboard is that keyboard is a constant position that only requires a simple action (press) while gesture can go from quite simple (such as already in the PS4 controller, with swipe in the four directions) to complex (such as you drawing an A). You can easily see how complex that can become if you played W101 in WiiU and drew the gestures in the controller.

Basically, nah.

I also think there is an inherent problem with having a touchpad in the controller as you already require two hands to easily handle it which means that you either need to drop one hand to do the gesture (making it more annoying and losing a ton of action possibilities) or you are tied to only really simple actions with like 2 fingers of each hand.
 

dep9000

Banned
Mar 31, 2020
5,401
Then we could have swipe left 5 times to do X. Or swipe left right left right to do Y. Or if we get a new SOCOM, draw an A to tell your squad to head to alpha, B for bravo, C for Charlie, etc. I hope people don't have to relearn their ABCs, though this may not translate well for other countries.
Lol. You can't be serious? Swipe left 5 times. Lol. But what if I want to do four actions in quick succession? Swipe left 5 times, right 5 times, up 5 times and down 5 times. Compared to just hitting 4 different keys on your keyboard...
 

Deleted member 419

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,009
I see what you're saying in terms of pure functionality but this argument completely ignores tactile response and ergonomics. You can create a byzantine custom control scheme with 100s of potential inputs already on a Steam controller configuration but that is already significantly less useful than the immediate response and options of a full keyboard, a touchpad won't even be in the same universe.
 

Snake__

Member
Jan 8, 2020
2,450
uhm...hardly anyone even took advantage of the DS4 touchpad being 2 buttons and only used it as 1....
 

Crushed

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,934
if you think about it, if you map all 360 degrees on an analog stick to a different input, then you have even more controls than a keyboard

but then if you think about it again, you could use a mouse to draw infinite two dimensional shapes with the greatest controller of all: the human imagination
 

-Tetsuo-

Unlimited Capacity
Member
Oct 26, 2017
13,395
Then we could have swipe left 5 times to do X. Or swipe left right left right to do Y. Or if we get a new SOCOM, draw an A to tell your squad to head to alpha, B for bravo, C for Charlie, etc. I hope people don't have to relearn their ABCs, though this may not translate well for other countries.

50496626_800301047035682_6638852286548279296_n.gif
 
OP
OP
zeuanimals

zeuanimals

Member
Nov 23, 2017
1,459
The versatility of the touchpad doesn't really matter if it's not positioned as a primary input method. Its placement on the controller limits its usefulness. It's in no way comparable to a keyboard in terms of how effectively you can use it for anything important.

Keyboard's even worse in this respect then since you have to move your entire hand to reach certain keys, and I have to look down sometimes. With a touchpad, it's a move of the thumb.

Why not use Morse code while we're at it? If you go down that dumb road why not make the controller a single button and use Unary numerals for inputs?

So you don't see the functionality of being able to map all of the functions that were never possible on controllers to the touchpad? What's it matter if it's Morse code if they would never be there in the first place? I want more functionality without changing the controller's form factor, a touchpad allows that.