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Has Mario's origin story as a New York plumber ever been canonical?

ScOULaris

ScOULaris

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Most of the discussion surrounding the Mario Bros. movie after its initial trailer reveal last week has revolved around Chris Pratt's questionable casting and ill-fitting voiceover for Mario in the film. While I also agree that he's seriously miscast in the role, there was one other thing that jumped out at me when reading and listening to discourse following the reveal trailer: many people seemed surprised by the fact that Mario was unfamiliar with Mushroom Kingdom in the trailer.

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Even my wife, who has heard me talk about all things videogames and Nintendo for decades now, said that she had no idea about Mario's origins as a New York plumber before being sucked into the Mushroom Kingdom back in the original Super Mario Bros. I'm not that surprised to hear younger people claim ignorance of Mario's origin story since Nintendo has rarely referenced it at all in the last 20+ years of game releases, but I'm seeing plenty of old podcasters and other gaming pundits act surprised by Mario's confusion as he enters the Mushroom Kingdom in the trailer.

But now that I'm looking into it, I'm wondering if I've been wrongly assuming the canonical status of Mario's origins all along. I always thought that Mario and Luigi's NY plumber origin story was mentioned either in early game manuals or other official Nintendo materials back in the 80's, but now I'm having a hard time finding evidence of that. Did this actually originate in the American TV shows? Here's the game description from the original NES manual, and there's no mention of Mario being a plumber from New York like I falsely remembered up to this point:

supermariobrosnespage02-ead0e.jpg
 
entremet

entremet

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Mario didn't originate in Super Mario Brothers. He originated in Donkey Kong. Mario Brothers then solidified this. However, documentation is bad because of the period. We're talking about arcades here, not sprawling adventure games.
 
RadzPrower

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It's been an assumed thing due to Donkey Kong, Mario Bros, and Wrecking Crew.

That said, Super Mario Odyssey has likely retconned even those games into occurring in the Mushroom Kingdom with the introduction of New Donk City.
 
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ScOULaris

ScOULaris

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entremet said:
Mario didn't originate in Super Mario Brothers. He originated in Donkey Kong.
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Sure, but I thought that his origin story as a NY plumber came with the original SMB.

In most Donkey Kong supplemental materials, Mario was described as a carpenter. I feel like he hadn't yet been codified into a real character until SMB1. Even with the original Mario Bros. arcade game he and Luigi didn't really have any backstory or context to speak of, as far as I know.
 
Dyle

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No the city of New York was destroyed in the Great Ape War

All the events of the Mario universe are a dream of a New York refugee imagining what the world would have been like if the gorillas were only a minor construction site nuisance
 
AvianAviator

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I think the idea that he's from New York is a warping way of justifying his transition from the player character in Donkey Kong to having his own franchise.

The original DK game where "Mario" has to dodge barrels seems to take place in a city, where the tower is a bunch of skyscraper steel beams. This is supported by New Donk City in Odyssey, an actual New York-like city run by Pauline, the heroine from Donkey Kong.

Saying he's from NYC is the "translation" that the screenwriters for the Super Mario Brothers movie went for. Mario was always sort of an outsider from the city.
 
Mushlikeahusky

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When people complain about Chris Pratt I keep saying Mario is from New York which is what keeps popping up in my mind not sure if canon or not
 
entremet

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ScOULaris said:
Sure, but I thought that his origin story as a NY plumber came with the original SMB.

In most Donkey Kong supplemental materials, Mario was referred to as a carpenter. I feel like he hadn't yet been codified into a real character until SMB1. Even with the original Mario Bros. arcade game he and Luigi didn't really have any backstory or context to speak of, as far as I know.
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Nope.

The New York stuff is from Donkey Kong, Mario Brothers, and Wrecking Crew.

The Super Mario Super Show then played off that angle. Also, the Super Mario Super Show was approved by Nintendo.

The thing with lore gets tricky since Nintendo hasn't been consistent with Mario lore. It's been more organic.
 
mute

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I had this exact same discussion a week or so ago and I think the Super Show has just burned into my memory that he is from Brooklyn.
 
pbayne

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making him a fish out of water makes more sense for a movie

but yeah the cartoon+the og movie (love you bob hoskins) make me think he is a Brooklyn plumber originally
 
OtakuCoder

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When I rule the world, every gaming-related website will have to show the message "MARIO HAS NO CANON AND DOESN'T NEED ONE" in its heading.
 
AgeEighty

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RadzPrower said:
It's been an assumed thing due to Donkey Kong, Mario Bros, and Wrecking Crew.

That said, Super Mario Odyssey has likely retconned even those games into occurring in the Mushroom Kingdom with the introduction of New Donk City.
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New Donk City isn't in the Mushroom Kingdom, which is a different, discrete area in Odyssey.

OtakuCoder said:
When I rule the world, every gaming-related website will have to show the message "MARIO HAS NO CANON AND DOESN'T NEED ONE" in its heading.
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Yeah, I mean, I honestly don't see why this is garnering so much discussion. How can it be so crucial to people's understanding of Mario whether he came from Brooklyn or elsewhere? Why does this matter to people?
 
entremet

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AgeEighty said:
New Donk City isn't in the Mushroom Kingdom, which is a different, discrete area in Odyssey.



Yeah, I mean, I honestly don't see why this is garnering so much discussion. How can it be so crucial to people's understanding of Mario whether he came from Brooklyn or elsewhere? Why does this matter to people?
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It's evolving like all "lore". Mario is over 40 years old at this point as a character.

I think New Donk will replace "New York" as Mario's hometown in the new movie.

Rooie said:
That doesn't mean anything. The Archie Sonic comics were approved by Sega, but that doesn't mean Titan Tails is "canon."
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I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying the Super Show defined the lore. It created a perception for millions from there. Mario being from NYC, was already established!

The Mario origins were super inside baseball details before that.

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After the success with Donkey Kong, Miyamoto would make a sequel in which Donkey Kong's son would climb vines to rescue his old dad from the mean, little man who had played the starring role in the predecessor. The game, called Donkey Kong Junior, was released in 1982 and was followed by Donkey Kong 3 one year later.

Miyamoto had called the carpenter Jumpman, but the people at NOA had renamed him after the owner of the warehouse they had rented. The landlord's name was Mario Segali and thus the character was called Mario. Futhermore, someone had mentioned that he looked more like a plumber than a carpenter, so Miyamoto decided to make a new game starring Mario in the sewers of New York.

Since Miyamoto wanted the game to enable two players to battle each other, he created a new brother for Mario who he called Luigi. The objective was to be the first one to collect five golden coins. This was done by knocking down creeping critters and angry crabs. Mario Bros was released in 1983 and took the arcades by storm, just like the Donkey Kong games had done before it.
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giapel

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Mario is unfamiliar with the mushroom kingdom and is voiced by Pratt. Then later in movie he gets a mushroom and boom… "it's a me, Mario" in Martinet's voice. Order is restored, everybody's happy.
 
AgeEighty

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entremet said:
It's evolving like all "lore". Mario is over 40 years old at this point as a character.

I think New Donk will replace "New York" as Mario's hometown in the new movie.
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Very possibly. Odyssey does depict the events of Donkey Kong as part of the history of NDC. It gives an opening for the participation of DK in the film, who seems a bit like a fish out of water otherwise. And the fact that it lies outside the Mushroom Kingdom lends more to this (although still seems funny that they're on the same planet).
 
entremet

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AgeEighty said:
Very possibly. Odyssey does depict the events of Donkey Kong as part of the history of NDC. It gives an opening for the participation of DK in the film, who seems a bit like a fish out of water otherwise. And the fact that it lies outside the Mushroom Kingdom lends more to this (although still seems funny that they're on the same planet).
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You could also be more fantastical with a New Donk City as well.

Also, the audience isn't dumb, they will get that New Donk is an NYC analog.
 
Robin64

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Only ever seen Mario's origin of New York actually mentioned in one game, and that one wasn't developed by Nintendo.

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Fefld6-WYAEsloA
 
Ruisu

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I've always disliked the "Mario is a New York plumber" origin. It just seems like a unecessary detail to the character typical of early 90's localization and comic adaptations.
Mario being from the same world as everyone else is just a lot more interesting since Mario's world is full of all kinds of different creatures and people, especially after Odyssey.
 
BasilZero

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entremet said:
Nope.

The New York stuff is from Donkey Kong, Mario Brothers, and Wrecking Crew.

The Super Mario Super Show then played off that angle. Also, the Super Mario Super Show was approved by Nintendo.

The thing with lore gets tricky since Nintendo hasn't been consistent with Mario lore. It's been more organic.
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You mean New Donk City 🤡
 
davepoobond

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He was a doctor
Then he retired from medical profession to become a plumber
On his first job he went into a pipe to the mushroom kingdom

He's more like one of those guys who has a ton of jobs on his resume and you don't really know what he is
 
NeonZ

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ScOULaris said:
Did any official materials for those games ever state that they took place in NYC or that Mario was from there?
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Donkey Kong 94 starts remaking the initial levels of the original DK, the location then gets just called "Big City".

Throughout the game, Mario chases Donkey Kong through various locations, and they end up landing on the Mushroom Kingdom by the time of the final battle. There's no text, but Mario seems surprised when Pauline throws a Mushroom at him, which would point to him not knowing it.

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Zyrokai

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I think the movie is going to throw us for a loop. I don't think Mario is coming from the "real world". I don't think Nintendo wants to mention real life places in the Mario universe. It'll be a different world, but it'll be like the world of Wrecking Crew or something. Not New York City.
 
Madao

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Miyamoto is just reaping what he sowed all these decades by not caring about the lore at all.

just a massive ball of confusion.

entremet said:
It's evolving like all "lore". Mario is over 40 years old at this point as a character.

I think New Donk will replace "New York" as Mario's hometown in the new movie.



I think you misunderstood me. I wasn't saying the Super Show defined the lore. It created a perception for millions from there. Mario being from NYC, was already established!

The Mario origins were super inside baseball details before that.

www.nsidr.com

Profile: Shigeru Miyamoto

Profile: Shigeru Miyamoto Chronicles of a Visionary Shigeru Miyamoto is generally regarded as one of the greatest game designers of all time. His works are among the most widely popular and influential in the industry of interactive entertainment, including such acknowledged masterpieces as...
www.nsidr.com www.nsidr.com
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crazy how different things would have been if the landlord was named differently.
"Super John Brothers" has a very different ring to it.
 
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NotLiquid

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Mario in almost every adaptational material has been treated as a non-native to the Mushroom Kingdom. The original anime was an isekai.

The Brooklyn connection on the other hand is debatable. Nintendo will likely never associate Mario with any real world location, but Mario Odyssey and the introduction of Metro Kingdom / New Donk City has given them a big out in saying he's at least New York-adjacent. He'd likely be treated as hailing from the city that is fictional but still stylistically derivative of Brooklyn.

The original Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. further point to Mario's game origin being rooted in a different location from Mushroom Kingdom proper where he was a blue collar worker.
 
FrostweaveBandage

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Nightfall said:
His origin story could have been a great Seinfeld episode.
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Jerry: "I fell in the pipe!"
George: "You ... fell into the pipe?"
Jerry, motioning hand downward: "Into the pipe."'
*audience laughs*
*Kramer busts in at 100mph, audience cheers*
Kramer: "Jerry, that's a hell of a story. You could make a movie about that."
Elaine, clearly unimpressed and eating popcorn on the couch: "Eh, no one would watch a movie about that."
*audience applauds*
 
Zyrokai

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Madao said:
Miyamoto is just reaping what he sowed all these decades by not caring about the lore at all.

just a massive ball of confusion.
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I truly think they still don't care, and Mario doesn't need it. The movie (or future movies if they make more) will probably always be their own thing and I don't think the games will mention them at all. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if another Mario game comes out that completely changes everything and ignores everything established in Odyssey.

And that's fine because the games are meant to be and always have been whimsical and nonsensical fun.
 
Digital Dinosaur

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It's pretty clear someone at Nintendo decided New Donk City was the perfect opportunity to work the "was a regular plumber" backstory into everything Mario taking place on a fictional planet that has many strange kingdoms. And has no connection to real life or the planet Earth.

I would honestly be a little surprised if the movie doesn't have a flashback to New Donk City to explain where Mario came from. Mario lore is not consistent, but Nintendo tends to keep it aligned with successive "waves" of Mario games, merch, and marketing.

All that said, I actually greatly prefer the idea of Mario being a plumber from NY in real life. The Alice in Wonderland analogy has always been a lot of fun. And the Super Show / SMB The Movie aesthetic for the Mario brothers always has, and always will, completely fucking rule.
 
Camjo-Z

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I feel like the canon became pretty clear after Odyssey - Mario is technically native to the Mushroom Kingdom as seen by the ending of the Yoshi's Island games where he and Luigi get dropped off on the doorstep of a mushroom-shaped house, but at some point his family moved to New Donk City where he became a plumber and fought Cranky Kong and all that jazz. I assume the film will finally fill in the details on how/why he returned to his homeland.
 
Dyle

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The main reason we know that Mario canonically can't be from New York is the fact that he only speaks in 3 or 4 word sentences yet he has never been recorded saying "Hey, I'm Walkin' Here!" or perhaps a more Mario appropriate variation such as "Hey, I'm Jumpin' Here!"
 
Zyrokai

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NotLiquid said:
Mario in almost every adaptational material has been treated as a non-native to the Mushroom Kingdom. The original anime was an isekai.

The Brooklyn connection on the other hand is debatable. Nintendo will likely never associate Mario with any real world location, but Mario Odyssey and the introduction of Metro Kingdom / New Donk City has given them a big out in saying he's at least New York-adjacent. He'd likely be treated as hailing from the city that is fictional but still stylistically derivative of Brooklyn.

The original Donkey Kong and Mario Bros. further point to Mario's game origin being rooted in a different location from Mushroom Kingdom proper where he was a blue collar worker.
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The problem with him being from "New Donk City" is that he clearly isn't. He's a cartoonish human guy among fully proportional normal humans.
 
RadzPrower

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AgeEighty said:
New Donk City isn't in the Mushroom Kingdom, which is a different, discrete area in Odyssey.
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I was using Mushroom Kingdom in that context to describe the world of Mario since there's not (as far as I am aware) an actual name for Mario's world. You're right that even as far back as SMB3 there were clearly other "kingdoms" within Mario's world.
 

Phediuk

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Oct 27, 2017
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Japanese materials stop mentioning the Brooklyn stuff after Super Mario Bros. 1, but the notion that he's from "our world" still hung on to some extent there afterward (see the 1986 anime movie for instance.)

The games did not explicitly retcon Mario's origins until Yoshi's Island, though.
 
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