Lorne Lanning says launching on PS Plus was “devastating” for Soulstorm sales
Oddworld creator Lorne Lanning has said that launching on PS Plus was "devastating" for the sales of Oddworld: Soulstor…
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[Gamesindustry.biz] Lorne Lanning says launching on PS Plus was “devastating” for Oddworld: Soulstorm sales
- Thread starter dex3108
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Yes, more than they would have made by selling it on PS actually. His issue is how it affected the sales of the game on other platforms.
Yes but they planned for it to be when there were less PS5's available so the estimated sales were lower. However with the delay the hit the peak and was more popular then expected. I am guessing they had negotiated a higher flat rate maybe and it ended up biting them. Other PS+ games have definitely been paid by download.
From the sound of it the game wouldn't have finished at all without Sony helping. Basically they put it on PS Plus, and Sony helps them finish development.
Maybe I read that wrong though.
I think he was lamenting about potential sale revenue lost. Game was downloaded over 4 million times when it was on PS Plus.
But let's be fair, it would have never gotten that high in terms of sales if it wasn't free. So I really don't know what he was expecting lol
That's not how it works.
The game wouldn't have sold anywhere near that amount if it released outside of PS+.
I dont really see how it would've would 4 million if it wasn't on plus. Could they have made a better deal? Def probally made something that wasn't lump sum to account for the magintudes in increase of of downloads. But honestly im sure a lot downloaded but didnt even play it Much.
It probably doesn't help that the game was middling at best (from what I played).
These sorts of deals seem to work out well when they generate good word of mouth - Rocket League is the ultimate example of this. Being on PS+ set that game on a track to where it is today. If you don't generate word of mouth that translates into sales outside of the subscription service, then you're just giving your game away to people who might otherwise have paid for it.
These sorts of deals seem to work out well when they generate good word of mouth - Rocket League is the ultimate example of this. Being on PS+ set that game on a track to where it is today. If you don't generate word of mouth that translates into sales outside of the subscription service, then you're just giving your game away to people who might otherwise have paid for it.
TLDR; devastating in the sense that the game was delayed from January to April, hence more PS5s were in consumer hands thus the calculus changed, even though it covered their initial sales projections. Not sure equating the 4M downloads to potential sales is very useful. I'm one of those and bailed after an hour, would never have purchased it either way.
I downloaded it and didn't start it up yet, maybe sometime this year but realistically maybe never. So you can deduct one from the number of potential sales.
Edit: by downloaded I mean I hit "Add to library" like I do every months for PS+ games I might play at some point (but usually don't)
His issue seems more that the three month delay for the game caused millions more PS5s to enter the market, and turn what was once a good deal into a bad one because they didn't make the deal assuming so many people would be able to redeem. Which isn't necessarily Sony's fault, but it is fair to assume the deal would have been different if the larger PS5 install base was considered
That's the trade off though. You're sacrificing sales for money upfront. It can be a great boon for some developers or a bad tradeoff. If you could predict the answer you'd be the most valuable person in the industry.
I wasn't expecting publishers/developers to get paid the same regardless of numbers, for some reason.
This is the big thing right? Do you take the risk and put your game on sub service, get a prearranged payout, and then watch as it blows up? Would it have blown up if it wasn't on the sub in the first place? There must be some sort of extra pay out agreements if the game does exceedingly well. At least I hope.
It might be worth replacing the link in the OP with this one, which gives a lot more context as to why Lanning is annoyed.
One and done. Added it to my library and most likely will never try it out due to how poorly it was received.
The idea is since folks knew it was going to PS Plus, they didn't pay full price. They make money of being on Plus but it's only a fraction of what you get when you sell the game full price. Now what would have made more money? I doubt the game would have really done much better otherwise but it's always tough to say cause folks see free elsewhere and they might be hesitant
I'd imagine that the game being exclusive to the Epic Games Store on PC probably didn't do the game many favours either. Felt like after accepting both the Sony and Epic moneyhats, this would have headed straight to Game Pass when the Xbox versions were launched, but I'm guessing the math isn't adding up at this point in time.
He didn't give specifics unless there is more in the podcast that the article doesn't list. He says it was downloaded 4M times, so we'd need to know how much they got paid per each download.
He admits they would've sold 100k exclusively on PS5 without plus, so it sounds like he wishes it has been multiplatform from the start.
Honestly I really wish someone would give us some hard data on $$ made from games on plus, gold, game pass and eventually plus premium, etc.
It's wild that, and idk what data he has obviously, that he thinks it would've been more profitable to sell much less, like 1/4th I imagine, instead of it being free for 4M ppl.
These days, I redeem 98% of plus games without the intention of even playing them tbh
I know that's just me, but I doubt most would have bought the game otherwise. If anything, good word of mouth would have helped to grow sales outside of plus
I know that's just me, but I doubt most would have bought the game otherwise. If anything, good word of mouth would have helped to grow sales outside of plus
Looking at the trophy completion rates, it's pretty clear that there were far more "it's free and I'm curious" downloads than many lost sales, Lorne.
Either that, or you'd have a ton of dissatisfied customers on your hands.
Never mind Lorne's confusing personal beliefs souring the whole thing a bit for some audiences.
Either that, or you'd have a ton of dissatisfied customers on your hands.
Never mind Lorne's confusing personal beliefs souring the whole thing a bit for some audiences.
There was basically zero hype for this game, so I doubt it would've sold well even if it wasn't on PS+
Yeah I don't see this game ever reaching 4M in normal sales and I'm sure the overall word of mouth and reviews did not help the game after it left PS+ when it came to sales. Seemed like a game that would have a generally short shelf life off the bat.
So while they say that PS+ was devastating for them, they put themselves up on top of unrealistic expectations about direct sales.
Being EGS exclusive as well (which it still is), also probably hurt it a lot when it came to PC sales.
In the end, they should not be blaming PS+. Blaming PS+ for this is ridiculous.
Not sure how it would have affected sales on other platforms, XSX specifically. How many owned both systems that early in the gen who wanted to buy on Xbox but got it through PS+ instead? That's a vanishingly tiny market.
I don´t know but I have a feeling that what was devastating for Soulstorm is the fact that the game was bad and on top of that released bugged as hell.
If I´m not wrong the game basically came to 1.0 with the Enhanced update...released on December/21, 8 months after it´s release.
If I´m not wrong the game basically came to 1.0 with the Enhanced update...released on December/21, 8 months after it´s release.
I feel like the headline is far more dramatic and suggestive than what the words are actually saying here.
It reads to me like Lanning isn't saying that launching on PS+ was a disaster for them in itself, it's that they cut a specific deal based on 'there'll only be x amount of PS5s in the wild by our release date so this is a good reimbursment for x amount of sales' and then the release date slipped and, by the time it ended up hitting PS+, it was redeemed by a lot more people than they initially budgeted for. He thinks it was devestating how little they got for how many times it was downloaded. I think?
"The most we could sell is less than the money we're getting... we might sell 50,000 units at launch, maybe 100,000 units. It was pretty small numbers because there wasn't going to be a lot of PS5s."
(He) felt as though the company "did a pretty good deal" in the end.
"Soulstorm was initially slated to launch in January 2021, but ended up moving back to April. The delay meant that Soulstorm quickly became the most downloaded game on PS5.
"Because [Soulstorm] slipped to April, we had the highest downloaded game on PS5 and it was, I think, approaching... close to four million units or something like that for free because they were all subscriptions. So for us, it was devastating.""
It reads to me like Lanning isn't saying that launching on PS+ was a disaster for them in itself, it's that they cut a specific deal based on 'there'll only be x amount of PS5s in the wild by our release date so this is a good reimbursment for x amount of sales' and then the release date slipped and, by the time it ended up hitting PS+, it was redeemed by a lot more people than they initially budgeted for. He thinks it was devestating how little they got for how many times it was downloaded. I think?
"The most we could sell is less than the money we're getting... we might sell 50,000 units at launch, maybe 100,000 units. It was pretty small numbers because there wasn't going to be a lot of PS5s."
(He) felt as though the company "did a pretty good deal" in the end.
"Soulstorm was initially slated to launch in January 2021, but ended up moving back to April. The delay meant that Soulstorm quickly became the most downloaded game on PS5.
"Because [Soulstorm] slipped to April, we had the highest downloaded game on PS5 and it was, I think, approaching... close to four million units or something like that for free because they were all subscriptions. So for us, it was devastating.""
This dude.
People were tired of just seeing this game show up on every press event....imagine having to actually play something when you are already tired of seeing it ? People didnt wanna play the game, had nothing to do with the sub service it was on.
If you think the amount of people that redeemed the game and added to the list is anywhere close to the one, actually playing it or even being interested enough to purchase it....i dont know what to tell ya Lorne.
People were tired of just seeing this game show up on every press event....imagine having to actually play something when you are already tired of seeing it ? People didnt wanna play the game, had nothing to do with the sub service it was on.
If you think the amount of people that redeemed the game and added to the list is anywhere close to the one, actually playing it or even being interested enough to purchase it....i dont know what to tell ya Lorne.
It's niche. Without PS+ far fewer people would have played it and not many more would have bought it.
I think Lorne's politics (which I feel seep into the game's rather unwise character designs and narrative) might have turned off some people too.
I think Lorne's politics (which I feel seep into the game's rather unwise character designs and narrative) might have turned off some people too.
I consider myself a huge Oddworld stan but even I have to admit that the game wasn't good at all. I think word of mouth was pretty bad as well.
The game barely felt finished even after the delay and the PS5 is still supply constrained to this day so I don't think there was a crazy influx of consoles that significantly shifted any numbers between the original release date and April.
Releasing a bad game in January on PS+ wouldn't have gotten them great sales afterwards either.
Not really sure I get his sentiment. Surely he doesn't think that they would have gotten anything close to 4m sales without PS+?
The number of people who were willing to buy the game without PS+ would have still been pretty small.
/edit: Reading the second article makes this a little clearer but again, I don't think the number of consoles that have entered the market between the original release and April is what killed their post-PS+ sales... It was a bad game with bad reviews and bad word of mouth and people would be hesitant to buy something like that, especially with the franchise being very niche anyways.
The PS+ deal covered the sales of people who love the franchise and some people who would be on the fence who would have ended up buying (and regretting thait purchase) the game.
Any sales beyond that are wishful thinking by Lorne.
Yes, with a few more consoles they might have gotten a slightly better deal but what can you do besides complain on the internet? I'm sure Sony is happy that his comments are leading to bad headlines about PS+ and games that get PS+ deals, especially shortly after they've expanded the service in a big way...
The game barely felt finished even after the delay and the PS5 is still supply constrained to this day so I don't think there was a crazy influx of consoles that significantly shifted any numbers between the original release date and April.
Releasing a bad game in January on PS+ wouldn't have gotten them great sales afterwards either.
Not really sure I get his sentiment. Surely he doesn't think that they would have gotten anything close to 4m sales without PS+?
The number of people who were willing to buy the game without PS+ would have still been pretty small.
/edit: Reading the second article makes this a little clearer but again, I don't think the number of consoles that have entered the market between the original release and April is what killed their post-PS+ sales... It was a bad game with bad reviews and bad word of mouth and people would be hesitant to buy something like that, especially with the franchise being very niche anyways.
The PS+ deal covered the sales of people who love the franchise and some people who would be on the fence who would have ended up buying (and regretting thait purchase) the game.
Any sales beyond that are wishful thinking by Lorne.
Yes, with a few more consoles they might have gotten a slightly better deal but what can you do besides complain on the internet? I'm sure Sony is happy that his comments are leading to bad headlines about PS+ and games that get PS+ deals, especially shortly after they've expanded the service in a big way...
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Game looked like a dud from the first trailer. This equating of downloads to potential sales is just wrong. I'm a download, never would have bought. Hardly played the download.
