May 26, 2023
3,483
Forbidden Lands
I wish there was a way of just bringing everyone together just to enjoy gaming and the amazing collection of titles we have access to in 2024

Ignoring worker abuse doesn't make it go away, and asking people to ignore it if they feel strongly about it is pretty awful. Ignoring gamergaters despite the fact that their actions often bleed into the real world, with in-person threats, feels pretty cowardly.

Panem et circenses was a criticism, not a suggestion.
 

AIan

Member
Oct 20, 2019
5,034
The bar for wokeness is so low that a black woman appearing at all let alone as playable character is considered "woke"
From the same people that say they don't want LGBTQ+ relationships in the games they play because "they want an escape from reality". It's literally racism and homophobia.
 

Malakym

One Winged Slayer
Member
Nov 17, 2019
378
Right but this forum represents a very small fraction of the gaming community, and is the exception to most gaming forums in terms of issues people care about.

I personally am not going to make assumptions about the workplace ethics of a developer based on the content of their game. Blizzard tried to make Overwatch seem inclusive and they still had a pretty big problem with shit heads.

I mean I figure the difference between a shitty Corp hiding behind token inclusion and another one openly embracing their shittiness should be obvious, but honestly that's not even my main point. I'm not saying everyone everywhere should already know this, I'm saying that people here have that info available and choose to ignore it. Expecting anyone outside of certain outlets to even acknowledge this stuff, let alone be reasonable humans about it, kinda feels like a losing battle sometimes.
 
May 26, 2023
3,483
Forbidden Lands
Right but this forum represents a very small fraction of the gaming community, and is the exception to most gaming forums in terms of issues people care about.

I only heard about this because someone on r/Fighters tried to make a meme about how "gamers" beat down Sweet Baby.

That poster was downvoted into oblivion and his single supporter wailed about Reddit mods removing all of their silent majority upvotes to make them look bad.

I don't know if you've got the right read on this situation at all. I don't suddenly think the majority of Gamers are suddenly morally righteous and for Trans Rights, but I think the majority of people who play games recognize an actual witch hunt when it's happening.
 

Twohearts

Banned
Feb 8, 2024
588
Straya
From the same people that say they don't want LGBTQ+ relationships in the games they play because "they want an escape from reality". It's literally racism and homophobia.

If gay people are scary enough they need to escape from them, they either need to go thtough a gender/sexuality crisis already or just suck it up and realise not every story is for them. Straight people statistically do a lot more bad things and I'd like to forget they exist sometimes, but i don't go on harassment campaigns every time a straght couple show up in something
 

Kasumin

Member
Nov 19, 2017
2,035
Sweet Baby becoming the new boogeyman of "making games woke" is so funny to me.

Playing as a black deaf girl for one side mission in Spider-Man 2 really broke a lot of people
It really bothers me that that part made some people so angry.

I was watching someone stream it and that section was pretty cool. No wonder these chuds see empathy as a weakness, smh.
 

isopeltheblue

Member
Feb 16, 2024
122
Expecting anyone outside of certain outlets to even acknowledge this stuff, let alone be reasonable humans about it, kinda feels like a losing battle sometimes.
I get that, but I am a bit surprised it hasn't gotten more attention, maybe naively so.

I only heard about this because someone on r/Fighters tried to make a meme about how "gamers" beat down Sweet Baby.

That poster was downvoted into oblivion and his single supporter wailed about Reddit mods removing all of their silent majority upvotes to make them look bad.

I don't know if you've got the right read on this situation at all. I don't suddenly think the majority of Gamers are suddenly morally righteous and for Trans Rights, but I think the majority of people who play games recognize an actual witch hunt when it's happening.
I don't know if you've got the right read on my post because I wasn't talking about the Sweet Baby thing. I was specifically talking about the issues with Stellar Blade.
 
May 26, 2023
3,483
Forbidden Lands
I don't know if you've got the right read on my post because I wasn't talking about the Sweet Baby thing. I was specifically talking about the issues with Stellar Blade.

theyrethesamepicture dot jpg

Stellar Blade is just another facet to the same chud culture war. Yes, it's less talked about, but I guarantee you anyone can see a single still image from the game and immediately figure out why the alt-right is pushing it as anti-woke gaming.

Just like it took maybe 5 words in any article to figure out why Sweet Baby was targeted.

This entire thing is pervasive and continuous, and ResetEra is not some minor fraction of the playerbase when it comes to the opinions held here.
 

SpockVulcan

Banned
Dec 15, 2023
28
the other is harrassing people and sending them death threats to the point they're being visited in person by these chuds.

Ok fine, i did not know that, but i'm willing to learn. Can you point me to some links/sources where i can read more about the nefarious activities that 'gamergaters' and specifically the person behind this steam curator are doing ? Like i said, i would like to learn more.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,461

PlanetSmasher

The Abominable Showman
Member
Oct 25, 2017
119,997
Ok fine, i did not know that, but i'm willing to learn. Can you point me to some links/sources where i can read more about the nefarious activities that 'gamergaters' and specifically the person behind this steam curator are doing ? Like i said, i would like to learn more.

I'll speak to this. During GamerGate, people found out my personal phone number and called me at all hours of the day, and randomly joined my PSN parties to yammer at me about how evil feminists are, even though I had left the games journalism industry nearly half a decade before. Simply because I used to know, and once recorded a podcast with, one of the women they decided they hated as a mass group.
 

SpockVulcan

Banned
Dec 15, 2023
28
User banned (permanent): troll account
Bluntly, this post suggests to me that you have very little appreciation of reality. That is to say, I believe this is a pretty bad post, but I want you to appreciate that the reason that I think it's bad is because it's full of generic claims with little substance that is leveraging the lack of understanding of the actual situation so that you can just fabricate a situation whole cloth that allows you to present yourself as intellectually superior to all parties. You're not assessing the situation and drawing a conclusion from it because doing that would require you to make at least some effort to understand the situation.

You yourself point out how there's no actual evidence of Sweet Baby Inc causing any of the issues in this game, and while you speak about the "logical assumption", it doesn't occur to you to consider that if there's no evidence of those issues, maybe those aren't the issues leading to them being targeted. That is to say, that while their effects on the games aren't clearly known, their mission statement of assisting in adding diversity to games is, and so makes them a target to people acting specifically against diversity. You only spent a single sentence in this giant post grazing by the thing that Sweet Baby Inc is entirely about.

You tell us that the free market will sort this out and that this isn't against the Steam rules, but don't take a moment to consider that Steam already has known issues that laissez-faire capitalism has done nothing to solve. Steam's community has historically been recognized for taking a weak stance against things like Nazism, which is enabled specifically because it's based in America, where the government is unable to prosecute hate speech due to it repeatedly being considered a valid form of speech, and thus Valve is under no pressure to remove it in order to keep their business operational. You say that people complaining won't do much, but how is the market doing anything more here aside from telling people who oppose diversity that their money is worth as much as anyone else's and they should also be catered to?

I'm not even going to bother repeating myself on your don't feed the trolls-style argument because you've provided nothing to make that any more substantial than the concerns raised before.

How do i substantiate a "dont feed the trolls" argument ? If, like you suggest, the trolls are making hate speech on the internet, and like you also suggest, they are not being censored, then isn't the only alternative to ignore them ? to not give them clicks/views/replies ?

The video games "market", which you say is not doing enough, is in fact already taking steps such as hiring consultants like SBI to help make games more diverse. Most of these games are selling well and are mostly well received by critics and audiences if those games are made well, and if they are not that is due to other, deeper, core issues with those games (i already gave examples of Spider-Man and Suicide Squad in my posts). What more can the industry do apart from "not feeding the trolls" ?

Trolls, bigots, racists, psychos, etc etc will exist for as long as the internet is around, so what can you, as a common consumer do about them besides ignore them ? If the industry is catering to you and making games to your liking (and making the trolls angry in the process) then why even bother talking about them ?

Also in your word salad of a post, you have committed the same sin which you accuse me of committing. You have not given substantial arguments or examples to support your stance, or provided any sources for me to learn more. But that's ok, don't bother repeating yourself.
 
Last edited:

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,461
How do i substantiate a "dont feed the trolls" argument ? If, like you suggest, the trolls are making hate speech on the internet, and like you also suggest, they are not being censored, then isn't the only alternative to ignore them ? to not give them clicks/views/replies ?
This was discussed above. The problem is that you're calling people "trolls" and addressing a solution as if they're just trying to get attention, but you're what you're saying they're doing is disseminating hate speech. Does hate speech exist purely to get attention? Do you believe that things like racism, homophobia, and transphobia exist only because people want to be noticed?

I shouldn't need to give you an example because it's self-evident if think about it for two seconds. A Hitler speech would be hate speech. Would it be "trolling" by your measure? Are those two things equivalent? Is it also something that is purely a ploy for attention and is resolved by not acknowledging it?

Ignorance is one thing, but why do you keep referring to bigotry and trolling as if they're both the same thing and need to be resolved the same way? Where did you even get that idea?

The video games "market", which you say is not doing enough, is in fact already taking steps such as hiring consultants like SBI to help make games more diverse. Most of these games are selling well and are mostly well received by critics and audiences if those games are made well, and if they are not that is due to other, deeper, core issues with those games (i already gave examples of Spider-Man and Suicide Squad in my posts). What more can the industry do apart from "not feeding the trolls" ?
Sure, there are people in the industry who are focused on promoting diversity, and that's great. But you didn't say that there were people in the market who were working to promote diversity. You said "the free market will take its course" to dismiss people discussing it. That there are people who are promoting diversity and that it sells doesn't change the fact that Valve has been allowing hate groups to continue unchecked on Steam due in part because the free market is a fundamentally amoral force.

At the same time you're saying "what more can the industry do" you're dismissing the industry actually doing anything other than trying the make the best selling products and hoping that works out somehow. Is this the best course of action or is it the only option available? Which is it? Those are also two different statements.
 
Last edited:

isopeltheblue

Member
Feb 16, 2024
122
theyrethesamepicture dot jpg

Stellar Blade is just another facet to the same chud culture war. Yes, it's less talked about, but I guarantee you anyone can see a single still image from the game and immediately figure out why the alt-right is pushing it as anti-woke gaming.

Just like it took maybe 5 words in any article to figure out why Sweet Baby was targeted.

This entire thing is pervasive and continuous, and ResetEra is not some minor fraction of the playerbase when it comes to the opinions held here.
It's really funny that you're trying to be clever with the "dot jpg" thing because you're still trying to make an argument against something that I'm definitely not implying. You jumped into the conversation, seemingly without going back to understand the context, so nothing you've just said has anything to do with what I've said. It's just a misunderstanding.
 

JakeNoseIt

Catch My Drift
Verified
Oct 27, 2017
4,562
Kinda sucks when I see people stating, "Well, these people are going to make targets out of your friends and peers, but that's the internet! What can you do?" as some kind of enlightened opinion. If you think the best strategy is to be apathetic and quietly permissive, I'm not entirely sure why one with that stance thinks it needs to be advertised.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,461
So did Valve ban the hate group?
Doesn't seem like it. Their statement today:

"Well my friends, 3 days ago I got a message from Steam support that this group was recieving too many reports/flags and it could result into the group and curator getting deleted and since that day I've been talking to the Steam support and making it sure that we were following Steam's ToS, so I had to delete every single discussion thread with the help of the other mods and I couldn't thank them enough for the help.

Since now we are in good terms with Steam I decided to lock new threads to prevent the worst."
 

Primus

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,015
Do we actually have a "just asking questions" in this thread? It really is Gamergate all over again.
 

crimsonheadGCN

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
3,108
Clifton, NJ
FYI, if you see an account making weird statements then you should check when it was created and how many posts that they made. New accounts and those who have few posts are usually just trying to get people riled up.
 
May 26, 2023
3,483
Forbidden Lands
It's really funny that you're trying to be clever with the "dot jpg" thing because you're still trying to make an argument against something that I'm definitely not implying. You jumped into the conversation, seemingly without going back to understand the context, so nothing you've just said has anything to do with what I've said. It's just a misunderstanding.

I can't believe I was dumb enough to think tracing the reply tree of your comments would lead to anything other than "just ignore them."
 
Sep 6, 2020
1,390
The spider-man flag thing really amuses me because I just imagine the aneurysm these guys would have if they ever saw Actual New York City
 

MrSaturn99

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,751
I live in a giant bucket.
Spock's apologism and the *MobyGames guy's "we're just cataloging games!" nonsense are blatantly transparent. Just say how you really feel.

*Seriously, what the hell? Profoundly disappointing.

Doesn't seem like it. Their statement today:

"Well my friends, 3 days ago I got a message from Steam support that this group was recieving too many reports/flags and it could result into the group and curator getting deleted and since that day I've been talking to the Steam support and making it sure that we were following Steam's ToS, so I had to delete every single discussion thread with the help of the other mods and I couldn't thank them enough for the help.

Since now we are in good terms with Steam I decided to lock new threads to prevent the worst."

Others have said this, but I'm amazed Steam threatened any action at all given how notoriously hands-off they are with their non-existent moderation.

At least they're apparently shutting down discussion, but that's hardly satisfactory. Harassment/bigoy-fueled garbage like this needs to be pulled from the roots.
 

isopeltheblue

Member
Feb 16, 2024
122
I can't believe I was dumb enough to think tracing the reply tree of your comments would lead to anything other than "just ignore them."
This is getting absurd. At this point you're consciously choosing to misunderstand my post, because even though I've tried to explain to you twice that we're not even talking about the same thing, you are looking for a reason to argue with a perspective that I absolutely don't hold.

In no way have I said or even suggested that anyone should "just ignore them". I'm just willing to admit that I don't know what the right way to handle the situation is, which is why I asked so earnestly. Personally, I don't find it beneficial for my own mental health to go out of my way to be upset with strangers on the internet who I disagree with.

I don't know how to be any clearer. We are not in disagreement on this issue. You're trying to argue with someone who more or less agrees with you, and I don't understand why. Whether or not you choose to accept that, I'm not going to engage in this discussion anymore.
 
May 26, 2023
3,483
Forbidden Lands
User Warned: Antagonizing Fellow Member
This is getting absurd. At this point you're consciously choosing to misunderstand my post, because even though I've tried to explain to you twice that we're not even talking about the same thing, you are looking for a reason to argue with a perspective that I absolutely don't hold.

In no way have I said or even suggested that anyone should "just ignore them". I'm just willing to admit that I don't know what the right way to handle the situation is, which is why I asked so earnestly. Personally, I don't find it beneficial for my own mental health to go out of my way to be upset with strangers on the internet who I disagree with.

I don't know how to be any clearer. We are not in disagreement on this issue. You're trying to argue with someone who more or less agrees with you, and I don't understand why. Whether or not you choose to accept that, I'm not going to engage in this discussion anymore.

I'm not saying people shouldn't care about it, but personally I don't want to go out of my way to be upset about a game with questionable content. I'm just not going to play it.

We're in disagreement.

And why is it fine for you to expend your energy and mental health on explaining to total strangers why your personal thing is to just ignore it? Seems odd you don't mind doing that.
 

Ash_Greytree

Member
Oct 31, 2023
559
Doesn't seem like it. Their statement today:

"Well my friends, 3 days ago I got a message from Steam support that this group was recieving too many reports/flags and it could result into the group and curator getting deleted and since that day I've been talking to the Steam support and making it sure that we were following Steam's ToS, so I had to delete every single discussion thread with the help of the other mods and I couldn't thank them enough for the help.

Since now we are in good terms with Steam I decided to lock new threads to prevent the worst."
Ah, so Valve is still A-OK with bigots running curators and steering people to spew hate and engage in harassment. It's just that they want the steering and the hateful messages to happen in a private Discord or Telegram server so that Valve can have plausible deniability.

Valve, Steam, Gabe Newell, and the other people at the company who are just letting this continue but asking for the hate group to "keep the noise down" can go fuck themselves. Gabe is the same as Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk and I'm sick and tired of people defending Steam and Valve as "flawed". They're not "flawed", they're the same type of libertarian (really, just far-right-wing) tech-bro shitpit as any other big tech company like Twitter or Facebook or Google. But because they "saved" PC gaming and everyone's game libraries are there, they get so many free passes, and any bad shit they do gets memory-hole'd a week after it happens.
 

Witch of Miracles

One Winged Slayer
Member
Jun 13, 2019
2,864
United Kingdom
So if I understand it correctly Sweet Baby Inc is the single most powerful entity in the gaming industry and is responsible for everything wrong with it.

Yup OK makes perfect sense. No notes.
 

Temascos

Member
Oct 27, 2017
12,786
If a game developer/publisher went to Sweet Baby and they pointed things out to them in their game, could a developer just go "Thanks, but we're keeping it anyway"? From what I understand of this, they can, so this whole BS about "censoring" is nonsense from the get go.
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,744
Read about that Toriyama quote from chris kindred on Twitter trough Dragon ball reddit. Not really the best thing to post while people are grieving.

Otherwise this is probably one off the biggest nothing burgers in recent times. People who are bothered by this should just go outside or something
 
Last edited:

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,461
If a game developer/publisher went to Sweet Baby and they pointed things out to them in their game, could a developer just go "Thanks, but we're keeping it anyway"? From what I understand of this, they can, so this whole BS about "censoring" is nonsense from the get go.
A better question might be, why wouldn't they be able to do that? The hiree isn't typically the one with power over the relationship. If the developers didn't like what they were doing, what barrier would be in place to stop them from just going "this is a waste of our money so we're not going to pay you anymore"?

Like if I was hired to do some programming for a game and said "actually this whole project stinks, I'm going to make something else instead", you'd expect me to get thrown out, not the studio I'm working for. They control the project, they hired me to contribute to it within a certain capacity, if they feel like I'm overstepping my bounds they're the ones who get to choose whether or not they want to keep me around.
 
Last edited:

turbokacper

Member
Jun 24, 2021
188
Man, I hate gamers. I feel so bad for developers getting review bombed because of this. Such a fucking sad state this industry is in. Steam allowing for these hate groups to exist and leave bad reviews is messed up.
 

turbokacper

Member
Jun 24, 2021
188
pPEwAi8.png


It looks like you can't even report this curator group on Steam anymore. Just throws an error. Did Steam block it because of increased number of reports? Ridiculous stuff.
 

L Thammy

Spacenoid
Member
Oct 25, 2017
50,461
Read about that Toriyama quote from chris kindred on Twitter trough Dragon ball reddit. Not really the best thing to post while people are grieving.

Otherwise this is probably one off the biggest nothing burgers in recent times. People who are bothered by this should just go outside or something
I didn't really know what this was about so I looked it up, and it lead me to a post on the Asmongold subreddit where people were posting things like "I think the blacks are the new KKK".

I think it was said earlier that Asmongold was one of the big names promoting this, so I guess that's the sort of people we're looking at here.
 

Hercule

Member
Jun 20, 2018
5,744
I didn't really know what this was about so I looked it up, and it lead me to a post on the Asmongold subreddit where people were posting things like "I think the blacks are the new KKK".

I think it was said earlier that Asmongold was one of the big names promoting this, so I guess that's the sort of people we're looking at here.
Not defending those people and frankly I have no idea who Asmongold is. Planning on keeping it that way. The tweet was shared on Dragon Ball reddit. Any other day I wouldn't have minded that tweet and agreed with it but that day wasn't the right time. Pain is still to much right now
 

Messofanego

Member
Oct 25, 2017
26,890
UK
Read about that Toriyama quote from chris kindred on Twitter trough Dragon ball reddit. Not really the best thing to post while people are grieving.

Not defending those people and frankly I have no idea who Asmongold is. Planning on keeping it that way. The tweet was shared on Dragon Ball reddit. Any other day I wouldn't have minded that tweet and agreed with it but that day wasn't the right time. Pain is still to much right now
I wish you would have just posted what you saw rather than being vague about it. But I'd like you to explain what's wrong about posting this tweet, or the timing of this. We are allowed to have an opinion on racist creations like Mr Popo even after someone's died, and Chris is also praising other characters. But the source you got it from (reddit) can't handle opinions and think he's sitting on Toriyama's legacy because they're a bunch of losers.
53e
 

Captain of Outer Space

Come Sale Away With Me
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,842

View: https://twitter.com/KahliefAdams/status/1766594277768106493

The full text of the second tweet:

To clarify, the Steam page was created in Jan 2024, and the complaint from the SBI employee and the call to action to get it shut down was in February. So this WHOLE thing started as a quiet "let's put this list together to signal that we don't like diversity in the games we MIGHT play" and I believe formed to be a harassment campaign to target this group.

So take all of that as you will, listen to the podcast for more thoughts, and let's continue to do the work that has made our industry better, smarter, and more diverse!!