I wish them the best of luck. Exciting things happening outside of Blizzard and it's sad to see.
Red 5 Studios was an American video game company that was known for its high ratio of former employees of Blizzard Entertainment. The founders previously worked on World of Warcraft.[26] Mark Kern was a team lead, William Petras was art director, and Taewon Yun was part of the company's Korean operation which oversaw the launch of World of Warcraft in Asia. The company's only game release was Firefall.
is a good marketing term.
The story was kind of bad though.Lol @ trying to revise history to where SC2 is a failure now. SC2 is one of the most important games of the past decade for what it did for esports and streaming.
Success is relative. It's a profitable project, but there's a reason Blizzard is out of the RTS game, and this time it isn't politics.But Starcraft 2 has been out for a decade, so if it underperformed it certainly doesn't seem to have happened recently. Everything they've done makes it look like a successful game that got fairly decent support which has finally concluded.
Where am I making anything up? I sat in the front row as I watched Riot eat into Blizzard's market share. Hell, half the stuff I said is coming straight from the mouths of esports guys currently at Blizzard.What the hell are you even on about? MOBAs killed the RTS and 'esports' was hardly a thing outside of CS and StarCraft back then, and MOBAs where most definitely a thing in 2010.
And wtf @ the bolded, SC2 is widely regarded as the greatest RTS ever made.
I get it, you dont like the game, but maybe stop making shit up? Your conclusions are not based on reality, like at all.
Success is relative. It's a profitable project, but there's a reason Blizzard is out of the RTS game, and this time it isn't politics.
SC2 was supposed to be the torchbearer for esports, but it ended up being the start of Blizzard's decline.
Where am I making anything up? I sat in the front row as I watched Riot eat into Blizzard's market share. Hell, half the stuff I said is coming straight from the mouths of esports guys currently at Blizzard.
Success is relative. It's a profitable project, but there's a reason Blizzard is out of the RTS game, and this time it isn't politics.
SC2 was supposed to be the torchbearer for esports, but it ended up being the start of Blizzard's decline.
Yeah, people acting like SCII was some wild off-the-charts success are making things up.
Blizzard deliberately sabotaging their custom maps scene - the biggest driver of Brood Wars' incredible longevity - because they were salty about DotA is the biggest story nobody talks about of that decade. And it's kind of mind-boggling that they've doubled down on that and removed custom maps altogether from their subsequent games like Overwatch.
Rob Pardo was a big part of that. His ego could never get over Dota overtaking his own design. He blocked Blizzard from being first to market with their own MOBA, and actively worked against HotS as well. The guy's an industry legend, but he was also the chief saboteur.Yeah, people acting like SCII was some wild off-the-charts success are making things up.
Blizzard deliberately sabotaging their custom maps scene - the biggest driver of Brood Wars' incredible longevity - because they were salty about DotA is the biggest story nobody talks about of that decade. And it's kind of mind-boggling that they've doubled down on that and removed custom maps altogether from their subsequent games like Overwatch.
Thing is, games don't magically become popular overnight, or even on their own merits. SC2 lost to LOL not because LOL (and MOBAs in general) was the better product, but because Riot ran circles around Blizzard when it came to live ops and esports. Riot pioneered the developer-driven esports model, and that was a huge contributor to its growth, especially in Blizzard's "home turf" of South Korea. MOBAs are in general more accessible than RTS games, and that's certainly a massive contribution to its popularity that can't be overstated, but they're still among the most inaccessible. It was savvy business sense that won them the battle in the end--and why no other MOBAs other than Dota have found true success since.Yeah but that's because of things Blizzard has little sway over like MOBAs which has nothing to do with Starcraft. The point is that Starcraft 2 was by no measurable metric a failure. Genres evolve and split and MOBAs are having their time in the mainstream. Same as 3D platfomers in the late 90s.
Rob Pardo was a big part of that. His ego could never get over Dota overtaking his own design. He blocked Blizzard from being first to market with their own MOBA, and actively worked against HotS as well. The guy's an industry legend, but he was also the chief saboteur.
Thing is, games don't magically become popular overnight, or even on their own merits. SC2 lost to LOL not because LOL (and MOBAs in general) was the better product, but because Riot ran circles around Blizzard when it came to live ops and esports. Riot pioneered the developer-driven esports model, and that was a huge contributor to its growth, especially in Blizzard's "home turf" of South Korea. MOBAs are in general more accessible than RTS games, and that's certainly a massive contribution to its popularity that can't be overstated, but they're still among the most inaccessible. It was savvy business sense that won them the battle in the end--and why no other MOBAs other than Dota have found true success since.
No. And let's not twist my words here--I never said SC2 was a failure. I said that it failed expectations. Starcraft 2 was handed the privileges of a massive budget, the market leader in esports share, a huge install base, and more--and squandered it all with bad decisions. The amount of effort they put into this game just for it to lose out to a scrappy startup in Riot within 2 years of release was humiliating and exposed the rotten politics and hubris at Blizzard. And in its wake, the industry is afraid to build another RTS.So your definition of failure was that the esports scene isn't as big as one of the biggest games in the world? Because that's and absurd metric.
By what metric? Because we've been over this and no one has been able to present it.
Overwatch has custom maps though. They weren't there at launch but it does have it.
It did make me quit playing halfway through Heart of the Swarm after binging through SC, BW and Wings of Liberty on Hard, so in a way, yeah. It WAS that bad. And I say this as someone who bought WoL on launch day.It was but people really overreact to it as if the story being bad is a thing that could ruin the best RTS campaigns ever made in mission, unit and enemy variety.
Show me your popularity graph then. As far as I can see all RTS are down in the same gutter as ever.
And when it comes to sales:
SC1 last reported number was 11M in 2009
While Wings of Liberty alone sold 4.5M in its first 6 months. So by end of 2010 we are minimum over 15.5M
You can add 1.1M for HotS in its first two days and another million for LotV in its first 24 hours.
We never got another big update sadly because ActiBlizz decided to switch to MAU reporting but to claim that AoE outsold the combined StarCraft and WarCraft franchise is just silly as WarCraft 3s initial orders were 4.5M, Frozen Throne was 2.5M initial orders, WC2 sold 3M.
Speaking of active users.
According to Steam Charts all variants of Age of Empires add up to about 20k players over a 30 day average.
Sadly we don't have that number for SC2 but we do know that around 220k 1v1 ladder matches happen per day.
And 1v1 is not the most popular gamemode of SC2, coop is and there is also 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, arcade, custom games and campaigns.
You first conveniently ignored "early 2010s esports boom and the early days of Twitch" then conveniently ignored "most popular RTS in the last decade" which are all objectively true. AoE was a completely non factor in the genre in the last 15 years until AOE2 HD and subsequent DE releases.
I'm not talking about "half the stuff I said", I'm referring to you framing it as if SC2 not beIng no.1 was because it was a 'mediocre' game that failed. MOBAs are way more accessible and is played in teams, SC2 is arguably the most competetive 1v1 game there is. Blizzard could have not done fuck all, but nothing could change the fact that MOBAs was taking over the legacy left by StarCraft.Where am I making anything up? I sat in the front row as I watched Riot eat into Blizzard's market share. Hell, half the stuff I said is coming straight from the mouths of esports guys currently at Blizzard.
If you think MOBAs would have killed RTS games regardless of the business decisions that were made by both Riot and Blizzard, then I have an Overwatch team to sell you.I'm not talking about "half the stuff I said", I'm referring to you framing it as if SC2 not beIng no.1 was because it was a 'mediocre' game that failed. MOBAs are way more accessible and is played in teams, SC2 is arguably the most competetive 1v1 game there is. Blizzard could have not done fuck all, but nothing could change the fact that MOBAs was taking over the legacy left by StarCraft.
It has nothing to do with StarCrat II, or the quality of it, both as an experience and as a comptetetive scene.
I'm tired of seeing people blame the decline of RTSs on SC2, as if it was some kind of faliure and a bad game, just because it didnt become the biggest esport or whatever. Fact is, most people just don't want to lose alone or face the steep learning curve. That playerbase is never going to be the biggest there is, just look at fighting games.
Overwatch is also a game played in teams, that is the point. 'Incredibly inaccessible' is not at all how I would describe LoL next to SC2. A high skill-cealing doesnt prevent you from having fun with your friends, if it is accessable enough. Most PC players can control a character on screen, or is 'grand scale of games' Solitiare and Minesweeper?If you think MOBAs would have killed RTS games regardless of the business decisions that were made by both Riot and Blizzard, then I have an Overwatch team to sell you.
Imagine trying to argue that League of Legends, an incredibly inaccessible game on the grand scale of games, somehow became a worldwide record-setting phenomenon by the merit of its gameplay alone.
You are so incredibly out of touch it's honestly difficult to have this conversation with you. I've said my piece, if you want to hold onto your dogma here that's on you.Overwatch is also a game played in teams, that is the point. 'Incredibly inaccessible' is not at all how I would describe LoL next to SC2. A high skill-cealing doesnt prevent you from having fun with your friends, if it is accessable enough. Most PC players can control a character on screen, or is 'grand scale of games' Solitiare and Minesweeper?
And eeh, most 'world-wide phenomenoms' get there because of their gameplay alone, or did Rocket League become a hit because of its massive marketing budget? I bet Minecrafts coroprate backing must've made a huge impact during it's early days. Man, I wonder what would've happened if Counter-Strike didn't have the suits telling them what to do during development back in the 90s.
Yeah, gameplay alone doesnt get you anywhere, that's why a stupid WC3 custom map would never get popular.
Is this post for real? For anyone born in the last 20 years Starcraft 2 is the only RTSIs everybody really getting excited about an RTS made by the people who couldn't make a standout RTS out of the sequel to the second most popular RTS franchise in the world?
It's pretty hard to take you seriously talking about how hard Riot owned SC2 if you apparently worked at riot. Lol.You are so incredibly out of touch it's honestly difficult to have this conversation with you. I've said my piece, if you want to hold onto your dogma here that's on you.
But lol @ the idea that the years we spent at Riot diagnosing problems with the onboarding process, crafting a messaging strategy to counter the Dota trolls, building a best-in-class user experience, and investing millions of dollars and dozens of personnel into a homegrown esports team, and becoming one of the first companies to self-publish in several worldwide territories, did absolutely nothing because thank god our gameplay did all the work 🙄
It was 6 years ago. But nah, discount me if you want. The facts are out there.It's pretty hard to take you seriously talking about how hard Riot owned SC2 if you apparently worked at riot. Lol.
I mean, there has been virtually no stronger tribalism in PC gaming than the <--Dota <--> Riot <--> SC --> hate-rangle, as evidence by some of your use of language even now (dota trolls?) and it's OK to be proud of your work at RIOT in making league a behemoth, but surely you can see your internal bias towards something you helped make in your posting, much like I see my internal bias towards IKEA furniture I have assembledIt was 6 years ago. But nah, discount me if you want. The facts are out there.
It was 6 years ago. But nah, discount me if you want. The facts are out there.
"Dota trolls" are a very specific breed of people I had to deal with (e.g. "League takes no skill"), so no, it's not pejorative language--it's literally what they were--Dota players who didn't play LOL, but antagonized the LOL community. I helped draft the strategic messaging for LOL, as I had an extensive Dota background prior to joining Riot, and a big part of that outreach was dealing with Dota trolls. If you were part of the MOBA scene back around 2009-2012, you'd know exactly the type of people I'm talking about.I mean, there has been virtually no stronger tribalism in PC gaming than the <--Dota <--> Riot <--> SC --> hate-rangle, as evidence by some of your use of language even now (dota trolls?) and it's OK to be proud of your work at RIOT in making league a behemoth, but surely you can see your internal bias towards something you helped make in your posting, much like I see my internal bias towards IKEA furniture I have assembled
Riot did for all intents and purposes own Starcraft 2. Either that or Blizzard really sucks at supporting an eSports scene, wasted budgets, got mediocre viewership on streams, and generally lost the mindshare and pie of the eSports scene on their own.It's pretty hard to take you seriously talking about how hard Riot owned SC2 if you apparently worked at riot. Lol.
The game failed expectations. It single-handedly killed off the viability of the RTS genre and lost Blizzard's #1 spot in the esports market.
It sold on hype, not on the basis of being a good game. It was serviceable but it was not worthy of carrying the torch for RTS games, and that was before MOBAs arrived on the scene and ate the RTS genre's lunch. Even before SC2's launch, globally it was estimated that Warcraft 3 was more popular as a vehicle for Dota than it was for actual standard play.
You are so incredibly out of touch it's honestly difficult to have this conversation with you. I've said my piece, if you want to hold onto your dogma here that's on you.
But lol @ the idea that the years we spent at Riot diagnosing problems with the onboarding process, crafting a messaging strategy to counter the Dota trolls, building a best-in-class user experience, and investing millions of dollars and dozens of personnel into a homegrown esports team, and becoming one of the first companies to self-publish in several worldwide territories, did absolutely nothing because thank god our gameplay did all the work 🙄
Haha, fucking Stephano...Broodlord Infestor and Swarmhost stalemate metas didn't help either.