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'Final Fantasy’ Maker’s 30% Plunge May Be Just the Beginning
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Honestly, for as excellent as FFXVI sometimes is, it's more akin to DMC than a proper Final Fantasy.
Aside form a general misunderstanding of how game development works, you're contradicting yourself.
In the same post, you claim that nothing about the game stands out as only being possible on current gen consoles but also admit they would have to "cut back the graphics a lot" to make it work on last gen consoles.
I refuse to play the game currently because of motion blur and frame rate bullshit and I'll be waiting for the PC version, and not from EGS, but is this guy really trying to make this "mixed reviews" thing a meme?
You can turn off the motion blur, the option's been there for >2 months now
If the most people can do is complain about some perceived "mixed" slight in the opening and framing, while admitting the actual substance of the article is fine and accurate, in their usual Mochzuki screeching tirades then no. It's not fair, it's just bitch eating crackers, again. And it's not even what the thread or article is really about.
This literally happened in the last Mochizuki thread too. It's tiring, half this thread is drive-bys against the (co)author.
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I'm thinking more in the traditional sense like Dragon Quest, Star Ocean, Xenoblade, etc...
This genre is becoming more and more niche.
Mochizuki can certainly have his own bias as anyone can, but the content is true and there are several reasons why so I can agree its tiring. Other analysts are not positive on SE either.
Nah don't give me that; Mochizuki is the main person who ran with "FF16 has low sales and SE is unhappy with them" when the actual context both from another reporter and SE themselves was "met the lower end but still within satisfactory expectations." Plus, I don't know how else you interpret "Square Enix games have poor quality control" next to a picture of FF16. There is an obvious bend that people are seeing with him on this subject that you're not seeing from any other analyst.
People focus on the mixed reviews because it's a factually wrong statement in the two sentences of the article.
There's been plenty of discussion on the real issues here.
But reality is other sites reporting this article focuses on the FFXVI timing, so the clickbait is creating wider misinformation that diminishes the point of the article.
Considering FFXV did more than half of its overall lifetime sales on PS4, I don't think being a single platform game was the real problem with XVI's. It felt like it just didn't deliver a must-play experience for people not already into Final Fantasy. The franchise probably needs a catchy reinvention similar to P2 to P3, or maybe even FFVI to VII.
I don't think FFXVI is the problem. It's by far the hardest push for a "mainstream" Final Fantasy meant to appeal to westerners from SE in a long time. Sadly, I wish this means they would double down on more niche stuff like HD-2D games and more remakes/remasters of old games, but this probably means they'll invest even more in live service and mainstream AAA stuff.
Like I said, bitch eating crackers. Listen to yourself here, Mochizuki likely didn't even select the image much less placement, the editorial team will have done that. All he doesis submit copy which he did with another journalist.
For me, the game just didn't click. I've never not finished a mainland single player FF and I stopped out of sheer boredom. I get that reviews were actually good, but not sure how that translates if it becomes so divisive with the user base.
Isn't this the same guy that made up some fake expectations that Sony has for PSVR2 , then claimed that Sony reduced production, and then again claimed that sales didn't meet expectations? And Sony came out to say that the whole thing wasn't true?
Despite the aesthetic, it doesn't play like a western RPG would. It's not even remotely open worldly since you move from location to location through a map and a hub.
My brother in Hydaelyn Mochizuki isn't the only analyst down on Square Enix.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/final-fantasy-maker-30-plunge-030000471.html?guccounter=1
You mean when he directly quoted the person that was there, and then that person issued a clarification? Then everyone in the thread ignored that and ironically kept going on about how Mochizuki was intentionally misrepresenting things?
It's bitch eating crackers, mate.
Yeah, beacause thats how cross gen development works? The weaker platforms get much worse graphics. They would obviously have compromises like longer/more loading screens, but the game would 100% be able to be ported to last gen if they really wanted it to run there for more reach. If Horizon FW can be cross gen with its graphics and vast open world, no reason a mostly linear game like this couldnt.
How on earth is FFXVI "mostly linear??" The game practically drowns you in side quest content.
Had nothing to do with it but is perfectly fine with representing that the game was in any way related to the decline of the company right now that we know is more related to separate divisions.
Okay.
Sony also had to check him about the PS5 production thing a few years back. And Nintendo had to check him on the 4k Switch dev build stuff too. And Microsoft had to issue a statement back pre-pandemic concerning rumors of MS trying to buy Japanese companies.
1. Why are you reposting the same article
2. I uh.. am not talking about analysts being down on SE in general, but specifically this one game
He wanted to let his prior inaccurate interpretation rock even after the clarification, but doing it for full posterity is one thing.
But like, the very first sentence in his article today is not only wrong, but entirely misleading. Like, manmademan is exactly on the money here, it is absolutely shit-stirring
Because the game is divided up into areas and is not a seamless open world?
1. OP only has pay-walled Bloomberg version.
2. Actual content of the article is more important than the headline.
3. AAA games in development for a long time should probably do better than just 'fine' and the FF brand is showing fatigue/stagnation.
Y'all are tripping over your own feet every time you mention the "met the lower end of expectations" stuff. That only means it's not a disaster. But every interview they did suggests they wanted this to be Final Fantasy's coming out party, where they became a major AAA title on the level of a Ghost of Tsushima or a Horizon: Forbidden West or a God of War: Ragnarok. Don't tell me "Final Fantasy isn't capable of that", because I'm not saying it is or it isn't, I'm saying that's what they wanted. If its unrealistic, that's on Square.
it's not the most mindblowing game to look at but the Eikon battles - pretty much the main attraction - definitely would lose the razzle and dazzle necessary. and some select cinematic scenes I suppose
that said I think they did scale things back quite a bit just to make a functional game that didn't come out in 2025 or get a bunch of delays or whatever
There is a very big difference between massive maps divided into zones one can explore at leisure and a "mostly linear game." You're making it sound like FFXVI is FF4 or FF13 here, which ARE hyper linear games. FFXVI isn't too dissimilar in how it's structured than FFXII is, and absolutely nobody ever called that a "mostly linear" game.
Mixed reviews? What? 😂 and isn't this guy the same one that is iffy with his news on a fairly consistent basis?
FF16 is square continuing to figure out how to keep the franchise relevant as Japan's share of the console market continues to decline. It does some things very well, and some things not so well- but the advantage that Horizon and GOW have are that those are franchises built from the ground up to appeal to western tastes in the first place, and FF needs to shed a lot of preconceptions about "what it is" that go back to tropes that have plagued the series since FF7.
The overall writing and voice acting is head and shoulders better than any other entry- so they got that right, but it's often jarring that the cast walks around looking and emoting like plastic mannequins.
Aloy for instance looks very much like you'd expect a 20ish year old woman to look in Horizon FW:
on the other hand, Annabella Rosfield absolutely does not remotely look like a 56 year old woman:
hell, she barely looks human. This is an anime doll wandering around in 3D space, it's not a person. Likewise we can look at how larian handles the movements of even random, throwaway NPCs in Baldur's Gate:
View: https://x.com/alionabaranova1/status/1695224369360879847?s=20
It's night and day. On one side are in-game characters and NPCs that move like actual people, and the other is full of unnatural movements out of cut rate animation from 2 decades ago. God of War, Ghost, Baldur's Gate, and Horizon are also stuffed to the gills with player customization options so that nobody's Aloy, Jin Sakai, Kratos, or tadpole MC has to look like anybody else's. FFXVI on the other hand sticks Clive in one outfit at all times, and does not allow the player to change this outside of set points in the storyline where the outfit change is done FOR you. It does not help that the outfit you are sewn into for 2/3rds of the game is some kind of wildly impractical pirate/vampire cosplay outfit.
Again- I like the game and think it's the best entry they've put together in a long time- but FF isn't going to end up having the mass appeal square wants it to in the west until they figure out the aesthetics and player choice issues. That being said- This is an UNUSUALLY stacked year in terms of incredibly high profile, high rated games hitting shelves back to back- no other year in recent memory is anywhere close.
Hogwarts Legacy (84 MC) was May 5
Zelda TOTK (96 MC) was May 12
Lord of the Rings- Gollum (lol) was May 25
Street Fighter 6 (92 MC) was June 2
Diablo IV (86 MC ) was June 6
FFXVI (87 MC) was June 22
Pikmin 4 (87 MC) was July 21
Baldur's Gate 3 (96 MC) was August 3
Armored Core VI (86 MC) was August 25
Starfield (84 MC) was September 6th
Lies of P (82 MC) is September 19
Mortal Kombat 1 (85 MC) is September 19th
And this is just five months. In a less stacked up year Square may have come closer to the upper end of their projections, but it's going to be rough for ANY of these games to be a huge breakout success with so much competition.
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Who placed and selected the images has nothing to do with the placement next to "poor quality control" being supervillain Mochizuki's subliminal scheme? Yeah, yes, ok.
Besides, FFXVI is related to the decline, the game did "fine" when it probably needed to do much better. Mochizuki similarly points to Ever Crisis at the end of the article which has decent download stats. Investors just expected more from these titles.
Plenty of specific games are singled out as examples by analysts too; Forspoken, Avengers, DioField Chronicles, Echoes of Mana, BD Brilliant Lights. That's more the point, we have a serious stock collapse and wide net cast as to why... but people's hate boner still fixates on "mixed" and can't really ever get past Mochizuki. It's like this every time.
I agree FFXVI often feels cheap for a game of its calibar, but it's not the main issue. Forget about God of War or Horizon, FFXVI is not catching up to Nier Automata or Persona 5, and it's not due to production value. Elden Ring's NPCs don't move their lips when they talk, yet western players are not bothered. They need to figure out how to tell a compelling story from start to finish. They need to figure out side quest. They need to figure out exploration and level design. They need to figure out RPG system. They need to figure out how to write interesting characters (emphsis on the "s").
Look at FFX's release date, and what games came out in the same time frame on the same platform. Final Fantasy is not supposed to be a franchise that fears competition.
Allow me to introduce you to Starfield, the latest RPG made by Bethesda, where you move from location to location through a map and a hub.
Square Enix.
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Do you think they can now? My favorite final fantasies are the ones with the quirky environments. FF7, FF9, FF6, FF10.
I wish they would go back to that style because they are their best when they are aren't confined artistically.
This isn't 1998 anymore. Final Fantasy is NOWHERE CLOSE to being as relevant as the Harry Potter Franchise or Zelda, both of which were on shelves about a month prior and are fairly long games.
This forum discourages discussion of "the wizard game" for understandable reasons, but that only goes to obscure just how wildly popular that game is:
View: https://x.com/MatPiscatella/status/1693628550740414820?s=20
FF is not and will never come close to doing THAT kind of business. It'll double FFX's lifetime total before the year is out.
And again, who's fault is that? Not too long ago FF sold better than Zelda, better tha God of War. That's EXCTLY the point of the article. The industry has grown, many old franchises have grown, Final Fantasy has not. It has been mismanaged for a long time, and FFXVI is the latest chapter that yet again, the franchise failed to have any growth.
Resident Evil is now selling roughly the same copies than FF per entry. The difference is each RE game costs a fraction of FFXVI's budget, and Capcom release two RE games every three years, meanwhile FFXVI took six years to develop. Investors know who's making money and who isn't.
The company that makes more turn based games than anyone is saying that lol?
There is valid criticism when the person writing the article frames it misleadingly. More so because the writer has been doomposting XVI ever since.
that guy is something. idk what beef he has but it takes a bit of credibility away by doing that.
Final Fantasy 16 ditched turn-based combat to appeal to younger generations, producer says | VGC
Final Fantasy producer Naoki Yoshida has said that Final Fantasy 16 will ditch the turn-based combat in order to appeal to a new, younger audience.
www.videogameschronicle.com
Them releasing small budget turn based games does not belie what they think the "main target" wants.
It's not just "the industry" growing, it's specifically that western territories are where are the growth is while japan is declining. When FF was at its peak, the JP market made up WAY more of the global total. It's a fraction of that. FF needs to retool itself by quite a bit if it wants to grow along with it, but it risks alienating its fanbase by doing so, and we can see this in every ff16 thread where there is whining about how it needs to go back to turn based gameplay from the SNES era. 16 was a good couple of steps in that direction, but not nearly enough.
With that kind of market growth, tastes change. Zelda has done a very good job of completely reinventing itself into a very different franchise than it was on N64 or Gamecube, and likewise God of War doesn't remotely resemble what it was on PS2. Harry Potter is a multimedia juggernaut franchise on the level of Star Wars that isn't comparable to either- even non gamers are VERY well aware of what it is and FF will never hit that level.
Saying "FF shouldn't be afraid of competition!" is lunacy, because it ignores that these very, very, large franchises have been outselling it for well over a decade. When is the last time FF outsold Diablo? Diablo 1 in 1996?
And then you would have people complaining that a major AAA title was yet again being held back by last gen consoles -- three years after the current gen consoles came out.
FFXVI already has issues running well on PS5. It simply would not be the same game if it were a cross gen title. It isn't as simple as "cutting back the graphics," because that's not how game development work. It would require the game itself being quite different.
Weren't SE shareholders throwing shade at their last quarterly meeting that another smaller Japanese company ie Capcom eclipsed them.
I don't see any valid criticism. Actually all I see is the usual doomposting about Mochizuki. That's the issue.
Somehow Nier Automata managed to sell 7.5 million copies, with only 0.5 million from Japan. What exactly did it do to appeal to western fans? Persona 5's vast majority sales are from the west too, and that is a turn based anime RPG about Japanese high schooler. Speaking of reinventing itself, who has reinvented itself more than Final Fantasy? They just reinvent for the worse, unlike Zelda or God of War. HL is not the first Harry Potter game, but it's by far the best selling one, you know why? Because it's the best Harry Potter game, and it gave what HP fans want: to explore Hogwarts. You talk like big IP is guaranteed hit, what about all the HP and Star Wars games that failed? These games stand on their own quality just like Final Fantasy.
Eclipsing is saying it nicely. Ten years ago Capcon was less than half of SE's market cap, not it's more than twice. Capcom doesn't even have a successful mobile game or MMORPG. Now you see why SE shareholders are mad. The videogame industry has been on gravy train for a decade, except Sqaure Enix.
Developing the RE Engine did absolute wonders for Capcom since RE7.
SE has been unsuccessfully trying to create an engine of their own for awhile without great success. With that said, given that FFXVI uses a new engine of its own, it might be very comparable to RE7 if it's something the company can use in future titles for a fraction of the time and budget.
A lot of cheesecake, honestly, and I think we all know this. There is a LOT of fanservicey 2B shit all over the place. FFXVI will likely sell over 7.5 million copies before it's run its course- that "3 million" was from the first week of sales. Did Nier Automata sell 3 million copies in a week? I think we know the answer to that.
Persona 5 took quite a while and multiple releases to sell what it did- and again, did not do what it did in a week. It sells well, but it is nowhere near Horizon big, God of War Big, Hogwarts Legacy Big, or Zelda big.
FF honestly hasn't changed as much as fans think it has. Themes, designs, aesthetics are consistent across games, even if the gameplay is tweaked from entry to entry. Combat system aside, XVI and XII are EXTREMELY similar games.
Which was the point of my putting the metacritic rankings in. It's not just that these are "big franchises" these are some of the most critically acclaimed entries ever seen in their genres, all hitting at once within a few weeks of each other. It's not just an "FF" problem, almost all of them with the exception of Zelda, HL, and BG3 are going to underperform because the fanbase isn't made of infinite money. A lot of hay is being made over how much damage BG3 probably did to Starfield sales by releasing in close proximity to it- and though it's very difficult to say (because SF is available via gamepass) I don't think anybody is saying that the impact is "zero."
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