That's just the plot of National Treasure.
On topic, I wish them luck but Britain will never give anything back because they gain nothing from it. They get tourism money from it and no one besides the country stolen from seems to care.
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Ethiopia says British museum must permanently return its artifacts
- Thread starter platocplx
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That's just the plot of National Treasure.
On topic, I wish them luck but Britain will never give anything back because they gain nothing from it. They get tourism money from it and no one besides the country stolen from seems to care.
Aren't Native American museums operated by Native nations though?
Who would they give it to? themselves?
Otherwise, yeah give them back all the more if it's something sacred to native american population.
If an art piece was stolen from the Vatican and displayed in China, it certainly should be brought back.
Regardless of whether or not it would be bad for tourism in China.
This thread shows unequivocally that the administration of this site doesn't give the slightest fuck about people of colour, with that total lack of moderation in here.
Should just rename this site. White FeminismERA.
Should just rename this site. White FeminismERA.
So countires shouldn't get back what is rightfully theirs because of tourism. Gotcha.
How beneficent of you.
Right right. Gotta make sure those dirty black know how to take care of their property, before they can have the permission to loan back their own heritage.
Hold the fuck up dude. You don't get to walk in here and call me a fucking racist because I don't wanna see museums stripped of their displays.
Why not? If it's very clear that the artifacts were clearly stolen or acquired through dubious means, then they should go back. We'll deal with the others on a case by case basis. The conversation needs to happen.
If your reasoning for people not being able to get their heritage back is "because tourism", the difference is rather meaningless.
The original is a twitter phrase used to describe progressive movements that exclude people of color, and when that exclusion is pointed out, give a "your issues can wait until we take care of the larger problems" response. It started as a divide between 'mainstream' feminism and black feminists on twitter, hence the name.
User Banned (2 Weeks): History of aggressive behaviour and insults towards other members.
Yeah actually he does. And if he won't, I will. You don't give a fuck about anyone other than yourself and you think white man museums in white man countries are the center of the world. Piss off. Tourists and people who actually care about history and heritage visit all over the world. Museums are operated everywhere. We have someone in this thread who exactly studied the topic at hand, giving his opinion that it should be returned. Your ignorant opinion doesn't matter.
The fuck you on about?
Where should Native American museums go? What's WW2 museum got to do with this? Are you talking about Nazi artifacts? I'm pretty sure Germany doesn't want them lol. But in any case, if you steal it, you give it back. End of Discussion. This "security" and "tourism" facade must end.
And YOU dont get to deny people with the heritage of being colonized, enslaved, stripped of their rights by Western powers their rightful artifacts under the guise of security bullshit. Do we need to list the atrocities Britain carried out or what?
Okay yeah I am done in here. I like museums and I like museums having a wide range of artifacts from all over the world and don't wanna see museums suddenly have to return everything they have because it's not from THEIR country.
Therefore I am clearly a racist somehow despite me not having mentioned race ONCE in any of my posts.
Okay.
Therefore I am clearly a racist somehow despite me not having mentioned race ONCE in any of my posts.
Okay.
We may need to revisit that one day because by god the list is long and shady.
There's museums all over the world.
Museum are not naturally occuring structures that spawn only in western countries.
OP
OP
Right. Nazis stole arts from Jewish people and owners are able to claim their art back. It's no different to that. It's stolen. Give it back.
iirc, basically the Ottoman Empire let British archaeologists restore and take marbles from the parthenon for safekeeping so that they could be preserved (further research I just did shows that this may have been based on documents that the head archaeologist forged, so actually illegal). After the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Greece is like "hey can we have are stuff back?" and Britain is all like "....nah."
I guess the justification is that the Ottoman Empire let them do it and they don't *have* to give it back.
The entire Middle East fuckery is 100% on them and France. Not to mention they along with other colonial powers are also responsible for how the African continent turned out. Almost every conflict in these parts of the world can be traced back with a straight line to Britain or another European power.
Your inference doesn't make sense, though, when reading the entire post.
You're putting your personal access to museums that hold stolen cultural artifacts above the desires of the people those artifacts were stolen from. Their museums remain empty of things that could boost their tourism and prop up their societies. Their children have only textbooks to see their own past culture.
But hey, it's convenient to the pillagers.
I dunno about Italy but France is nothing without the theft and looting of other peoples lol.
I am imagining John cleese's character from jade empire saying this
90% of the conflict in middle-east is the arbitrary lines the European powers drew on the map and did power plays with the local tribes. Like favoring Al Sauds over Hashemites in Arabia and Tutsis over Hutus in Rwanda (which led to the genocide).
The reason I abstained from putting India in there (you are referring to the partition right?) is due to Mohammed Jinnah's role in creating this mess. Yes Britain was incredibly stupid, but I think Jinnah would have pushed for partition even without British support.
Yeah Marcel Proust, Victor Hugo, Voltaire etc... France has absolutely no culture without theft *rolls eyes
The defenders in this thread are absolutely not surprising. The only reason the artifacts were stolen in the first place is to distract from consistently underachieving white culture, and for them to be returned rather than hoarded would leave nothing but an empty reminder that they have produced nothing worth displaying.
Who would want to acknowledge that? I wouldn't. So just pity them for their small minded yet totally understandable reaction.
Who would want to acknowledge that? I wouldn't. So just pity them for their small minded yet totally understandable reaction.
France has been one of the traditional centers for art. It's frankly bizzare that someone would be unaware of that.
Consistency underachieving? Wtf is this thread. So I guess Isaac Newton and Galileo and Mozart and Beethoven are undeserving
"I'm feeling very attacked right now for my mostly bullshit, euro-centric point of view regarding right to heritage and artifacts that belong to countries we happened to pillage some time ago."
This is a rhetorical question, but do you really think this is helpful or true? You're being every bit as ridiculous.
They probably should return them and I don't really have a good argument for why they shouldn't.
I am a lazy selfish asshole though and would be fine if they didn't because I don't want to travel all over to all corners of the world to see all the well known interesting shit.
I am a lazy selfish asshole though and would be fine if they didn't because I don't want to travel all over to all corners of the world to see all the well known interesting shit.
So the famous Elgin Marbles were wilfully and severely damaged by people in the British museum who used wire wool and an incredibly caustic cleaning agent to strip off the remainder of the original paint that was still on the statues because it was felt that they were too grubby, too brown and note pure (white) enough in the state that they were in.
I did not know this. So essentially they're arguing that the political entity they went into contract with no longer exists, therefore they get to hang on to these artefacts indefinitely.
Maybe it's a problem with my reading comprehension, but I found it convenient that the country that stole the artifacts just happens to be one that meets your safety standards for keeping them.
Wow, you remember the name of a character from Jade Empire?
Museums have stuff from all over the world all the time. They just borrow them or pay money for them.
Read Freedom at Midnight. Sardar Patel was more vehemently pro-Partition than Jinnah. The Hindu faction wanted a separate India just as much as anyone wanted a separate Pakistan. But yes Jinnah is also partly responsible.
Okay I think I see where people are coming from now and it's my fault for not explaining what I am saying properly. I am not singling out the Ethiopian artifacts and only talking about them alone.
I would have the same opinion if it was the UK demanding artifacts from the Smithsonian or the Russians demanding artifacts from the French. I would still want the countries in question to gurantee security, care etc etc. It was never about race or country of origin for me. Thats why I never mentioned a specific country and never ONCE mentioned race.
So long as the artifacts came into the hands of the museum in question through means that is historically acceptable (spoils of war etc etc) and if a wasn't outright stolen in the dead of night I don't think a museum should be required to return them. If it can be proven that they were indeed stolen or bought from sleezy black markets then duh they need to be returned to the country of origin.
It's got nothing to do with race for me. You all are the ones who laid that on me. Granted it was my fault for not being more specific. Hope that clears up what I am saying.
I would have the same opinion if it was the UK demanding artifacts from the Smithsonian or the Russians demanding artifacts from the French. I would still want the countries in question to gurantee security, care etc etc. It was never about race or country of origin for me. Thats why I never mentioned a specific country and never ONCE mentioned race.
So long as the artifacts came into the hands of the museum in question through means that is historically acceptable (spoils of war etc etc) and if a wasn't outright stolen in the dead of night I don't think a museum should be required to return them. If it can be proven that they were indeed stolen or bought from sleezy black markets then duh they need to be returned to the country of origin.
It's got nothing to do with race for me. You all are the ones who laid that on me. Granted it was my fault for not being more specific. Hope that clears up what I am saying.
I'm talking about Britain's shameful administration up to recent modern history.
https://yourstory.com/2014/08/bengal-famine-genocide/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/thereporters/soutikbiswas/2010/10/how_churchill_starved_india.html
That's really interesting. I stand corrected. Thanks for writing this.
Did anyone steal that airplane? Nobody is saying the British shouldn't be able to make their own cultural artifiacts, they just have trouble with it so they jacked someone else's.
Okay let's see--
*shakes head*
I don't think you get it at all. Spoils of War == stealing
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