Uzupedro

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May 16, 2020
12,395
Rio de Janeiro
An interview with David Springate, Dirt 5's Technical Director(and If I am not mistaken, a member of this forum!), he talks about A LOT of stuff, sharing his insights on how X|S development field is as for this launch and how the consoles are going to evolve.

GDK stuff
Person: ''Are there features or things in GDK that are not currently there''

David(Codemasters/Dirt 5 Technical Director): ''Yes but I can't tell you about''

Person: ''I am hearing that GDK is basacilly in its infancy and there is a lot of stuff in on the table''

David: ''It's in its infancy, because it's new, but it's not particurly lacking...''

Person: ''Like barebones''

David: ''It's not barebones, they brought a lot, no, most of the tools over from of SDK in terms of familitary and how it works, in fact stability and speed improved a lot on GDK, but yeah, I am happy with it, if anything there is very little small things I would like, I have weekly meetings with XBOX and my account manager get a lot of feedback from me, I am actually very happy with it''.
For me the big thing in game dev is not are my tools really amazing, of course this is really important, but how is my relationship with the teams who deal with, how they are able to take feedback and how they are able to help me out, all these things help me things make a great videogame''
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PS5 and XSX as the gen goes on stuff

Person 2, reads a fanboyish comment on livestream: ''GDK is just an excuse because PS5 is putting out the same performance on multiplats'', stops reading, ''It's not that straightforward, you have seen 2 games''

Person 1: ''Optimization in a pandemic as well, either way, both consoles are going to be awesome.

David: ''I think so''

Person 2: ''I am expecting the XSX going further than the PS5 as the gen goes on, we can talk about that, just the raw specs, that's a big divide'', he says a couple things I don't understand, ''That's a significant power divide no?''

David: It really does depend tho, let's go back at that scenario where 2 teams at AMD get split of, there is a conversation happening between the team and the costumer, Sony or MS, and Sony says, Look we want this thermal throttling thing, how far is going to push the hardware, because now you have so many hardware threads on CPU you can churn through code very fast, that leave me with a lot of headroom to overclock the GPU and how much further is gonna go, and optimizations for that might be different because of the layouts of CU on XSX in contrast, so I am just not sure

(Timestamped, 1:32:15)


Sorry for any typos.
 

Sems4arsenal

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Apr 7, 2019
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Of course as time goes by -- optimization will make games use the hardware more.

We already know the differences between the XSX and PS5 will be small.
 

nib95

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It seems David is actually very happy with with the new Xbox GDK and that it's faster and more stable than the XDK. I do find that Interesting.

Also funny how the host tried to lead with the XSX being significantly more powerful, but David sort of shutting it down saying he's not sure, and implicating the faster clocks, hardware threads and churning through code very fast.
 

platocplx

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Oct 30, 2017
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It seems David is actually very happy with with the new Xbox GDK and that it's faster and more stable than the XDK. I do find that Interesting.

Also funny how the host tried to lead with the XSX being significantly more powerful, but David sort of shutting it down saying he's not sure, and implicating the faster clocks, hardware threads and churning through code very fast.
This Def is the second dev ive heard talk about how fast the CPUs are. Bluepoint was saying they were having a tough time filling in meaningful work to the CPU as well. Very interesting insight.
 

VanWinkle

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Oct 25, 2017
16,631
"That's a significant power divide, no?" Huh? I don't know what that guy is talking about. This is the one of the smallest differences in two competing consoles ever.
 

Affrogamer

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Sep 7, 2018
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Whatever performance difference we see at the start of a generation does not change. It has always been like this with every console generation. Xbox guys are about to do the same thing they did with XBOX ONE but things never changed. Whether the Xbox tools are in infancy or not, 3rd party games will be the same on both consoles. It is what it is.
 

MrKlaw

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Oct 25, 2017
34,975
He sounds happy enough with the GDK, plays down the differences or at least the blunt comparison by TF, and seems keen to wait to see how the different approaches of narrow/fast vs wide/slow play out. Which is absolutely sensible.
 

Prine

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Really is a great interview. Must watch. And i love TechBoss candour, nice chap all round :)
 

Mister_X

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Aug 22, 2020
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It seems David is actually very happy with with the new Xbox GDK and that it's faster and more stable than the XDK. I do find that Interesting.

Also funny how the host tried to lead with the XSX being significantly more powerful, but David sort of shutting it down saying he's not sure, and implicating the faster clocks, hardware threads and churning through code very fast.
That was Dealer right? Wouldn't surprise me

Ah it was the one with the hat...well he tried at least lol
 
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Eeyore

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Dec 13, 2019
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Dirt 5 kept freezing up on the PS5 for me. Its clear what system it was optimized for first.

Miles Morales froze on me three times playing it through. I don't think we can blame it solely on the games here, PS5 OS is not in a great spot. Unless you think Miles Morales wasn't optimized for on the PS5.
 

Loanshark

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Nov 8, 2017
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I googled GDK too find out what its short for, and the top result was German Doner Kebab. Im going to assume that this is what the interview is about.
 

FuturaBold

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Oct 27, 2017
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Miles Morales froze on me three times playing it through. I don't think we can blame it solely on the games here, PS5 OS is not in a great spot. Unless you think Miles Morales wasn't optimized for on the PS5.
Every play session I had a freeze with Dirt 5 until today when the patch was released. Didn't have any issues with Miles.
 

rokkerkory

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Jun 14, 2018
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Nice interview... great to hear from a dev in this capacity

good to know MS provides weekly support
 
Dec 8, 2018
1,911
If you can't properly use and split your work across 52 CU efficiently the faster clocked 32 CU might pull ahead even. This gen will probably be a mix on who comes out on top from game to game but nobody should really care since the difference as we already have seen in indistinguishable and only for console warriors to argue about.
 

Mister_X

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Aug 22, 2020
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People really need to accept that these systems are super close to each other in power and speed.
 

CrispyGamer

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Jan 4, 2020
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Damn that's interesting i love that we're seeing two completely different design philosophies perform quite similarly
 

Deleted member 46804

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Whatever performance difference we see at the start of a generation does not change. It has always been like this with every console generation. Xbox guys are about to do the same thing they did with XBOX ONE but things never changed. Whether the Xbox tools are in infancy or not, 3rd party games will be the same on both consoles. It is what it is.
There were quite a few games that ran at 720P on Xbox One but 1080P on the PS4 at or near launch. Obviously as the gen progressed 900P became the norm on the One. Things can and will change but the gap between the two systems no matter who wins out will likely be small.
 

Prine

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Whatever performance difference we see at the start of a generation does not change. It has always been like this with every console generation. Xbox guys are about to do the same thing they did with XBOX ONE but things never changed. Whether the Xbox tools are in infancy or not, 3rd party games will be the same on both consoles. It is what it is.
You should watch the interview. Addresses this specifically. Xbox games jumped from 720 to 900p norm and to 1080 when lead platform (Rise of the Tomb Raider). He said it depends on dev experience, which does imply how comfortable you are with the tools available.
 
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nib95

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There were quite a few games that ran at 720P on Xbox One but 1080P on the PS4 at or near launch. Obviously as the gen progressed 900P became the norm on the One. Things can and will change but the gap between the two systems no matter who wins out will likely be small.

There weren't quite a few games that ran at 720p on Xbox One and 1080p PS4 at launch, instead there was one example at launch with COD (the other times we had a 720p vs 1080p situation were ironically long after launch, eg MGSV, PES, Golf Club etc).

The majority of the games at launch were pretty much indicative of the same kind of difference we'd see all gen (predominantly 720p vs 900p or 900p vs 1080p), with a few games that had parity, just as FIFA 14 at launch was 1080p on both Xbox One and PS4.
 

dlauv

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Oct 27, 2017
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Good job transcribing op.

Whatever performance difference we see at the start of a generation does not change. It has always been like this with every console generation. Xbox guys are about to do the same thing they did with XBOX ONE but things never changed. Whether the Xbox tools are in infancy or not, 3rd party games will be the same on both consoles. It is what it is.
PS3?
 

Dphex

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Oct 27, 2017
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Dirt 5 kept freezing up on the PS5 for me.
Game that causes trouble for me is COD
Miles Morales froze on me three times playing it through. I don't think we can blame it solely on the games here, PS5 OS is not in a great spot.

So, at this rate there are no new launch games really stable on the PS5. and i´ve read that some people experienced Demon´s Souls and Astrobot freezes/crashes too...

idk but this launch is not really great so far...who needs a new console when most of the new games have problems and you can´t even use an external drive without the possibility that your console crashes or even bricks.
 

arsene_P5

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Apr 17, 2020
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Its even smaller than that when u factor in the higher clock speed in the PS5 GPU. The difference we are seeing right now in 3rd party games won't change much, if at all, throughout the generation! Xbox fans needs to deal with that reality.
You do know the 15% difference is calculated by using the TF number, which ignores a lot of things but takes clockspeeds and CU into account? So how is the difference smaller than 15%, when adding clock speeds, which are already part of the calculation into the mix?

I guess you need to deal with the reality that your math doesn't add up and there are tasks that benefit from going with more CU and tasks that benefit from higher clockspeeds.

Both consoles are close of course, but your argument doesn't even make sense.
 

VirtualCloud

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Aug 3, 2018
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So, at this rate there are no new launch games really stable on the PS5. and i´ve read that some people experienced Demon´s Souls and Astrobot freezes/crashes too...

idk but this launch is not really great so far...who needs a new console when most of the new games have problems and you can´t even use an external drive without the possibility that your console crashes or even bricks.

I mean personally speaking, to me the PS5 launch is still fantastic, I had 2 crashes on cod in probably 12 hours or so of play. Had no issue with the other 4 games I've bought so far either
 

Deleted member 46804

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There weren't quite a few games that ran at 720p on Xbox One and 1080p PS4 at launch, instead there was one example at launch with COD (the other times we had a 720p vs 1080p situation were ironically long after launch, eg MGSV, PES, Golf Club etc).

The majority of the games at launch were pretty much indicative of the same kind of difference we'd see all gen (predominantly 720p vs 900p or 900p vs 1080p), with a few games that had parity, just as FIFA 14 at launch was 1080p on both Xbox One and PS4.
Battlefield, CoD, Dead Rising which wasn't cross platform but improved on the resolution with 4. Performance difference at launch isn't indicative of what we will see even six months from now.
 

nib95

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Battlefield, CoD, Dead Rising which wasn't cross platform but improved on the resolution with 4. Performance difference at launch isn't indicative of what we will see even six months from now.

It was indicative of the kind of difference we'd see between the PS4 and Xbox One throughout the entire generation. In other words the 720p vs 900p, or 900p vs 1080p difference persisted as the most common difference in a majority of multi-platform games between the two systems, with 720p vs 1080p and 1080p vs 1080p being outliers, just like at launch.
 

Affrogamer

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Sep 7, 2018
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Bronx, NY
You do know the 15% difference is calculated by using the TF number, which ignores a lot of things but takes clockspeeds and CU into account? So how is the difference smaller than 15%, when adding clock speeds, which are already part of the calculation into the mix?

I guess you need to deal with the reality that your math doesn't add up and there are tasks that benefit from going with more CU and tasks that benefit from higher clockspeeds.

Both consoles are close of course, but your argument doesn't even make sense.
uuhmm yes it does. If the XSX was also had 10.3 TF total with more CUs but with lower clock speed, PS5 would outperform it purely because of the higher clock speed in the PS5 GPU. This makes the GPU gap between both consoles closer than the 1.8TF difference on paper. The CPUs on both consoles are pretty much the same. You should watch the Cerny "The Road To PS5" video again.
 

Difio

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Mar 19, 2020
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It was indicative of the kind of difference we'd see between the PS4 and Xbox One throughout the entire generation. In other words the 720p vs 900p, or 900p vs 1080p difference persisted as the most common difference in a majority of multi-platform games between the two systems, with 720p vs 1080p and 1080p vs 1080p being outliers, just like at launch.

I don't think we can simply compare what happened in the previous generation with this new one. With Xbox One, the "big limiting factor" as far as I can remember was not GPU, but memory bandwidth. Cutting internal rendering resolution to 720p or 900p were the easiest way to overcome that bandwidth limitation (http://www.redgamingtech.com/xbox-one-esram-720p-why-its-causing-a-resolution-bottleneck-analysis/).

Xbox Series X and PS5 are more balanced machine, I can't see a big bottleneck like that. So, as situation is different, I think things will be different.

To take another example, if we look at 360/PS3 gen, at launch third party games performed very poorly on PS3, but things have changed over the years due to improvements on Sony's devkits and devs mastering PS3's architecture.
 

nekkid

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Oct 27, 2017
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uuhmm yes it does. If the XSX was also had 10.3 TF total with more CUs but with lower clock speed, PS5 would outperform it purely because of the higher clock speed in the PS5 GPU. This makes the GPU gap between both consoles closer than the 1.8TF difference on paper. The CPUs on both consoles are pretty much the same. You should watch the Cerny "The Road To PS5" video again.
The TF count in the PS5 is because of the higher clock speed. If both measured at 10.3TF but approached it in different ways they'd still both have 10.3TF.
 

Bulby

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Oct 29, 2017
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Whatever performance difference we see at the start of a generation does not change. It has always been like this with every console generation. Xbox guys are about to do the same thing they did with XBOX ONE but things never changed. Whether the Xbox tools are in infancy or not, 3rd party games will be the same on both consoles. It is what it is.

If you are wrong in 6 months, you have to take down the picture of Cerny hanging over your bed. Deal?
 

Prine

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Oct 25, 2017
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Whatever performance difference we see at the start of a generation does not change. It has always been like this with every console generation. Xbox guys are about to do the same thing they did with XBOX ONE but things never changed. Whether the Xbox tools are in infancy or not, 3rd party games will be the same on both consoles. It is what it is.
What a bullshit comparison. XSX isnt underpowered.