Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
10,181

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaF5z9J0YWQ

Eagerly awaited by fans of Atlus' celebrated RPGs, Metaphor ReFantazio is built on the Persona engine with Persona mechanics, with a fantasy edge. In this extensive review, Oliver Mackenzie focuses on the PS5 code (the only review code offered, alas) but brings in comparisons from the PC and Xbox Series demos where appropriate. As expected, the game is terrific, but there are a number of technical problems and performance issues that demand attention.

The next two issues though are perhaps the largest, and might end up defining the visuals for the worse. Metaphor has relatively poor image quality, with a lot of aliasing and shimmer at all times. Like Persona 5, there's no anti-aliasing whatsoever, but critically here the geometric density of the game has seen a big bump, providing more fodder for aliasing artifacts. Combine that with a high-contrast art style that uses outline shaders, and the game is just an aliasing mess. PS5 renders at circa-1656p, so resolution isn't really the issue I'd say. Image detail looks fine enough from a normal viewing distance, and the game seems reasonably sharp. It's just the presentation of aliasing that annoys, and that's something that only a temporal AA technique could really fix - though getting that working properly with the existing engine tech here would likely be a reach.

In contrast, the PC version of the game runs pretty well at native 4K at high refresh rates on my RTX 4090-based system, but it doesn't actually look much cleaner at all. It seems like the size of some of the outlines scales with rendering resolution on PC as well, which means that you do lose a bit of visual stylisation as you step up the res, and the finer lines tend to shimmer obviously. It takes a full 8K downsampled to 4K to approach decent image quality, and that drives performance often below 60fps even on a 4090. These brute force approaches just aren't going to work for console hardware, so it's a bit of a 'TAA or bust' situation for image quality in this title I think.

The nuclear option may just be to wait a month for PS5 Pro, where the 45 percent GPU bump would likely just about lock the game to 60fps. This assumes that the game has PS5 Pro support and that Atlus doesn't do something poorly considered, like forcing higher res rendering. If the Game Boost features deploys the full force of the Pro GPU to older software, that may be enough as well. Unfortunately, we weren't sampled Xbox code for this review, so I can't fully address performance and visuals on Xbox Series consoles. But we do have a lengthy playable demo that in my experience on PS5 corresponds closely with the full game, so I did take a quick look at that code.

On Series X, there is a very similar visual experience to PS5. Graphics settings appear identical, with the same 1656p resolution combined with similar shadows and imposters. Performance is, again, similar to PS5, with a variable frame-rate that dips into the 40s but can hit 60fps in lighter content. Series S, predictably, takes a resolution cut all the way down to 1080p. That also affects the UI, which goes from 4K on Series X and PS5 down to 1080p on the S. Other visual settings look similar, except that shadow draw occurs at a closer range on Microsoft's junior console. Performance is notably degraded compared to Series X and PS5, with frame-rates sometimes dipping into the 30s.


I am definitely eager to play more of this game though in my personal time in the future. I'm just not sure where to play it - if I should continue on PS5 or on the PS4 Pro code on PS5, wait for PS5 Pro, or restart it on PC or Xbox. It's very much contingent on how Atlus develops the game further through post-release patches, and especially dependent on how the game works on PS5 Pro. Metaphor has major performance compromises, and we really need to see those issues addressed. I'd like to see a quality 30fps mode, a 60fps mode that runs more consistently at the target performance level and low frame-rate compensation support for 120Hz output with VRR enabled on PS5 (the developer is halfway there - 120Hz is supported with an unlocked frame-rate)


www.eurogamer.net

Metaphor: ReFantazio - a sublime game let down by bizarre technical choices

Digital Foundry reviews Metaphor: ReFantazio - a truly superb RPG marred by older tech, odd technical choices and inconsistent performance.
 
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shodgson8

Shinra Employee
Member
Aug 22, 2018
4,571

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaF5z9J0YWQ&ab_channel=DigitalFoundry

Eagerly awaited by fans of Atlus' celebrated RPGs, Metaphor ReFantazio is built on the Persona engine with Persona mechanics, with a fantasy edge. In this extensive review, Oliver Mackenzie focuses on the PS5 code (the only review code offered, alas) but brings in comparisons from the PC and Xbox Series demos where appropriate. As expected, the game is terrific, but there are a number of technical problems and performance issues that demand attention.
 

Kinthey

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
23,672
I don't mind the kind of outdated graphics but you'd think performance would then at least be rock sold
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,084
exubCw7.png
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,251
Only way to have a stable 60fps is the PS4 version on PS5.

Series S drops to 30s
Series X and PS5 at around 40-60
120fps support but no VRR enabled, so feels bad.

No AA at all.


Digital_Foundry_-_Metaphor_ReFantazio_-_Fantasy_Persona.png


image.png
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
114,037
Even for this type of game I gotta look forward to the Pro helping out lol...
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,984
Frame rate is not great on PS5...
Not great on anything it seems. Also how the hell did they manage to break the Xbox VRR? Isn't that just a built in system?

Apparently you need 8K downsampled to see any image improvement over PS5. Apparently even a 4090 can't do that and hit 60fps. This game seems to be a bit of a mess.

It does run like shit, it's baffling
Sounds like it is running everything on screen at all times even if the enemies/npcs are blocked by a wall.
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
18,571
Only way to have a stable 60fps is the PS4 version on PS5.

Series S drops to 30s
Series X and PS5 at around 40-60
120fps support but no VRR enabled, so feels bad.

No AA at all.


Digital_Foundry_-_Metaphor_ReFantazio_-_Fantasy_Persona.png


image.png
VRR is enabled, what isn't is Frame Compensation to allow games on PS5 to engage with VRR all the way down to 24FPS
 

LossAversion

The Merchant of ERA
Member
Oct 28, 2017
11,095
Really curious why some devs seem so adverse to techniques that are otherwise commonplace in the industry. They obviously don't care about a consistent framerate with this game so what is stopping them from adding some form of AA to clean up the image? This is a turn-based game for the most part so the performance isn't a major issue but those jaggies are some of the worst I've ever seen. Curious that there's no 30fps quality mode, honestly.
 

Wereroku

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,984
it should be able to maintain a better frame rate though
That's only if they make a pro mode or Sony has a boost mode. Otherwise it can't see the higher end GPU. That is also dependent on Atlus not adjusting the resolution or other setting on the theoretical Pro mode.

It's pretty disappointing how games like this get a lot of extremely positive reviews while having questionable performance.
Honestly for me at least since it is turn based I am probably not going to be bothered by the framerate beyond wishing they had a 30fps lock toggle or something. I would rather have the option to lock it lower then have it jumping up and down constantly.
 

Naha-

Member
Feb 6, 2019
1,172
It's pretty disappointing how games like this get a lot of extremely positive reviews while having questionable performance.
 

Kenzodielocke

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,251
I am glad the PC version was mostly patched up performancewise and modders exist.

It really sucks about people on console though. This should run and look better.
 

SirKai

Member
Dec 28, 2017
8,546
Washington
Fluctuations between 40-60FPS is hardly ideal, but it's a turn based RPG so I don't really care. Is there a 30FPS Quality mode?

It's pretty disappointing how games like this get a lot of extremely positive reviews while having questionable performance.

Because it genuinely does not bother 99% of people, even among enthusiasts. PC versions that were reported to be stuttery or otherwise highly problematic like RE4 Remake, Dead Space Remake, and Elden Ring still have Very or Overwhelmingly High user reviews. Even for folks that do notice this kinda thing, they usually shrug it off and keep playing unless it's REALLY bad.
 

tiebreaker

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,283
Game looks great on smaller screen on Portal and probably on Steam Deck too. The lack of AA is not as apparent.
 

Patitoloco

Member
Oct 27, 2017
25,052
It's pretty disappointing how games like this get a lot of extremely positive reviews while having questionable performance.
Honestly, and I said it in the Silent Hill thread, a good game is a good game.

That it drops frames or stutters or whatever can sour the experience of some, but doesn't make the game itself bad. Elden Ring, Silent Hill, Wukong, this, etc

Although I do feel this one is a little bit inexcusable given how it really doesn't look like anything groundbreaking, graphics wise. At least add fucking anti-aliasing Atlus, for god sake lol
 

Philippo

Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
8,308
I fear not even begging for a Switch 2 version will solve the woes or compromises I will have to make to play this on an SD...
 

Papercuts

Prophet of Truth
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,812
Not surprised after the demo but man I wish it atleast had some AA. Hopefully this is the last time we see this engine.
 

Jawmuncher

Crisis Dino
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
41,112
Ibis Island
Not a HUGE deal for me since it's still primarily a Turn-Based RPG but is a bit of a shame they couldn't manage a locked 60 considering it's still on the PS4 after-all.
 

Lotus

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
114,037
Because it genuinely does not bother 99% of people, even among enthusiasts. PC versions that were reported to be stuttery or otherwise highly problematic like RE4 Remake, Dead Space Remake, and Elden Ring still have Very or Overwhelmingly High user reviews. Even for folks that do notice this kinda thing, they usually shrug it off and keep playing unless it's REALLY bad.

Pretty much. Like I've been fussing over the Steam Deck performance this past week, but I would've easily settled for it if I had to lol
 

modiz

Member
Oct 8, 2018
18,571
The fact it looks this aliased at 1656p is nuts. They needed to go all the way to downsampling from native 8K on PC to get a decent IQ…

And it sounds like the engine basically doesn't do LoD management and occlusion culling. They have to move on to UE for their next project.
If it's CPU bound, it'll perform the same.
DF says it's GPU bound, the reason for the performance many times it seems is it tries to render much more than it needs to.
 

Gibson

Member
Oct 29, 2017
2,459
Thankfully the art style and generous amount of anime cutscenes save it for me. The game has a nice presentation if you ignore the technical stuff.
 

Tony72495

Member
Apr 26, 2019
1,095
If it's CPU bound, it'll perform the same.

It's not, DF believes the game is largely GPU bound.

Their theory is that this engine is very simplistic when it comes to things like geometry culling and scaling for bigger environments.

Normally in a modern engine like UE5, staring at a blank wall will cause a bunch of geometry behind that wall to be culled and not rendered, so performance increases.

But in this game, performance doesn't seem to change, it only changes based on which direction you look. That leads them to believe that invisible geometry is all still being rendered, so it may be that most of an entire city environment is being rendered at once instead of being culled in steps, and it means that even a modern powerful GPU can't really cope.

Like basically imagine how bad Skyrim would perform if you turned off LOD's and rendered Whiterun all the way from top of High Hrothgar.
 

construct

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Member
Jun 5, 2020
9,344
𖦹
luckily the community will fix the PC version, it Atlus should really go fix it themselves. it's a stain on an otherwise seemingly great game
 

Miker

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,182
Asking for "any form of AA" isn't helpful, really, because adding FXAA or SMAA to this wouldn't help with the shimmering at all. It needs something temporal to address it. See: Alien Isolation, which I just installed to play for October. Even running at 4K with SMAA, it shimmers like mad, and needs a TAA mod for a stable image.
 

Lumination

Member
Oct 26, 2017
14,084
Apparently you need 8K downsampled to see any image improvement over PS5
Native 4k does look better. See the bones in the top right there. You can tell even in this compressed image. (See 10:46 for native footage.) But yeah, it's marginal. Feel free to play on console and feel reasonably good that most people are getting the same not amazing experience 😅

image.png
 
Aug 28, 2024
110
After the PC gaining significant improvement with the last patch, I would expect the same on PS5 soon.

The demo looks fine to me with VRR.
 

Spinluck

▲ Legend ▲
Avenger
Oct 26, 2017
30,015
Chicago
Hope PC community fixes this close to launch.

There is no reason this game should be running like shit.
 

Rainy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,358
Honestly I kinda hope P6 looks a lot better but I don't have high hopes really.
 
Quick summary of negatives - visual faults New
OP
OP
Super

Super

Studied the Buster Sword
Member
Jan 29, 2022
10,181
Quick summary waiting for the text article.
  • Roughly 1656P on PS5 /Series X which can drop into the 40s.
  • PC needs 200% render scale at 4K for decent image.
  • 1080P PS4 version on PS5 for 60 FPS consistency, just about locked.
  • Moving to PS4 version has cutbacks to imposters, texture quality and UI element resolution like maps.
  • Game seems GPU bound.
  • Series S has a 1080P resolution - 1080P UI, can drop to the 30s for FPS.
  • Series X has stutter when turning the camera below 60 FPS or 120 FPS, doesn't happen on Series S or PS5.
  • Game has 120 Hz mode with no VRR.
  • No 30 FPS capped mode.
  • Waiting a month for PS5 Pro is the "nuclear option".
  • Assumed PS5 Pro would lock the FPS to 60 using ultra boost mode.

Ollie requests:
1. Add a mode that targets 30 FPS with a cap.
2. Add a mode that targets 60 FPS with a cap.
3. Don't increase resolution on PS5 Pro or keep res boost optional.
4. Add LFC support for 120Hz output on with VRR on PS5.
 
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FriendlyNPC

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,740
Utter technical incompetence. There is just no valid excuse for a game looking like a late ps3 game to perform this poorly.
 
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Lant_War

Classic Anus Game
The Fallen
Jul 14, 2018
24,311
Asking for "any form of AA" isn't helpful, really, because adding FXAA or SMAA to this wouldn't help with the shimmering at all. It needs something temporal to address it. See: Alien Isolation, which I just installed to play for October. Even running at 4K with SMAA, it shimmers like mad, and needs a TAA mod for a stable image.
Ah hell no. If anything we should praise Atlus for not smearing their game to make it appear "smoother", a little pixelation has never killed someone while TAA ghosting sure has