Destiny 2: Curse of Osiris |OT| Guaranteed Lighthouse Run, $19.99

[Deleted member 11995]

I don't think anybody can argue with a straight face that there isn't an extremely vocal section of "the community" that is ridiculously childish and, yes, toxic in how they voice their criticism of the game and displeasure towards Bungie in general. Come on now. Be serious. Every time anything negative happens, they're the first to burst into tears and shit their pants, loudly and repeatedly.

This shouldn't even be up for discussion. Bungie deserve criticism for certain things, but some people go too far. That's not in any way a controversial opinion, it's a plain and simple fact.

In other news, the game has been performing horrendously for me this week.

Thought I'd check in for The Dawning, but I've barely been able to get anything done. Keep getting kicked back to orbit, disconnected and black-screened when loading into the tower. Without any hitch from my internet connection.

Right now, as I type this, the game's stuck in a continuous loop of loading the sound effects and soundtrack of the tower without any visuals for about 10 seconds before cutting off with the message, "Attention. Trying to reconnect. For more information blahblahblah: weasel or anteater or some fucking animal...", then trying again. It's been about 15 minutes now. Hopefully when I close it down my save file doesn't get corrupted or some shit.

 

[I KILL PXLS]

Started the Saint-14 questline last night. It's neat that it's in there but I feel Bungie did a really poor job of messaging this content even existing. I know that "hidden" pieces of content are Bungie's thing (shoutout to the Outbreak Prime exotic quest), but finding out about this in post-launch discussions probably doesn't do Bungie favours with respect to the perceived value of CoO.

Grinding for the materials for the Verses isn't particularly fun either. It's great that you can get them from doing a variety of different activities -- even ones outside of CoO areas/modes -- but the grind is long for the sake of it, in my opinion. I'd rather have had the Verse Legendary weapons implemented as CoO-specific activity rewards, similar to Strike-specific loot. Grinding for materials, returning to Brother Vance, and then using the Forge doesn't feel particularly engaging.

Hell, I feel that the grind for the Dawning gifts is easier and more enjoyable since the materials are far easier to come by and do a better job of encouraging exploration. I say this because the rate at which Radiolarian Culture drop from chests (I know they come from other sources as well) on Mercury seems too low.

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I found the mission pretty disappointing. It's basically just some voice over at the beginning, a bunch of Infinite Forest filler with zero VO (getting soooooo tired of the IF), and then the actual final mission area with some VO, but nothing of significance is actually said. The only cool thing about it is the resting place room. If nothing else, the art team at Bungie continues to be on point.

 

[HiredN00bs]

i don't know what this is supposed to mean. bungie aren't some martyrs or something. they are remunerated for the work they put in, and are rightly being criticized for a product that doesn't quite meet the standards set by its predecessor along with some obscure maneuvers and nickle and diming approaches they have taken.

the whole "toxicity"/"abusive community" thing, imo, is overblown and quite frankly comes off as an apologist angle in this specific case because the vast majority of push back they have gotten (that i have seen) has been quite level headed.

devs get criticized everyday b, they'll be aight.

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Well, most of what I've seen hasn't been level-headed (it's not as bad on ResetEra as other places, for sure). And that it's making a difference in talent leaving the studio means the community vitriol is having an impact on the game's future prospects.

All of this commentary is predicated on us caring about the success of the game. If you want to take a broader perspective, sure, everyone will be alright because we're talking about a single video game, a non-essential part of survival. If Destiny vanished tomorrow almost every single person would move on with their lives. It's a little silly to zoom out that much here, IMO.

I'd probably be happier playing a smaller, less problematic game like Reach anyways. Bungie isn't likely to make that, however.

 

[StrykerIsland]

Any Class:
- Mask of the Quiet One (best on Sentinel, but it gives your grenade/melee a cooldown of ~45 seconds (versus the usual 80 seconds) on any Titan provided you're taking damage semi-frequently, such as in a Raid or a Heroic Strike)
- Actium War Rig (20-30% extended mag on all Auto Rifles, further increasing the DPS on what is already the best DPS weapon class)
- Dunemarchers (run faster -- nice QoL Exotic when running underbelly, PEs, or Strikes)

Sunbreaker:
- Hallowfire Heart (less useful now that people are starting to use Supers more liberally, but on this week's NIghtfall for example, your Thermite grenade will instantly recharge when your Super is full. In general, a full super = 20 second grenade/melee cooldowns)
- Mk.44 Standasides (technically the same for every class, but it's especially useful for Sunbreakers who need to apply Melting Point. The overshield will help a Strike boss from melting you, and the reduced cooldown of ~35 seconds on your melee will allow you to apply double the amount of Melting Point)

Striker:
- Insurmountable Skullfort (even more Pulse grenades? Infinite melees? Good deal)

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You forgot the best perk, Dunemarchers give you an AoE blast when shoulder charging, which decimates red bar mobs.

 

[LiK]

Fed MW cores to Antiope and got Range perk first try. Oh yes baby.

Gonna test it out with Phosphorus MG4 and Sol Pariah 6 in regular PVP soon. Should be fun with Peacekeepers.

 

[Solid Shake]

It makes me sad how I wish this game was versus how it is.

Like, there is so much potential, I want to love it so much, but it only upsets me most of the time in PVP and there isn't much to do worth doing besides the lootbox grind in PVE.

I really hope they give the game a huge overhaul in terms of exotic power to truly make them fun to use. I'll never understand why they don't make them all incredibly good and fun to use. It doesn't have to be unbalanced like Hawkmoon or Thorn, just fun and useful. I'll never understand...

 

[irishonion]

So, even the dawning exotic ships won't break down into bright dust? Just shards right?

 

[Lord Brady]

So, even the dawning exotic ships won't break down into bright dust? Just shards right?

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Depends on how you received the ship. If it came from the engram, it should give you dust. Otherwise no dust.

 

[Deleted member 2171]

Nobody is "gaslighting" anyone I will be happy when the internet is over its fad of using this word.

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Gaslighting has a fixed definition.

Someone sending employees messages that they didn't actually work hard on their content after publically talking about how much work they put into parts of Osiris is gaslighting.

People posting in this very thread that abuse isn't real are gaslighting. I've already spent hours debating Gators and their gaslighting and gish gallop shit, I'm not going to entertain gaslighting in the DestinyERA community at all.

The word predates the internet. By decades. If you don't like the word, too bad, it's an actual word and an actual thing going on. I had to bail out of the damn DestERA discord weeks ago because the toxicity is out of control.

 

[irishonion]

Depends on how you received the ship. If it came from the engram, it should give you dust. Otherwise no dust.

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Oh I see now, thanks a for clarification. I got a ship from the first engram from Tess. It's rather ugly so nice to spend it on a emote or something.

 

[HiredN00bs]

So, even the dawning exotic ships won't break down into bright dust? Just shards right?

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There are two discrete Dawning loot sources, Dawning Engrams from the Eververse, and rewards from the daily gift quest. Items from Eververse will always produce Bright Dust when dismantled. Items from anywhere else do not. There are shaders with the same name and appearance in both tables. If you got an Exotic Ghost, Ship, or Sparrow, then it came from Eververse and will produce Bright Dust when dismantled.

I'm not sure if there's a way to determine which shader came from which table, but it's safe to bet the smaller stack is from Eververse if you haven't bought any engrams from there and you've been doing the gift quests.

 

[edgefusion]

Gaslighting has a fixed definition.

Someone sending employees messages that they didn't actually work hard on their content after publically talking about how much work they put into parts of Osiris is gaslighting.

People posting in this very thread that abuse isn't real are gaslighting. I've already spent hours debating Gators and their gaslighting and gish gallop shit, I'm not going to entertain gaslighting in the DestinyERA community at all.

The word predates the internet. By decades. If you don't like the word, too bad, it's an actual word and an actual thing going on. I had to bail out of the damn DestERA discord weeks ago because the toxicity is out of control.

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I am aware of the definition of gaslighting, which is why I roll my eyes so hard when people consistently and regularly use it wrong. From Wikipedia:

"Gaslighting is a form of manipulation that seeks to sow seeds of doubt in a targeted individual or in members of a targeted group, hoping to make them question their own memory, perception, and sanity. Using persistent denial, misdirection, contradiction, and lying, it attempts to destabilise the target and delegitimise the target's belief.

Instances may range from the denial by an abuser that previous abusive incidents ever occurred up to the staging of bizarre events by the abuser with the intention of disorienting the victim."

Literally nobody is doing this. Nobody is making Bungie employees doubt their memories, perception or sanity. Nobody is covering up past events to fool Bungie. It is ridiculous to suggest they are. Saying, "I don't like this feature, you're wrong for implementing it." is not gaslighting, it's disagreeing. Sending abusive messages to Bungie employees is not gaslighting, it's being a dick. Gaslighting is systematic, psychological manipulation to make someone believe an untruth; that is simply not happening.

I agree toxicity has been out of control in the last few weeks/months, especially on the Destiny subreddit and I feel bad for the honest developers at Bungie who have to watch people disparage their game so vehemently. But it is not gaslighting. It is plain and simply not the right usage of the word and it drives me crazy to see so many people equate it with 'being mean'.

 

[Nicodemic]

Hey! Is there a recommended list for Masterworks mods on weapon classes?

 

[Deleted member 2171]

I had a rare moment today... I was actually genuinely excited to get an exotic. Turned in an exotic engram and Saint-14 popped up on my screen. Actually let out an audible "Yes!". Felt like a D1 moment.

I know Ward is a joke in D2, but the exotic was so good and I wore it so much in D1 that it's still a joy to have it back.

Even if they can never give Ward its buffs back, literally all they have to do to get me to use it more is to add that extra fifteen seconds to it that the Bastion perk did in D1. Thirty second bubbles SUCK. They're in then they're right back out again. Let my bubble LIVE, DAMMIT!

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Saint 14 was my jam in D1. It was pretty much welded to my Titan's head after getting it, because I was Defender 24/7. Even my first Mercury run in D1 was as a Defender.

And yeah, I wish the Bubble lasted longer, especially since it doesn't have it's WoL/BoL anymore.

 

[-PXG-]

Devs don't wanna be threatened or treated like shit. But consumers don't wanna be jerked around and nickle and dimed either. Respect is a two way street. Don't treat folks like a sucker or a meal ticket and make good on your promises if you don't want people being angry. This is the real world. People want reasonable outcomes for things they pay for. At this point, especially after three years, it's time to cut the bureaucratic, corporate bullshit. Be honest, be straight forward and work together to make the game as good as it should be.

 

[Kadey]

Rapture tastes so sweet. New tv hype.

 

[Van Bur3n]

Devs don't wanna be threatened or treated like shit. But consumers don't wanna be jerked around and nickle and dimed either. Respect is a two way street. Don't treat folks like a sucker or a meal ticket and make good on your promises if you don't want people being angry. This is the real world. People want reasonable outcomes for things they pay for. At this point, especially after three years, it's time to cut the bureaucratic, corporate bullshit. Be honest, be straight forward and work together to make the game as good as it should be.

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Indeed. The community will stop being toxic when Bungo stops being a toxic developer. Put themselves in our shoes. Show some empathy.

 

[Dalek]

Hey! Is there a recommended list for Masterworks mods on weapon classes?

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I'd like to know this too.

 

[demi]

Hey! Is there a recommended list for Masterworks mods on weapon classes?

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I think it just depends on the gun, and how you plan on using it. But to me the masterwork increase is so minimal I doubt it will change how the gun acts.

 

[RedlineRonin]

Haven't been following the thread since dawning started. Wtf is goin on with voidlocks in this mayhem mode? These dudes are supering every three seconds

 

[Akita One]

Devs don't wanna be threatened or treated like shit. But consumers don't wanna be jerked around and nickle and dimed either. Respect is a two way street. Don't treat folks like a sucker or a meal ticket and make good on your promises if you don't want people being angry. This is the real world. People want reasonable outcomes for things they pay for. At this point, especially after three years, it's time to cut the bureaucratic, corporate bullshit. Be honest, be straight forward and work together to make the game as good as it should be.

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Indeed. The community will stop being toxic when Bungo stops being a toxic developer. Put themselves in our shoes. Show some empathy.

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Here is the problem with this: many people believe Destiny 2 is a great game and that Bungie is doing an outstanding job. To use this justification for being toxic is acting like your feelings is a fact. To say Bungie is a toxic developer is the very definition of gamers being toxic. Don't see how Bungie is treating anyone like a sucker...they might not have done as good of a job as they should have on some issues, but people are disappointed with products they buy all the time.

 

[demi]

Haven't been following the thread since dawning started. Wtf is goin on with voidlocks in this mayhem mode? These dudes are supering every three seconds

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Glitch that gives infinite supers

AAA developer btw esports ready btw kappa b

 

[Not Spaceghost]

I'd like to know this too.

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It's mostly something worth doing on the guns you enjoy using. But I guess it's a safe bet on any "meta" weapon like the following:

Hand cannons: Better Devils, Nature of the beast, Old Fashioned.
Auto Rifles: Uriels, Positive Outlook, Origin Story, Ghost Primus.
Scout Rifles: Mananan, Nameless Midnight, Conspiracy.
Pulse Rifles: Timeworn spire, the verse 8 pulse.
Sidearms: Last Hope
Shotguns: Perfect Paradox, hawthorns, baligant.
SMGs: Mob justice, Atalanta D, Antiope D.
Snipers: lol
Rockets: Sins of the past, curtain call.
Swords: It stared back, double edged answer, class swords.

 

[Lord Brady]

Why is Bungie putting quest items in our inventory? Wasnt it year 2 that Destiny 1 fixed this?

 

[RedlineRonin]

Glitch that gives infinite supers

AAA developer btw esports ready btw kappa b

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Bummer

That was actually a pretty fun mode esp because I generally don't like pvp. But it's not much fun if there's two or three of those guys in there. Also it's like an auditory assault and genuinely exhausting to listen to.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Here is the problem with this: many people believe Destiny 2 is a great game and that Bungie is doing an outstanding job. To use this justification for being toxic is acting like your feelings is a fact. To say Bungie is a toxic developer is the very definition of gamers being toxic. Don't see how Bungie is treating anyone like a sucker...they might not have done as good of a job as they should have on some issues, but people are disappointed with products they buy all the time.

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I'm cool with people really enjoying their time with Destiny 2,but also Bungie knowingly and intentionally lied to its playerbase (you, me, everyone else) with the XP fiasco.

Bungie certainly has made some extremely anti-consumer choices that in my opinion are toxic. The worst part for me is that they weren't honest about it and it HAD to be intentional. When they got caught, they didn't even own up to what they were actually doing.

The whole chain of events was something I would argue is quite toxic and at the very least egregiously dishonest. It's Bungie treating their customers like they are idiots and it's absolutely treating anyone playing Destiny 2 like a sucker.

It's weird because they make this great combat system but then throw all of this kinda sinister stuff into their game for whatever reason and act like nothing is wrong.

Go ahead and enjoy destiny 2. I'm sure a lot of people will continue to enjoy the game, that's fine. Don't just hand wave away criticisms either though. I don't know how some of the stuff they are doing is defensible. Having a shitty microtransaction model is one thing (they are on their way there, in my opinion) while knowingly lying to your entire user base is a much larger red flag in my opinion.

 

[Will The Thrill]

Why is Bungie putting quest items in our inventory? Wasnt it year 2 that Destiny 1 fixed this?

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Yeah, but for whatever reason that feature was not in Destiny 2. I don't think they've even talked about bringing it back? Like I understand some of the year 3 stuff not being in, but not having that tab/the quest log in D2 when it came out with Taken King was suuuuper disappointing.

 

[-PXG-]

Here is the problem with this: many people believe Destiny 2 is a great game and that Bungie is doing an outstanding job. To use this justification for being toxic is acting like your feelings is a fact. To say Bungie is a toxic developer is the very definition of gamers being toxic. Don't see how Bungie is treating anyone like a sucker...they might not have done as good of a job as they should have on some issues, but people are disappointed with products they buy all the time.

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Putting a large chunk of new loot behind Eververse and releasing new content that isn't properly tested and breaks the game even further, constitutes as treating the player base poorly. And even when people give honest, sincere, polite feedback, nothing happens. Eventually, people are going to be angry and rightfully so.

 

[Hollywood Hitman]

Some of these glitchers are so bad, glitching and still garbage. I tried it to mess with it and I couldn't get it to work but I haven't needed it, still topping the matches 20 to 30 kills either char of mine I use

 

[SneakersSO]

Here is the problem with this: many people believe Destiny 2 is a great game and that Bungie is doing an outstanding job. To use this justification for being toxic is acting like your feelings is a fact. To say Bungie is a toxic developer is the very definition of gamers being toxic. Don't see how Bungie is treating anyone like a sucker...they might not have done as good of a job as they should have on some issues, but people are disappointed with products they buy all the time.

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Saying Bungie is a toxic developer is the definition of toxic gamers? Really?

And how many people have to enjoy D2 versus how many people are displeased with it until the changes are okay? No thing that is reviled is universal. For example, there are a not-insignificant number of people who are very happy & supportive of the Trump presidency. You can find a multitude of this example, btw. Just because a number of people are happy with a certain thing doesn't make that thing good, nor does it negate the very real parallels with an experience way more people enjoyed by comparison (Destiny 1). Just because some people enjoy it doesn't mean its okay & immune to criticism.

Don't see how Bungie is treating anyone like a sucker - you're telling me that both the way they implemented XP throttling nor the non-apology handwaving of it to be them treating their consumer base as 'suckers'? Thats a singular example btw - there are tons of examples of this, from taking away content or systems that were available to all in D1 & locking them behind $20 paywalls this time around, to seemingly taking all cosmetic rewards for high-tier content away & locking them behind MTX loot boxes. There are plenty more.

Acting like the willful decisions made for D2 is anything but having a lesser-view of the audience they wish to serve with it is completely disconnected from reality, and sitting there & saying the consumers are the ones who are entitled for pointing it out is completely mesmerizing.

 

[Akita One]

I'm cool with people really enjoying their time with Destiny 2,but also Bungie knowingly and intentionally lied to its playerbase (you, me, everyone else) with the XP fiasco.

Bungie certainly has made some extremely anti-consumer choices that in my opinion are toxic. The worst part for me is that they weren't honest about it and it HAD to be intentional. When they got caught, they didn't even own up to what they were actually doing.

The whole chain of events was something I would argue is quite toxic and at the very least one egregiously dishonest.

It's weird because they make this great combat system but then throw all of this kinda sinister stuff into their game for whatever reason and act like nothing is wrong.

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No, toxic is a word when someone is vilifying you or condemning you on a personal level. They made business decisions you didn't like, that is common in their industry. The have done nothing to show they hate you or want bad things to happen to you or that you are less of a person. If you take that as a personal attack or as a another else other than a bad decision or poor execution, then maybe you need to take a step back from this game and developer.

Most people don't even know what the XP fiasco was, or don't care because it didn't affect how they play the game. Again, everyone is free to express their issues, but let's not act like opinions are universal fact.
For me personally, I got to level 20 insanely fast (before I even finished half the campaign) and to level 25 really fast. I've never been concerned with xp outside of that.

But I agree they should have been more upfront and not try to hide xp from anyone. Why must we try to escalate it more than that...a dev that did something disappointing?

 

[Niceguydan8]

But I agree they should have been more upfront and not try to hide xp from anyone. Why must we try to escalate it more than that...a dev that did something disappointing?

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For me, it's all about intent. Battlefront 2 has an awful monetization model and I fundamentally disagree with its implementation. However, it's honest and up front about what it is. It was mentioned by reviewers and has been mentioned and criticized by users as well.

Destiny 2s throttling was implemented in a way that was inherently dishonest. Bungie actively lied to anyone and everyone that was playing their game. They were showing XP values that could have been 96% higher than values actually being recorded. The way it was implemented wasn't a bug or some unintentional design choice.

The intent of the system was to deceive players. It's beyond being "disappointing" to me. It's blatantly dishonest and I think just saying it's a disappointing action is not enough. They intentionally lied to their playerbase and I think that's unacceptable. That's probably one of the worst actions a developer can take on their playerbase. To me, that's absolutely toxic.

 

[Akita One]

Saying Bungie is a toxic developer is the definition of toxic gamers? Really?

And how many people have to enjoy D2 versus how many people are displeased with it until the changes are okay? No thing that is reviled is universal. For example, there are a not-insignificant number of people who are very happy & supportive of the Trump presidency. You can find a multitude of this example, btw. Just because a number of people are happy with a certain thing doesn't make that thing good, nor does it negate the very real parallels with an experience way more people enjoyed by comparison (Destiny 1). Just because some people enjoy it doesn't mean its okay & immune to criticism.

Don't see how Bungie is treating anyone like a sucker - you're telling me that both the way they implemented XP throttling nor the non-apology handwaving of it to be them treating their consumer base as 'suckers'? Thats a singular example btw - there are tons of examples of this, from taking away content or systems that were available to all in D1 & locking them behind $20 paywalls this time around, to seemingly taking all cosmetic rewards for high-tier content away & locking them behind MTX loot boxes. There are plenty more.

Acting like the willful decisions made for D2 is anything but having a lesser-view of the audience they wish to serve with it is completely disconnected from reality, and sitting there & saying the consumers are the ones who are entitled for pointing it out is completely mesmerizing.

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There is literally no one here that is saying anything remotely like you are claiming I or others have said. And comparing Destiny 2 to politics? Really? When did I say not to criticize the game? That doesn't give you a license to say whatever you want!

The numbers don't lie...it outsold Destiny 1 and in November was the #6 game. I haven't seen a player drop off and at nights it takes time to get into The Tower because of how busy it is. Anecdotally, more people are being added to my clan almost everyday and my friend's are often playing and asking me to buy an PS4/X1 to play with them.

Of everything you listed, the xp thing is the only thing I feel they have done wrong. Everything else are things D1 vets want in D2...which is fine! Please express what you feel should be fixed. But the people that dislike the game are the vocal minority...otherwise this game would be Battleborn or Lawbreakers as far as game population. Look at the people in this thread that are still playing despite criticizing the game heavily.

 

[Will The Thrill]

Putting a large chunk of new loot behind Eververse and releasing new content that isn't properly tested and breaks the game even further, constitutes as treating the player base poorly. And even when people give honest, sincere, polite feedback, nothing happens. Eventually, people are going to be angry and rightfully so.

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I'm definitely one of those people, I've been fine with a lot of the game since launch, obviously a lot of the issues have been bugging me but I was still having a lot of fun with the game itself. Now that it's been a month since they released that seemingly sincere podcast, and there appears to be just as little communication as there was before it. I'm just getting more bummed out by the game every day, The Masterwork system is cool and good addition to the game. But it just isn't enough, as well as the fact they still aren't communicating in the way they need to be with this player base.

It just all adds up, The Dawning event being so half baked and focused on microtransactions. Meanwhile other games seemingly blow D2's attempt at a Christmas event out of the water. The amount of glitches/exploits getting put into the game that take longer than they should to get fixed ect. I really do hope they get all the improvements already made to D1 in this, then start adding newer stuff. But it's just kind of crazy that D2 is basically having the same story/life that D1 had. Obviously D2 vanilla is way better in a lot of ways than D1 vanilla, but at this point it doesn't matter, we/people rightfully expected more from this franchise.

 

[Akita One]

For me, it's all about intent. Battlefront 2 has an awful monetization model and I fundamentally disagree with its implementation. However, it's honest and up front about what it is. It was mentioned by reviewers and has been mentioned and criticized by users as well.

Destiny 2s throttling was implemented in a way that was inherently dishonest. Bungie actively lied to anyone and everyone that was playing their game. They were showing XP values that could have been 96% higher than values actually being recorded. The way it was implemented wasn't a bug or some unintentional design choice.

The intent of the system was to deceive players. It's beyond being "disappointing" to me. It's blatantly dishonest and I think just saying it's a disappointing action is not enough. That's probably one of the worst actions a developer can take on their playerbase. To me, that's absolutely toxic.

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So because Bungie limited XP, people should be able to say anything they want about Bungie and its devs and employees no matter what level of attack it is? Aren't you exaggerating the importance of xp in this game?

 

[Nicodemic]

It's mostly something worth doing on the guns you enjoy using. But I guess it's a safe bet on any "meta" weapon like the following:

Hand cannons: Better Devils, Nature of the beast, Old Fashioned.
Auto Rifles: Uriels, Positive Outlook, Origin Story, Ghost Primus.
Scout Rifles: Mananan, Nameless Midnight, Conspiracy.
Pulse Rifles: Timeworn spire, the verse 8 pulse.
Sidearms: Last Hope
Shotguns: Perfect Paradox, hawthorns, baligant.
SMGs: Mob justice, Atalanta D, Antiope D.
Snipers: lol
Rockets: Sins of the past, curtain call.
Swords: It stared back, double edged answer, class swords.

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Thanks for the list, always useful but I meant what mods should be applied. For exemple, I'm guessing range mod for handcannons would be best?

 

[GringoSuave89]

So because Bungie limited XP, people should be able to say anything they want about Bungie and its devs and employees no matter what level of attack it is? Aren't you exaggerating the importance of xp in this game?

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When it was done in service of microtransactions? Not really.

 

[Niceguydan8]

So because Bungie limited XP, people should be able to say anything they want about Bungie and its devs and employees no matter what level of attack it is? Aren't you exaggerating the importance of xp in this game?

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I think you're missing the point.

I don't care about xp. I do care about Bungie making design decisions that are knowingly dishonest towards their playerbase. It's not them "limiting xp." it's them lying to everyone. The reviewers, the community, the streamers, and everyone else.

I never said people should be able to say what they want to Bungie. I never implied that. I'm not excusing toxic assholes in the community. I'm also not excusing Bungie for making anti consumer decisions. They need to earn my trust back and so far, they haven't. To each his own, but in my opinion there's no excuse for them to do what they did.

If it took a couple months for the XP stuff to come to light (even though people knew of it before), what's stopping them from continuing that line of design?

Since I'm not well versed in who made those decisions, I can't point my finger at any individual (not that I'd want to anyways) but rather at the company itself.

 

[Akita One]

I think you're missing the point.

I don't care about xp. I do care about Bungie making design decisions that are knowingly dishonest towards their playerbase. It's not them "limiting xp." it's them lying to everyone. The reviewers, the community, the streamers, and everyone else.

I never said people should be able to say what they want to Bungie. I never implied that. I'm not excusing toxic assholes in the community. I'm also not excusing Bungie for making anti consumer decisions. They need to earn my trust back and so far, they haven't. To each his own, but in my opinion there's no excuse for them to do what they did.

If it took a couple months for the XP stuff to come to light (even though people knew of it before), what's stopping them from continuing that line of design?

Since I'm not well versed in who made those decisions, I can only point my finger at the company itself.

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I agree with all that, but none of that makes them toxic or trying to hurt people personally. No one is saying Bungie should be excused for anything, but it should be done in a civil fashion. They have done nothing to justify toxic attacks on their employees (not saying you have done this). Even worse, the same people that say they are toxic and start the name calling are still playing the game.

 

[Vimes]

For me, it's all about intent. Battlefront 2 has an awful monetization model and I fundamentally disagree with its implementation. However, it's honest and up front about what it is. It was mentioned by reviewers and has been mentioned and criticized by users as well.

Destiny 2s throttling was implemented in a way that was inherently dishonest. Bungie actively lied to anyone and everyone that was playing their game. They were showing XP values that could have been 96% higher than values actually being recorded. The way it was implemented wasn't a bug or some unintentional design choice.

The intent of the system was to deceive players. It's beyond being "disappointing" to me. It's blatantly dishonest and I think just saying it's a disappointing action is not enough. They intentionally lied to their playerbase and I think that's unacceptable. That's probably one of the worst actions a developer can take on their playerbase. To me, that's absolutely toxic.

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Building off this point, the original Eververse debut in D1 was launched a month after all the glowing reviews for TTK had poured in. It felt like a total gotcha.

I've been pretty forgiving of most of Bungie's missteps over the course of this franchise, but there's been a clear pattern of microtransactions and dishonesty going hand in hand.

 

[Deleted member 4044]

The biggest issue I have with Destiny 2 is that the PvE weapon loadout system was ruined for two reasons:

1) Everything has to be exactly the same across PvE and PvP
2) They really wanted the PvP to be an e-Sport

Well, now we have nobody playing the PvP yet we are stuck with the idiotic design decision behind sticking snipers and shotguns and fusion rifles in the power weapon slot. A return to the Destiny 1 loadouts would fix a lot of my complaints about the game. I want to use a sniper rifle to DPS bosses but they are not getting the nod over my Masterwork Sins of the Past.

 

[Digital]

It's mostly something worth doing on the guns you enjoy using. But I guess it's a safe bet on any "meta" weapon like the following:

Hand cannons: Better Devils, Nature of the beast, Old Fashioned.
Auto Rifles: Uriels, Positive Outlook, Origin Story, Ghost Primus.
Scout Rifles: Mananan, Nameless Midnight, Conspiracy.
Pulse Rifles: Timeworn spire, the verse 8 pulse.
Sidearms: Last Hope
Shotguns: Perfect Paradox, hawthorns, baligant.
SMGs: Mob justice, Atalanta D, Antiope D.
Snipers: lol
Rockets: Sins of the past, curtain call.
Swords: It stared back, double edged answer, class swords.

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Nature of the Beast?
Ghost Primus?
Uriels?
Conspirator?
Verse 8 Pulse?
Baligant?
Mob Justice?
Double Edged Answer?

Are we playing the same game?

 

[Amibguous Cad]

I think you're missing the point.

I don't care about xp. I do care about Bungie making design decisions that are knowingly dishonest towards their playerbase. It's not them "limiting xp." it's them lying to everyone. The reviewers, the community, the streamers, and everyone else.

I never said people should be able to say what they want to Bungie. I never implied that. I'm not excusing toxic assholes in the community. I'm also not excusing Bungie for making anti consumer decisions. They need to earn my trust back and so far, they haven't. To each his own, but in my opinion there's no excuse for them to do what they did.

If it took a couple months for the XP stuff to come to light (even though people knew of it before), what's stopping them from continuing that line of design?

Since I'm not well versed in who made those decisions, I can't point my finger at any individual (not that I'd want to anyways) but rather at the company itself.

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Why are you so sure it wasn't a bug?

Lots of games do XP throttling, particularly when repeating content, as is done in Destiny. And Destiny itself does it in a completely transparent way with doubling XP only for your first 3 levels in a week (another way of saying they halve XP after the 3rd level). Even games without microtransactions use them.

They serve some pretty important purposes, most notably that they discourage patterns of play that are unfun but mechanically rewarding. Like, say, farming public events a hundred times over. I have pretty good reason to believe that this was the intent, because the throttling is strongest on repetitive, low end activities, and afaik doesn't even exist on end game content like the raid. It's pretty clearly designed to direct you towards certain less grindy activities if you want to keep gaining experience.

And I know it's a bug, because these common and well-understood principles of reward design only works if the player knows about them. My guess is that the throttling system got introduced at a late date and changing the HUD to reflect those values wound up falling through the cracks.

Given that XP throttling can't have that much of an impact on revenue (how many people are farming enough for it to be an issue?) and the PR nightmare it inevitably became, it's hard to believe that it was intentional.

 

[optimus8936]

The biggest issue I have with Destiny 2 is that the PvE weapon loadout system was ruined for two reasons:

1) Everything has to be exactly the same across PvE and PvP
2) They really wanted the PvP to be an e-Sport

Well, now we have nobody playing the PvP yet we are stuck with the idiotic design decision behind sticking snipers and shotguns and fusion rifles in the power weapon slot. A return to the Destiny 1 loadouts would fix a lot of my complaints about the game. I want to use a sniper rifle to DPS bosses but they are not getting the nod over my Masterwork Sins of the Past.

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I still find it funny when people say Bungie want an esport

Anyone who knows Bungie know they couldn't give a single shit about esports. Wanting the pvp to be more competitive =\= esports.

I also still don't get why people think 2 primaries was done solely for PVP, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[Toli08]

Who's bright idea was it to create a Christmas event and make it all based around micro transactions? Especially after all the backlash EA and Battlefront got for this crap. Even Bungie should of been smart and just stuck everything in the daily gifts. It would of made people feel good and would of given them some positivity.

Instead they decide to be greedy and want to nickle and dime a fanbase that is already at a boiling point. Once I realized that the daily gifts basically give you nothing but garbage ghosts and sparrows, I stopped doing the daily gift grind, which in itself was just a terrible hunt down planet material quest.

Then they also decide to give us new shaders and instead of the shaders from eververse and the daily quest being the same thing. They go and create two slots of the same shader in your inventory. When they fully well know that shader and mod inventory space is limited from the start.

The one good thing they did with this event was give us Mayhem. Which is what the crucible should be. But of course they even mess this up and release it with a game breaking glitch. Good job guys.

this isn't just Bungie but I feel like in general these gaming companies are going to far with all this predatory crap. People work way to hard for their money and when they got home and just want to relax and play the game they bought in peace. They shouldn't have to be pushed to spend even more money on things that should be in the game from the start.

Gamers in general need to start fighting back with their wallets and stop buying these games.

 

[Lord Brady]

The biggest issue I have with Destiny 2 is that the PvE weapon loadout system was ruined for two reasons:

1) Everything has to be exactly the same across PvE and PvP
2) They really wanted the PvP to be an e-Sport

Well, now we have nobody playing the PvP yet we are stuck with the idiotic design decision behind sticking snipers and shotguns and fusion rifles in the power weapon slot. A return to the Destiny 1 loadouts would fix a lot of my complaints about the game. I want to use a sniper rifle to DPS bosses but they are not getting the nod over my Masterwork Sins of the Past.

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This is one of Destiny 2's core problems, that's for sure. Nerfing the shit out of our guardians' loadouts and mobility all for the sake of balancing PVP was a real letdown.

 

[Niceguydan8]

Why are you so sure it wasn't a bug?

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From the XP post after news sites reported on it

"We've seen community discussion around XP gain in Destiny. After reviewing our data, we agree that the system is not performing the way we'd like it to. Today, we'd like to describe what's going on under the hood, and talk about what you can expect going forward when it comes to earning XP in Destiny 2."

Throughout the entire post revolving around throttling does not mention a bug or anything unintentional "under the hood."

Go ahead and throttle XP, I don't really care about that. Let the player know that they were being throttled. They didn't talk about it until news sites reported it, despite people noticing it shortly after release on the subreddit.

There are a ton of good examples of throttling out there, (increasing xp requirements more as people continue to level up a la Overwatch).

I guess I just don't buy the system being bugged if they never mentioned anything remotely close to that when they were explaining the system they had in place.

They never answered why values being displayed were different than values being recorded. They talked about the throttling, but never the value discrepancy.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

From the XP post after news sites reported on it

"We've seen community discussion around XP gain in Destiny. After reviewing our data, we agree that the system is not performing the way we'd like it to. Today, we'd like to describe what's going on under the hood, and talk about what you can expect going forward when it comes to earning XP in Destiny 2."

Throughout the entire post revolving around throttling does not mention a bug or anything unintentional "under the hood."

Go ahead and throttle XP, I don't really care about that. Let the player know that they were being throttled. They didn't talk about it until news sites reported it, despite people noticing it shortly after release on the subreddit.

There are a ton of good examples of throttling out there, (increasing xp requirements more as people continue to level up a la Overwatch).

I guess I just don't buy the system being bugged if they never mentioned anything remotely close to that when they were explaining the system they had in place.

They never answered why values being displayed were different than values being recorded. They talked about the throttling, but never the value discrepancy.

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Sure, but if the narrative is "you're lying to us in order to sell more microtransactions," (whether that's a fair characterization or not) responding "That thing that made us more money was actually a mistake" is a PR fiasco - even if it's true! Which is why I think they decided that their best solution was to not talk about the origin and do away with throttling entirely.

 

[Kyuuji]

I am aware of the definition of gaslighting, which is why I roll my eyes so hard when people consistently and regularly use it wrong.

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[Not Spaceghost]

Nature of the Beast?
Ghost Primus?
Uriels?
Conspirator?
Verse 8 Pulse?
Baligant?
Mob Justice?
Double Edged Answer?

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I wasn't making a list that was just pvp or pve I was just saying all around well liked weapons. Conspirator is a scout with dragonfly that's pretty noteworthy, baligant is great in the crucible, ghost primus is fantastic in PVE, the verse 8 pulse a lot of people seem to love, and double edged answer is a better version of unspoken promise since it has the 3 quick attacks return ammo perk. Mob justice is my personal favorite SMG and nature of the beast is like the only energy hand canon i've had any luck with lol. What's wrong with uriels gift? It's pretty much the most universally loved energy auto rifle.