I'm quoting Square Enix themselves. By all accounts, they game did fine. It sold what they expected. Success to me would mean the higher end of their expectations or surpassing them.
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Daniel Ahmad (ZhugeEX): Final Fantasy 7 Rebirth is underperforming sales wise. Selling about half of what Remake sold in the same timeframe
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I'm quoting Square Enix themselves. By all accounts, they game did fine. It sold what they expected. Success to me would mean the higher end of their expectations or surpassing them.
You'll still get to finish the story with part 3
It's too late to stop now, no matter how much it may sell less than Rebirth it will still have to be made.
They're gonna take out the highwind out of part 3 now though. They calculated it wasn't worth it.
While I don't have much to say about sales numbers, only reason I haven't bought it yet is I've got a few other titles to get through.
To lighten the mood a bit, I know a lot of people will label Rebirth as a JRPG/ Action Adventure game
but what you all don't know is that it's actually dressed as a Rom-Com :P
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEoK-Yo2cig
How are Rom-Coms doing these days sales-wise?
but what you all don't know is that it's actually dressed as a Rom-Com :P
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEoK-Yo2cig
How are Rom-Coms doing these days sales-wise?
I don't think people "don't care" about adventure games, it's just that there's a ceiling of around 5 million sales for anything besides the massive breakouts like Zelda, Horizon, cyberpunk, baldur's gate, Elden ring, ect. Truth is people just don't care about Final Fantasy, and to a slightly lesser extent traditional style JRPGs, in huge numbers anymore.
Sad for sure, but the solution is probably to scale back production and focus on innovation.
Yeah, you literally had the entire JRPG community declaring that XVI was just going to be a one time detour from a cocky MMO director that didn't stay in his lane, and they were going to turn out in droves for Rebirth to crush XVI in order to show SE the true way forward, to the level where they'd send a clear message to never let CBU3 touch a single player mainline ever again and for developers for the genre as a whole to stop abandoning turn based. There were absolutely a lot of people salivating at the thought of this inevitable victory for months prior to Rebirth's release, on this forum and the Reddit communities.
And then that didn't happen the way they thought it would, so now we're watching fans of an entire genre melting down over their expectations crashing into harsh reality, now at the stage of trying to project this outcome onto the rest of the industry, as if Rebirth's performance is somehow everyone else's fault and a sign of a dying industry. Turns out the passion for a AAA JRPG ass JRPG wasn't enough to overcome the numerous (unique combination of) factors pushing away everyone else, from the confused marketing over it being a remake or not along with all the multimedia baggage on top of that, people who fell off after Remake, and people who did enjoy Remake not willing to spend $600 to buy a PS5 just to play Rebirth if they didn't have one already.
Oh that is without a doubt.
The question is, what will the quality of the game be like?
Scaled back due to reduced budget? Or everything still going ahead as it should, and we'll get a content rich game that will be created as it was intended before sales news and company shifts happened?
The 7 Trilogy will get the full treatment. However, I imagine the sales performance will definitely affect their "Remake" strategy going forward with other notable titles.
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Definitely feels like this at times, it was definitely weird seeing that kind of discourse for months after XVI's release. This reaction to Rebirth is bonkers though.
Ultimately Square isn't going to stop making high end Final Fantasies. They are just going to change their release strategy. Its fair to say a good chunk of the prospective FF audience is on PC, and in Japan, they are on the Switch, so I expect S-E to adapt to that, especially when the new Switch comes out. They aren't going to abandon Sony either.
I also do not expect the remakes or games like Octopath Traveler 2 to stop. You have to have something in between your tentpole releases, and you need smaller games for your younger developers to get experience. Honestly I expect Square to go back to what they were in the 90s, more akin to the PS1 days.
I also do not expect the remakes or games like Octopath Traveler 2 to stop. You have to have something in between your tentpole releases, and you need smaller games for your younger developers to get experience. Honestly I expect Square to go back to what they were in the 90s, more akin to the PS1 days.
Vagrant Story came out 24 years ago and didn't sell all that well. That ship has sailed a long time ago. 🤪
It's late-stage memberberries addiction, which is understandable of course with Rebirth being a game bursting at the seams from memberberries 🫐
The Final Fantasy brand dying might be a good thing long term. As a fan of the franchise it's such an unknowable beast drowning in baggage and lack of identity since X. At this point it's a series of varying ARPGs with similar iconography that ends with the party killing god with the power of friendship. The ties that bound the games are looser than they've ever been, and the weight of expectations on the brand seems to be more damaging for the games than helping.
Amen. Lightning and noctis join forces. The masses have spoken sorry era keep ya Clive and cloud
Honestly, a revised version of FFXV that didn't require me to look up video essays in order to understand the story would actually be in pretty stiff competition with FFVII/Remake/Rebirth as my favorite, lol.
So many great moments in a heavily flawed, yet still wonderful game.
I mean the sales collapse is stark. XV and Remake both hit 700k+ physical launch weeks in Japan, while 16 didn't hit a half that, and now Remake opened at 1/3 of the XV/Remake numbers and still hasn't gotten to 16's launch number in 7 weeks.
It might take 10-11 weeks for Rebirth to hit 16's launch sales number.
There's a lot that goes into a collapse like that, I'm just saying if you piece together the various factors (PS5 exclusivity being the biggest issue), you can lose thousands of players for each reason.
Knowing that the game was split in 3 was also problematic; it made selling the middle one a fair bit tougher like in any trilogy where the middle part doesn't reach a satisfying conclusion.
Fair point. I actually think FF will probably be stronger in the long run.
All it takes is Square learning its lesson here (Visions of Mana, DQ 3 2D-HD, DQ 12) with the next set of big releases getting Switch 2 iterations, and things can get back to track.
FF17 can easily get back to 500k+ launch expectations with the right positioning (a return to form).
FF7's 3rd game should also be an easier sell as the "conclusion" game, though I do hope that they put Remake/Rebirth on Switch 2 before that comes out.
At some level, you have to go where the gamers are. In Japan, it's become a nearly monopolized Nintendo market, that's what the software sales say anyway.
Cheers for the responses.
I've been seeing so much glowing praising for the story & character work in Rebirth that I was starting to wonder if they'd somehow deftly handled this, but it seems it's just not something most people care about? Personally it's the number one thing that completely takes me out of a story. I'm sure there are some good character moments in Rebirth, but if the characters stop acting believable in order to move past plot points, it's definitely not for me.
I can't say I'm surprised. I'd figured there was basically no chance they actually address any of this since playing Remake, but it's still disappointing to hear. Any last shred of interest I had in trying Rebirth is gone, lol.
It's a shame that a great game with a classic 90s videogame ethos but brought into 2024 AAA production values isn't doing well. I think that's all there is to it. It means less people are playing a great game and it means we might not get games like this going forward.
The whole 7 Remake should have been 2 games. The majority of Rebirth is filler.
While
I'm having fun with Rebirth I feel like I barely Interact with the story because I'm once again playing another mini game or hunting down an icon for Lord Chadley.
Hopefully all this will get Square to make FF7R 3 a much tighter experience.
While
I'm having fun with Rebirth I feel like I barely Interact with the story because I'm once again playing another mini game or hunting down an icon for Lord Chadley.
Hopefully all this will get Square to make FF7R 3 a much tighter experience.
The character work in Rebirth is basically nailing the characters personality quirks, and giving them fun moments that endear people to them. They 100% nailed this part.
When it comes to how they act during story moments however, they're dumb as rocks at times, letting villains who are standing right there literally walk away because.. reasons, and that's not to mention the characters not reacting at all during moments they definitely should.
Truth be told, it's the characters that are hard carrying the game, not the actual story itself. That shits itself by the end, but that is just my personal take on it. Others liked what they did with it...
The litmus test to whether a 500k+ (physical) opener for a PS5 game in Japan is still possible would be Monster Hunter Wilds. If that game can't then no one can, except maybe Dragon Quest XII whenever that arrives.
We also never had people talking like this to defend FFXII until about a decade later.
They could have gotten MUCH further than Midgar in Part 1 in the first place and trimmed the fat of both games and been done with it with this release. I do also think if they marketed it hard Part 1 and Part 2 that it would've gone a long way for getting people to opt into the full experience.
Weird gotchas going on here but i'll bite so you can have your 🤣🥲🤪.
It's a game important to me on a personal level because of stuff it portrays on mental health. It's a world where I wanna spend time in more then anywhere else and hit emotions I haven't felt hit since I was a kid. And I consume a lot of media.
Fine that that is funny to you, it's not like FF7 is some kind of hellhol full of gacha and other stuff like for example Fifa. It's a game with tons of content in a packaged deal without any other added payment
I think games like this, or Alan Awake 2, or Dead Space Remake should be celebrated. That they don't sell, yes, that is weird and sad to me cause i don't trust companies taking the right lessons from it, see Dead Space 2 Remake which seemingly is cancelled now.
But people too busy with their gotchas and stuff and their funnies.
uhhh
(newly reinvigorated by the TV show)
And that's not to dismiss the success of other games that are growing in success like the Like a Dragon series, Metroid is more popular than ever, etc.
FF isn't like a colossal giant anymore, but games don't need to have the ridiculous budgets they're being allotted. Square themselves have had success with their HD2D games for example, which can afford to be more experimental because they reign the budget in a bit.
I mean I definitely understand being concerned about more and more games having gambling and gacha mechanics, but also I feel that there is plenty to play in the same or similar genres, all without any microtransactions, as I posted above.
Game companies are way overspending on their budgets, and I think that's coming to bite them in the ass when you have great games like FF Rebirth selling, like, over a million copies, and people freaking out that it was a massive failure. Meanwhile indies and AA budget games hit a million and its celebrated.
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Since Rebirth seems to have not done too well, maybe Part 3 should be a pure Cloud action game in the FFXVI engine where they just wrap the story up and string it together with a few actions stages and epic Weapon fights.
What do y'all think? Imagine Super Saiyan Cloud going all Omnislash on Diamond Weapon in an epic QTE sequence.
What do y'all think? Imagine Super Saiyan Cloud going all Omnislash on Diamond Weapon in an epic QTE sequence.
Those aren't mutually exclusive. The game is chock full of wonderful character moments (a lot of them due to the very smart decision to tie every single side quest to one of the party members so you get extra bonding them with them) but they're still going to behave strangely during key story sequences. Like it or not, the game's original story and the new story both require a healthy amount of suspension of disbelief.
Ow for sure and I played the games you mentioned and even rate Elden Ring and BG3 one of my favorite games ever. But still didn't hit my personally as hard as Rebirth
Sometimes you just root for a game to do well not only critically but also financially. This for me is such a game
You've basically come into this thread and thrown insults at FF7 fans and are then asking "why you mad?"
Look inward, friend.
I really wonder if the consolidation happening there right now just leads to some of these FF teams creating new entries in the franchise that are practically defined by the team making them, and each team working out it's own style. It's funny to think about, but I see what happens with a franchise like Call of Duty, where the fan base is sorta segmented based on their preferred developer, and the devs being the main distinction. FF having something similar happen to it would be interesting, as it could end up setting expectations within the current FF fanbase(i.e CBUI making games that grow off of Remake/Rebirth, CBU3 making single player FF games that grow off of XVI), and maybe make it more digestible for new fans since they'll have a better understanding of what kind of game they're getting into(This is a CBUI type game, or this is a CBUIII type game). It sounds odd to think of FF being segmented like that, and it sounds more problematic as it would essentially segment an already strugglying fanbase, but I gotta wonder if a strategy like that would, overtime, end up helping long term in solidifying an identity for the franchise. Like i'm even seeing something similar happen with the Yakuza series where now we have fans of the turn based games, and classic fans of the action based ones. Just a thought, but it is one i've thought about for a minute now.
User banned (3 days): Trolling over multiple posts
You don't understand how much I'm enjoying this. But it's not fair to say I'm insulting FF7 fans. I'm making fun of one very specific person who knows he is off the rails, and at the same time I'm insulting FF7 Rebirth here and there. If people take offense to a game being mocked, that's on them.
Love,
Vagrant Story and FFXII fan
I do think it's really bizarre and kind of ridiculous.
Final Fantasy XIV is their cash cow MMO, and that skyrocketed in popularity during the Pandemic. A lot of XIV players aren't even familiar with the series outside of XIV and now you've pulled in a bunch more. CBU3 is their most popular dev team, a lot of players vibe with them and would support future work if it's accessible. Now, that same dev team is behind that new mainline game, FFXVI, but the platforms that the majority of the XIV playerbase are on can't even access the game. Then, a half year later, another mainline entry releases, and not even that game is available on those platforms. Infact, they've so poorly conveyed that the prequel, Remake, isn't even Epic exclusive anymore, that there are people I've recently talked to that don't know the game is on Steam or was confused as to what Integrade even meant in regards to Remake.
Now they're attempting to build a base through XIV on a platform that hasn't received any of the last three mainline titles and where the chance of receiving a spinoff or a non FF game is a coin flip. There's no communication, as for example, Octopath 2 was announced for Xbox months after it released for Switch/PS/Steam despite the first game being on Xbox, with a release date for "Early Spring." We're walking out of Q1 without a word.
How in the world do they expect to build trust, build their playerbase, and retain players with plays like these? Quality control is only one piece of the puzzle and isn't going to magically solve all their issues.
Final Fantasy XIV is their cash cow MMO, and that skyrocketed in popularity during the Pandemic. A lot of XIV players aren't even familiar with the series outside of XIV and now you've pulled in a bunch more. CBU3 is their most popular dev team, a lot of players vibe with them and would support future work if it's accessible. Now, that same dev team is behind that new mainline game, FFXVI, but the platforms that the majority of the XIV playerbase are on can't even access the game. Then, a half year later, another mainline entry releases, and not even that game is available on those platforms. Infact, they've so poorly conveyed that the prequel, Remake, isn't even Epic exclusive anymore, that there are people I've recently talked to that don't know the game is on Steam or was confused as to what Integrade even meant in regards to Remake.
Now they're attempting to build a base through XIV on a platform that hasn't received any of the last three mainline titles and where the chance of receiving a spinoff or a non FF game is a coin flip. There's no communication, as for example, Octopath 2 was announced for Xbox months after it released for Switch/PS/Steam despite the first game being on Xbox, with a release date for "Early Spring." We're walking out of Q1 without a word.
How in the world do they expect to build trust, build their playerbase, and retain players with plays like these? Quality control is only one piece of the puzzle and isn't going to magically solve all their issues.
Hell, I'd argue that Final Fantasy has lacked that "adventure" feeling for a while now. A part of adventure is discovery, and each of those games you listed put a big emphasis on discovery. XVI was largely a linear experience with little reward for exploration and discovery, and VII Rebirth was gamified and frictionless to the point of there being basically zero immersion into its open world.uhhh
(newly reinvigorated by the TV show)
And that's not to dismiss the success of other games that are growing in success like the Like a Dragon series, Metroid is more popular than ever, etc.
FF isn't like a colossal giant anymore, but games don't need to have the ridiculous budgets they're being allotted. Square themselves have had success with their HD2D games for example, which can afford to be more experimental because they reign the budget in a bit.
I love both XVI and Rebirth, and I think both designs could be iterated on in great ways, but Square needs to find a way to let players make the journey their own a bit because one of the universal aspects of the games you posted is a sense of ownership of the adventure.
I get that. I've been a bit pushy about a few games I've seen that I've really enjoyed, like Penny's Big Breakaway and Freedom Planet 2. That being said, with some posters on here saying it's like a failure on the part of the consumer that they didn't spend $70+ on a luxury product is wild.
One day I'll probably at least play some of Rebirth out of virtue of it allegedly being fking awesome, but it's noones fault but Square's for not creating a more marketable product.
Remake is why I didn't buy Rebirth so I can attest to that at least
It's a cornerstone of good business practices to not blame the customer when a product fails, that much is true.
Is it possible there's some slight burnout on the series? They've released 3 single player titles in 4 years and have an ongoing MMO as well, do they not?
I agree with the linearity of 16, but definitely disagree on Rebirth being immersionless. The side quests have decent writing and I feel that the mini cities amongst the open world hubs are well done. Some of the open world is by the books, but I love the game so I am biased. Haven't finished it yet but 60 hours in and I find the mini games to be delightful, except maybe the 5th moogle hunt.
I think it's time for FF to reboot itself. Shed the numbered entries so a 17th entry doesn't scare people off.
Very weird behavior.
Yeah imo I find it a shame it didn't sell as well but it's on Square to sell them FF7 lol not on gamers if they say nah. they have enough to make it a succes me thinks financially so if it isn't that is always on them.
We will see how it goes at least I get part 3.. And from there, who knows even :')
Sure. Older games have the benefit of simpler graphics providing a layer of abstraction which helps with this a lot for me. There's far less filling in the blanks with modern big budget AAA games, and Rebirth voicing all of those side quests you mentioned while never addressing that one member of the party died and came back to life would eat away at me.
Alrighty then, I can see you've had this animosity built up for quite some time. You enjoy this catharsis then, my friend lol.
Yeah, good point actually. "I already bought one of these things last year, what the hell?"
May not be one of the core reasons why this is failing financially, but little reasons like this can definitely add up.
It's why I argue the next mainline FF needs to go all in on exploration, especially incorporating airship travel as a major part of it too.
XII should have been the future direction of the series as far as exploration and world design went.
I've been in many fandom with some sort of infighting. But Ivalice and CBU3 fans taking revenge on CBU1 fans over sales is a whole new brand of fandom toxicity I wish I stayed ignorant of. (And really weird that it happened twice on Era from at least two different posters the same week)
So just verifying that you are one of those people who enjoys mocking others and making fun of them
while also being the classic case of insulting FF:Now and the people who worked on it because you liked FF:Previous
and the franchise followed a direction from the one you like.
There may be many disappointed people like you but they definitely don't behave like you
Just sad...
Honestly when was it that the fanbase became like this?
Was during the FXIII days? During FFXV?
Or was it always like this?
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