Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,535
His administration has forgiven $167 billion in student loan debt across 4.75 million borrowers, and is actively trying to forgive more.
And those are great! But he promised wider debt relief and I know it's anecdotal but my friends with private loans are still very upset about it. He's gotta mention mechanisms or explain how he can do this on his own without Congress if he wants it to stick. Biden's trustworthiness ratings are bad, and even pretty realistic policies could sound too good to be true if there's not anything more said behind them
 
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Rychu

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,203
Utah, USA
That's my question. He tried to do it for student debt and got told no, why would this be different?
Biden has implied that because Alito and Thomas are both approaching their 80's "it's very likely they both retire within the next four years and the next president will get to select at least two new SCOTUS justices". Which is hilarious given the context and reasoning.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
79,366
Providence, RI
And people want this man to drop out… His administration has already done so much for student loans and medical debt forgiveness could help millions but hey I guess we should drop him because of some mistaken names and old man memes.

I am so tired of this damn gaslighting.

Stop lying about why people want him to step aside. What you just said is a lie.
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,992
We already went down this route with student debt.

Throwing this out there right now is incredibly transparent.
Good call, it's time for presidents to stop announcing policy agendas because the Supreme Court will just stomp them. Remember that next time someone whines about how they need something inspiring to make them want vote for someone, and not just against someone

That and Trump and the GOP have zero policies. Their 2024 GOP platform basically just says: "the biggest deportation operation in history" and "ensure all voting is done on the same day". Everything else in the "agenda" is just vague "making America great again" rhetoric.

Which isn't much of an agenda, so there wasn't much competition.
I mean they do have policies. Rounding up millions of immigrants into camps for deportation is a policy. Levying 100% tariffs on Chinese imports is a policy. Rescinding FDA approval of mifepristone in order to effectively ban 50% of abortions nationwide is a policy.

The idea that Trump and the GOP have no policy proposals is wrong and dangerous. They have a lot of ideas and they're all incredibly bad!
 

NinjaScooter

Member
Oct 25, 2017
56,355
Biden has implied that because Alito and Thomas are both approaching their 80's "it's very likely they both retire within the next four years and the next president will get to select at least two new SCOTUS justices". Which is hilarious given the context and reasoning.

Ironic.gif
 
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Rychu

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,203
Utah, USA
Good call, it's time for presidents to stop announcing policy agendas because the Supreme Court will just stomp them. Remember that next time someone whines about how they need something inspiring to make them want vote for someone, and not just against someone


I mean they do have policies. Rounding up millions of immigrants into camps for deportation is a policy. Levying 100% tariffs on Chinese imports is a policy. Rescinding FDA approval of mifepristone in order to effectively ban 50% of abortions nationwide is a policy.

The idea that Trump and the GOP have no policy proposals is wrong and dangerous. They have a lot of ideas and they're all incredibly bad!
I'm referring to their 2024 GOP Platform to be clear not Project 2025. I'm very aware that Project 2025 is their actual agenda. But their policies and platform that they will be championing at the RNC only has two policies which are: same day voting and banning early voting nationwide, and "the largest deportation operation of illegal immigrants in history".

Republican voters do not think that Project 2025 is a Trump agenda. They think that their agenda is the two things that I have said.
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,582
When he says "end medical debt", is he saying no more medical bills at all?

Or just hitting the reset button on current debt balances?

He also announced plans to allow all us citizens to enroll in the same plan they have offered to seniors a true public option that caps expenses for medicine at a max of $2000 a year and allows the govt to more effectively negotiate lower drug prices for everyone
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,821
And those are great! But he promised wider debt relief and I know it's anecdotal but my friends with private loans are still very upset about it. He's gotta mention mechanisms or explain how he can do this on his own without Congress if he wants it to stick. Biden's trustworthiness ratings are bad, and even pretty realistic policies could sound too good to be true if there's not anything more said behind them
Even if he could only get about as far as he's gotten (at present) with student loan debt and only wiped out medical debt for 4.75 million Americans, that's 4.75 million people whose lives are forever changed for the better.

Is that not sufficient motivation?

Never mind the fact that he's *still* trying to forgive more student loan debt.
 
Sep 14, 2019
3,130
Good idea, but it seems like it's just a shade more realistic than promising all Americans a unicorn, given the supreme court we have.

Maybe so, but I'll take what I can get. Even if there's a 10% possibility that he'll accomplish this, it's better than what Trump would offer.

I, alongside other people, would really appreciate this relief.
 

GardenPepper

Member
Oct 28, 2017
20,478
This is the type of stuff Democrats should be talking about when they campaign. They sometimes fall into the trap of getting too technical. This type of promise is wide-reaching and easy to understand.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,535
And people want this man to drop out… His administration has already done so much for student loans and medical debt forgiveness could help millions but hey I guess we should drop him because of some mistaken names and old man memes.
I love tapping the Jim Himes sign, it's my favorite sign

It's really not about tonight and one of the, really kind of sick aspects of this moment, is that we are watching every speech, every rally, every debate and saying how did he do today

And that's just not the way to think about the Presidency of the United States
...
If you don't look at this in a cold, hard way, you will be complicit in Donald Trump's second presidency.
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,582
While I doubt his actual plans have been detailed as of yet, I imagine it's a combination of reseting current debt while introducing policy aimed at fixing the situation in general.

Glad to finally get more than just "at least I'm not Trump" as a reason to vote for him.

Granted that is a damn good reason...
Yep exactly this see my post above
 

Crossing Eden

Member
Oct 26, 2017
56,453
His administration has forgiven $167 billion in student loan debt across 4.75 million borrowers, and is actively trying to forgive more.
Say it again for the people in the back.

Absolutely no one said he didn't eliminate any student debt.

But 9% of $1.6 trillion is clearly not what he was running on in 2020.
It is far more than anyone thought he'd be able to get forgiven and it's not the end. It's actually quite unprecedented and something that affects millions of younger people in a positive way. You can't go "Well that's only 9%" while ignoring how that's an incredibly impressive accomplishment that's still ongoing mind you. Like you have to actively put your head in the sand and ignore how the US has treated student debt to go "That's only 9% tho."
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,535
Even if he could only get about as far as he's gotten (at present) with student loan debt and only wiped out medical debt for 4.75 million Americans, that's 4.75 million people whose lives are forever changed for the better.

Is that not sufficient motivation?

Never mind the fact that he's *still* trying to forgive more student loan debt.
You're not looking at the framing of that motivation and the previously offered motivation

If he had said "we're going to eliminate as much as we can and we're going to fight and it's going to be hard but I plan on doing X, Y and Z specifically to get as much done as possible" that'd be one thing

But for a lot of disillusioned swing voters who feel they got missed on the first round of "we will fix student loan debt" promises are going to see "we will eliminate all medical debt" as something unattainable. It's fine to introduce this seed now but the messaging on it needs to include specifics to win those disillusioned by the first round of promised debt relief
 
Sep 14, 2019
3,130
This is the type of stuff Democrats should be talking about when they campaign. They sometimes fall into the trap of getting too technical. This type of promise is wide-reaching and easy to understand.

This right here. It's not just "at least he's not Trump" anymore. Now there's an agenda. A plan. Things he wants to accomplish. They should really push for these type of things.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,535
And like I said, these are very effective programs! Probably easier to attain than concessions on student loan debt. But the communication on it needs to take into account that the harder promises came first, and a lot of people still feel left out by those earlier promises
 

Chaos Legion

The Wise Ones
Member
Oct 30, 2017
17,191
Fuck them up, Joe.

That's a really good second term agenda. He's shown what he's able to accomplish legislatively with a narrow majority and Manchin/Sinema.

Biden + House + Senate with Gallego and no Manchin would be phenomenal.
 
Sep 14, 2019
3,130
You're not looking at the framing of that motivation and the previously offered motivation

If he had said "we're going to eliminate as much as we can and we're going to fight and it's going to be hard but I plan on doing X, Y and Z specifically to get as much done as possible" that'd be one thing

See, this is also part of the problem with the left. I get wanting to get technical (you have no idea how much I understand this), but this clearly doesn't sound better than "Eliminate medical debt." He can get technical in his website or something, but something simple like this works when campaigning, and it's what Democrats need.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,535
As a reminder, here's the polling on Biden's handling on student debt relief

9cc9g7A.png


edit: I should include the details that I cut off in the screenshot lol
Results based on interviews with 1,309 U.S. adults conducted May 16-21, 2024 The margin of error is ±3.7 percentage points for the full sample.Source: The Associated Press-NORC Center for Public Affairs Research
 

Blader

Member
Oct 27, 2017
26,992
And those are great! But he promised wider debt relief and I know it's anecdotal but my friends with private loans are still very upset about it. He's gotta mention mechanisms or explain how he can do this on his own without Congress if he wants it to stick. Biden's trustworthiness ratings are bad, and even pretty realistic policies could sound too good to be true if there's not anything more said behind them
Biden never promised to cancel all student debt universally and was pretty open about his skepticism toward cancelling, for instance, debt accrued through grad school. What he specifically promised during the campaign was to cancel 10k of federal student debt — something he did try to deliver on and only didn't because of the court, not because of inaction or lying on his part.

Please don't put words in my mouth. You know damn well that isn't what I said or even implied.

I am responding to this very specific blanket promise, using the results of previous promises.
Yeah I can read. "We went down this road with student debt" yes he made a promise, tried to deliver on it, and when was prevented from doing so he continued chipping away at the problem.

"This is incredibly transparent" you mean a man running for re-election wants to keep building on an existing policy accomplishment to help more people?

Every progressive policy proposal by someone running for office is going to inevitably run into the buzzsaw of either congressional math or conservative court fuckery. That reality doesn't mean we should stop having goals or values. It can't be both "this is so transparent because the court will kill it anyway" and also "Dems suck because they are the party of better things aren't possible"!
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,535
See, this is also part of the problem with the left. I get wanting to get technical (you have no idea how much I understand this), but this clearly doesn't sound better than "Eliminate medical debt." He can get technical in his website or something, but something simple like this works when campaigning, and it's what Democrats need.
That's why the third paragraph that you didn't include said "this is a good seed to plant" and said they need to include specifics if they want this to stick going forward
 

Hellwarden

Member
Oct 25, 2017
35,431
Biden has been pretty successful in helping people with medical debt, though not entirely directly.

Multiple Dem governors are using money from his stimulus programs to cancel medical debt.
 
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Rychu

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,203
Utah, USA
Fuck them up, Joe.

That's a really good second term agenda. He's shown what he's able to accomplish legislatively with a narrow majority and Manchin/Sinema.

Biden + House + Senate with Gallego and no Manchin would be phenomenal.
I don't see a path to the Senate because Tester will lose in MT. Who is the 50th if Tester loses his election in MT? Of course, that's hypothetical but I'm just going based off the polls.
As a reminder, here's the polling on Biden's handling on student debt relief

9cc9g7A.png
I think that's because it's not cancelled for everyone so the people who "strongly disapprove" of his handling are probably upset or feel it's unfair that other people got their debt cancelled but they still have theirs.

I'm sure the people who "strongly approve" are the people who got their student debt cancelled.
 

Embiid

Banned
Feb 20, 2021
7,074
Fuck them up, Joe.

That's a really good second term agenda. He's shown what he's able to accomplish legislatively with a narrow majority and Manchin/Sinema.

Biden + House + Senate with Gallego and no Manchin would be phenomenal.
A dream term if we somehow cop all three. It's crazy to think about how much good shit he'd get done with that power considering what he was able to do while limited over the past 3.5 years.
 

RexNovis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,582
Absolutely no one said he didn't eliminate any student debt.

But 9% of $1.6 trillion is clearly not what he was running on in 2020. And don't misunderstand, I know whose fault that is.

However, when you then make blanket statements like "we're going to end medical debt," it can't and shouldn't be taken at face value.
He also created a new student loan repayment program that's dramatically reducing payments adding more opportunities for forgiveness and shortening the timeline to forgiveness for the vast majority of borrowers. How about you stop trying to minimize something he has been incredibly successful at doing and continues to push harder and harder to forgive more loans for more students every single month.

I am beyond tired of this narrative that people trot out that he has not been an impactful president with meaningful wins for middle and lower class people. Be that changes to labor laws directly contributing to the resurgence of unions, the most comprehensive climate infrastructure bill in the history of the world, installing regulators that are actually putting the pressure back on conglomerates via anti trust enforcement or the student loan reforms he has accomplished a lot and helped millions of people

Edit: and I see how you are accusing others of gaslighting after trying to pitch this nonsense? Pot meet kettle.
 

tsmoreau

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,495
Perfect bein the enemy of good and all that.

I am genuinely surprised folks hear a high ideal platonic rallying cry, watch it be achieved to a meaningful, if not perfect, degree, and claim they were lied to by a charlatan because the platonic ideal was not realized.
 

turtle553

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,646
When he says "end medical debt", is he saying no more medical bills at all?

Or just hitting the reset button on current debt balances?

I took it as it won't show up on credit reports so it won't lower your credit score. It also makes the debt harder to collect if you were worried about hurting your credit. Then you can negotiate a lower value to get rid of it by a debt collector.
 
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Rychu

Rychu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,203
Utah, USA
I took it as it won't show up on credit reports so it won't lower your credit score. It also makes the debt harder to collect if you were worried about hurting your credit. Then you can negotiate a lower value to get rid of it by a debt collector.
He already did that in his first term. It doesn't affect your credit score anymore. For his second term, he is talking about ending medical debt itself, that is made clear both in the wording from his speech and in the tweet itself.
 

Planx

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,535
I don't see a path to the Senate because Tester will lose in MT. Who is the 50th if Tester loses his election in MT? Of course, that's hypothetical but I'm just going based off the polls.

I think that's because it's not cancelled for everyone so the people who "strongly disapprove" of his handling are probably upset or feel it's unfair that other people got their debt cancelled but they still have theirs.

I'm sure the people who "strongly approve" are the people who got their student debt cancelled.
Yeah I interpret the numbers the same way. That's why I think messaging on medical debt needs to be careful to make it stick. Because I genuinely believe it's a much more attainable program based on my state's own success with a similar program. And I don't want it dismissed by swing voters based on the feelings towards the earlier, much more difficult promises around student debt
 

loco

Member
Jan 6, 2021
6,386
Can't wait for the hand off to Kamala. This will be an amazing piece of legislation for her when she gets in there.
 

GYODX

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,821
You're not looking at the framing of that motivation and the previously offered motivation

If he had said "we're going to eliminate as much as we can and we're going to fight and it's going to be hard but I plan on doing X, Y and Z specifically to get as much done as possible" that'd be one thing

But for a lot of disillusioned swing voters who feel they got missed on the first round of "we will fix student loan debt" promises are going to see "we will eliminate all medical debt" as something unattainable. It's fine to introduce this seed now but the messaging on it needs to include specifics to win those disillusioned by the first round of promised debt relief
So we agree that expecting him to drop the nuanced, long-form policy plan in a campaign rally is a ludicrous expectation.
 

Speevy

Member
Oct 26, 2017
21,374
Why doesn't he just make a bunch of announcements of things that will get overruled, but are so difficult to reverse that they just give them to people to avoid the headache?

Like...have the Department of Education change everyone's student loan to $52, and delete all records.
 

Imran

Member
Oct 24, 2017
7,380
Much like his promise to restore Roe, under Biden's vision of governance you can't rock the boat too hard. So you have to assume there's an implied "If I also get all of congress and none of them are conservative democrats and several Supreme Court justices die (the conservative ones only) and I get to replace them, then we can do this."
 

zooj

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
1,058
Ames, IA
He's not doing shit with the current supreme court makeup, he needs to pack the courts even if he needs to resort to legally dubious methods
 

Witness

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,521
New York
As a fortunate recipient of Bidens student loan forgiveness, $55k, I hope he can keep the train rolling to people with debilitating medical debt.
 

Kemal86

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,657
This is never going to happen. If it (somehow) does, it'll be in specific instances like some student loan forgiveness.

nice, so you're saying it will be incredibly transformative for many, many people? changing their lives for the better, opening new opportunities, giving them a pathway out of poverty? good news then!
 

Booshka

Member
May 8, 2018
4,972
Amherst, MA
Campaign promises are so inspiring, really tug at the heart strings. Which are then ripped apart by our corrupted Supreme Court and bought and paid for legislators.