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Chasex

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,696
Not sure 'what getting older' means to all of us..for some it could be hitting 20's or 30s...for some 50s and beyond. Saying that I don't think I have changed. I like games with character progression and story.

For me, rocket league, pug, etc. has little payoff to putting in all that time. There is little social interaction (other than if you play with RL friends) and nothing progresses other than your stats. I guess some of the competition part is cool but again unless you play with real life friends it feels hollow. Its like cell phone games...just today's hotness and soon to be tossed. I play those only on occasion when I need break from 'cinematic' games.

It's very bizarre to me how some of these arguments are framed because it's as if some people have never experienced the joy of winning, or the sense of fulfillment that comes with learning or progressing ones own skills. It has little to do with stats, other than stats being an indicator that you're progressing. Like did you guys play sports? Have you ever experienced the pure elation of trying your hardest at something and succeeding? Because for a lot of us, this is what it means to play multiplayer games and in particular esports.

You say multiplayer games feel hollow, I say the vast majority of single player games feel hollow - progressing fake skills and stats, interacting with NPC's, completing meaningless fictional stories one after the other. That to me is the definition of a throwaway experience. I'd rather progress my own skills, interact and create friendships with real people, and create my own stories through the interactions with the game and the community. I had a real epiphany one day after loading up an Elder Scrolls game, looking at my fully decked out character and completed world map, and realizing it was utterly for nothing, all meaningless and contained within a fictional game world.

I still play single player games once in a blue moon, I just have no pretensions about it being anything but a waste of time that I can hopefully glean some enjoyment from. In the back of my mind, I'm always thinking I could be practicing and learning something else. Occasionally a game will come along (like Nier:Automata for example) where the story has a profound impact on me. And for that I'm grateful and I feel it was worth it. But that's few and far between. If someone is chasing that experience, there are works of literature that could last a lifetime, all FAR superior that what's going on in the latest AAA exclusive like GoW.
 

Slam Tilt

Member
Jan 16, 2018
5,585
Otherwise, stay bothered.
Oh, I'm not bothered in the least. People should play whatever they like. But I thought this thread was for soliciting opinions, so I offered mine. I just admire video gaming as a unique art form, and don't understand why some folks want games to just ape movies when they can be so much more.
 

Yasumi

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,575
Total opposite. I've been devouring many more VNs, JRPGs, manga, and novels than I ever did when I was younger. I used to want more instant gratification, now I live for that slow build-up and payoff.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
I used to value story in games a lot, sometimes even more so than the gameplay itself (admit it, those point and click adventure are not fun to play if not for their story), but I debate whether I should go read a book or watch a movie/TV instead.

I see this comparison often but it never made any sense to me. Those are non interactive,1 speed narratives that are presented in very different ways with different production pipelines.

Its weird enough seeing people act like film and literature are interchangeable, but videogames are even less so, even when they have hours of cutscenes ie. MGS.

Yep. There are so many television shows I want to watch and books I want to read that any time spent suffering through terrible video game stories seems like a waste.

I wish game developers would realize that games are not a storytelling medium and focus on the game part of video games.



Nah, what's really toxic is the average attempt at narrative in most games.

Theres no shortage of gameplay focused games, but its interesting that you think you speak for the industry and everyone who supports the games they like.
 

Fatal

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
586
Open world is the problem. Incoherent stories due to the choppy nature of the story telling, Useless busy work. These games are the enemy of time, and time is the only real currency as you get older.

Give me a Last Of Us or Uncharted any day of the week. New God Of War is tending more to open, but it doesn't feel like a waste of time somehow.
 

Strangelove_77

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
13,392
I need story to direct me to where I'm going. Just a little bit. I just can't play a game just to play it unless it's racing or Tetris.

I think I'm over the whole "the story is only good for a game" mentality. It's just not true anymore. I think it's one of those things people say where if someone shits on something they like then they themselves just shit on everything. Makes it easier to not have your feelings hurt that way.

And people forget just how utterly mediocre 99% of film, tv and modern literature is.
I'd rather watch someone play the first season of Telltale's The Walking Dead than watch the first season of the tv show The Walking Dead. It's way better written and has way better characters.
 
Oct 28, 2017
1,202
Same for me. Most of the games I play nowadays are competitive or heavily gameplay focused. Our experience with Horizon Zero Dawn is almost identical. The setting is perfectly interesting, but I just don't care about who these characters are or what they're fighting for.

There are exceptions of course. My favorite game of last year was The Evil Within 2 and my most anticipated is Red Dead Redemption 2.
 

ghibli99

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,818
Too *much* story or poor pacing can bog things down, but I'll take a game driven by narrative any day over a Fortnite or Rocket League. Can still appreciate those games just the same, but they aren't to my tastes. I'm in my mid-40s, so I don't think age is a significant factor.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
I've always played games for game play not story. Partly back then due to limitations of the Atari/NES/SNES story was non existent or just too simple to bad. I don't think they are really any better today when compared to books/TV/movies. I think games are trying to tell a story like a book or movie but it is much harder in an interactive medium. There is a disconnect there. The story may have the main character be a passive or tentative personality, but then in the game play you slaughter millions of enemies like it's you job, completely breaking the character.

I still love RPG's. I mostly play them for the combat systems and visuals. Most of the time my eyes roll to the back of my head during story sequences. But again, I don't play games for story.
 

Arthands

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
8,039
I get what the topic means. I don't mind story, but I think it will be better if the story is kept minimal and something to drives the game forward and to make the game entertaining. Somehow somewhere the story gets too much focus and overshadow the gameplay. I don't fancy reading tons of diaries and lengthy cutscene to learn about the background lore that makes me away from the gameplay. i could try to ignore them, but at the same time i feel like its taking me out some of that experience.

I played Hotline Miami 2 last year, but the cutscenes get some boring that i skipped all of its cutscene while playing the game. If I didnt, I think my game length will have been doubled
 

Rad

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,068
I have noticed the same. For me it's probably because I don't have the patience to read/hear everything anymore and also less time in general.
 

Foxbat

Banned
Mar 24, 2018
37
It's very bizarre to me how some of these arguments are framed because it's as if some people have never experienced the joy of winning, or the sense of fulfillment that comes with learning or progressing ones own skills. It has little to do with stats, other than stats being an indicator that you're progressing. Like did you guys play sports? Have you ever experienced the pure elation of trying your hardest at something and succeeding? Because for a lot of us, this is what it means to play multiplayer games and in particular esports.

You say multiplayer games feel hollow, I say the vast majority of single player games feel hollow - progressing fake skills and stats, interacting with NPC's, completing meaningless fictional stories one after the other. That to me is the definition of a throwaway experience. I'd rather progress my own skills, interact and create friendships with real people, and create my own stories through the interactions with the game and the community. I had a real epiphany one day after loading up an Elder Scrolls game, looking at my fully decked out character and completed world map, and realizing it was utterly for nothing, all meaningless and contained within a fictional game world.

I still play single player games once in a blue moon, I just have no pretensions about it being anything but a waste of time that I can hopefully glean some enjoyment from. In the back of my mind, I'm always thinking I could be practicing and learning something else. Occasionally a game will come along (like Nier:Automata for example) where the story has a profound impact on me. And for that I'm grateful and I feel it was worth it. But that's few and far between. If someone is chasing that experience, there are works of literature that could last a lifetime, all FAR superior that what's going on in the latest AAA exclusive like GoW.

Bravo sir!!!!!
 

srtrestre

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,971
Yaup, I too am over that shit. It's all about that gameplay-first goodness from here on out for this guy.
 

quotethis

Banned
Jan 21, 2018
594
It's very bizarre to me how some of these arguments are framed because it's as if some people have never experienced the joy of winning, or the sense of fulfillment that comes with learning or progressing ones own skills. It has little to do with stats, other than stats being an indicator that you're progressing. Like did you guys play sports? Have you ever experienced the pure elation of trying your hardest at something and succeeding? Because for a lot of us, this is what it means to play multiplayer games and in particular esports.

You say multiplayer games feel hollow, I say the vast majority of single player games feel hollow - progressing fake skills and stats, interacting with NPC's, completing meaningless fictional stories one after the other. That to me is the definition of a throwaway experience. I'd rather progress my own skills, interact and create friendships with real people, and create my own stories through the interactions with the game and the community. I had a real epiphany one day after loading up an Elder Scrolls game, looking at my fully decked out character and completed world map, and realizing it was utterly for nothing, all meaningless and contained within a fictional game world.

I still play single player games once in a blue moon, I just have no pretensions about it being anything but a waste of time that I can hopefully glean some enjoyment from. In the back of my mind, I'm always thinking I could be practicing and learning something else. Occasionally a game will come along (like Nier:Automata for example) where the story has a profound impact on me. And for that I'm grateful and I feel it was worth it. But that's few and far between. If someone is chasing that experience, there are works of literature that could last a lifetime, all FAR superior that what's going on in the latest AAA exclusive like GoW.

Multiplayer games, along with trophies and achievements, are no less fake than progression in a single player game. None are real accomplishments.
 

Deleted member 10737

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
49,774
User Warned: 'Lazy dev' rhetoric.
same. my standards for what's actual good story telling have gone way higher than when i was a teenager.
i don't connect with "cinematic experiences" for the most part. i think it's a lazy move by devs to focus on that, creating boring and meaningless gameplay that has to be tolerated until the player gets to the "good part", the cutscenes and the actual story. if the shitty story you want to tell isn't actually enhanced by being in an interactive medium and can have the same effect if it was a movie, don't bother imo.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
Multiplayer games, along with throhies and achivements, are no less fake than progression in a single player game. None are real accomplishments.

you need to define what you mean by "real"

people earn a living playing and/or streaming games, which covers both single and multiplayer, and even if there was no income im not so sure what makes an accomplishment fake? trophies or gaming achievements might not mean anything to you personally, but a lot of people do enjoy them and acknowledge them.
 

Deleted member 40102

User requested account closure
Banned
Feb 19, 2018
3,420
I've said it before and I'll say it again: developers who want to make "cinematic experiences" should go learn filmmaking. And players who want a cinematic experience should go see a movie.
Lol how about no?

Life is not what you want buddy let people do what they want and buy what they want and you 'hardcore gamer' be you
 

Surface

Member
Nov 6, 2017
650
Same here

I prefer games where I create my own story/tales based on just gameplay situations

Dont have time to listen to some written story...hence why I would not like TW3 which would be awesome if it was more open sandbox ala skyrim...
 

quotethis

Banned
Jan 21, 2018
594
you need to define what you mean by "real"

people earn a living playing and/or streaming games, which covers both single and multiplayer, and even if there was no income im not so sure what makes an accomplishment fake?

I guess everyone will have their own idea of what is an accomplishment is. Some of the streamers making money aren't usually the best in the world. Those are few and far between.
 

PrimeBeef

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,840
I think that the ludonarrative dissonance is especially pronounced when you're trying to make a serious, cinematic, "realistic" game like Uncharted.

If I'm just playing the cartoon alien Ratchet who doesn't give a fuck about anything, then shooting thousands bad guys doesn't really break the suspension of disbelief. Ditto when I'm Link in a fantasy world and a bunch of monsters start attacking me.

The suspension of disbelief isn't broken because there are no expectations put upon the characters. They're essentially cartoony hunters in a lighthearted story and killing indiscriminately has no bearing on the logic of reality...just like a cartoon. Many early RPGs operate under that same paradigm. They may have a serious story, but there's a lighthearted, whimsical, arcade-like nature to their world.

But when the modern RPG is structured like a movie and the protagonist is expected to have the exact same emotional depth? That's when the casual massacre of thousands of fellow humans can start to become a little more suspect.

I think that's also one of the consequences of graphical advancement. When everyone looked like tiny sprites or blocky polygons, we didn't really take narratives as seriously. But now that games are becoming hyper-realistic, their uncanny actions are starting to raise questions.
Maybe that is why I tend to gravitate to the more cartoony and stylized looking games.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
I guess everyone will have their own idea of what is an accomplishment is. Some of the streamers making money aren't usually the best in the world. Those are few and far between.

You still need to explain the distinction between real and fake accomplishments.

We already have people trying to say that games should just be games and cant be anything more, but now there's this idea you have presented where nothing you do in games has value and isn't real because its digitally provided?! I can only take so much killjoy per day :S
 

lumzi23

Member
Jan 16, 2018
315
Bioware/Obsidian/CDProjekt style story game are my favorite type of single player games. Good story based games (ME trilogy, Witcher 2, Kotor) made in this style are still very engaging to me.
 

TsuWave

Member
Oct 27, 2017
6,997
good story and action/gameplay aren't mutually exclusive but, often on this forum, they are presented as such. also, i feel like, and i hate that, "cinematic experience" has become synonym with any game with really good graphics and that has a semblance of story, and its often used to reduce it just to that, and to dismiss its gameplay mechanics.
 

quotethis

Banned
Jan 21, 2018
594
you still need to explain the distinction between real and fake accomplishments.

I don't really owe you anything.

A real accomplishment for me would be going out and doing a good deed every day. A real accomplishment would be donating money to a charity. A real accomplishment may be becoming a successful actor after struggling for years. Maybe playing sports your whole life and then going pro. Things like that.
 

Artdayne

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
5,015
Bioware/Obsidian/CDProjekt style story game are my favorite type of single player games. Good story based games (ME trilogy, Witcher 2, Kotor) made in this style are still very engaging to me.

Yep, and these are different because you have agency in the story as opposed to something like Uncharted where you're just along for the ride. I especially love great choice and consequence that can be had at times in these games because they make you think and agonize over your decisions.
 

lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
I don't really owe you anything.

A real accomplishment for me would be going out and doing a good deed every day. A real accomplishment would be donating money to a charity. A real accomplishment may be becoming a successful actor after struggling for years. Maybe playing sports your whole life and then going pro. Things like that.

The onus is on you to back up your statement. Its not about me, its about whether or not you want to present something substantial.

Doing charity work is great, but that doesn't say anything about how real it is or how game related achievements are not real.
 

Deleted member 4413

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,238
I've kind of gone the opposite direction. My time is valuable and I have less time for games now than ever in my past. Of a story doesn't fully grab me or make me care, I just don't play it.

There are of course exceptions. I still play Forza and Halo on occasion and am addicted to Elder Scrolls but games like Last of Us and Life is Strange are what I'm mainly after these days.
 

Melchiah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,190
Helsinki, Finland
I was playing Fortnite recently and it made me think a lot about Rocket Leaugue. I would say both are some of the better experiences I've had this gen. It's not the multiplayer aspect that is the big draw as much as it is the instant action. I tried to get into Horizon Zero Dawn, but the storyline just bogs me down, when I play a video game I want to play a game ever I'm instantly playing, without much hassle? Ya know.

I think the general public may be agreeing with me, which is why we see so many games such as Rocket League. Many people may point to this as "death of single player" but I see it as just players demanding more fast pacing in their games.

It's exactly the opposite for me. I gravitate more towards story-driven games, which give me a reason to see the game through. I also like to savor the experiences, instead of rushing them through. Bigger games like Horizon Zero Dawn and God of War can easily take over a month for me to finish. The battle royale and the usual PVP stuff couldn't interest me less. Even Let It Die, the only online game I play currently, doesn't provide instant rewards for effort. It's more about having the patience to collect materials, and staying at diamond level in Tokyo Death Metro, to unlock new and more powerful gear. I much prefer its asynchronous and strategic PVP to the more common type.

I think wanting instant gratification stems up from today's smart phone and social media culture, where people lack the ability to concentrate on a singular thing for longer periods of time, and for example, tend to watch a movie while browsing online. I could never fully enjoy something, if I divided my attention.
 

rude

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,812
I don't have a problem with "cinematic experiences" as long as the gameplay is there to back it up. An example for me would be the difference between the Metal Gear Solid and the Uncharted franchises. The former has an overwrought, ridiculous story spanning several hours of cutscenes but brings the fun gameplay wise. I'm able to throw my brain away for the story sections to get to the fun. The other has very well acted characters and considered direction, a fairly standard plot, and mediocre gameplay. I can't handle that.
 

DarkPrince

Member
Dec 2, 2017
1,055
Opposite for me. Gone are the days of playing these juvinile multiplayer games. I want substance and something that will engross me from start to finish. I don't want some cheap thrill where I get put in a map with a bunch of other players that lasts a few minutes and then repeats the process.

Games worth my time are few and far between but when they do come around what a joy they are to play.
 

Deleted member 11182

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
674
Never been big about story but growing older my interest seems to diminish even further. I just can't bring myself to care about fairy tales. Gameplay > Story, any day of the week.
 

quotethis

Banned
Jan 21, 2018
594
The onus is on you to back up your statement. Its not about me, its about whether or not you want to present something substantial.

Doing charity work is great, but that doesn't say anything about how real it is or how game related achievements are not real.

Because the achievements in something as trivial as video games isn't something that I can apply in life. I can't use "Climb a wall 250 times for 400 points" as a skill or someting you'd put on a resume/application.
 

ebsy

Member
Feb 25, 2018
152
Total opposite. I've been devouring many more VNs, JRPGs, manga, and novels than I ever did when I was younger. I used to want more instant gratification, now I live for that slow build-up and payoff.

Same here. I too am playing as many story based games as possible these days. I've stopped playing MP games completely
 

Kilgore

Member
Feb 5, 2018
3,538
Games needs to find the way to tell stories while you play, without cinematics or severely scripted areas. Having a story is good, but come on, videogames are not cinema, go find it's own language.

Right now I'm with you, long intruductions or a game with many interruptions to tell me things, just bothers me.
 

radiotoxic

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,027
Good for you OP that single player is dying, save for a few obvious exceptions.

Also... Some people here still pushing the narrative of TLOU lacking gameplay? Like, WHAT? That "movie" nonsense is soo 2013. Seriously, not this shit again please.
 
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lvl 99 Pixel

Member
Oct 25, 2017
44,706
Because the achievements in something as trivial as video games isn't something that I can apply in life. I can't use "Climb a wall 250 times for 400 points" as a skill or someting you'd put on a resume/application.

Would you tell the speedrunning community that their best runs are meaningless and fake? of course not. They mean a lot to the runner and the community. Similarly, winning a tournament means a lot to people and the emotions and memories involved might be many times more significant to us than working a shift.

your example is extreme, but rather than not being real its just really unimpressive to most people, gamer or not.
 

d3nchija

Member
Oct 28, 2017
74
London
Total opposite for me, I love a "good" story and games are slowly improving on that field.

In some aspects, games could do so much more with the storytelling than the movies, or even books.

As I grow older, I appreciate more and more games with strong and focused narrative, even if they're short.
No MP games unless I'm feeling brain dead..
 

RM8

Member
Oct 28, 2017
7,905
JP
Total opposite. I've been devouring many more VNs, JRPGs, manga, and novels than I ever did when I was younger. I used to want more instant gratification, now I live for that slow build-up and payoff.
I don't think it's about instant gratifications. You have to spend quite a lot of time in competitive games to be good, so I'd say fighting games are more "slow build-up and payoff" than any narrative experience.
 

Prodigal Son

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,791
opposite for me. if games dont give me reasons to care or arent insanely fun in their own right idc anymore
 

Madsenpai

User requested permanent ban
Banned
Apr 19, 2018
477
I wonder how old is OP. Most of the people playing fortnite I see is below 20. And he is talking about getting old.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: developers who want to make "cinematic experiences" should go learn filmmaking. And players who want a cinematic experience should go see a movie.
Ok mr. authority.
because I don't have the patience to read/hear everything anymore.
Don't get me wrong, but it's too bad for you. Lifetime learning is an important thing.
 

Minilla

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,514
Tokyo
Nah, I can't be bothered dealing with assholes online these days in shallow MP games.

Keep giving me story heavy single layer games and I will keep buying them.
 

nickfrancis86

Member
Nov 10, 2017
427
I find that I want multiplayer, but I only really want co-op PvE. Destiny is/was great for that, the Halo campaigns too. I do like PvP, I still play things like Overwatch and PUBG. But I'd be happy if they didn't exist in place of more co-op campaigns.
 

Ryuhza

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
11,440
San Diego County
I find myself becoming irritated with games that are structured around player retention things like login bonuses and stuff that--unless you dedicate hours per day to playing this one game--is unobtainable except through large cash purchases. Most GaaS games, more or less. Psychologically makes it hard to quit if you've invested yourself at all. Sometimes I just want to take a break or play a different game, but then I think of how terribly much I'm falling behind, and all that I'm missing out on and so on and so forth.

Starting to appreciate single player story driven stuff a lot more again. But blast if these multiplayer games aren't fun. Scratch that itch for competitive and truly emergent encounters.
 

Melchiah

Member
Oct 26, 2017
4,190
Helsinki, Finland
Also... Some people here still pushing the narrative of TLOU lacking gameplay? Like, WHAT? That "movie" nonsense is soo 2013. Seriously, not this shit again please.

Agreed. The immature claim that story-driven games wouldn't be real games is just laughable, and shows the lack of knowledge about the history of gaming. After all, there were story-driven text adventures already in the 8/16-bit days, from developers like Infocom, and movie-like games from Cinemaware. It's people like that, who come up with terms like "walking simulator".

https://www.rollingstone.com/glixel...dith-finch-could-be-something-special-w477847
A canned history of the Walking Simulator: The name was was originally pejorative, a tag given to narrative-driven experiences judged not to be "real games" by the people who judge these things and then make tags about them. Brave gamers unafraid of exploring Hebridean islands without the ability to wall-run have since reclaimed the name to an extent, and a new genre of exploratory, meditative games from Dear Esther to Firewatch has gathered under its banner.

The walking simulator feels like it might be a reaction to velocity, as though somebody realized that speeding through painstakingly crafted landscapes at the speed of violence was a massive waste, and decided to make a game about the ground. Certainly, as small-scale game development has surged, walking simulators have offered a more resource efficient way of making games, with fewer moving parts, moving people, or intricate systems of physics and action.

As such walking simulators (the best ones anyway) are brilliant catalogs of loss, involving the investigation of absence, of missing things and missing people – as often signalled in the titles themselves: Everybody's Gone To The Rapture, The Vanishing Of Ethan Carter. They represent storytelling through exploration and reconstruction, and What Remains Of Edith Finch by Giant Sparrow might be the best one yet.
 

lumzi23

Member
Jan 16, 2018
315
Yep, and these are different because you have agency in the story as opposed to something like Uncharted where you're just along for the ride. I especially love great choice and consequence that can be had at times in these games because they make you think and agonize over your decisions.

Precisely that. I don't mind other styles (RDR is great for instance) but something about a good dialogue tree just pulls me in.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,997
I love SP games, I do. I love a great story. TLoU, GoW, Alan Wake, Max Payne. All games I really love. As I get older I find that I will only play these games in the dead of night, or when my girlfriend is at work. Times when I can actually concentrate on them because I'll just miss too much story when she's like trying to tell me who was a bitch at work, or what she ate for lunch, generally wanting to talk about her day.

When I'm in a situation like that, or when I want to listen to podcasts, I'll stick to something that I can sort of auto-pilot like Diablo 3. Really not much for multiplayer games these days. Something like Destiny 1 or 2 is okay because I don't do high-level play so I just don't chat with folks and I'll grind or run strikes.

Recently Far Cry 5 was great because I could just goof off when she was around and actually progress at my leisure.
 
Oct 30, 2017
3,005
I'm on the opposite direction as I get older I prefer singleplayer story heavy games and don't like to play competitive games as much as I used to