Bwahaha what the fuck. Is delusional egomaniac way more common than I thought?
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Are we over-labeling the alt-right?
- Thread starter Deleted member 4461
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Bwahaha what the fuck. Is delusional egomaniac way more common than I thought?
I'm not sure what you're saying. You keep pointing to the first half of her parahraph, when I'm referencing the second half, and then you attack my reading comprehension when you refuse to finish reading a simple paragraph. I'm done with you.
yeah, that post of his is such a ridiculous troll ("i support clinton, who is mostly running on godwin's law and the woman card, because not doing so would get me lynched by murderous SJWs") that anyone citing his prior "support" of clinton as being evidence of him being a liberal is clearly full of shit
Yup I thought he legit supported her based on what someone said earlier. They were also more familiar with him than I, which would mean.....
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Could they possibly have known and been willfully misrepresenting the situation to make a disingenuous argument? Why, that debating is all-right by me.
I don't think so. Nuance gets thrown out the window when you support Trump. If you love Trump but also claim you have all these progressive values, you're just a fraud, imo.
Donald Trump is alt-right. He emboldens, allys with, and employs white supremecists. If you love Donald Trump, you support white supremecists no matter what views you express. Don't support the alt-right/Nazis/white supremecists' hero like that then whine about being labled alt-right.
So you're a fan of 'gotchas' too.
That profile photo is an embarrassing and distasteful attempt to add authenticity to your juvenile rantings. You certainly demonstrate the right sort of patterns for that type of behaviour too.
the second part of her paragraph? you mean this part?
where in there does she
she said "mostly made up of" not "them all"
and also she said "work with [white supremacists] and do nothing to stop them" which is not quite the same as "[saying they are] far right or in support of the alt-right"
not that the distinction between "working with and not trying to stop the far right" and "supporting the alt-right" is all that meaningful, because they are both deplorable, but they are still clearly not quite the same thing
(and i realize you have now made me say something similar to what fake centrists say to defend the republicans who are ok with working trumpists, so i have to congratulate you on successfully trolling the shit out of me)
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...No. The point is that he isn't alt-right. Just because his views are wild doesn't make him alt-right.
I was using him as an example of a wider phenomenon.
I wasn't using it to say he was a liberal. I specifically said that he says whatever is politically convenient.
I don't think we should throw nuance out the window, but if it's easier for you to believe that so many Americans are alt-right, I can't really help.
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Uh huh. Ok guy.
The difference is mine uses the truth, a specific truth, to catch and put down a specific rehearsed neo nazi/alt right lie, because it has been used soooooooooo much by people claiming not to be neo nazis/alt right. (Hide that power level).
And the sole purpose of yours is just a general attempt to muddy the waters.
Another classic go to tactic.
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He is alt right. 100%. Weird you chose him to try and prove your point.
are you referring to this post?
the way you phrased that, whether deliberately or not, implied that he ever supported hillary in the same way he now supports trump
which is not true
his "support" for hillary was in the form of obviously sarcastic posts where he claimed to support hillary, while shitting on her all-the-while, while his support for trump was always full-throated
yeah, he has been spouting MRA rhetoric for a long time, but especially when talking about hillary
in hindsight, him being an MRA should not be all that surprising, given that his self-insert character in the comic that made him famous is literally an engineer too intelligent for his job and for whom it's in-universe canon that all attractive women in the world have literally formed a conspiracy focused on avoiding him
This is not a situation that requires any nuance.
Either you are ok with using Nazis to get what you want.
Or you are ok with giving up one or more less important things, because not enabling Nazis is more fucking important to you.
Zero nuance.
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I mean, to my knowledge, you're the only person in the thread who agrees with that. So I guess that's fine; I personally wouldn't describe him that way, but that's all you.
My general point beyond the example stands.
Fair enough - I wasn't familiar with his initial blog post; only what I had seen afterwards. So I knew he had supported her in the past, but never realized his reasoning (which again, like most of what he writes, is nonsensical).
In either case, I was never using it to say he was liberal - I would go based on his claims of his voting record if I wanted to prove that. But my point isn't that he's liberal - it's that he is not alt-right & he is an opportunist.
It's not about belief, it's about actions fitting the label. Basically, you're looking for nuance in a decision/view where there is none.
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But simply supporting Trump doesn't make you alt-right... Nor does being a single-issue voter, nor does being generally ignorant of politics.
There's exceptions to every rule, but in general voting for Trump does make you alt-right. Those are the values he explicitly ran on, the people he openly surrounded himself with, the people that gave him the strongest support, the people he went out of his way to associate with. I don't see why anyone should get the benefit of doubt on this.
Yes, some exceptionally uninformed and stupid people will be caught up under the banner, but that's the case with any grouping.
And single issue voters don't get a pass, imo. If you're casting your lot in with a group over a single issue, you're now part of that group. Deal with it.
well, his posts in "support" of hillary are clearly a case of using disingenuous arguments in order to push a right-wing agenda
(as is the very post you linked to in the OP where he makes the false equivalence that believing in the fact that certain politicians use racist dog-whistles on the one hand and birtherism on the other hand as equally deserving of the term "conspiracy theory")
(not even to mention how many of the posts on his blog are about using the method of "persuasion" (his favourite buzzword) to push your agenda, only to transparently then use those very techniques to push false equivalences and general right-wing bullshit)
according to my definition of alt-right (as explained in post #20) the bolded would clearly make him alt-right
(i guess there may also be a case to be made that he is a massive irresponsible troll, who amuses himself by trolling the right as much as the left, by using the very techniques he says are used to push the agenda of climate scientists, feminists, liberals etcetera, himself in order to push a right wing agenda. in which case he gives away countless disingenuous arguments for the alt-right to use, not out of conviction, but only for lulz/attention/book sales)
Trump openly campaigned on xenophobia, misogyny and racist dog whistles. He was pretty blatant about it. That is pretty much all I will say about my ban warning.
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Again, that makes the label completely useless. All conservatives or moderates aren't alt-right. That's the perfect example of why I made this thread - this kind of overgeneralization.
Again, I haven't defended a single thing he has written in this thread. I've said before that most of his writing insane, and I can't tell if he's genuinely caught up in his "master persuader" horseshit or not.
The only argument I was making about him was this - given his stated views, he's not really alt-right. An alt-right darling to be sure (and one person in the comments, who claimed to be alt-right, noted that they respected Adams, but didn't necessarily agree with all of his views).
Maybe he shouldn't have been my example considering how much stress this is. But the point I was making (and many people in the first couple of pages got this) is that there are plenty of people who may not be as extreme as Adams who are also not alt-right. By painting all of them with a broad brush, we diminish our message, and it becomes useless for anything other than communicating with each other. If that.
Again, many people who support him aren't doing it because of his racism/misogyny. They just don't believe he's racist or misogynist. You can argue that they're misguided, sure. But they can support him without being themselves those things.
Take Kanye, for example. I classify him as "dumbass." He's not alt-right or racist, but holy shit, everything he says is actually stupid.
Now, that's another extreme example, but I figure it's easier to use figures people know.
I'm sorry, but if someone doesn't believe trump is racist/sexist, then that person is most likely racist/sexist them self.
I'd prefer to have active bigotry be treated a little more harshly than it is, but what can you do *shrug*
We didn't coin the term alt-right nor did we associate it with neonazis.
Neonazis (hoping to escape the negative connotations of being neonazis) coined it and then used it to name their new right wing coalition.
Now that the public are associating the alt-right label with the group that created the term (neonazis) now people (particularly the non-neonazis that entered into the coalition with the neonazis) are saying it's over applied? :rolleyes:
They should have never entered into a coalition with muthafucking neonazis is what I have to say.
Neonazis (hoping to escape the negative connotations of being neonazis) coined it and then used it to name their new right wing coalition.
Now that the public are associating the alt-right label with the group that created the term (neonazis) now people (particularly the non-neonazis that entered into the coalition with the neonazis) are saying it's over applied? :rolleyes:
They should have never entered into a coalition with muthafucking neonazis is what I have to say.
If you voted Trump you either are racist or enabled a racist. There isn't much of a difference
It has definitely taken on a sort of joke meaning, calling someone a Nazi. It doesn't hold the same impact that it used to.
I feel that many do, yes. The requirements change from person to person, but no, I'm not going to call every trump voter a Nazi. Hear people saying it here and on social media and it's gotten ridiculous. If you're not one of those people, then I'm not referring to you. If some folks disagree, then good for them just the same.
Seriously. What can you really say that separates you from his behavior? He made it evident that he intended to do racist things, and he did racist things. Y'all either wanted him to do them or you just didn't care enough about it.
I do think that a lot of people are guilty of over labeling and overusing terms like alt right or far right with too big of a brushstroke. I've witnessed some use of such terms with some people being so wrongly used, it's been near a blood libel. As a Jew, I cannot stand or endorse anything that leads to anything like a blood libel. I absolutely believe people in large need to stop generalizing. Nothing is black and white, and at the end of the day, I (and again, I can only speak for myself, this time as a political independent) believe that the United Sates specifically is pretty much 50/50 on politics, and it's absolutely disengenous and dangerous to assume that half the country is filled with despicable people. As far as I am concerned, specifically speaking to the people of my nation, one notion that I absolutely do agree with the current president on is that we citizens of the USA should be Americans first. There is more that we have in common than not, so why all the hate and intolerance? I hate extremism, I hate bigotry, I hate intolerance, and I don't care where it come's from, it has to stop. Over-generalizing and blind hate has to stop.
I mean, I hear people calling others Nazis just because they voted for a certain person. As in just because they voted for someone, in a free election, in their own interests. You know how that makes me, the queer Jew feel? Trust me, I know what a Nazi is, and I know what makes a person a Nazi, and voting for a mayor of your town that's gonna benefit you and happens to be republican, doesn't make you a Nazi. One of too many examples I've dealt with. People who don't know what a Nazi is, privileged people no aren't even the targets of Nazis, calling others Nazis...
I mean, I hear people calling others Nazis just because they voted for a certain person. As in just because they voted for someone, in a free election, in their own interests. You know how that makes me, the queer Jew feel? Trust me, I know what a Nazi is, and I know what makes a person a Nazi, and voting for a mayor of your town that's gonna benefit you and happens to be republican, doesn't make you a Nazi. One of too many examples I've dealt with. People who don't know what a Nazi is, privileged people no aren't even the targets of Nazis, calling others Nazis...
Sure. Might as well say that paying my federal taxes enables racism too.
Sorry, I just don't find it worth thinking or talking about the matter that simply. It's not even that I don't agree with the sentiment in some general sense, it's just that as an actual talking point, it's absolutely worthless. It does nothing to move the needle in the favor of progressives and keeps people in the irony-lead echo chambers they used to claim to be so deathly afraid of. Nuanced approaches aren't giving fair respect to "Both Sides!" no matter how much people parrot that mind-numbing, catch-all phrase from the right shoulder of their hobbling liberalism. In fact, it's just giving the opposition ammo. When someone you actually know and love in the real world expresses interest in voting for Trump, you're forced to sheath your keyboard for a moment and find somewhere to sit and actually think.
Hasty Generalizations cause exorbitant eyes to complete the curve, when they've only spotted the smallest of arcs. They're bad, no matter how passionate you might be about a matter. Ya'll can have fun with that.
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This is how I feel. People are trigger-happy with the labels and it's complete counter-productive.
Scot Addams has the shtick - "oh hey I'm not an expert and know nothing about this, but I'll listen to everything anyone has to say about it and be convinced". I think he intentionally excluded his thoughts about climate science in that post, because they are either incredibly naive or incredibly disingenuous, and he knows it. Another of his shticks is clearly that he loves to make a """Joke""" that he knows full well comes across as extremely offensive, and then go back and say "WHO, ME?! Why, I'd never!". It's annoying.
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Well, my point is the over-labeling applying "alt-right" to those groups.
In some cases, I suppose. But seeing my acquaintance's opinions? More likely that they can stretch the definitions for him.
And I already said why I disagreed. Guess we're at an impasse.
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If you're saying not all conservatives & moderates are alt-right, you're agreeing with what I was saying more than you know.
I guess the last part is "not everyone who supported Trump is alt-right."
If some one I loved or was friends with voted Trump they wouldn't be around me anymore.
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Yeah. That sounds unbalanced and even slightly unhinged to me.
It's not a way I'd choose to live my life but I do understand it.
Dude I am not going to have people around me that voted for Trump. A guy that openly mocks minorities like me. Calling me unhinged is mad
There is no nuance to this situation.
You either actively support Nazis, or are willing to look the other way, from fucking Nazis, likely because you know you don't have to worry about being targeted by them, to get something you want.
Or you dont.
No nuance required.
No, you're trying to equate "all conservatives and moderates" with people who voted for Donald Trump for some reason.
I agree with this.
ex. My mother likes Trump, and she's objectively a good person. There's nothing she wouldn't do for someone she cares about, to help them. Some responses I'd expect to hear back to that statement are both sanctimonious and hypocritical.
Politics are inherently divisive. I just say live and let live. Having flaws is part of being human, and there will always shitty people and good people, on "both sides".
Man, I couldn't imagine breaking ties with my future (Trump voting) in-laws. Nothing good would come of it, just bitterness and resentment.
This is completely divorced from reality. The left has been "nuanced" forever. If any side has been over generalizing, it's been the right, and look at the position of power they've found themselves in. At a certain point, you have to draw a line and tell the right to either ditch their white supremacist neighbors, or start calling them the enablers that they are.
The issue is that voting for Trump is a shitty thing to do, so one side is at a disadvantage.