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Salty Rice

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,612
Pancake City
And here i thought there would be good reasons for that thread title in the OP but all i see is him having dinner with people he knows for a long time.

Also pretending he doesnt care and doesnt hang out with left people is just silly.
 

Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,438
Actual full-blown Nazis/white supremacists have flat out stated they see guys like Rogan, Sargon, Rubin as gateway drugs who eventually turn young white men to their cause.

So yes anyone who says that Rogan is helping the alt-right/Nazi cause is correct.
 

Plok64

Member
Oct 27, 2017
145
Seems like many here are seriously ignorant about the definition of Alt-Right. While some of the people in the picture have overlapping concerns about certain issues with the Alt-Right it does not mean they are part of the same group. Alt-Right is specifically a White-Nationalist movement.

This is how the SPLC defines Alt-Right:
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/ideology/alt-right

1111111.jpg



AP Definitive Source: Writing about the Alt-Right
https://blog.ap.org/behind-the-news/writing-about-the-alt-right
 

Arkaign

Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,991
Come on guys let's not turn accusation of Nazis/at-right become the new red scare type shit.

Not everyone that had some leftist views was a Russian mole or communist planning to overthrow the United States.

And not everyone who has some right wing views a nazi.

I can agree with this. I also think that people sharing dumb ideas isn't scary. Formulate reasonable responses and argue logically why they're wrong, that will do far more good than simply slapping labels on and thinking that is sufficient as a way of refuting their incorrect ideas and statements. One can also point out one of the hallmarks of some of these right wing types : they dress up things with many facts that while true, don't really support what they come to as conclusions or policies. In gaming it might be like saying : The Order 1886 was a bad game, therefore third person cinematic games are bad. Following a true (or reasonable) statement with a logical fallacy or something that doesn't hold up to deeper analysis.

I heard a great podcast from cracked about how the US culture gets WW2 wrong, and one of the surprising points made was how insidiously effective people like Shapiro can be when the response isn't on the level that it needs to be. "You are a terrible person, I'm not listening" or similar is not an effective response. "You are wrong and this is why" with detailed reasoning and fact is hugely better. I mean if you respond with anger, emotion, or flat out ignoring, it enables them so much more. And to those who can be reached in the middle, especially the youth, responding with what almost appears like a tantrum is surely not a great way to bring people to your point of view.

One of the greatest enemies of this nation is confirmation bias. I saw it so clearly in the Iraq war era of the 2000s. Fox news crowd simply eating up the propaganda without looking deeper at the corruption and stupidity that wrought so much death and waste. Those people simply didn't want to listen to any point of view that didn't support what they already believed. "Oh, they don't agree with the President, so they're unpatriotic, I don't have time to listen to them". I see a fair amount of that type of thing on both the right and the left these days, outright refusing to engage, at a time when people really really need these things brought out into the light where one can see the issues, warts and all.

I'm a fairly far left socialist / social libertarian according to the tests, and believe in nationalized healthcare, energy, extremely progressive tax, getting out of legislating morality, ending the prison industrial complex which undermines minority and poverty stricken communities by preventing nonviolent drug offenders from voting (and which has crippled families affected by removing parents from their children's lives in full or part to disastrous results). We have so much to talk about and so far to go in bringing sane and scientifically sound ideas to the forefront. Of ending this anti-intellectual era that the right has really worked hard on in the Fox news circles. I just don't believe that refusing to engage and then talking in an echo chamber will be effective.

Some of this is only tertiary to the general conversation here, but I do see a significant trend of outright dismissal and lack of interest in building and winning the war of minds and ideas. YMMV, I hope purely for the best.
 

RabidDwarf76

Member
Oct 27, 2017
315
Actual full-blown Nazis/white supremacists have flat out stated they see guys like Rogan, Sargon, Rubin as gateway drugs who eventually turn young white men to their cause.

So yes anyone who says that Rogan is helping the alt-right/Nazi cause is correct.
Who are the "actual full-blown Nazis/White supremacist" who have said this?
 

zoukka

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 28, 2017
2,361
Just wanting to point out that a word from a "real nazi" doesn't magically change anyone into anything. The more important direction is how any given person views this "real nazi", not the other way around.
 

Arx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
431
Yeah it's quite sad to see that that place has becoming a haven for trumpster pepes. It's quite ironic that as soon as you give an opposing viewpoint they are quick to dogpile and label you, which is what they were accusing the old gaf of doing... Same shit different sides. And if ur a moderate that automatically puts you on the other side
A moderate...you mean, in the middle? Nah dude, you know that if you are "in the middle", you are really at the right of the far-left side. Meaning at the right. Complicit at least.

I have to admit, the last few pages are actually refreshing to read on this forum because they do not devolve into a dogpiling of anyone who is not with the OP. Feels good!

Actual full-blown Nazis/white supremacists have flat out stated they see guys like Rogan, Sargon, Rubin as gateway drugs who eventually turn young white men to their cause.

So yes anyone who says that Rogan is helping the alt-right/Nazi cause is correct.
So, what does that entail exactly?
Because the editor of the Daily Stormer said it, it´s true that Rubin (and probably...Peterson, Harris..) help turn young people into nazis? What makes that statement "true"?
 
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Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
being anti-war would not be considered as being right wing on the political compass's left-right scale which is only about economic policy

labour ending up to the right of the lib dems on economic policy is also laughable

that stuff is covered by the left-right scale rather than the lib-authoritarian scale though

separating economic policy from everything else is the entire point of describing politics as having two dimensions

Economic policy is often the backbone of a political party, it's a huge building block for how your manifesto is going to be funded/supported and carried out. From taxes to business regulation to where your money is going to be spent and how.

It's not about separating economic policy, but accepting the definitions of authoritarianism when applied to economics.

Obviously, when it's applied to social issues it's a different conversation. From who the state is going to have powers to arrest to who the state wants to spy on with things like the porn bills, snooping charters and so on. The Tories are huge authoritarians when it comes to social issues, but fall more in-line with the Republicans when it comes to tax cutting and favouring businesses over people.

Why do you think I get described as authoritarian or leaning towards authoritarianism? When all my answers are weighted I'm routinely stating the Government should be involved in business regulation, taxing Google/Apple/Amazon correctly, going after offshore tax havens, scaling a tax system to earnings and then I also see value in the state having a benefits system, an NHS, public transport, public social care and so on. I want the state heavily involved and having many powers.

But because when it comes to authoritarianism around privacy, free speech, prisons and the legal system, the death penalty and so on, those areas balance me out to be somewhat libertarian. Obviously on this forum that's enough to declare someone as alt-right, a Nazi or secretly right-wing. You know me well and you like others on this forum know I've had some labels thrown at me I just have to laugh at. Because I think some of the UK's arrests over speech as too authoritarian doesn't mean I endorse and hold hands with some of the people jailed or arrested. It means I prefer society to have a bit of responsibility for handling the consequences for saying mean or shitty things over instantly turning to the Government and legal system.

That kind of reductionism when it comes to politics is tiring, brain dead and often comes across like Charlie's first Modern Studies or political class in high-school. Much like blanket calling people alt-right or Nazi's just because you don't like them. I'd rather identify them correctly politically and then the personal or moral judgements followed by ire, swearing or hate or whatever you want to say to express yourself on someone.

Incorrectly identifying people politically is something that's being weaponized against the left somewhat successfully with what are genuine assholes spreading messages that the left simply thinks anyone not 100% towing the line is a Nazi. It's not helping at times. The left isn't a hivemind, nor is it a black/white collective. Lots of people exist on this side with some variation, and not being 100% pure doesn't make someone alt-right or an alt-right sympathizer.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
8,706
Not sure if mentioned, but he did shut down Dave Rubin's idea to gut building codes. Rubin claimed they largely werent needed because quality companies will use sound building practices for reputational reasons. Rogan was having none of it. Corner cutting is a well documented cost saving phenomenon.
 

Polaroid_64

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
It would appear the defense force has moved the goalposts to such a place where they feel they get the win.

The original post claimed he gave more of a platform to the alt right and hangs out with them.

But now he isn't a Nazi so all is well. Congrats, I guess.
 

Voyager

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
3,638
Not sure if mentioned, but he did shut down Dave Rubin's idea to gut building codes. Rubin claimed they largely werent needed because quality companies will use sound building practices for reputational reasons. Rogan was having none of it. Corner cutting is a well documented cost saving phenomenon.

Yeah for every 10 dumb things Rogan says, he manages to be right 1 time. I guess that's why some think he's a libertarian?
 

Arx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
431
Is this the same defense as, "David Duke/Richard Spencer don't know what they're talking about, Donald Trump's rhetoric doesn't actually benefit white supremacists"?
You are evading. What makes Andrew Anglins statement true?

Also, who is defending what exactly?

It would appear the defense force has moved the goalposts to such a place where they feel they get the win.

The original post claimed he gave more of a platform to the alt right and hangs out with them.

But now he isn't a Nazi so all is well. Congrats, I guess.
I don´t think the point is to "win", because there is nothing to be won here. Just to have an actual discussion that does not get shut down immediately.

And again we are at a point were Peterson, Harris and Weinstein get thrown into the same pool with Milo, I guess?
 
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Ray Wonder

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
649
Is this the same defense as, "David Duke/Richard Spencer don't know what they're talking about, Donald Trump's rhetoric doesn't actually benefit white supremacists"?

Is this the same defense as, "Delfecting to something extraordinarily irrelevant to our conversation"

You're the one who brought up how much Andew Anglin's opinion matters. Why do you think he's correct about Joe Rogan?
 

EDebs1916

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
483
His defense group focusing on playing the victim because of a label instead of looking at the company he keeps, the rhetoric he endorses and the platform he provides.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
Economic policy is often the backbone of a political party, it's a huge building block for how your manifesto is going to be funded/supported and carried out. From taxes to business regulation to where your money is going to be spent and how.

It's not about separating economic policy, but accepting the definitions of authoritarianism when applied to economics.

Obviously, when it's applied to social issues it's a different conversation. From who the state is going to have powers to arrest to who the state wants to spy on with things like the porn bills, snooping charters and so on. The Tories are huge authoritarians when it comes to social issues, but fall more in-line with the Republicans when it comes to tax cutting and favouring businesses over people.

Why do you think I get described as authoritarian or leaning towards authoritarianism? When all my answers are weighted I'm routinely stating the Government should be involved in business regulation, taxing Google/Apple/Amazon correctly, going after offshore tax havens, scaling a tax system to earnings and then I also see value in the state having a benefits system, an NHS, public transport, public social care and so on. I want the state heavily involved and having many powers.
this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the two dimensional political model used by the political compass

all of the bolded issues have to do with the economic axis and would place you on the left, and wouldn't impact the authoritarian - libertarian axis at all

But because when it comes to authoritarianism around privacy, free speech, prisons and the legal system, the death penalty and so on, those areas balance me out to be somewhat libertarian..
i would have to see your specific stances on these issues (or if you could just show all your answers that could help as well) to see why you're placed in the middle of a libertarian-authoritarian scale. it doesn't have anything to do with your answers about the state's role in regulating the economy though. that is completely covered by the economical axis

again, share your answers, and i will be able to tell why you're on the middle of the social axis

i remember you expressing particular views about feminism, so that may be part of the reason

edit: sorry, actually, isidewith seems to have a weird definition of authoritarian/libertarian not in line with the one used by the political compass, according to this picture, which you posted before:
SxEimuK.png

that side seems to have way too many axes to be useful

according to a traditional poli-sci two-dimensional model, their left v right, regulation deregulation, libertarian v authoritarian and collectivism vs individualism would all be captured by a standard left v right economic policy scale (as evidenced by the fact that you're scoring on the same end in all of these) 4 axes is clearly introducing a lot of needless redundancy, one axis would be enough to cover everything, it' a stupidly designed test

the same can be said for traditional vs progressive, unilateralism vs multilateralism and religious vs secular all being a part of a single "social issues" dimension ranging from "authoritarian" to "libertarian"
 
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Clix

Banned
Holy shit, what is going on in here? Going by many of the takes here, I get the feeling many of you would have thrived during the McCarthy era... shaking my head at the way this forum is heading and is being allowed to head into.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
this is a fundamental misunderstanding of the two dimensional political model used by the political compass

all of the bolded issues have to do with the economic axis and would place you on the left, and wouldn't impact the authoritarian - libertarian axis at all


i would have to see your specific stances on these issues (or if you could just show all your answers that could help as well) to see why you're placed in the middle of a libertarian-authoritarian scale. it doesn't have anything to do with your answers about the state's role in regulating the economy though. that is completely covered by the economical axis

again, share your answers, and i will be able to tell why you're on the middle of the social axis

i remember you expressing weird views about feminism, so that may be part of the reason

"Weird views about feminism" is about as all-encompassing as "you support some element of free speech so you must be right-wing". You do understand and accept people can have a debate within the realms of feminism without everyone having to be lock-step in agreement over absolutely everything? If you can remember "weird views" how about you suggest what said views are? Like many core fundamentals around equal rights, equal pay, sexism and equality in general you're not going to find me disagreeing. More expansive social dialogue or opinions on pulling games, books, movies and so on, I might debate. So do many people when authoritarianism can branch into asking for state action/response.

As for logging into ISidewith, can you login? Or anyone else?

https://gb.isidewith.com/social-login?r=https://uk.isidewith.com/

Clicking anything other than email is giving me

This page isn't working
secure.isidewith.com is currently unable to handle this request.

HTTP ERROR 500

One of my sets of results is via Twitter login and the other Google.

I guess I could just fill it out again to hand over to you for your scrutiny.
 
Oct 27, 2017
4,432
I care less about whether someone is alt right than I do whether they call out and stand up to the alt right.

The alt right, in general, is inhumane and holds some really regressive and hurtful views and ideologies. You've gotta stand up to them to be a decent person in my book.

Joe Rogan fails that test, and seems more interested in capitalizing on their popularity among male internet crowds.

My personal opinion is that he's just a really really dumb centrist who has found a way to make a fairly successful podcast off having these people on his show.
 
Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
"Weird views about feminism" is about as all-encompassing as "you support some element of free speech so you must be right-wing". You do understand and accept people can have a debate within the realms of feminism without everyone having to be lock-step in agreement over absolutely everything? If you can remember "weird views" how about you suggest what said views are? Like many core fundamentals around equal rights, equal pay, sexism and equality in general you're not going to find me disagreeing. More expansive social dialogue or opinions on pulling games, books, movies and so on, I might debate. So do many people when authoritarianism can branch into asking for state action/response.

As for logging into ISidewith, can you login? Or anyone else?

https://gb.isidewith.com/social-login?r=https://uk.isidewith.com/

Clicking anything other than email is giving me



One of my sets of results is via Twitter login and the other Google.

I guess I could just fill it out again to hand over to you for your scrutiny.
don't bother, see my edit above

isidewith is using a non-standard model

what you said was correct based on the model isidewith uses, my bad, but the model they are using is stupid and not really supported in the poli sci literature

my "weird views about feminism" point was based on that article you made a thread about written by an alt-right writer
 

PMS341

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt-account
Banned
Oct 29, 2017
6,634
Regardless of political affiliation, Rogan himself supports and gives a platform to those who share "values" with the alt-right in general. He is complacent.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
don't bother, see my edit above

isidewith is using a non-standard model

what you said was correct based on the model isidewith uses, my bad, but the model they are using is stupid and not really supported in the poli sci literature

Have you got something else you'd prefer I filled in? I did a political compass test here

3co7Wm8.png


You are a left moderate social libertarian.
Left: 3.55, Libertarian: 3.49

https://www.resetera.com/posts/9744272/

Although some of the framing of a few questions wasn't that great IMO. Especially the abortion one I mentioned. Have I feeling I answered that "wrong" based upon my dislike of the framing.

my "weird views about feminism" point was based on that article you made a thread about written by an alt-right writer

The Playboy article about male feminists who end up lying and being sexual predators? Yeah, bad source and I admitted that. I'd much rather be annoyed about these fuckers who are that evil though, than me posting an article by an "alt-right" woman. My definition of her after looking into her would probably amount to Conservative troll/TERF and all-round asshole. But again if that's to be covered by alt-right, call her that I guess.

People projecting to be something they are not as a means to deceive has always been something that's ground my gears.
 

LosDaddie

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,622
Longwood, FL
When your worldview is devoid of nuance and the only 2 options are Liberal or Alt-Right/Nazi, then sure, Rogan would be in the Nazi/Alt-Right camp.

Because Rogan definitely isn't going to pass any purity test from the Left.
 

Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
You wouldn't dare consider his opinion correct any other time, so what makes his opinion worth a shit, on that?

The same thing that makes Lee Atwater's opinion worth mentioning when talking about the racism of the Southern Strategy.

That would only be worth talking about if Anglin actually revealed the alt-right's hand, though, and a few Google searches have given me nothing on Anglin saying anything about gateways to the alt-right (let alone anything from him that singles out Rogan as such).
 
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Oct 25, 2017
21,466
Sweden
Have you got something else you'd prefer I filled in? I did a political compass test here

3co7Wm8.png




https://www.resetera.com/posts/9744272/

Although some of the framing of a few questions wasn't that great IMO. Especially the abortion one I mentioned. Have I feeling I answered that "wrong" based upon my dislike of the framing.
that test is better

it is correctly using the two-dimensional model, and seems to lack the weird bias of the "political compass" websiste that i mentioned on the last page

your position here sounds congruent with the views you described in post #558

(also your position is quite close to mine. i end up on the same position as you on the libertarian-authoritarian axis, and two ticks to the left of you on the left-right axis)
 

Jombie

Member
Oct 27, 2017
10,392
It's true that people here are getting too caught up in semantics. HOWEVER, it literally doesn't matter if he vehemently disagrees with most of the alt-right's bullshit (he doesn't), actively giving them a never ending supply of ammo and legitimacy is a dangerously naive thing to do.
 

Piston

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,170
So I was listening to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast last week and he made pretty extensive references to both Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris without really reprimanding them or putting a disclaimer about some of their ideas. Did anyone else listen?

I was pretty disappointed.
 

Deleted member 888

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,361
that test is better

it is correctly using the two-dimensional model, and seems to lack the weird bias of the "political compass" websiste that i mentioned on the last page

your position here sounds congruent with the views you described in post #558

(also your position is quite close to mine. i end up on the same position as you on the libertarian-authoritarian axis, and two ticks to the left of you on the left-right axis)

Okay so, I'm fine with that. It doesn't upset me to have yourself or pretty much half of Era register as being around the same position as me on a political compass test. Where things seem to go really wrong at times is when we might butt heads over some differences and that amounts to too quickly going to you must be alt-right.

If someone thinks I'm an asshole I'd rather they say that and why, than any gymnastics to try and say I must believe in Nazi-ideology and a white ethnostate. I make mistakes in my life and need to debate to learn like many of us, but I don't just wake up one day after hearing Louis Theroux on the Joe Rogan podcast and believe my skin colour makes me superior to anyone. I require self-responsibility to listen, learn and construct my own views. My own compassion doesn't drive off a cliff because I heard an asshole speak.

It is possible to come across people you seriously dislike in life and have huge disagreements with, that do end up politically being quite similar to you on a vast majority of points. That's called life. This is where you use debate and you use your freedom to speak to challenge and try and persuade. It's not very persuasive to simply call people alt-right/Nazi's when you don't have enough to go on and you're frustrated because debating and challenging can be hard. It's much better to see correct political labelling, or as close to as possible, followed by any criticism and ire you want to aim at someone.

Too many people are skipping the hard part of challenging others in life and just going to using labels as a way to try and shut someone down. That's not working particularly well at times. I'm not quite saying I know the answers either, but I'm also not quite sure a massive topic arguing over Joe Rogan being alt-right is helping. It'll probably just add to us being painted as being too quick to over-generalize. Try and label Rogan intellectually honestly and then move onto calling him all the things you think he actually is. But maybe that is simply me getting hung up over not thinking Rogan is a white-supremacist personally, even if some speakers he's had on are.
 
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Kusagari

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,438
The same thing that makes Lee Atwater's opinion worth mentioning when talking about the racism of the Southern Strategy.

That would only be worth talking about if Anglin actually revealed the alt-right's hand, though, and a few Google searches have given me nothing on Anglin saying anything about gateways to the alt-right (let alone anything from him that singles out Rogan as such).

Here's the direct quotes. It's from a Daily Stormer article:

I was fine with Sargon being a reactionary who focused exclusively on the feminist issue. I have watched many of his videos, and not really disagreed with any of it. However, if that is where he feels comfortable, even if it is simply because he wants to remain on YouTube, that's fine. But seeing him blame the British people for Pakistani child rape gangs was something that needed addressed.

Sargon's video relies heavily on the punchy dry-humor which makes Sargon a popular YouTube personality. He is not known for introducing new ideas, and that is fine, we like to watch his videos anyway because he recycles other people's ideas in a way which is fun.

I have now pretty well agreed not to argue with Sargon of Akkad any further, as I don't really see any point to it, and feel that on some level he is leading people in our direction (as we are the obvious conclusion of reactionary thought), so there is no reason to try and obliterate him.

I lump guys like Rubin and Rogan in with this because it fits them pretty well as well. They all live in the same circles, constantly interviewing Sargon, Milo, Peterson, etc. And Rogan constantly agrees with these people and their reactionary thoughts toward feminism and "SJWs"
 
Jun 10, 2018
8,847
His defense group focusing on playing the victim because of a label instead of looking at the company he keeps, the rhetoric he endorses and the platform he provides.
We've reached the point where the only way you can rightfully condemn a person is if/when they blatantly espouse racist language and/or behavior. Anything less than that is given the "plausible deniability" treatment.
 

Dirtyshubb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
17,555
UK
You are evading. What makes Andrew Anglins statement true?

Also, who is defending what exactly?
I mean, just looking at the situation should be enough surely?

Its one thing to have some alt-right darling on for discussion if you are actually challenging them but if you are simply having someone on and mostly allowing them to spout their rhetoric without any real challenge, all you are doing is giving them a platform to reach more people.

Remember these people (Rogan, Rubin etc) portray themselves as rational intellects that can speak to both sides and hear them out to find rational middle position. Now imagine that these same people routinely attack the left while ignoring the right or at least not challenging them as much as they do the left, what do you think the viewers are going to start thinking?

'God Rogan/Rubin is right, the left are worse then i thought and that nicely styled, slick haired intellectual was so polite and talked a lot about things that made sense to me. Rogan/Rubin didnt say anything bad about them or their opinions either so they must think they are right too. Im gonna start following this guy now too'.

Also you become acclimated to the situation, if they keep having these right wing/alt-right people on without challenging them hard, some fans are gonna start believing that is how the situation should be handled and that any for of challenge is an attack, regardless of how justified it is.
 
Dec 18, 2017
2,697
So I was listening to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast last week and he made pretty extensive references to both Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris without really reprimanding them or putting a disclaimer about some of their ideas. Did anyone else listen?

I was pretty disappointed.

I never listen to that guy, but thanks for the heads up!
 

Vautrin

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
936
So I was listening to Malcolm Gladwell's podcast last week and he made pretty extensive references to both Jordan Peterson and Sam Harris without really reprimanding them or putting a disclaimer about some of their ideas. Did anyone else listen?

I was pretty disappointed.

Maybe your ideas about these two thinkers have been misguided. Who can say

See above for conformation bias in effect.
 

Goat Mimicry

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,920
Here's the direct quotes. It's from a Daily Stormer article:

I lump guys like Rubin and Rogan in with this because it fits them pretty well as well. They all live in the same circles, constantly interviewing Sargon, Milo, Peterson, etc. And Rogan constantly agrees with these people and their reactionary thoughts toward feminism and "SJWs"

Okay, given that quote I can see your point.
 

Arx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
431
Here's the direct quotes. It's from a Daily Stormer article:



I lump guys like Rubin and Rogan in with this because it fits them pretty well as well. They all live in the same circles, constantly interviewing Sargon, Milo, Peterson, etc. And Rogan constantly agrees with these people and their reactionary thoughts toward feminism and "SJWs"
Yeah, that´s what he said. How does his feeling make it any more or less "true"? I can see why you FEEL it´s true, because you lump all these people together. But that is a very, very simplistic way of viewing this.

I mean, just looking at the situation should be enough surely?

Its one thing to have some alt-right darling on for discussion if you are actually challenging them but if you are simply having someone on and mostly allowing them to spout their rhetoric without any real challenge, all you are doing is giving them a platform to reach more people.

Remember these people (Rogan, Rubin etc) portray themselves as rational intellects that can speak to both sides and hear them out to find rational middle position. Now imagine that these same people routinely attack the left while ignoring the right or at least not challenging them as much as they do the left, what do you think the viewers are going to start thinking?

'God Rogan/Rubin is right, the left are worse then i thought and that nicely styled, slick haired intellectual was so polite and talked a lot about things that made sense to me. Rogan/Rubin didnt say anything bad about them or their opinions either so they must think they are right too. Im gonna start following this guy now too'.

Also you become acclimated to the situation, if they keep having these right wing/alt-right people on without challenging them hard, some fans are gonna start believing that is how the situation should be handled and that any for of challenge is an attack, regardless of how justified it is.
No, i do not think that just looking at this is enough, because that would imply that all of us look at things from a the same perspective.

I agree that extreme ideas should be challenged. Both right and left and on whatever other spectrum you want to look at.
But there are many, many different facets of nuances in ideas and how to challenge them.
Sure Rubin...and pretty much anyone portrays themselves as rational. To the far right, Alex Jones is credible in some ways. I do not think that because Harris (whom i know more about than Rubin for example) likes to say he is "objective" and in the middle makes it true necessarily.
Everyone is biased to a degree. But i would rather have someone who somewhat tries to talk all somewhat reasonable sides (and fails at it sometimes, for example, by talking way more with people leaning right than left), and challenges them when necessary. Now, all of this is subjective, meaning there is no clear answer who is reasonable and who is not and how much X should be challenged.

Bill Maher for example should have challenged Milo way, way, way more back then. Still, i prefer someone like Harris speak to Charles Murray and then to Ezra Klein instead of just with Murray for example.
 
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Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
I've been waiting for someone to make this topic for ages. Dude just lounges around, giving alt right assholes huge exposure on his podcast every week. And just because he smokes weed and goes "whoa, cool, interesting" all the time, people think he's not as extreme as the people he has on all the time. He's an awful role model that a lot of people are falling for.

edit - he's probably not alt right though. Just a fucking idiot
 
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Oct 26, 2017
10,499
UK
I can agree with this. I also think that people sharing dumb ideas isn't scary. Formulate reasonable responses and argue logically why they're wrong, that will do far more good than simply slapping labels on and thinking that is sufficient as a way of refuting their incorrect ideas and statements.

Can you prove that? Can you think of a time when a group of racists who fully believe in the Bell curve suddenly changed their minds when you point out that Murray's peers at the time of it's release debunked it, considering the conclusion to be bias, ignorant, and the thing that led the whole study? The reality is that those who follow Fascism or those who view FOX news as you later pointed out don't give a damn about reality, they shape everything they see around the narrative of the world that they want to believe. What can you do other than deplatforming the people they believe in? Though even if that's impossible in this day and age you're better off not debating them if you're on the other side and giving them credibility.
 

Downhome

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,356
It amuses me greatly that when you search Google for "Joe Rogan is a nazi", "Joe Rogan is alt-right" or any other combo of words, the only real result that pops up is this very thread. A literal echo chamber if I've ever seen one, and a fantastic example of how most people, even online, do not share such extreme opinions such as this elsewhere.

The dude is super liberal on multiple issues. Ok, he is really a libertarian. Not long ago many conservatives weren't a huge fan of his but now they are becoming fans as the left goes even further left than he is and he ends up making more sense. When he has folks on he disagrees with, even if he can be friendly with them, he always calls them out on their bullcrap and Alex Jones is a good example of that. He is constantly challenging his guests, that's what makes his show so solid when he has these various folks on.

Here he is responding to people that say that he is "right wing", and that's not even people saying things as extreme as he is a literal alt-right nazi...



His podcast is still a great listen as well. His episode with Kevin Smith from not that long ago is one of the best episodes of any podcast I've ever heard. Of all the people to call a nazi, or alt-right, I can't believe this guy is the target.

Is EazyOnMe (Ali Nisar) from YT also a nazi or alt-right now?
 

Arkaign

Member
Nov 25, 2017
1,991
Can you prove that? Can you think of a time when a group of racists who fully believe in the Bell curve suddenly changed their minds when you point out that Murray's peers at the time of it's release debunked it, considering the conclusion to be bias, ignorant, and the thing that led the whole study? The reality is that those who follow Fascism or those who view FOX news as you later pointed out don't give a damn about reality, they shape everything they see around the narrative of the world that they want to believe. What can you do other than deplatforming the people they believe in? Though even if that's impossible in this day and age you're better off not debating them if you're on the other side and giving them credibility.

As far as changing minds of the proponents of such views, no, I don't believe that changing them externally is likely or common. People engaging in deeper introspection and humanity, and abandoning such despicable stances is sadly uncommon. Some of that is human nature, people tend to literally HATE being wrong or admitting fault.

The point in engaging from my perspective is more to be a voice of reason and logical/human response for those that might be formulating views, especially those who are young and may not have much life experience yet. Explaining in detail another perspective in a rational manner, with as much real world and relatable elements as possible is something I feel more valuable than simply labelling and refusing to debate.

I can understand the idea behind simply shutting down, but from everything I've read of past heroes that have stood up to injustice, MLK, Malcolm X, Mandela, even RFK, it's a theme to meet the challenge with an informed mind and an outreached hand, should there be hope of spreading themes of overcoming injustice, expanding opportunity, and weakening institutional racism and the architecture of greed.

Maybe both ways of meeting this type of thing are both valuable. Some showing nothing more than contempt and dismissal, others formulating a response to outline the reasons why hateful and fear based views are unsound.

It's not like I'm going to be invited to the podcast or whatever he does, but if someone talks to me about it, I can hold up an argument as to what he misses in the discussion at hand. I think times like these are filled with more than enough anger and easy labelling to begin with. Being a father to 5 and 11yo boys, I have to think carefully about the example I set in discussing issues.

I'm not sure if that clears anything up, but hopefully it is at least a slightly better picture of how I feel :)
 

Wackamole

Member
Oct 27, 2017
16,938
People catchin' feels over Rogan being labeled alt-right are sketchy AF.
Stop this handicapped way of labeling people who don't share your thoughts a 100%. Most people don't give a shit about Joe Rogan but do care about the way this topic is created and treated by people who are astounded that not everyone is lynching Rogan right now:
 

Rivenblade

Member
Nov 1, 2017
37,127
I think he's sympathetic to the people mentioned in this thread, but he's consistently been resistant to being lumped in with terms like "the intellectual dark web" and "the alt-right." He kind of wants to have his cake and eat it too...he wants to avoid being linked with these guys while at the same time still being a sympathetic mouthpiece for them.

In terms of his politics, I'd say his thinking is more classic liberal than anything else, although I understand people's frustrations with him giving a platform to guys like Peterson, whom he just had on again a few months after having him for the first time. I think he's a legitimately curious person who might not fully understand the power that he's giving some of these people. He does take them to task when he really disagrees with them, but it's never in a way that totally shuts them down.
 

Conmex

Banned
May 19, 2018
416
Regardless of political affiliation, Rogan himself supports and gives a platform to those who share "values" with the alt-right in general. He is complacent.
Alt righters also believe in planned economies and a strong safety net. Richard Spencer is a self avowed socialist.
 
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