Usually when they say this they don't mean that you should pray for a president's success, in itself. They mean that you should pray that a leader makes the correct choices, which would be up to God.
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I went to a conservative Christian church yesterday
- Thread starter Mathieran
- Start date
OP
OP
Yeah it could have been worse. There wasn't any calls for violence or anything like that. It just cherry picked history and was full of historic inaccuracy with the goal of making it seem like our country is getting worse as we become more secular and that atheists have no morals, oppress Christians, and are ruining the country. There was also a part that I didn't really bring up when he implied that Christianity should be the only religion allowed in the US.
Aren't the conservative Christians in the US (i.e. mainly right-wing people) largely the reason things are going to shit fast? How many in that church voted D?
From what you said I really don't see what made you angry.
The evolution part was stupid but other than that it sounded like any other Christian service.
The evolution part was stupid but other than that it sounded like any other Christian service.
Bingo.
This is also what happens when someone is placed in an environment that they are completely unfamiliar with and knowingly wont agree with. The same thing would happen if a conservative went to a very liberal church. The same thing would happen to anyone going to a gathering of any other group of people for whatever reason that believed differently than them.
The really bizzarre thing as an European christian is that here the church is all "pray for the people escaping from Africa, Trump and all those who want to close borders are scum, what's happening in the US and the Mediterranean is inhuman" and everybody hates them for it.
It's these kinds of sermons that keep dumb people dumb, voting for other dangerous, dumb people and ultimately cause decades of stagnation for this country. These people provide nothing positive to a modern society.
Yeah that sentence is usually a PC version of "pray that God put some sense in those people" appeal. Which will never make sense to me but it's not the same thing.
Evil men will always try to exploit people with malleable minds. Religion is just one of the easiest tools to do so.
Yea if my in laws ever asked me to go to church I'd probably just chuckle and say no. Idk how you didn't walk out.
I deal with this at least twice a year. You get very good at feigning attention and muting out the political rhetoric that comes with going to a heavily conservative church. I find it equally insane that these same people a year before the election were calling Trump a blowhard and now stand firmly behind him even though he contradicts literally every New Testament Christian tenant imaginable. But hey, better than Democrat in office, amirite?!
Speak of, the one of the most insane conversations I had after the election was in a nursing home after a "sermon" of sorts for the elderly. Donald Trump was going to abolish abortion and kick lazy people off of welfare. He might yet get his wish, even though he lives on government assistance. What a fucking world we live in.
Speak of, the one of the most insane conversations I had after the election was in a nursing home after a "sermon" of sorts for the elderly. Donald Trump was going to abolish abortion and kick lazy people off of welfare. He might yet get his wish, even though he lives on government assistance. What a fucking world we live in.
If you go by what the bible says, then everyone that goes to a mega church is complicit in allowing a few people to become millionaires off the needy. Every person in the congregation is a "sinner" by association if they claim Christianity while allowing it to continue.
That's my 2 cents.
"For the Emperor!"... /s
Sounds like a typical Preacher you see in movies. Though it must be pretty surreal to actually listen to these things in reality. They also always use the same talking points just change them a bit to fit their current time.
Personally I have no experience with such things outside of Warhammer 40k and other games, where it is always funny and a good thing to use because it gives you a loyal and focused nation which you as the leader can direct as you see fit. =x
Honestly, I always struggle to understand how people believe the things you mentioned in the OP.
Sounds like a typical Preacher you see in movies. Though it must be pretty surreal to actually listen to these things in reality. They also always use the same talking points just change them a bit to fit their current time.
Personally I have no experience with such things outside of Warhammer 40k and other games, where it is always funny and a good thing to use because it gives you a loyal and focused nation which you as the leader can direct as you see fit. =x
Honestly, I always struggle to understand how people believe the things you mentioned in the OP.
I remember in high school my friend dragged me to a large baptist church in central Florida because he wanted me to join their youth group. The youth pastor was Mark Hall, who some of you might know as the lead singer of Casting Crowns. A bunch of the youth members had just come back from a camp and so they were having a funeral for their "old selves." They were tasked with bringing in anything that would cause them to sin and throw it in an actual casket that the church had prepared. I remember snagging a copy of Resident Evil 2 for PS from the casket before they lit that shit on fire. There was so much awesome stuff in that casket.
I never did join that baptist church. I did go to a Methodist church for many years and they never once got political. They mostly just told us not to be dicks to each other, even though it's hard.
I never did join that baptist church. I did go to a Methodist church for many years and they never once got political. They mostly just told us not to be dicks to each other, even though it's hard.
I'm in this sort of space. I'm a religious person, Christian myself, but I don't really... go to church. A lot of it has to do with some personal stuff I go through, but I also just tend to find myself disillusioned with the state of most churches these days. I was actually really heartened when I was a strong religious presence in the Families Belong Together rally I went to on Saturday-- interfaith coalition participation. People from churches actually talking about how this land was stolen, about how gross it was for Sessions to use scripture to justify what he was doing. One thing I'd suggest, if you want to find a church that's like that, is to look for a church with a large minority population. Whether racial or sexual minorities. Unsurprisingly, it turns out this kind of rhetoric ends up having divisions along racial lines.
OP
OP
I'm angry because everything I detailed in my post is the stereotypical playbook of right wing conservative and it's effective and that pisses me off seeing a bunch of people nodding their heads and shouting amen to every historically inaccurate and demonstrably false statement that passes the pastor's lips.
Everything in that sermon paints a picture of all non Christians as people ruining America and oppressing Christians. People like myself.
It's one thing to see this on tv or read it in the news but it's another to be in the room while it happens.
I don't know why this wouldn't make someone mad.
I chuckled once during it when I was with my last girlfriend. It felt like everybody was looking at me as if they are from a cult, felt pretty weird. xD
It has good uses in games and if you want to wage war, outside of that it isn't that useful. Though such brainwashing makes ruling much easier. Stuff like Zealots are great units.
All fun in games but in reality it is pretty scary. =/
As you say "zealotry" is the right word for it, goes far beyond "believe" in general.
You ever notice all these conservative churches seem to preach fear and hate? I had a childhood friend who was home schooled and raised on one of those super strict churches (I can't remember what denomination) but all he ever talked about was satan and how he wants to trick us, never about love, peace, or understanding. Fear is a hell of a way to mind fuck someone and keep them engaged in your bullshit.
OP, I encourage you to call the pastor on the phone if you are serious about talking. I'm sure he would love to talk to you (as would I).
It's common for most pastors to take Monday off, but I'm guessing he will be in the office tomorrow.
It's common for most pastors to take Monday off, but I'm guessing he will be in the office tomorrow.
User warned: antagonistic drive-by, not reading OP
Goes to church and gets upset that they talk about god. I go to chipotle and get mad they sell burritos.
If you would have objected to his claims of god in the middle of service, it'd be like a reverse God's not dead lol.
If you would have objected to his claims of god in the middle of service, it'd be like a reverse God's not dead lol.
I go to a church that can be described as apolitical in nature, but with a membership that obviously skews conservative. Most members don't support Donald Trump, but do support the office of the Presidency. I am happy that most people I interact with aren't stark raving mad "(R) or die" type people, but most put abortion as the number one thing they are against, which unfortunately means they have been led to believe that voting R is what makes sense. I have been sowing seeds of doubt in the congregation for years now, and have noticed that there are a fair amount of liberal-leaning members now. We are also people who put a strong emphasis on caring for the sick and poor. Not your typical "pro-life before birth, your shit out of luck after birth" mentality. We have sponsored refugees multiple times, as well.
I was horrified last time I went to a service. Sermon was just misogyny, tribalism, homophobia, and weird sexual obsessions with purity
Yeah, from Europe these churches always seem like out of a game, novel, movie or whatever. The cult character is always worrying.
OP
OP
I might do that. Thanks.
I am not atheist so I actually don't have a problem with a church talking about god and if you had bothered reading the thread you would know that's not the case.
Churches like those are why atheism has been on the rise. I go to a more progressive church thank God.
Yeesh.
I grew up in Southern Baptist Church land, but thankfully while I'm sure the pastor would have talked your ear off about the evils of homosexuality or whatever in private, he at least kept the public sermons to actual biblical review and never brought politics to the pulpit.
This was the 80/90's, though.
I grew up in Southern Baptist Church land, but thankfully while I'm sure the pastor would have talked your ear off about the evils of homosexuality or whatever in private, he at least kept the public sermons to actual biblical review and never brought politics to the pulpit.
This was the 80/90's, though.
I went to a Southern Baptist service once and it was fine and friendly and almost "fun" until the sermon.
I came very close to walking out, but I left angry and probably beet red I was so mad with what un-Christian garbage the sermon was that was a shade away from hate speech.
The modern US churches are full of hypocrites who think they can show up on Sunday pray away the bad in their life and then spend the rest of the day and week not lifting a finger to help others. Then have the audacity to look down upon activists out trying to help those in need.
That is mortifying.
I went to a friend's church last night for a fireworks show and dinner and I'd do that for him and not many others. He's Mexican and the majority of the church was white in attendance, though I saw school projects from a mix race of children. I still felt really weird during the Star Spangled Banner. I was just thinking the whole time that I wanted it to be over so I can get cake. I hate how many bitter thoughts I had because everyone was really sweet all in all.
I went to a friend's church last night for a fireworks show and dinner and I'd do that for him and not many others. He's Mexican and the majority of the church was white in attendance, though I saw school projects from a mix race of children. I still felt really weird during the Star Spangled Banner. I was just thinking the whole time that I wanted it to be over so I can get cake. I hate how many bitter thoughts I had because everyone was really sweet all in all.
One of the last times I ever attended church, there was a guest pastor. This was about 15 years ago now, but what I remember of the sermon was basically just mocking various scientific studies and laughing about how God is "confounding the idiots." We aren't meant to understand the intricacies of the universe. Advancements in science, technology, and medicine are things to be sneered at and shunned. The only time he bothered to mention the Bible at all in this sermon was to reiterate that everything we need to know about the world was contained within that book
Sometimes I think about that guy and wonder if he ever realized the irony of delivering this message via microphone.
Sometimes I think about that guy and wonder if he ever realized the irony of delivering this message via microphone.
You have higher morals than that of the Church most likely. Nothing wrong with those thoughts. Many of those people are "nice people"...but many of them are racists/bigots/sexist despite how "nice" they are.
The couple I went to were very heavy on the "women submit to your husband" and not taking authority over a man. There was absolutely zero about finding your own identity or being your own person. The entire discussions were framed entirely around men and that our value was basically tied to the type of husband we could get and the babies we could give him. That and a lot of purity bs and romanticizing that in a weird way, shaming women who werent pure as being damaged or dirty. (which was fucked up to me, I was molested when I was little and lost my virginity at 14 and was actively having premarital sex with bf). Also heavy implications that you don't respect yourself and are inviting others to disrespect you if you show too much skin in the way you dress
There was also a disturbing amount of defense being played for men who cheat. Basically the whole "It's your fault your guy cheated on you because you nag him or else don't give him sex enough."
OP, here's some advice: you have two options 1. have an assertive conversation with your wife that you won't go to church with her family, or 2. go to church with her family and suck it up.
I feel for you about your experience, but you have to figure out how much it means to your wife that you go to church with her family.
I feel for you about your experience, but you have to figure out how much it means to your wife that you go to church with her family.
This highlights why apologists for religion disgust me. Believe whatever you want privately, but in defending your favorite irrational belief system you can't help but defend brain-addling propaganda machines like that church. They're the inevitable result of people's tribal nature. Our cravings for direction, community, certainty, purpose, an enemy to unite against...
People are stupid enough without regular doses of this weaponized ignorance. No wonder this country is being overrun by intolerant morons. They're churned out a dime a dozen by these tax evading houses of lies.
People are stupid enough without regular doses of this weaponized ignorance. No wonder this country is being overrun by intolerant morons. They're churned out a dime a dozen by these tax evading houses of lies.
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I am going to guess this pastor does not have a degree in theology or other areas that would be associated with his position. First he padded his lecture with 15 minutes of music, and then the actual lecture didnt even go into any critical studies. He only has do this once or twice a week, right? That is plenty of time to plan for it.
OP
OP
Yeah that more or less my experience. It's baffling to see seemingly nice and reasonable people sit there listening and agreeing with this crap.
I am starting to feel morally obligated to say something. Maybe at the very least he will fact check himself next time he speaks to a group of people.
Yeah I've gotten to the point where I automatically feel uncomfortable at any patriotic or religious event until it seems okay. I have no patience for hyper patriotism or blind religious fanaticism.
Wild... Evangelical churches man, they're something else.
Evangelical Christians aren't the reason things are going to shit, but most of them aren't helping. Can't blame the world's troubles on one religious denomination, but most southern evangelical conservative churches aren't helping things, either.
Evangelical Christians aren't the reason things are going to shit, but most of them aren't helping. Can't blame the world's troubles on one religious denomination, but most southern evangelical conservative churches aren't helping things, either.
I have 2 pentecostal pastors in my family.
One is very pacifist and preaches a message of love and peace. The other is a quasi-evangelical and sounds pretty similar to what you describe.
Zionists are the main problem here. They've become an even more dangerous group now that Donald Trump has appointed himself their leader by legitimizing Israel's claim over Jerusalem.
One is very pacifist and preaches a message of love and peace. The other is a quasi-evangelical and sounds pretty similar to what you describe.
Zionists are the main problem here. They've become an even more dangerous group now that Donald Trump has appointed himself their leader by legitimizing Israel's claim over Jerusalem.
Thanks for expanding on that.
I mean damn.
That is a real short hop skip and jump away from the Red Centre scenes in the recent series of The Handmaid's Tale. To think this kinda thing is being espoused in modern society is terrifying.There are scores of young women who will be shaped by these kinds of teachings.
The closest Ive heard a catholic priest get political is when he said to pray for the troops. That really annoyed me, as if god picked a side in this war(it was during iraq war). But I gave him the benefit of the doubt and thought maybe he just meant it was a general everyone should be safe.
OP
OP
It's not something that will happen very often. Like once a year tops. She doesn't like it either but I think the mere act of not going would cause problems. I can suck it up, I just need to make sure my kids don't hear it. I grew up in conservative country this isn't anything new to me. It's just been a long time and never went to any of the churches before. Also I didn't have the life experience I have now.
I went to their website earlier to find some info and they didn't have this pastor's information listed anywhere. I think he must be new because it had an old pastor's information listed.
I legit could not marry someone whose parents subscribe to the crazy.
Don't get me wrong, of course I'd be blown. And of course I'd be upset that I'd be losing someone amazing.
But I legit refuse to merge my family with the Looney Tunes. I couldn't do it. And I wouldnt be the jerkoff to expect my wife to cut off her family either.
And why I would take this stance is because it's impossible to expect someone to hear years of that fluff and not have a bigoted worldview.
Don't get me wrong, of course I'd be blown. And of course I'd be upset that I'd be losing someone amazing.
But I legit refuse to merge my family with the Looney Tunes. I couldn't do it. And I wouldnt be the jerkoff to expect my wife to cut off her family either.
And why I would take this stance is because it's impossible to expect someone to hear years of that fluff and not have a bigoted worldview.
On topic:
I remember an old neogaf thread that posted an article of how young Muslims in Germany were having a hard time finding a mosque because the majority if them are so conservative. If I recall the full article correctly, it is apparently hard to find church/mosque leaders with actual educational credentials. (I tried to find the thread but I only found one about Minnesota, which was different). I presume the same occurs with Christian churches. The more highly educated pastors are probably not going to be found within conservative communities.