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jviggy43

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,184
It's a mechanic in an arsenal of tools. It's no more a cover shooter than MGS4 is. Just because you can hug a wall and shoot from behind it doesn't make it like Gears where it is the primary, essential and arguably only mechanic.

Further to that, neither Joel or Ellie are meant to be highly skilled military operatives. They aren't supposed to be shooting from cover to cover with roadie runs, headshotting and decimating hoardes of enemies. It is a game designed to make you feel like every fight is a resource limited scrap for survival and it is effective at it
This is such a silly argument. I ran through MGS3 without doing any stealth, just running and gunning. Is MGS3 now no longer a stealth game because stealth is merely a mechanic in an arsenal of tools? Absolutely not. Whether its the games primary gameplay mechanic or not (and again note how it very well could be) is irrelevant if its included in as a gameplay mechanic. You could play TLOU just as much as a cover based shooter as you could with gears. The fact gears came out seven years prior and managed to, at the time, perfect cover shooting while TLOU lagged so far behind thereafter is a negative on the gameplay experience.

The second part means nothing to me because again, you very well could run through the game like that if you were skilled enough and essentially make them highly skilled military operatives. Your entire argument is predicated on the idea that because the game offers alternatives to playstyles that the playstyles in question get a pass for not being as fluid or up to date as games that have done it better several years prior to the game releasing. Which is silly, if you include a mechanic in your game, I'm going to evaluate it as a mechanic based on other systems with similar mechanics-regardless of alternative playstyles. And in that regard, it felt antiquated and why many people bring up gameplay as a weakness of the title. Others might not feel that way and thats fine. But it certainly doesn't get a pass from criticism because of alternative playstyles. If you feel that way by all means but I'm not going to keep arguing about it because frankly I find that to be an absurd position to take.
 

Jader7777

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,211
Australia
Maybe reading the fucking article and thread would help. I have a feeling these two things might help you get a better picture.

Here's the entire article made e-z for anyone to read:

The Last of Us is ... very much about ... a 15-hour journey of stealth and shooting.

Here's my addendum "Don't forget the ladder puzzles! And multiplayer!!"

I couldn't find the 'hug ellie' button or the "tell ellie everything will be okay" feature. People like to think the game is about some sort of story about family or whatever; the game occurs in a vacuum of bricks to the head and cover-based shooting. You can strip away all the game and just watch a few cut scenes strung together for the same experience. Don't lie to me about it being some grand citizen kane of gaming: all ground it covers has been covered before and it's too bad most 'gamers' don't have the literacy to see that.
 

Deleted member 2321

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
I'd really love that, actually. There is not a single shred of merit to be found in nigh on any of the comments decrying this game to be average or whatever issue they have with it. We get it, you personally didn't like the game. I don't see how this adds anything to the discussion. You can make the point for discussion around release time to include criticism, in that this can help developers find out what people did or didn't like about the game. But this isn't what the negative nancies in this thread are or have ever wanted to accomplish with their mostly asinine validation-seeking borderline-shitposts. Like, for example, the parking garage one. Or "Uncharted reskined with zombies". I mean come on huh. Do we really NEED this?

Criticism, negativity, and sharing your opinions about things you expressly don't like are all things that receive far too much undue praise. Why can't we have one thread that's just positive? What's bad about that? Just enjoy what you enjoy, and leave the rest by the wayside. I don't go into thread about things I don't like, and I don't get what people get out of it.

And if you're coming in here with your negative opinions, at least have one shred of intellectual honesty in you. Not talking to you specifically, just in general.

Disagree with all of this.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
Here's the entire article made e-z for anyone to read:

Here's my addendum "Don't forget the ladder puzzles! And multiplayer!!"

I couldn't find the 'hug ellie' button or the "tell ellie everything will be okay" feature. People like to think the game is about some sort of story about family or whatever; the game occurs in a vacuum of bricks to the head and cover-based shooting. You can strip away all the game and just watch a few cut scenes strung together for the same experience. Don't lie to me about it being some grand citizen kane of gaming: all ground it covers has been covered before and it's too bad most 'gamers' don't have the literacy to see that.
We don't need this article to tell us what you're trying to reduce this game down to.

Maybe go back and read the content of the reviews that were written in 2013, and also the reviews that were written in 2014. Then maybe you could help us to "see the light" by reducing meaningful praise to something that fits this narrative that an exceptional game is actually not exceptional 5 years later, nor ever was.

"Uncharted reskin with zombies" is probably one of the most reductive ways I've seen someone try to downplay how The Last of Us stands on its own, given it has distinctive mechanics that set it apart from Uncharted. It's transparently disingenuous and intellectually dishonest.
 
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Deleted member 2321

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
I personally think you'd have to be a real asshole to go into a thread just to share a negative opinion. Where's the merit in that? Who gains what?

Also entirely disagree with that.

And I'm offended by it.

You are literally calling me an asshole.

For not liking a game as much as you want me to and sharing my opinion.
 

Moose the Mooche

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,538
Netherlands
Yes, i think TLOU is the best game i have ever played. Its just bizarre how much feelings it got out of me in this 15-18 hours journey and how with so little gameplay variety it made me feel like i had done sooo much at the credits.

Its not the most replayable game for me. When i am replaying it i can see the points its getting old and honestly it doenst do it justice. Some stuff better remains to be seen/played a couple of times, maybe just one, to let it keep its magic. Its to linear for replaying. Ofc thats just my opinion.

Off-topic: could ppl who hates on the game please leave? Its annoying as hell to see the same arguments come by in every thread abt this game, or any populair game in particulair, i understand and recognize that its important to have ppl to show its faults but its been 5 years or something, we know its flaws so let us love for it for what it is.
I dont come around and shit in every Star Wars thread because the movies absolutely didnt do shit for me.
 

Horned Reaper

Member
Nov 7, 2017
1,560
Poster: *Opens thread*
Ellie: "Shit, you really gonna go in there?!
Poster: "I wanna see what I can find..."
Ellie: "You're gonna find my body when I die from a heartattack."
Poster: "It'll be fine..."
project-68-sustainable-salt-storage-solutions-5-chi-salt-dome-120peoria-interior-1.jpg
 

Moose the Mooche

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,538
Netherlands
This is not how a discussion forum does or should work.

I find you and others trying to shut up people with different opinions pretty disgusting behavior TBH.

Disgusting behavior? Really? Okay... lol.
Like i said... i recognize its importance to have people show the flaws on a general accepted Masterpiece.. but you dont get tired to come up with the same complains in every Damn topic?

What you said abt how discussion forum should work is 100% correct tho. Thanx for that correction :)
 

Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,176
Off-topic: could ppl who hates on the game please leave? Its annoying as hell to see the same arguments come by in every thread abt this game, or any populair game in particulair, i understand and recognize that its important to have ppl to show its faults but its been 5 years or something, we know its flaws so let us love for it for what it is.
I dont come around and shit in every Star Wars thread because the movies absolutely didnt do shit for me.

If you feel a post is a drive-by with no substance, feel free to report. Otherwise, people are more than welcome to share their opinions of a video game, positive or negative, within the rules outlined in our FAQ.
 

Moose the Mooche

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,538
Netherlands
If you feel a post is a drive-by with no substance, feel free to report. Otherwise, people are more than welcome to share their opinions of a video game, positive or negative, within the rules outlined in our FAQ.

I dont want to use the report button for opinions of others. Only if they are super offensive and i dont think any of these posts are that.
I guess my post was a bit short-sighted and written out of annoyment... sorry for that folks..
 

John Bender

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,058
Im not surprised by the typical hater bumping up this thread.

Also i 100% believe people who think the game-play is not good are used to crutches like, aim assist, snap on shooting, and magnetize bullets to make them feel like like a MLG pro....but once you take off all safety wheels and force people to think fist and try to force them to use every tool at their disposal then people immediately get frustrated by dying to clickers a over and over and take way to long to aim and shoot at enemies then they blame the game for being boring and having bad game-play.

But hey, a game has gotten hundreds of 10/10 reviews, sold a freaking ton for a new IP and still getting masterpiece buzz years later and people still try and have you believe the game is not good. They just can't accept it's them and not the game.
That's what happens when you're the king =)
Naughty Dog deserves all he praise they get. They created a masterpiece and for a huge amount of gamers out there... the best game ever.
 
Oct 30, 2017
9,200
The Last of Us is indeed a timeless masterpiece... as Final Fantasy VII and Resident Evil Remake and many great other games that the history will always remember them as one of the best games of all time.
 
Oct 29, 2017
2,986
Well, I think it's a masterpiece. It's so amazingly polished like a world built by Rockstar. It also came at a time when pretentious shallow stories with weak, mindless gameplay was proclaimed as the advent of art in gaming (Bioshock Infinite).

No Mans Sky was revolutionary, but not a masterpiece. The Last of Us was not revolutionary, yet it is a masterpiece.
 

nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
Im not surprised by the typical hater bumping up this thread.

Also i 100% believe people who think the game-play is not good are used to crutches like, aim assist, snap on shooting, and magnetize bullets to make them feel like like a MLG pro....but once you take off all safety wheels and force people to think fist and try to force them to use every tool at their disposal then people immediately get frustrated by dying to clickers a over and over and take way to long to aim and shoot at enemies then they blame the game for being boring and having bad game-play.

But hey, a game has gotten hundreds of 10/10 reviews, sold a freaking ton for a new IP and still getting masterpiece buzz years later and people still try and have you believe the game is not good. They just can't accept it's them and not the game.

That's one aspect I find amusing about some of the criticism the combat in ND games get from some. Many gamers often talk about wanting broader gameplay systems and skill based options, and when ND actually provide it, by offering more dynamic and layered combat environments, more approach and combat options, a greater variety of tools, on the fly crafting etc, plus a big reward factor in skill mastery, some gamers aren't so keen on it.

Ultimately the diversity and effectiveness of the combat is largely down to player creativity and skill, something not all third person shooters can as easily boast, since several are far more simplistic in terms of range of mechanics, options and systems, and don't necessarily offer near as much freedom of choice or combat diversity, not to mention have as high a skill ceiling to begin with, partly because of that.

An aspect that I feel highlights this and that I really enjoy about a lot of ND games is that they tend to reward aiming precision and competency by having high headshot multipliers. In other words, even the scrubbiest of weapons in the game kills the majority of enemies in just 1-2 headshots (eg a 9mm vs humans, runners and stalkers, a revolver vs clickers or armoured humans). That really adds to the 'make every shot count' mantra and rewards higher skill players, especially when resources, bullets etc can often be quite scarce. Granted precision aiming is harder before you get the sway reduction upgrades, which again, opens up that skill ceiling, since early on you're having to compensate for a lot more sway.
 
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Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
User Banned (2 days): Thread policing, dismissing other users opinions. Ignoring mod instructions.
Disagree with all of this.
I really don't think your criticism, if you can call it that, added anything of substance to the thread. Exemplified by the fact that your post bemoaning people wanting to keep things "positive" outnumber those about the game 7:1. Not that I'm better in that particular case, but you get my point.

And in regards to the asshole thing, it's not so much that you're an asshole, but rather that the act of purposefully going into a thread about something you have nothing but bad things to say about is an assholeish thing to do. Like, seriously. Imagine if this discussion were to happen in real life. Could be about anything. Would you seriously like it when people constantly come up with the most superficial reasons to not like something? Like, just people sharing the opinion "I don't like it"? Do you really see any merit in that? If so, I'd love to know what exactly it is. Because personally, I think negative people are annoying as hell, and find no merit in the mere act of sharing what you don't like about something. And I don't see why that needs to be different on a message board.

TLOU is a great game that a lot of people love. That doesn't mean that everyone needs to love it, or even like it at all, because even the greatest things have their detractors. If you have some insightful criticism, great, share it, and let's discuss it. But is "plays clunky, enemy AI issues, pacing issues, best part is the beginning, ending is a design failure" that? That genuinely looks like you had 20 seconds while on the shitter, and you had to hurry to get your negative opinion in. Again, is this you wanting to engage in meaningful conversation? Did this really NEED to be said?

Bottom line to anything though, what's wrong with having one thread just celebrating the positive things about something?
 
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Deleted member 2321

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,555
I really don't think your criticism, if you can call it that, added anything of substance to the thread. Exemplified by the fact that your post bemoaning people wanting to keep things "positive" outnumber those about the game 7:1. Not that I'm better in that particular case, but you get my point.

And in regards to the asshole thing, it's not so much that you're an asshole, but rather that the act of purposefully going into a thread about something you have nothing but bad things to say about is an assholeish thing to do. Like, seriously. Imagine if this discussion were to happen in real life. Could be about anything. Would you seriously like it when people constantly come up with the most superficial reasons to not like something? Like, just people sharing the opinion "I don't like it"? Do you really see any merit in that? If so, I'd love to know what exactly it is. Because personally, I think negative people are annoying as hell, and find no merit in the mere act of sharing what you don't like about something. And I don't see why that needs to be different on a message board.

TLOU is a great game that a lot of people love. That doesn't mean that everyone needs to love it, or even like it at all, because even the greatest things have their detractors. If you have some insightful criticism, great, share it, and let's discuss it. But is "plays clunky, enemy AI issues, pacing issues, best part is the beginning, ending is a design failure" that? That genuinely looks like you had 20 seconds while on the shitter, and you had to hurry to get your negative opinion in. Again, is this you wanting to engage in meaningful conversation?

Bottom line to anything though, what's wrong with having one thread just celebrating the positive things about something?

No, I don't get your point.

This is a discussion forum.

All opinions are valid.

Your attempts to shut down everybody who disagrees goes against everything this platform is for and about.
 

Heckler456

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,256
Belgium
No, I don't get your point.

This is a discussion forum.

All opinions are valid.

Your attempts to shut down everybody who disagrees goes against everything this platform is for and about.
You're not really answering any of my questions, or really engaging with my post at all. Which is quite indicative.

Is that parking garage opinion valid? Is that "Uncharted reskinwith zombies" opinion valid? Why do you dismiss my opinion about worthless opinions out of hand when all opinions are valid?
 

Dragoon

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
11,231
Yes, i think TLOU is the best game i have ever played. Its just bizarre how much feelings it got out of me in this 15-18 hours journey and how with so little gameplay variety it made me feel like i had done sooo much at the credits.

Its not the most replayable game for me. When i am replaying it i can see the points its getting old and honestly it doenst do it justice. Some stuff better remains to be seen/played a couple of times, maybe just one, to let it keep its magic. Its to linear for replaying. Ofc thats just my opinion.

Off-topic: could ppl who hates on the game please leave? Its annoying as hell to see the same arguments come by in every thread abt this game, or any populair game in particulair, i understand and recognize that its important to have ppl to show its faults but its been 5 years or something, we know its flaws so let us love for it for what it is.
I dont come around and shit in every Star Wars thread because the movies absolutely didnt do shit for me.
This is not this works. If you want a safe space for your favorite game, don't go online or talk to other people who played it. TLOU is one of the goat games for me, but it makes no sense telling people not to add their POVs just because it's not hugely positive.
 

Canucked

Comics Council 2020 & Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Canada
This is not this works. If you want a safe space for your favorite game, don't go online or talk to other people who played it. TLOU is one of the goat games for me, but it makes no sense telling people not to add their POVs just because it's not hugely positive.

Negative opinions on the game is fine. Attacking forum posters and fans is not, which is what this thread has been straddling. Mods are appreciated.
 

wagmarwigmir

Banned
Jan 16, 2018
38
Interesting take

Infected city falling into chaos = parking garage
Quarantined city = parking garage
Town full of traps = parking garage
City overrun by rebels = parking garage
Wilderness on horseback = parking garage
Winter wilderness = cold parking garage
University = parking garage
Sewers and tunnels overrun with infected = parking garage
Giraffe = large cars in parking garage
Hospital = parking garage

and somehow none of those environments were memorable.
 

En-ou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,839
Was that the only parts of the game you played? I mean the first time I played the game it took me about 18 hours and I'm sure I didn't spend the whole time moving fallen ladders
Of course not
But way too many similar actions are just filler and I don't see it as masterpiece in the gameplay dept. many entire sections you simply walk and gather items.
 

Moose the Mooche

User-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
1,538
Netherlands
This is not this works. If you want a safe space for your favorite game, don't go online or talk to other people who played it. TLOU is one of the goat games for me, but it makes no sense telling people not to add their POVs just because it's not hugely positive.

Dude i already said sorry for being short-sighted... dont need to lecture me beyond that. Thank you kindly.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
In what way were the environments good?
They are far more varied than you tried to insinuate, and they represented the journey that Joel and Ellie went through in a realistic manner, especially with the liberties Naughty Dog took to design them for a scenario where nature has reclaimed buildings and other artificial structures. If you wanted fantasy environments, it's easy to conclude this game is not for you. Other people in this thread have made a far greater effort to provide reasoning for their arguments than you have thus far, with really shallow criticisms that barely make sense or can be justified.
 
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wagmarwigmir

Banned
Jan 16, 2018
38
They are far more varied than you tried to insinuate, and they represented the journey that Joel and Ellie went through in a realistic manner, especially with the liberties Naughty Dog took to design them for a scenario where nature has reclaimed buildings and other artificial structures. If you wanted fantasy environments, it's easy to conclude this game is not for you. Other people in this thread have made a far greater effort to provide reasoning for their arguments than you have thus far, with really shallow criticisms that barely make sense or can be justified.

No one has provided reasoning to me. Ive only been called a liar because I thought the game was thoroughly boring. Key words here is "I thought". As in My opinion. Yes the environment are technically pretty, but as far as game levels go they all felt the same. When I said every level was a parking garage I obviously didn't mean it, but to me every level felt the exact same.
 

Canucked

Comics Council 2020 & Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Canada
To me the winter streets didn't feel like the forest or the restaurant.

Which felt different from the summer capital building which get different from the zone with the NPCs. Then there's the hotel.

The school in Autumn had a different tone altogether and felt open and wonderous.

I guess you can find that boring but what more do you want from a real world game?
 

nycgamer4ever

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
861
Of course not
But way too many similar actions are just filler and I don't see it as masterpiece in the gameplay dept. many entire sections you simply walk and gather items.

Man I thank the stars most of you are not developers... Very clearly some on here just watched the let's play. If you would have played the game you would know there is no way you can keep up the intensity of the action and stealth gameplay for the entirety of the game which took me 18 hours. And on top of that I think you are mixing up gameplay and pacing. The moment to moment gameplay is sublime. Just play the multiplayer which strips the game of all story and pacing and is just gameplay. It's fantastic.
 
Oct 25, 2017
11,181
I've seen nothing but people grow increasingly of the opinion that "No, yeah. It's actually really okay in retrospect. Not the masterpiece we said it was."
That's probably because you are more likely to hear negative opinions after the fact and also, since you never thought it was a masterpiece, are more inclined to recall the opinions you agree with. I haven't bothered to go around posting and reiterating my thoughts on The Last of Us.

IMO it remains a masterpiece. But I also haven't played it in the last couple years - dude for a replay.
 

PspLikeANut

Free
Member
May 20, 2018
2,598
If anything this game is underrated. Especially the amazing multiplayer which i was a part of. whether people like it or not, this game has an important place in our gaming history.
 
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Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
No one has provided reasoning to me. Ive only been called a liar because I thought the game was thoroughly boring. Key words here is "I thought". As in My opinion. Yes the environment are technically pretty, but as far as game levels go they all felt the same. When I said every level was a parking garage I obviously didn't mean it, but to me every level felt the exact same.
No one's provided reasoning to you about the environments? Well I think given your original comment about the parking garage, people have given you the answer you can't not have been expecting. I'm perfectly fine with the opinion that the environments were boring given it's what you think, but I personally cannot see how Naughty Dog didn't absolutely nail the environmental design given the backdrop of the game. It's very clear how different the environments are from one another, so it's weird to hear someone say they're just "all the same" or "feel the same". The atmosphere and landscape of Bill's Town is very different from The University which is very different from Jacksonville, and the Winter chapter is just something else entirely. When you say not memorable, maybe it's because they didn't stand out to you? Well that's just realism for you, something that Naughty Dog kinda admitted they were going for when designing the game. Joel and Ellie both look like normal people under the wear and tear of survival, doesn't mean their character design is boring.
 
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En-ou

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,839
Man I thank the stars most of you are not developers... Very clearly some on here just watched the let's play. If you would have played the game you would know there is no way you can keep up the intensity of the action and stealth gameplay for the entirety of the game which took me 18 hours. And on top of that I think you are mixing up gameplay and pacing. The moment to moment gameplay is sublime. Just play the multiplayer which strips the game of all story and pacing and is just gameplay. It's fantastic.
I played the game start to finish. And gameplay is the weakest as far as single player goes. As I player I want gameplay over anything else. I have pretty high standards.
 

wagmarwigmir

Banned
Jan 16, 2018
38
No one's provided reasoning to you about the environments? Well I think given your original comment about the parking garage, people have given you the answer you can't not have been expecting. I'm perfectly fine with the opinion that the environments were boring given it's what you think, but I personally cannot see how Naughty Dog didn't absolutely nail the environmental design given the backdrop of the game. It's very clear how different the environments are from one another, so it's weird to hear someone say they're just "all the same" or "feel the same". The atmosphere and landscape of Bill's Town is very different from The University which is very different from Jacksonville, and the Winter chapter is just something else entirely. When you say not memorable, maybe it's because they didn't stand out to you? Well that's just realism for you, something that Naughty Dog kinda admitted they were going for when designing the game. Joel and Ellie both look like normal people under the wear and tear of survival, doesn't mean their character design is boring.

Maybe Im not explaining this too well. The environments all feel the same game play wise, as in every level feels the same. Its always the same thing every chapter. The game play is my main grievance with the game.
 

Canucked

Comics Council 2020 & Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,414
Canada
Maybe Im not explaining this too well. The environments all feel the same game play wise, as in every level feels the same. Its always the same thing every chapter. The game play is my main grievance with the game.

Sure it's always a stealth-shooter-survival game. Whatever you wanna call it. Do you want different mechanics? Like a car section? Different scenarios are there. Summer is a run, fall is explore, winter is survive (and very different even adding a blizzard and a boss that requires some stealth) and spring is a series of gauntlets.
 

Iwao

Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,776
Maybe Im not explaining this too well. The environments all feel the same game play wise, as in every level feels the same. Its always the same thing every chapter. The game play is my main grievance with the game.
I would be disappointed if I bought a Call of Duty or Halo game and you didn't shoot things throughout, given that it's an FPS.

With the way the AI is designed in the TLoU, it actually helps each enemy encounter feel different and allows for some more emergent situations in gameplay. Some areas of the game are very explorative with a lot of environmental storytelling, and some are near enough completely combative. The areas with different infected types require different strategies and feel different because of that. There are some areas you can completely avoid enemy confrontation and some that you cannot. There are some areas where you have to use environmental queues to progress (some call these puzzles, but I don't think they are). If you're low on ammo or supplies, that changes how you might choose to approach gameplay. So there is variety and it isn't "always the same thing every chapter" - another false claim - but given that it's a narrative driven stealth-action game, you would expect there to be quite a bit of that in the game, would you not?