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FPX

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
2,273
Since a lot of people are sharing ideas on how things would work if Ajna dies, I'm going to share our current thinking on it.

The current thinking for Ajna's death is along these lines:
  • When Ajna dies, Iddhi will be reduced and Ajna will lie on the ground
  • Every few seconds, she'll pulse and drain a bit of the remaining Iddhi
  • When the Iddhi reaches zero, it'll be game over
From here, there are three ways to revive her:
  1. Winning the battle before all Iddhi is gone will win the battle and revive her
  2. Using a super that can revive will revive her
  3. Filling the Iddhi back up to to three bars will revive her, and empty the Iddhi
Basically, we want something similar to VP's system, but because you might not have a healer and we don't have items to fall back on, we needed an additional mechanic to bring her back.

I personally dig those ideas. Normally it wouldn't be too hard getting three bars, but you have to fight the slow drain as well while she's incapacitated. Would suck if you start with nearly zero Iddhi when she goes down, unless the drain only starts 5 seconds later or something. But hey, that's the risk of letting your character die; I like the idea that the main character in an rpg should be the priority to keep alive.
 

Deleted member 1258

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,914
Encountered a bug where if Razmi gets attack by two different flying head things that are both performing a grab, the game crashes
 

Godcannon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
545
USA
Since a lot of people are sharing ideas on how things would work if Ajna dies, I'm going to share our current thinking on it.

The current thinking for Ajna's death is along these lines:
  • When Ajna dies, Iddhi will be reduced and Ajna will lie on the ground
  • Every few seconds, she'll pulse and drain a bit of the remaining Iddhi
  • When the Iddhi reaches zero, it'll be game over
From here, there are three ways to revive her:
  1. Winning the battle before all Iddhi is gone will win the battle and revive her
  2. Using a super that can revive will revive her
  3. Filling the Iddhi back up to to three bars will revive her, and empty the Iddhi
Basically, we want something similar to VP's system, but because you might not have a healer and we don't have items to fall back on, we needed an additional mechanic to bring her back.

I like the concept, but trying to hit 3 bars without it draining is tough enough with less characters. I, myself, could actually have a chance if it was one bar reduced to the size of two combined. Unless that's what you mean by the Iddhi is reduced? When she is KOd what happens if you have 0 Iddhi? Is there a different color bar to represent the timer? I don't think I fully understand.
 
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Oct 30, 2017
31
Holy shit, I don't know how I missed the Backer Preview coming out, but I'm fucking hype! I went in on this at $125, on the strength of Skullgirls alone (didn't start out that high, but I really cared about getting us across that line back during the initial campaign)

Now I'll just have to figure out what to do with myself until the download finishes...

And ignore the fact that I should really sleep, because I've got class in 7.5 hours. Wheeeeeeee....

EDIT: Impressions after clearing it once: Game is absolutely fantastic. It feels even better than the original beta, which I already loved. I didn't run into any bugs, but we'll see what happens on subsequent runs.

I do have a couple of questions, though.

First, is there any way to change the binding for the FPS counter? Unless I'm totally crazy, hitting F12 brings up the yellow FPS counter, which is really annoying for taking screenshots of how gorgeous the game is. I know I could just rebind the screenshot button, but is there any way to change this?

My second and third questions might just entirely be due to me being dumb, and missing a tutorial, or something: what does Dhar's down attack do, and what do the blue crystals do (I figured out that the red heals everyone)?

Like I said, I'm loving the build, and looking forward to getting back to it when I don't have impending classes to deal with.
 
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Ravidrath

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
297
Los Angeles, CA
First, is there any way to change the binding for the FPS counter? Unless I'm totally crazy, hitting F12 brings up the yellow FPS counter, which is really annoying for taking screenshots of how gorgeous the game is. I know I could just rebind the screenshot button, but is there any way to change this?

My second and third questions might just entirely be due to me being dumb, and missing a tutorial, or something: what does Dhar's down attack do, and what do the blue crystals do (I figured out that the red heals everyone)?

Like I said, I'm loving the build, and looking forward to getting back to it when I don't have impending classes to deal with.

1. No way to change the FPS counter position, as far as I know. I'll mention it.

2. Dhar's D. Atk is basically "Earth Install" - adds Earthen power to his next attack for more damage. In the final game, every character will have quick tips and full move lists to explain everything in detail.


I like the concept, but trying to hit 3 bars without it draining is tough enough with less characters. I, myself, could actually have a chance if it was one bar reduced to the size of two combined. Unless that's what you mean by the Iddhi is reduced? When she is KOd what happens if you have 0 Iddhi? Is there a different color bar to represent the timer? I don't think I fully understand.

We're going to have to fiddle with the specific to get it to feel right, but I guess the idea is that whatever Iddhi you have left is halved, probably with some limit, and then you need to fill it up again to revive Ajna. The Iddhi drain would likely be percentage based, so you're always going to get the same number of "heartbeats" before she dies even if you if you don't get any Iddhi.

Trying to find the right balance of "this shouldn't be too easy if you don't have a healer" and "making a choice to finish the fight first."
 

Ultimadrago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,136
78.5% for my first run. That was really fun! I'm planning to use Razmi, Zebei and Tungar for the next time around.

I ran into a bug where the Boss remained with the same HP after dying the first time. It fixed itself after the second time.

Like in the prototype, scrambling through combo possibilities was solid. I still have a lot to learn among the characters, but playing around with it feels accomplishing and completed combos feel good. Using delayed attacks to push back single attackers, making them miss, like with the normal boss, was good. I also had a better time using the axe versus the Prototype. It works similarly, but the detection felt much better here. Overall, it gives me good hopes for the game.

Though in the final game, I would like to see more descriptions for at least attack details for the characters in their Status screen.

You know what I loved a lot about this? Ajna's slide. I never caught wind of it before this Backer Preview and she looks so cool doing it!

ajnaslidejdug7.jpg
 

jb1234

Very low key
Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,224
Played it again, got 95% this time (as opposed to a pretty lousy 55% the first time). It's still a lot of fun (and man, does the map sure help). If the story is solid, I think this is gonna be a winner.
 

Chainshada

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,637
Man that
cat
fight is rough, I can get to a certain point but then barely miss that 1shot attack every damn time.
 

dedacc

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
318
This is probably the single most-tested thing, and this control scheme is the one that has consistently worked the best.

Honestly the hardest part communicating it is that it's much easier to do than people think, and they tend to psyche themselves out and act too often instead of just holding it.
I have nothing to argue against this. Tried it out multiple times this morning and it worked great - turned out to be my "overthinking Grapple Beam" all over again. orz

And...

The plan is that you will be able to change Ajna's combat in the final game.
Lovely! I was a bit confused there since in the 2015 demo, you could swap from the axe to bare-handed fighting.
 

Ultimadrago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,136
I'm not sure if this is a bug or not, but the secret room with the
Purple Chopsticks Boss
didn't respawn after I failed the first time. Took the gem with them :(
 

khaz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
274
I have the same problem as with the original demo, which is when not using a 360 controller, the button configuration during combats is completely messed up.

I'm using a Saturn USB controller with six face buttons, configured like this: A special, B attack, C jump, X party, Y zoom, Z dash, L block, R weapon/meter, Start pause.
I think having Z as weapon select and R as dash may make more sense, but I literally started the game five minutes ago.

But in any case, once in game the controls are just all over the place! With the default controls, each button position relates to the character party position, but any reorganisation means that this gameplay feature is gone. Controls for the platforming part and the combat part should be distinct, and separately mapped in the initial screen. I want to be able to remap the control however I'm more comfortable for the platforming parts, and keep the diamond controls setup for the combats.
 

Godcannon

Member
Oct 25, 2017
545
USA
1. No way to change the FPS counter position, as far as I know. I'll mention it.

2. Dhar's D. Atk is basically "Earth Install" - adds Earthen power to his next attack for more damage. In the final game, every character will have quick tips and full move lists to explain everything in detail.




We're going to have to fiddle with the specific to get it to feel right, but I guess the idea is that whatever Iddhi you have left is halved, probably with some limit, and then you need to fill it up again to revive Ajna. The Iddhi drain would likely be percentage based, so you're always going to get the same number of "heartbeats" before she dies even if you if you don't get any Iddhi.

Trying to find the right balance of "this shouldn't be too easy if you don't have a healer" and "making a choice to finish the fight first."

First of all, it's great to hear that the quick tips and moves list will be in there. Excellent!

As for the KO system, the idea of trying to fill the Iddhi gauge to revive Ajna before the heartbeats run out sounds pretty cool. Perhaps filling one of the boxes would extend the heartbeats, giving you a chance to continue fighting while she's down. But if they run out with no Iddhi then you're done. So you have the option to go for the revive, or keep the heartbeats going. Whew, just thinking about that is intense lol.
 

Deleted member 1258

User Requested Account Closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,914
Ok, I REALLY hope they get rid of "You can't pause during battle!," incredibly inconvenient
 
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Admiral Woofington

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
14,892
just beat the preview. Some thoughts:

- The combat feels MUCH better this time around. With how fast you get attacks it feels much more fun to play.

- Was the UI changed? Because I love the look.

- In the heat of the moment it's tough to tell if the attack from the enemy is going to be a grab or a strike. I would suggest making it more visually obvious because if the point was that the circle was a different color I barely caught it in time and I can't even imagine if you're color blind. Maybe have the circle surrounding the party member get bigger/smaller if it's going to be a grab and remain relatively static if it's a strike.

- I hope the final game has a tutorial/practice mode of sorts because it'd be great to be able to practice combinations to see which ones work really well together.

- I don't recall but will there be towns/friendly NPCs in between the dungeons? Because the dungeon as is feels a bit barren. There aren't many puzzles or side activities outside of grabbing the orbs and the party members. Which meant I was just running around looking for the next fight. It'd help in the final game if there are breaks where you can socialize with your party members via dialogue in a camp of sorts, or go to town and buy items/equipment for you and your party members.
 

Ravidrath

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
297
Los Angeles, CA
  • Glad you're liking the combat changes!

  • Battle UI is completely different - main change is that the character's health / actions float beneath the character so you can look at your character instead of somewhere else on the screen

  • We're still likely going to experiment, but the color/circle are different colors, and there is also a symbol in it - regular attacks have no symbol, grabs have a triangle inscribed in the circle, and unblockables have an X inscribed in the circle

  • There plan is for there to be a training yard - i.e. fighting game training room - in Ajna's Inner realm

  • The final game will have more NPCs to interact with, but probably not in that region. And any time Ajna can meditate to enter her Inner Realm to upgrade weapons, talk to her party members, etc.
 

More_Badass

Member
Oct 25, 2017
23,621
Completely missed that the Preview was out

I had forgotten how much I loved the combat system. I played Stick of Truth recently, and much like that, this has Mario RPG's sense of immediacy in battle with the speed of a brawler, while still being strategic. Seeing your party combo moves together doesn't get old

The improved art style looks gorgeous and the movement while platforming feels just right, smooth just enough air time during jumps or stickiness while wall-jumping to be nice and responsive
 
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Ultimadrago

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,136
Yeah, I'm liking the art direction the backgrounds are headed with thus far.

Tested walljump response as well and it checked out, some games have a larger problem with this, so that was a relief.
 

Chainshada

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,637
Wooo took a few attempts

Z27fav2.jpg


And I think this is my highest combo so far

UsX0U6o.jpg


Really can't wait for the full release.
 

robotzombie

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,851
so I downloaded the preview on steam, and I can't for the life of me get my ps4 controller to work.

When setting up the controls at the beginning, it refuses to register L1 or R1, and then when I get to start, if I press the options button, its as if I hit esc on the keyboard and it takes me back to the previous button. So I can't finish setting up the controller and get into the game.

Anyone else come across this and have a suggestion?

Edit: I fixed the issue, I went into steam big picture, changed the controller mappings to other keyboard buttons so that they wouldn't overlap with escape or mouse scrolls, then I was able to do the full controls.

As for the game, AMAZING

Finished on my first try with 95%

Used only the new characters, all cool so far. Qadira is definitely my favorite of the newcomers, gotta get used to the double hits in the middle of other peoples combos however.

When people play, do you go character by character? Or are you trying to juggle between multiple characters at once?
 
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BRSxIgnition

Community Resettler
Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,596
Is it just me being inexperienced with things, or is it a glitch that even when there is a single line to a member of my party, the attack will still hit and do damage to others?
 

dedacc

User requested ban
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
318
Would be nice if these attacks had wider lines to show this then, maybe? I constantly tried defending only with the targeted character, but found out the others would get hurt as well anyway.
Yes, I think this would be a good idea, considering that attacks that hit all party members are shown as such - but attacks that hit two or even three members...
...for example, the Wizard at the end's staff swinging attack or the Golem's punch...
...are usually only shown as being focussed on one character.
 

poncle

Member
Oct 28, 2017
419
London
Backer preview was amazing!

Was a bit skeptical in the beginning about the lack of items and equipment, but now I really don't think I'll miss those elements. Both combat and exploration are really solid, I'm actually starting to think that a typical "setup" phase with a bunch of menus to navigate would just interrupt the flow of the game. Looking forward seeing the inner realm in action and how it fits with the rest of the game
 

ItemsGuy

Member
Nov 14, 2017
8
Hey Ravidrath, thanks for hanging out around here and answering questions and stuff!

So, after sinking about 18 hours into this (99.5%, still need to get around to killing Mike's cat), I think it's easy to say that the backer preview is a huge improvement over the prototype, which was already more fun and fleshed-out than any other prototype I've gotten my hands on.

Every character feels fun to use and meaningfully different in some way, but I think Ginseng & Honey are easily my favorite so far (and maybe my favorite Healer-type character/s in any RPG). Definitely digging the inclusion of subsystems in some characters like with G&H's salve-making game and Dhar's Earth Install, took a bit of tinkering with them but learning new things about their attacks just makes them more and more interesting to play each time.

One thing I would like to see, though, would be if G&H's moveset wrapped around the salve-making a bit more, since right now it only seems like Neutral and Up interact (where at first I assumed everything did). Down doesn't seem to have any discernible advantage over Neutral (beyond 50 points of damage and sometimes hitting another enemy if they're perfectly aligned - although G&H's combo damage pales in comparison to everyone else's so it's not a huge motivating factor), and spending 1 or 2 Iddhi purely for damage seems a bit unintuitive when you have any other more damage-oriented character on your team.

A suggestion I might make for that would be to reorient things a bit - where Down finds a simple ingredient that goes in the mortar, Neutral grinds up all ingredients (and maybe does more damage/builds more Iddhi/speeds up AP regen so you have a reason to use it outside of grinding), and Up heals based on the amount of ingredients ground up. The Special Ingredient found with 1 Iddhi could have an additional effect based on which one was found, and can then be thrown with Down to apply a negative effect to an enemy or ground up with Neutral to add a buff of some sort to Up's heal (for example, finding a spiky fruit may lower an enemy's Defense when thrown, or raise the team's Attack when ground up). 2 Iddhi could then continue to be a souped up version of Down, acting as a means to instantly fill up the mortar for powerful back-to-back heals, and 3 Iddhi can keep its role as more of an in-the-pocket clutch heal.

As a side note, doing something along the lines of having Razmi's 2 and 3 Iddhi specials extend the duration of her hex or interact with it in some way could also help with the whole "pure damage special on a non-damage-focused character" thing as well.

Not to go on for too long, it would be nice to eventually see more detailed information about each Incarnation's properties - maybe not anything hyper-specific, but rather more along the lines of their niche/properties and the purpose their attacks fulfill. For example, I've been having a lot of fun with Qadira, but I'm not sure why I'd put her on my team over someone more damage-oriented - with the big silhouette and weaponized shield, I assumed she'd have some sort of defensive role, but she seems to mostly have damage, displacement, and single-target focus that all feel outclassed by Ajna (with the axe at least). These characters are already super visually diverse, but I'm really curious about how they'll distinguish themselves from each other gameplay-wise as well.
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,985
Ann Arbor, Mi
First playthrough of Indivisible, got 10-15 minutes in, and it froze during a battle against a bunch of those white-haired ghost things after collecting the bow and bowman. There were two with black tips that I had never seen before that kept coming in and out of the fight, but nobody took a turn.

Too bad. Will try again tomorrow.
 

Ravidrath

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
297
Los Angeles, CA
Not to go on for too long, it would be nice to eventually see more detailed information about each Incarnation's properties - maybe not anything hyper-specific, but rather more along the lines of their niche/properties and the purpose their attacks fulfill.

We almost got full more character info UI into the Backer Preview, but basically decided to save it just because it was another thing that would have delayed thing.

Currently the plan is for each character to have a "hint sheet" giving you a high-level overview, and a more detailed "move list" that goes into the real nitty-gritty of their mechanics.

I think that might actually make a pretty good development update post, so I'm going to think about revealing those pretty soon!
 

Ravidrath

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
297
Los Angeles, CA
You think you'll ever submit a Switch working demo to the eShop like Octopath Traveler?

I hadn't, but it's actually a great idea.

Since releasing the Backer Preview on Switch now would be a logistical nightmare, maybe repackaging it as a free Switch demo a few months before release would be the way to go.

At that point, I feel like the "Backer exclusivity" thing might not be a concern.
 

Lain

Self-Requested Ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,068
As a backer who backed $100 and doesn't own a Switch, I wouldn't care if you repackaged this and put it out as a free demo for Switch owners tomorrow, but I know it's not a sentiment everyone would share. Obviously this preview is a backer perk so it's understandable to want to keep it that way for a while to not have people be unhappy.
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,524
Switzerland
Ravidrath It would be cool if you could separate exploration controls and battle controls!

If i put the dash on R1, the character supposed to attack with B/Circle will attack with R1, not a big deal but it would be nice!
 

Ravidrath

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
297
Los Angeles, CA
Ravidrath what are your thoughts on my input problem? The game is currently unplayable for me :(

Can you write it up and send it over to bugreports (at) labzerogames (dot) com?

I know we gave up on the Saturn USB pad for our stick driver because it was just sending what looked like garbage. But if you can use it with other DirectInput games, I don't know why ours would be any different.

Ravidrath It would be cool if you could separate exploration controls and battle controls!

If i put the dash on R1, the character supposed to attack with B/Circle will attack with R1, not a big deal but it would be nice!

Saw you mention this here and on Twitter, and have put it on the list of something to consider.
 

Meffer

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,393
I hadn't, but it's actually a great idea.

Since releasing the Backer Preview on Switch now would be a logistical nightmare, maybe repackaging it as a free Switch demo a few months before release would be the way to go.

At that point, I feel like the "Backer exclusivity" thing might not be a concern.
That would be an excellent idea. I think the Switch would be this game's bread and butter honestly.
 

ItemsGuy

Member
Nov 14, 2017
8
We almost got full more character info UI into the Backer Preview, but basically decided to save it just because it was another thing that would have delayed thing.

Currently the plan is for each character to have a "hint sheet" giving you a high-level overview, and a more detailed "move list" that goes into the real nitty-gritty of their mechanics.

I think that might actually make a pretty good development update post, so I'm going to think about revealing those pretty soon!

Ah man, I'm really looking forward to it if that's the case!

I know things'll certainly change once enemies and their behaviors become a bit more broad, but one thing that becomes clear pretty quickly whenever these prototypes/previews/etc. are released and people start doing speedruns and the like, is which characters/attacks/combos are "training dummy" optimal. I think it would be pretty comforting to at least see the theoretical side of why you'd go with X incarnation or Y attack based on context, so we could at least see what you guys are aiming for and try to break it however we can whenever the preview updates.

That being said, I do think what is optimal will become a lot more fluid and involved as the game evolves and becomes less and less about hitting hitboxes with numbers, so I can't wait to see what you guys have in mind on that end as well (maybe we'll get a dev post on this sometime?). Will some enemies become airborne, giving characters with ranged or aerial attacks a chance to shine? Will enemies be able to enter blocking states, making room for movesets that feature guard breaks or grapples? Will some enemies be able to retaliate mid-combo, making things like super armor or high defense (for, say, Qadira or Naga Rider) something that might be sought after? Just looking at the visual designs of upcoming enemies (and the introduction of stuff like grabs and magic in this update), it seems like Indivisible's gonna have a lot of room to be interesting.
 

Ravidrath

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
297
Los Angeles, CA
Enemy blocking / guard break is coming, but we haven't had a chance to implement it yet.

Some of the things you suggested aren't planned, because we're really trying to let players play with the party they want as much as possible. So things like specific monster / elemental / Incarnation match-ups aren't on the table right now.

Some Incarnations might be able to respond to some things better than others. For example, we're thinking that Qadira may be able to block magic unlike everyone else.
 

khaz

Member
Oct 25, 2017
274
Can you write it up and send it over to bugreports (at) labzerogames (dot) com?

I know we gave up on the Saturn USB pad for our stick driver because it was just sending what looked like garbage. But if you can use it with other DirectInput games, I don't know why ours would be any different.

Will do. But

Ravidrath It would be cool if you could separate exploration controls and battle controls!

If i put the dash on R1, the character supposed to attack with B/Circle will attack with R1, not a big deal but it would be nice!

is my problem, with fewer words haha. being able to independently configure exploration controls and battle controls would help anyone with an exotic controller. Or even keyboard players.
 

Kain-Nosgoth

Member
Oct 25, 2017
15,524
Switzerland
Can you write it up and send it over to bugreports (at) labzerogames (dot) com?

I know we gave up on the Saturn USB pad for our stick driver because it was just sending what looked like garbage. But if you can use it with other DirectInput games, I don't know why ours would be any different.



Saw you mention this here and on Twitter, and have put it on the list of something to consider.

thanks, that's great!
 

ItemsGuy

Member
Nov 14, 2017
8
Enemy blocking / guard break is coming, but we haven't had a chance to implement it yet.

Some of the things you suggested aren't planned, because we're really trying to let players play with the party they want as much as possible. So things like specific monster / elemental / Incarnation match-ups aren't on the table right now.

Some Incarnations might be able to respond to some things better than others. For example, we're thinking that Qadira may be able to block magic unlike everyone else.

Oh, I didn't mean anything so specific - rather, more along the lines of what you'd find in a Fighting game. Some characters have strong aerial options, which means others can have value through strong anti-air. Blocking is a central mechanic, and grapplers with strong command grabs can feel special by circumventing it. That sort of stuff.

I think allowing team composition to be more flexible is great, Indivisible's roster is one that begs people to find their favorites. But of course, the concern with a roster is that not everyone will have their niche, and the simpler combat is, the fewer niches you can have.

Single-player RPGs are a bit more lenient than Fighting games, of course, but similar in that a lot of the fun can be found in figuring out matchups. That said, theorycrafting is a lot more fun when the question is "How do I fight this boss with Tungar?" rather than "Why would I ever bring Tungar over Dhar?"

So, I'm not saying that each character needs a narrow use case or that certain enemies should require the use of specific non-universal mechanics, but I'm just hoping each Incarnation has a little something special that tempts me to put them on my team! (Which seems to be the case so far outside of insane speedrun tech, but there's still a lot of roster to go)
 

Ravidrath

Verified
Oct 27, 2017
297
Los Angeles, CA
While I wouldn't say we're making a "big push" to hit the final stretch goal, going to at least make sure everyone has a chance to get the exclusive merch!

Currently $162k away from hitting it, in case anyone was curious.

 
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