I was talking about American football. You life expectancy in the US playing football the whole life is near that of morbidly obese people. The question was about cost of personal decisions to the healthcare. Objectively those are comparable.
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Normalisation of 'plus-size' risks hidden danger of obesity, study finds (Read OP)
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As a guy who's been fat for as long as I can remember, and trying to excuse it since the third grade, i'm glad for my own health that I finally have made big strides in losing weight. I've been more physically active, but change didn't happen until I started focusing on diet.
My uncle died last year of a heart attack. He was as obese. Instant. No goodbyes. No nothing. Dead. Ten years ago my grandpa, my uncle's dad, died of a heart attack. Overweight, poor dietary habits. Dead in his sleep.
I don't want that for anyone, and I have always felt grossed by the idea of "fast-acceptance". No, this isn't okay. We're not stronger cause we're fat, fat isn't beautiful. I've lose thirty pounds in two months through diet changes, and i'm much happier for it. Despite not noticing my own physical changes, my friends aren't letting me get away with it with constant positive reinforcement. I've never been the best with self-esteem, but it's gone from "you don't look like you weight 260lbs," and "but you carry it well, and you're tall so it evens out," to "holy shit [Neopolitan], you look fucking great!" And I still have another 25-30lbs to go until I'm where I want to be at a flat 200. That encouragement makes such a difference, and I hope society in general can start moving into a direction where normal isn't being fat.
I'm sorry, but I'm still fat. And even at my goal weight, I'll probably always see myself as fat. But I decided it was time to change for my own health. Obesity leads to all kinds of issues from heart health to cancer, and we should not promote it. And don't give me the "healthy food is too expensive" line. I work at a grocery store (specifically sprouts), our corn was 6 cobs for $1 last week. I'm on a Keto diet so it isn't particularly relevant to me You just have to put in the he effort to shop instead of doing what I used to do and inhale $15 of Taco Bell food. There are options, you don't have to be fat. But they're right- it starts in the kitchen.
My uncle died last year of a heart attack. He was as obese. Instant. No goodbyes. No nothing. Dead. Ten years ago my grandpa, my uncle's dad, died of a heart attack. Overweight, poor dietary habits. Dead in his sleep.
I don't want that for anyone, and I have always felt grossed by the idea of "fast-acceptance". No, this isn't okay. We're not stronger cause we're fat, fat isn't beautiful. I've lose thirty pounds in two months through diet changes, and i'm much happier for it. Despite not noticing my own physical changes, my friends aren't letting me get away with it with constant positive reinforcement. I've never been the best with self-esteem, but it's gone from "you don't look like you weight 260lbs," and "but you carry it well, and you're tall so it evens out," to "holy shit [Neopolitan], you look fucking great!" And I still have another 25-30lbs to go until I'm where I want to be at a flat 200. That encouragement makes such a difference, and I hope society in general can start moving into a direction where normal isn't being fat.
I'm sorry, but I'm still fat. And even at my goal weight, I'll probably always see myself as fat. But I decided it was time to change for my own health. Obesity leads to all kinds of issues from heart health to cancer, and we should not promote it. And don't give me the "healthy food is too expensive" line. I work at a grocery store (specifically sprouts), our corn was 6 cobs for $1 last week. I'm on a Keto diet so it isn't particularly relevant to me You just have to put in the he effort to shop instead of doing what I used to do and inhale $15 of Taco Bell food. There are options, you don't have to be fat. But they're right- it starts in the kitchen.
So we are talking about nfl players, less than 1% of the population, vs obese people... Who are over 40% of the population?
How is this a comparable issue?
Most people who play football quit after college at the latest. Anecdotally I played football and hockey (contact sports) through elementary and high school and I never got a concussion or any other serious injury.
But after I quit I kept eating the same way and got up to 240 pounds which i got rid of in university.
What Im saying is there isnt 100% chance you get injured playing sports but there is a 100% chance you will gain weight if you overeat.
Yet you are saying the personal decision to play football is just as bad as the decision to become morbidly obese (something nobody decides)
It's comparable when it comes to PERSONAL choices. And there isn't 100% chance you will die from diabetes is you are fat. I'm not even sure what point you are making. In fact there are skinny people who are way unhealthier than fat people. Sure by chance you will probably point out unhealthy fat person! But why be judgmental?
I can definitely relate with you. And crazy diets like keto is the way I usually loose weight. But in long term those diets are very risky. You might end up with high cholesterol anyway. Still beats Taco Bell for sure. :)
I think you are projecting because I haven't passed judgement on any overweight person. Scientifically they are at more risk of significantly more health problems than skinny people. I don't have to "point out an unhealthy fat person" it has nothing to do with anecdotes.
Telling me there isn't a 100% chance you will die from obesity is silly given what you compared it to. There is a sight decreased lifespan for NFL players, but that is so few people that it is not a good comparison.
I guess you could talk about Sumo, as they are the only athletes that purposefully become overweight.
Once I hit my goal weight I'm going to get blood work done so I can check on my my levels across the board. It's not indicative of all health problems, but I had an EKG as well as chest X-ray prior to starting Keto and I was all okay in the heart. And overall, I'm sure being 30 (aiming for 60) pounds lighter is more important to living a healthy life than hanging on the weight!
What are you talking about? I'm not talking about permanent weight loss being impossible. All I said is that it's insanely hard. Statistically. And I have a news for you. Most fat people hate themselves for being fat. Sure, they should see a doctor. That's exactly my point. The doctor should handle and comment their health not some assholes on the internet.
Quick internet search shows that moderately obese people live 3 years less than general population. Surprisingly enough "German study found that German national team players live 1.9 years less than the general male population" (that's soccer, not even that bad). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_player
If you go down the "I insult them, because I care about their health" rabbit hole the whole argument falls apart really fast. Once again, losing weight is important. I don't want to create perception that it isn't, but people who are mean to fat people are just assholes who came up with some shitty justification.
You are seeing insults where there aren't any. I don't care about any specific persons health (except my own) I'm thinking about the health of society.
Aguing that professional sports is as big of an issue as obesity is dishonest, not only because there aren't nearly as many professional atheletes as there are morbidly obese people.
1. There are clear insults in this thread. Not towards me, but there are insults.
2. Sure, it's bad for society. But you can't judge any random fat person for being fat. You have no clue what's going in their life. You have no clue why they chose to be fat (many here believe it's a choice so I won't even go there). Society does need to change to better about health, but fat shaming is not the way to go.
So we aren't even arguing here. I'm not worrying about micro at all, why someone specifically is overweight is really of no interest to me unless that person is me or a close friend or family member maybe. In this context I am only attempting to discuss broader societal trends and issues as they relate to the obesity epidemic in various countries.
I don't personally believe shame can motivate people to be healthier, it is more a motivator to hide away and probably eat more or develop an eating disorder.
I mean the only reason I mentioned sports is because a lot of the posts here are on micro level. I don't even think that it's easy to judge family members and friends. Sure you can encourage them, but even then it's hard to fully know them and it should be up to them and their doctor.
If you read my other post you see I can get packages of cheese sticks, macaroni, pizzas, etc. for $1 Most of my unhealthy meals were $1. Stores are CONSTANTLY having sales on food such as this and other unhealthy snacks. I've actually lived this and know how cheaply I can eat unhealthily vs. what I'm eating now. I can tell from my bank statements how much my grocery bill has gone up.
Not to insult you. It's just that you claim people rarely lose weight by dieting and don't keep the weight off. There are quite a few people in this thread who would disagree with you.
Your extremely negative attitude is counterproductive.
The only way to lose weight is to ensure that your calories consumed are lower than the calories burned, and then match the calories burned to maintain.
Exercise will increase the calories burned, obviously, and thus enable you to eat a bit more while still being at a deficit, but it is in no way essential. If you burn fewer calories due to not exercising, but adjust calories so you're still at a deficit, you'll still lose weight.
You are literally using anecdotal accounts over statistics! My point is that statistics show that loosing the weight is doable but keeping weight off is insanely hard. What are you actually disagreeing with?
It will fail if you try a fad diet and revert back to eating garbage, not counting your calories. You can even get an app on your phone to help. If you have failed at trying to lose weight and have become discouraged and have adopted a defeatist attitude is your right and I'm not judging you.
It's just that lots of people legitimately want to be healthier and your "crab bucket" mentality is not really helpful.
So Ukraine is right and you aren't actually disagreeing?
Sticking to a diet permanently is what is actually hard, and what, statistically, people who struggle with weight loss have so much trouble with. Saying that something is doable, but difficult for a great number of people, isn't controversial, and isn't necessarily defeatist either. It's just realistic. You can be realistic without being defeatist.
What do you keep talking about. I'm using lose it! - awesome app. What does it have to do with me? I'm just saying that it's shitty to judge others who don't. It's not easy and it's insanely stressful!
I'm fine with my goals. I literally have no clue what you are talking about. My whole point was about judging others.
That's a consequences of weight gain being perceived as a moral failing by so many people
I see. I've known far too many genuinely good people (many suffering from depression who use food as a coping mechanism) who have struggled with weight gain to ever pass such an absurd judgment, thats just sad.
Okay, I'll just reiterate that while absolutely everybody should be, if not needs to be, exercising regularly, it is not essential for weight loss or weight maintenance. Period. I don't know how else to put it. It is not necessary for either of those things, and that's a fact. Of course every single person would be better off exercising, that's irrelevant to what I said.
I lost weight last year and was thrilled about it (got off my butt finally and I keep it up to this day), and I can't really phrase it better than by saying: don't shame someone for being overweight, especially without knowing how their body works, but there's no need to tell a person that they're a healthy weight if they're not. I didn't need to be told when I was fat that I was just fine the way I was because, while I wasn't morbidly huge, I wasn't ideal as my physicals showed. The improvements when you become active are tremendous even if you don't lose a pound (lowering bad cholesterol, for example).
It took a while to find something that worked for me. In my case, I found an activity that was fun, so I never have to pry myself out of my home to do it; I enjoy the activity. I made some adjustments as well (eliminated added sugar in areas like coffee). I feel way better now playing video games because before I would think, "I really ought to be doing more." Now I get plenty of exercise a week and feel guilt-free playing whatever.
It took a while to find something that worked for me. In my case, I found an activity that was fun, so I never have to pry myself out of my home to do it; I enjoy the activity. I made some adjustments as well (eliminated added sugar in areas like coffee). I feel way better now playing video games because before I would think, "I really ought to be doing more." Now I get plenty of exercise a week and feel guilt-free playing whatever.
I'm a bit late to this thread, but I think a huge part of the battle is convincing people that 1) they can lose tons of weight by cooking their own food, 2) it isn't hard/time consuming, and 3) it doesn't have to be expensive. As someone who lost 35lbs and has kept it off for over twelve years now (from 140+lbs to 105lbs) even after having two children, I'd be happy to share some of the cheap-but-good-and-easy recipes I use (like baking your own bread sans all the sugar you get in store bought versions!). I get that it's boring as hell to think you can only eat boiled chicken/rice and the like and cost is a concern, so as a bit of positive direction from all this, why not do a recipe jam with other posters? Approaching cooking your own food like a chore can kill your motivation, while turning it into a creative activity can help you lose that weight and boost your mood. Win-win!
I didn't realise how overweight I got until I saw some pictures of mine. I was shocked. I was also upset that nobody around me told me, because for some reason I couldn't see it myself.
I was that shocked from seeing those pics of me that it gave me all the motivation I needed. That very moment I decided to do something about it. Not a day after, a week or a month after. That very same day.
I'm at a healthy weight again and stayed like that for over a year now since then and I can understand if you struggle with it.
A few things I'll let the overweight people in this thread know:
1) Losing weight is never just going straight down in weight, even if you are starving yourself. Your weight will go down, then go back up a bit. Then down again. This is Normal!! So don't freak out or give up if you went to bed hungry and felt proud of yourself for not snacking, only to find the next morning that you didn't lose any weight, or gained even! There are many reasons why this happens but the important thing is if you STICK to it, your weight will continue to decline, I promise.
2) You May not realise it but the amount you eat is insanely high. I didn't realise it either, I just got used to eating a lot in the day. What I eat in a day compared to what I did eat is massive. But your stomach will get used to it. Just don't rush this process. Just eat a little less than your eating now and let your body get used to it, then eat a little less, slowly. Don't go from eating 5k calories a day to 2k calories, you will most likely fail. Just eat 200 calories less (that's like what, one candy bar?) until your used to that as your daily intake. Then eat 200 calories less again, and before you know it, you'll be eating normal amounts and losing weight and looking healthy!
Good luck my friends.
I was that shocked from seeing those pics of me that it gave me all the motivation I needed. That very moment I decided to do something about it. Not a day after, a week or a month after. That very same day.
I'm at a healthy weight again and stayed like that for over a year now since then and I can understand if you struggle with it.
A few things I'll let the overweight people in this thread know:
1) Losing weight is never just going straight down in weight, even if you are starving yourself. Your weight will go down, then go back up a bit. Then down again. This is Normal!! So don't freak out or give up if you went to bed hungry and felt proud of yourself for not snacking, only to find the next morning that you didn't lose any weight, or gained even! There are many reasons why this happens but the important thing is if you STICK to it, your weight will continue to decline, I promise.
2) You May not realise it but the amount you eat is insanely high. I didn't realise it either, I just got used to eating a lot in the day. What I eat in a day compared to what I did eat is massive. But your stomach will get used to it. Just don't rush this process. Just eat a little less than your eating now and let your body get used to it, then eat a little less, slowly. Don't go from eating 5k calories a day to 2k calories, you will most likely fail. Just eat 200 calories less (that's like what, one candy bar?) until your used to that as your daily intake. Then eat 200 calories less again, and before you know it, you'll be eating normal amounts and losing weight and looking healthy!
Good luck my friends.
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Problem with body positivity is that it's celebrated like a lifestyle, when it shouldn't, it's un healthy, and promoting not giving a shit about your health. It's putting acceptance over health. The message should be about not being dicks, or bullying people with weight issues, but to act like it's a positive thing is the wrong message.
Yep. Or into the children's section which is hella weird. Even trying to buy online, it seems the smallest most come down to is a UK 8 whereas there's almost always an option for XL or XXL. I have a devil of a time shopping anywhere but Japan, and I don't think I'm all that tiny.
Unless you're 5'0 or 5'1, 105 is pretty tiny by regular, non-inflated standards.
105 is tiny, and clinically underweight unless you're 5'2 or shorter.
fat and happy here! and i personally think we should continue to make everyone feel comfortable no matter how they look, if seeing a fat model on a catwalk helps make someone a little happier then that's great. but in the meantime, if obesity is something they genuinely want to tackle maybe try fix the amount of sugar in...well...everything? make fresh food less expensive? make healthy options taste as good? stop trying to "fix" people on an individual basis by shaming them and start asking how the world makes it so easy to be fat in the first place.
between sedentary lifestyles becoming more sedentary as more things become automated and "smart". jobs that have you sat at a desk for 8 hours and the foods with the best price/taste ratio being the unhealthiest (in a world where the poor are becoming poorer no less), not to mention the convenience of fast food in a fast moving non-stop world...it's no wonder it's increasing.
there are ways to fix it, but i imagine you'd have to tackle it exactly like cigarettes and fix the societal and economic issues that help enable it in the first place which is no easy task. start by banning advertisements for fast food companies or unhealthy foods in general? stick fast food in plain white packaging with a picture of a fat guy dead on a morgue table maybe? or a fat smothered heart?...those are good places to start. but i imagine they'd struggle to get that ball rolling. all i know is making poor Jane feel like shit because she's fat isn't going to change anything.
between sedentary lifestyles becoming more sedentary as more things become automated and "smart". jobs that have you sat at a desk for 8 hours and the foods with the best price/taste ratio being the unhealthiest (in a world where the poor are becoming poorer no less), not to mention the convenience of fast food in a fast moving non-stop world...it's no wonder it's increasing.
there are ways to fix it, but i imagine you'd have to tackle it exactly like cigarettes and fix the societal and economic issues that help enable it in the first place which is no easy task. start by banning advertisements for fast food companies or unhealthy foods in general? stick fast food in plain white packaging with a picture of a fat guy dead on a morgue table maybe? or a fat smothered heart?...those are good places to start. but i imagine they'd struggle to get that ball rolling. all i know is making poor Jane feel like shit because she's fat isn't going to change anything.
I'm 5'3.5, and it might seem tiny by today's standards, but I'm hardly miniature. I'd have been above average in the '70s or even '80s, I'd warrant.
It's not, actually. At 5'3.5" I'm still in the healthy range (just). But that's why all this sizing stuff is so crazy. I'm not super skinny yet I have to find 0 or 00 sizing in the US to fit, and in the UK maybe a size 4? But they don't carry that anywhere, and they list size 8 as 'S'. It's absurd. There was an article on this a couple of years ago and it showed that Brigitte Bardot in the '70s was a size 8. Today? She'd be a UK(?) 0.
In the '70s/'80s/'90s, the standard was 100 pounds at 5'0" and then plus 5 for every inch.
When Ryan Davis passed, it was kind of a wake up call. I was pushing 270 and my wife told me that sometimes I stopped breathing at night. My weight was a result of poor diet and poor knowledge. I was a stay at home dad during that point in my life so I was doing the best I could to squeeze the budget as tight as possible to keep us out of debt. The first 40 lbs I lost was during that time and it was through calorie counting and outdoor running/walking. I didn't focus on 'fresh' foods or even 'healthy' foods. I learned about the math and did my best to hit my goal while going for 10k steps a day. Then I went back to work, kept the same mind set, and prepared my meals before heading out. I lost another 50 lbs over the next few months, a bit slower due to sitting around so much, but again it was possible.
My fitness goals have changed over time (trained for and ran a marathon, added more muscle, doing my first ever pull-up) but I've kept a majority of the weight off for the last 4 years. I didn't need to change what my family ate, I didn't need to stop going to fast food establishments, and I didn't need to pay for an expensive gym.
I also didn't get shamed for my size, or if I did I never really noticed. I was called fat by a lot of people in school, but as an adult that stuff really faded away. It is socially acceptable to be big even when I started to feel like the biggest guy in the room. I had been eating a pizza a day from many different places, and no one ever said anything. There was a point where I thought maybe I would lose weight if I just ate at a Chinese buffet instead of pizza. I was incredibly misinformed and I had been weighing myself daily for months before even looking into what weight loss took because I always assumed it meant VEGETABLES and I didn't want any of that nonsense.
There is a lot of blame to go around as to what keeps people fat, but the solution is always the same. Being responsible for what you put into your body.
My fitness goals have changed over time (trained for and ran a marathon, added more muscle, doing my first ever pull-up) but I've kept a majority of the weight off for the last 4 years. I didn't need to change what my family ate, I didn't need to stop going to fast food establishments, and I didn't need to pay for an expensive gym.
I also didn't get shamed for my size, or if I did I never really noticed. I was called fat by a lot of people in school, but as an adult that stuff really faded away. It is socially acceptable to be big even when I started to feel like the biggest guy in the room. I had been eating a pizza a day from many different places, and no one ever said anything. There was a point where I thought maybe I would lose weight if I just ate at a Chinese buffet instead of pizza. I was incredibly misinformed and I had been weighing myself daily for months before even looking into what weight loss took because I always assumed it meant VEGETABLES and I didn't want any of that nonsense.
There is a lot of blame to go around as to what keeps people fat, but the solution is always the same. Being responsible for what you put into your body.
You're right on the borderline of being underweight. Your BMI is like 18ish. BMI charts were established in the early 70s; I don't know why you would think stuff like healthy BMI changes over time it's a medical term and not one related to clothes.
That said, I can relate to it being hard finding clothes; for me the problem is because I'm tall and skinny. Most dresses that fit my torso are so short they barely cover past my butt.
Sorry, I worded that wrong. I didn't mean that the average woman was that weight, just that there were so many people way skinnier that it feels big.
You're right on the borderline of being underweight. Your BMI is like 18ish. BMI charts were established in the early 70s; I don't know why you would think stuff like healthy BMI changes over time it's a medical term and not one related to clothes.
That said, I can relate to it being hard finding clothes; for me the problem is because I'm tall and skinny. Most dresses that fit my torso are so short they barely cover past my butt.
Yes? It's exactly what I said, I'm in the healthy range 'just'.
And I never related BMI to clothes at all. I never even brought it up, you did. I just said that the sizing has changed like crazy over the years, in part due to vanity sizing and it's made 'small' something not really small anymore.
Edited: Zoe just mentioned my weight, not bmi.
Unless you're very tall or a hard core athlete it's pretty accurate as a guideline.
https://www.dietitians.ca/Your-Health/Assess-Yourself/Assess-Your-BMI/BMI-Adult.aspx
I'd say the "vast majority of people out there" are indeed not in those categories, so what Zoe said isn't inaccurate.
Outside of people like upper end bodybuilders and pregnant women it's pretty actuate. You seem to claim it's not accurate despite being used by actual medical professionals to help frame weight discussion with patients.
So what's wrong with using it for the vast majority of people?
5'11 and 155 pounds?
Twig city.
Ah that makes more sense.