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SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
The only thing you can do to decide if DTM is worth it, is test it over a period of weeks, basically just switch it on and off, at any given point and see what's best, then work out roughly the percentage of what looked best over the time, and stick with that.

Just making sure it's not a feature that's potentially damaging like Logo Luminescence is purported to be.

At this point the only thing I want to do is maybe make colors more vibrant. Any tricks to that besides raising the color value (which I'd rather not do and doesn't seem to do much anyway)?
 

th1nk

Member
Nov 6, 2017
6,265
The only thing that happens with dynamic tone mapping on is that if the scene changes suddenly, you can sometimes see that the algorithm has to catch up a half second or so later. But it doesnt bother me so much that I would switch it off. Hoping for the Dolby Vision update for my Denon X1200 soon, Dolby Vision should fix this little nitpick aswell. The C8 is great and I dont see any flaws on my set. Great TV coming from a 1080p OLED, trading in 3D for 4k HDR was worth it! Too bad the Tru Motion still has artefacts, so I leave it off.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
I did some research into DV metadata and how it behaves, the default behavior is for DV to simply follow the SMPTE2084 PQ with no tone mapping, so in games instances the difference between HDR10 and Dolby Vision is almost 0 (depending on how your display currently handles it.

I would have loved to test PC DV, but Nvidia decided to break it from the get go, so I never did, but there are lots who have on Radeon cards, and say it's miles better than the HDR10 offering, but you're saying it would depend on how their TV is handling HDR10 (no metadata) right?

So on my old Panny FALD, Resi 7 used to max out where it should on the slider (1350 nits) and the block would go solid, so the Panny is taking the absence of metadata, and just clipping out at the TV's max abilities then? I know with the 902, it would blow specular detail, to hit it's max luminance.
 

guitarguy316

Member
Nov 3, 2017
1,477
To those of you with OLEDs, regular SDR game mode is locked to wide color gamut.

But HDR game mode can be changed to wide or normal. Has anyone switched it to normal and then set color temp to W40+ to be more accurate?
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
To those of you with OLEDs, regular SDR game mode is locked to wide color gamut.

But HDR game mode can be changed to wide or normal. Has anyone switched it to normal and then set color temp to W40+ to be more accurate?

Use PC mode for SDR gaming, also you don't need to set colour gamut to normal, leave on wide, W50 is what you'll want, if you like warm 2 for films etc.
 

EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,680
I would have loved to test PC DV, but Nvidia decided to break it from the get go, so I never did, but there are lots who have on Radeon cards, and say it's miles better than the HDR10 offering, but you're saying it would depend on how their TV is handling HDR10 (no metadata) right?

So on my old Panny FALD, Resi 7 used to max out where it should on the slider (1350 nits) and the block would go solid, so the Panny is taking the absence of metadata, and just clipping out at the TV's max abilities then?


Yes, I think my Samsung behaves in the same way you describe.

When I read these threads I see a handful of people talking about the HDR game mode on their LG TV being dimmer than it should be and I think that is because in the absense of metadata (i.e. all games) the TV treats the content as 4000nits and does both RGB and luminance mapping and is pushing brightness down, as it's leaving overhead for brighter values.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Yes, I think my Samsung behaves in the same way you describe.

When I read these threads I see a handful of people talking about the HDR game mode on their LG TV being dimmer than it should be and I think that is because in the absense of metadata (i.e. all games) the TV treats the content as 4000nits and does both RGB and luminance mapping and is pushing brightness down, as it's leaving overhead for brighter values.

I've just gone back to Horizon (Frozen Wilds) for the first time since owning an OLED, and I'm just blown away by it's specular handling, so so bright because of its per pixel lighting, surrounded by black, it really is quite something.

Just for reference, this is the kind of thing that I just can't compromise on any more, now I've seen what per pixel does.

20180624_215247rejp7.jpg
 
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EvilBoris

Prophet of Truth - HDTVtest
Verified
Oct 29, 2017
16,680
I've just gone back to Horizon (Frozen Wilds) for the first time since owning an OLED, and I'm just blown away by it's specular handling, so so bright because of its per pixel lighting, surrounded by black, it really is quite something.
Fortunately it's a game that outputs 10000k nits!
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Fortunately it's a game that outputs 10000k nits!

It does look great, but tbh I've loved (all decent) HDR games in the PQ stakes, regardless of nit mastering, apart from Wipeout Omega Collection, that looked really flat, compared to my LCD experience, just glad that's an exception so far.

I did see your thread(s) about HDR btw, you did a great job! You put a ton of effort into that :)
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
What exactly does PC mode do?

Should I have that on for the Switch (doesn't do 4K anyway)?

It bypasses the god awful SDR game mode, so then you can use nice picture presets like isf dark etc, and have accurate (calibrated if you want) colours, not the forced wide gamut, with 21ms lag still.

It unlocks 4:4:4 chroma for PC use also.
 

SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
It bypasses the god awful SDR game mode, so then you can use nice picture presets like isf dark etc, and have accurate (calibrated if you want) colours, not the forced wide gamut, with 21ms lag still.

It unlocks 4:4:4 chroma for PC use also.

So wait, I don't use the Game picture mode anymore once I switch the icon to PC? I can use the other modes without an increase in lag?

What about consoles that have HDR Game mode as an option? Will they still switch over under the PC mode?
 

Eggiem

Member
Oct 27, 2017
8,774
LG 55 B7 here.
I just saw the HDR brightness difference between Standard mode and Game mode. The sun in Horizon Zero Dawns start screen is a nice HDR peak brightness indicator.
Guess I will play my HDR games in standard mode from now on.
However this TV let my jaw drop again: Thousands of snowflakes glittering in the moonlight, falling from a deep black night sky.
Holy shit. Best 1100€ I've ever spent!
 

DangerMouse

Member
Oct 25, 2017
22,402
I've just gone back to Horizon (Frozen Wilds) for the first time since owning an OLED, and I'm just blown away by it's specular handling, so so bright because of its per pixel lighting, surrounded by black, it really is quite something.

Just for reference, this is the kind of thing that I just can't compromise on any more, now I've seen what per pixel does.

20180624_215247rejp7.jpg
Yeah I love it.

Those night scenes at the beginning of John Wick 2 were another of my first "oh shit" moments.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
So wait, I don't use the Game picture mode anymore once I switch the icon to PC? I can use the other modes without an increase in lag?

What about consoles that have HDR Game mode as an option? Will they still switch over under the PC mode?

Yeah use PC for all SDR gaming, and you'll still get 21ms lag :)

The only downside is, that HDR is broken in PC mode, so you'll have to manually turn off PC when not playing SDR games and use game HDR mode.

Small price to pay, but worth it.

Yeah I love it.

Those night scenes at the beginning of John Wick 2 were another of my first "oh shit" moments.

JW2 is still one of the best HDR discs going! Makes stuff like TLJ a real bitter pill to swallow :/
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,879
Asia
In the audio thread I read that some people here have a Dolby Atmos soundbar. Currently I'm eyeing the Sony HTX 9000f. Affordable and according to some YouTubers really good. Anyone here with that soundbar? In general would you say a Atmos soundbar is worth it? I mean with a lot of these soundbars there are no additional rear speakers.

I bought the HT-X9000F a few weeks ago. It's the most impressive soundbar I've ever used, but whether you should buy it or not depends on your situation. I basically just use it with my PS4 Pro, OTA Digital HDTV and then Netflix/Kodi/Youtube/VLC through my TV.

Positives
- Sound capacity is really impressive - even at default it's just a lot better than a traditional, cheaper bar like the CT-290 or whatever.
- Near perfect ARC/HDMI-CEC with Sony TVs. Boots up fast, syncs fast.
- Not cheap but still cheaper than the Z9F
- Boomy wireless sub
- Obviously fits perfectly under the X900F, since that's what it was designed for

Worth Noting
- If you end up not hearing the difference between Atmos and Stereo, it can link to your TV through bluetooth. (Sony TVs can, dunno about LG). I haven't tried this at home but the IT show demo unit I played around with worked identical to ARC. Turning the TV on also turned on the soundbar, TV remote controlled the volume, etc.
- HDMI 2 passthrough. So if you want something with 100% access to the soundbar and can't lose the HDMI input on your TV, this does the job. On my Sony TV the passthrough device shows up on the input list, which is cool. YMMV on other sets.

Drawbacks
- 2.1 unit only. If you want a center channel go for the Z9F. Personally if I really need enhanced voice clarity I just press the VOICE button on the remote, but ultimately more speakers is better. I would say the drawback on a center channel with soundbars is ultimately that they are all so squished together. I guess it adds some clarity but I used to own one of those 20+ channel Yamaha monsters and this sounds worlds better.
- I believe you also need the Z9F to go with the optional surround back speaker pair (which are an additional cost, by the way, listed as $200 on Sony's website, dunno about Amazon)
- I wish I could say ARC is bulletproof but I did lose it once. Ended up just unplugging the TV and soundbar from the wall for 30 seconds and then everything behaved after. Not sure if it was the bar or TV, but power pull did the trick.
- Last thing on the "you should buy the Z9F list" is that the Z9F supports 3x HDMI, while this supports only one* (1 port is ARC in, the other is for the passthrough device, Z9F is 1 ARC + 3 out). Again, not a big deal for me because I don't want to attach 3 more HDMI devices and juggle two remotes to do all of the input switching. But in theory it's there.
 

SOLDIER

One Winged Slayer
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
11,339
Yeah use PC for all SDR gaming, and you'll still get 21ms lag :)

The only downside is, that HDR is broken in PC mode, so you'll have to manually turn off PC when not playing SDR games and use game HDR mode.

Small price to pay, but worth it.



JW2 is still one of the best HDR discs going! Makes stuff like TLJ a real bitter pill to swallow :/

Dang, broken how? Is it something they talked about possibly fixing in an update?

It's a big enough pain switching between two picture modes depending on whether I'm playing a game or movie.
 

DOTDASHDOT

Helios Abandoned. Atropos Conquered.
Member
Oct 26, 2017
3,076
Dang, broken how? Is it something they talked about possibly fixing in an update?

It's a big enough pain switching between two picture modes depending on whether I'm playing a game or movie.

Yes annoying, but I want the best pic quality, so I'll always change it, plus mine is calibrated, no way I'm not using what I paid for.

Wait, so HDR is also dimmer on the C7 if using game mode?

Game HDR is the equivalent to cinema (accurate) and Standard is very similar to vivid, none of them wrong, but that's how it is.

Do the other icons also affect the picture in any way?

No none.
 

Kyle Cross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
My B7 just got a firmware update, 04.71.00. I updated and I went to AVSForums to read what was changed, but no one seems to know yet and they're instead arguing back and forth on the safety of upgrading to a firmware you don't know what does. Jeez...
 

SprachBrooks

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,353
If that's your budget you could also consider the new TLC sets. I imagine they'll outdo this specs wise. Just don't think there are any reviews out there yet so not much in the way of facts/performance available

Thanks. I think I'm going to settle for this, but I'm a bit concerned the refresh rate is only 50hz. As I want to use this to game.
 

Mr Punished

Member
Oct 27, 2017
597
OUTER HEAVEN
Hey guys, They seem to have fixed the black levels being off on the E6. C6. and B6.Theres a beta firmware out. But more importantly, it is said to also fix brightness in game mode!.

Gonna try it.


https://www.4kfilme.de/neue-beta-firmware-soll-raised-black-problem-der-lg-oled-tvs-aus-2016-beheben/
Please report back as soon as possible. I'd love to know if the HDR game mode is now equivalent to the HDR standard mode like it used to be. I reverted my firmware last year when they changed the tonemapping, I was incredibly disappointed that they made this change and didn't offer a real solution outside of dynamic contrast which just didn't make the cut. I'm kinda shocked that one year on the fuckers have released a fix. What the hell LG? Well, I guess I'll take it. I can download the update myself but am currently too paranoid to take the dive, I've got some trust issues with LG firmwares. So please, tell us what you think.
 

GundamStyle

Banned
Jun 10, 2018
349
Please report back as soon as possible.

Well guys, I have GOOD NEWS. The new Firmware does fix Game Mode in HDR!! It looks immediatly better. I took pictures using horizon.

OLD FIRMWARE, Dynamic Contrast High.

OLD FIRMWARE, Dynamic Contrast Off.

NEW FIRMWARE, Dynamic Contrast Off.(Colors look correct, and Its brighter!)

NEW FIRMWARE, Dynamic Contrast High(Colors No longer Correct, Everything artificially brightened.)
 

Mr Punished

Member
Oct 27, 2017
597
OUTER HEAVEN
Well guys, I have GOOD NEWS. The new Firmware does fix Game Mode in HDR!! It looks immediatly better. I took pictures using horizon.

Looking good. I'm shocked that they've reverted this. Is there an option to switch back to the the new (now old) HDR tone mapping that made things dim? Some people preferred to use that with dynamic contrast to preserve detailed highlights, so it's always good to have options. Other than that how'd you say the screen brightness is compared to the HDR standard mode. My C6 on the old firmware has a HDR game mode that is pretty much identical to the HDR standard tone mapping, can't really tell a difference swapping between the two outside of input lag. Would you say this new HDR tone mapping is just that old tone mapping reinstated? No difference between standard and game like it used to be?
 
Oct 26, 2017
8,992
I bought the HT-X9000F a few weeks ago. It's the most impressive soundbar I've ever used, but whether you should buy it or not depends on your situation. I basically just use it with my PS4 Pro, OTA Digital HDTV and then Netflix/Kodi/Youtube/VLC through my TV.

Positives
- Sound capacity is really impressive - even at default it's just a lot better than a traditional, cheaper bar like the CT-290 or whatever.
- Near perfect ARC/HDMI-CEC with Sony TVs. Boots up fast, syncs fast.
- Not cheap but still cheaper than the Z9F
- Boomy wireless sub
- Obviously fits perfectly under the X900F, since that's what it was designed for

Worth Noting
- If you end up not hearing the difference between Atmos and Stereo, it can link to your TV through bluetooth. (Sony TVs can, dunno about LG). I haven't tried this at home but the IT show demo unit I played around with worked identical to ARC. Turning the TV on also turned on the soundbar, TV remote controlled the volume, etc.
- HDMI 2 passthrough. So if you want something with 100% access to the soundbar and can't lose the HDMI input on your TV, this does the job. On my Sony TV the passthrough device shows up on the input list, which is cool. YMMV on other sets.

Drawbacks
- 2.1 unit only. If you want a center channel go for the Z9F. Personally if I really need enhanced voice clarity I just press the VOICE button on the remote, but ultimately more speakers is better. I would say the drawback on a center channel with soundbars is ultimately that they are all so squished together. I guess it adds some clarity but I used to own one of those 20+ channel Yamaha monsters and this sounds worlds better.
- I believe you also need the Z9F to go with the optional surround back speaker pair (which are an additional cost, by the way, listed as $200 on Sony's website, dunno about Amazon)
- I wish I could say ARC is bulletproof but I did lose it once. Ended up just unplugging the TV and soundbar from the wall for 30 seconds and then everything behaved after. Not sure if it was the bar or TV, but power pull did the trick.
- Last thing on the "you should buy the Z9F list" is that the Z9F supports 3x HDMI, while this supports only one* (1 port is ARC in, the other is for the passthrough device, Z9F is 1 ARC + 3 out). Again, not a big deal for me because I don't want to attach 3 more HDMI devices and juggle two remotes to do all of the input switching. But in theory it's there.

Thanks man. You've been a lot of help with this. I have a Sony 930e so it would be a great combination. It's also right now the most affordable one and I might be able to get it for a real nice price at the same store where I got my TV for a damn nice price.

I'm just still on the fence though. If I want a room filling sound, soundbars won't do that right? They will never be able to give actual surround but some soundbars like the Playbar by Sonos does give you the impression that there is sound coming from other places other than the front. Is this with the Sony too?
 

jwk94

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,418
Well guys, I have GOOD NEWS. The new Firmware does fix Game Mode in HDR!! It looks immediatly better. I took pictures using horizon.

OLD FIRMWARE, Dynamic Contrast High.

OLD FIRMWARE, Dynamic Contrast Off.

NEW FIRMWARE, Dynamic Contrast Off.(Colors look correct, and Its brighter!)

NEW FIRMWARE, Dynamic Contrast High(Colors No longer Correct, Everything artificially brightened.)
Wait, so does this mean the c7 is now on par with the c8?
 

Crazymoogle

Game Developer
Verified
Oct 25, 2017
2,879
Asia
I'm just still on the fence though. If I want a room filling sound, soundbars won't do that right? They will never be able to give actual surround but some soundbars like the Playbar by Sonos does give you the impression that there is sound coming from other places other than the front. Is this with the Sony too?

Well the sub booms and the sound feels very rich to me by default. I mean it feels room filling to me and my volume is only at 40. Some surround is there because that's just how virtual stereo works with your ears, but it's rarely going to be as abrupt as a rear channel pouring directly into your ear. The V Surround is pretty good but probably depends on your room a bit.
 

Maturin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,101
Europe
LG 55 B7 here.
I just saw the HDR brightness difference between Standard mode and Game mode. The sun in Horizon Zero Dawns start screen is a nice HDR peak brightness indicator.
Guess I will play my HDR games in standard mode from now on.
However this TV let my jaw drop again: Thousands of snowflakes glittering in the moonlight, falling from a deep black night sky.
Holy shit. Best 1100€ I've ever spent!

Did you calibrate the in-game settings for each TV mode before comparing?
If not then the comparison doesn't really work - the same settings in game won't necessarily get the best from Standard or Game without making some changes.
 

ueh19

Banned
May 23, 2018
64
Anything you'd recommend instead?

I really cant recommend you any tv's in that price range as i really only have experience with "higher end" tv's.
But i have experience with the lower end samsung tv's like the one you linked and the backlight on these are crazy bad, and its super distracting actually so i would avoid them honestly.
But seriously, look out for 50hz displays, not worth it!
 

Bumrush

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,770

Definitely not on par as the C8s better processor - among other things - won't be challenged via firmware. The question isn't whether the C8 is better it's really just "is it better for that amount of money".

The RTINGS review does a good job talking about what's new in the 8 series
 

MR ARCADE

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
559
I read the lg 2016 firmware update is releasing late June. I was going to try the beta but the official is almost here. I'm excited they have a fix for hdr in game mode!
 
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Deleted member 35478

User-requested account closure
Banned
Dec 6, 2017
1,788
So I'm a little confused with game mode SDR, playing Switch, it's basically vivid mode but with low input lag? And where in the menus is PC mode?

With HDR content, non gaming, I'm using cinema mode, I haven't messed with any of the settings besides power savings and Tru motion. I believe OLED light is 80, should that be set lower?
 
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jwk94

Member
Oct 25, 2017
13,418
Definitely not on par as the C8s better processor - among other things - won't be challenged via firmware. The question isn't whether the C8 is better it's really just "is it better for that amount of money".

The RTINGS review does a good job talking about what's new in the 8 series
All right. Thanks!! I'll check it out
 

Zappy

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
3,738
Looking good. I'm shocked that they've reverted this. Is there an option to switch back to the the new (now old) HDR tone mapping that made things dim? Some people preferred to use that with dynamic contrast to preserve detailed highlights, so it's always good to have options. Other than that how'd you say the screen brightness is compared to the HDR standard mode. My C6 on the old firmware has a HDR game mode that is pretty much identical to the HDR standard tone mapping, can't really tell a difference swapping between the two outside of input lag. Would you say this new HDR tone mapping is just that old tone mapping reinstated? No difference between standard and game like it used to be?

I've got used to using DC on the dim mode and do like the fact it preserves highlights. Its a shame they won't give an option for both. Probably means if I want to keep this mode I need to not update the firmware.
 

Dave_6

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,522
So has anyone tried the new firmware on a B6? I've kept mine on the old 4.30.xx as I've been afraid of getting the elevated blacks issue.
 

Maturin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,101
Europe
I've got used to using DC on the dim mode and do like the fact it preserves highlights. Its a shame they won't give an option for both. Probably means if I want to keep this mode I need to not update the firmware.

I've installed the new firmware on my 2016 LCD. HDR Game still retains more highlight detail than HDR Standard, just not quite as much as it did previously. But it's certainly noticeable.
 

Mr Punished

Member
Oct 27, 2017
597
OUTER HEAVEN
I've got used to using DC on the dim mode and do like the fact it preserves highlights. Its a shame they won't give an option for both. Probably means if I want to keep this mode I need to not update the firmware.
Oh goodness, it's a reversal. Next year this time we'll be getting a dim HDR game mode through firmware and be back at it. I've always said that an option for a bright HDR game mode and a dark HDR game mode that preserves highlights would be the best balance. Give us the choice.
I've installed the new firmware on my 2016 LCD. HDR Game still retains more highlight detail than HDR Standard, just not quite as much as it did previously. But it's certainly noticeable.
Did the LCD models ever have a bright HDR game mode equivalent to the HDR standard mode though? My Mother's LG 2017 LCD has always had a really dim HDR game mode, and combine that with the poor contrast it's not the best look. I imagine the tone mapping for the LCD models to be really different to the OLEDs.
 
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