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1000 Needles

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,138
Canada
The rape was hard enough to watch, but then we got "Why didn't you try harder?" from Hannah. That line absolutely destroyed me. And then the scene kept throwing even more punches

I was emotionally exhausted by the end of that episode
 

Chucker

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,328
Maryland
"Why didn't you try harder?" from Hannah. That line absolutely destroyed me. And then the scene kept throwing even more punches

I was emotionally exhausted by the end of that episode

Real talk right here. We just sat back and watched fail videos and various other stupid ass mindless comedy that youtube had before bed. We needed a palate cleanser.
 

Fulminator

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,199
I honestly cannot wait for the waterforda to get their comeuppance. Easily the most monstrous characters I have seen on tv in some time. Especially Serena. I hate her so much.

This show is so fucking good.
 

Vuze

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,186
Just catching up and watched episode 2. This show hits so hard. Getting shivers thinking parts of the show could happen at any time in the current world political climate.
 

DeaDPooL_jlp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,518
I was so aggravated when Nick, June, and Hannah were all together with only one guy standing in their way and Nick didn't become the hero I so badly want him to be. I fully expected him to kill the guy, warn the Martha, and the get the hell out of dodge. But no, totally opposite happened. I don't really know of any logical way they'll ever have a chance of getting Hannah back, unless an army does a full scale invasion and takes Gilead.
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,857
I was so aggravated when Nick, June, and Hannah were all together with only one guy standing in their way and Nick didn't become the hero I so badly want him to be. I fully expected him to kill the guy, warn the Martha, and the get the hell out of dodge. But no, totally opposite happened. I don't really know of any logical way they'll ever have a chance of getting Hannah back, unless an army does a full scale invasion and takes Gilead.

I was waiting for the same thing to happen. I thought they even set it up with Nick being visibly angry the whole episode. It would have been a stupid impulsive decision but it would have been awesome.
 

DeaDPooL_jlp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,518
I was waiting for the same thing to happen. I thought they even set it up with Nick being visibly angry the whole episode. It would have been a stupid impulsive decision but it would have been awesome.

Agreed. I thought June would tell him about the rape on the way there and that would've soon after sent him over the edge. The episode could've ended with him grabbing June while both being in shock and say "June, we have to go". Boom fade to black, I would've been left with my jaw on the floor. Instead I was left aggravated, but they have 3 more episodes to pull it all together.
 

luca

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,505
The first season is some of the best television I have ever seen, so I feel very unfortunate that I didn't get to watch the second season with y'all every week. Just a quick peak, but does it hold up with the first season? I'm slowly preparing for the next round of shows I wanna watch through.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,596
Although the rape was a power move between both Waterfords, wouldn't that be incredibly damaging to the fetus, being so close to being born? I was confused because they kept talking about wanting a "natural birth", and I assume they still are trying to get this baby, but I wouldn't think it would be good that far into pregnancy?
 

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
The first season is some of the best television I have ever seen, so I feel very unfortunate that I didn't get to watch the second season with y'all every week. Just a quick peak, but does it hold up with the first season? I'm slowly preparing for the next round of shows I wanna watch through.

It absolutely does.
 

Kirblar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
30,744
The first season is some of the best television I have ever seen, so I feel very unfortunate that I didn't get to watch the second season with y'all every week. Just a quick peak, but does it hold up with the first season? I'm slowly preparing for the next round of shows I wanna watch through.
It does, though the pacing is slower with the change from 10->13 episodes.
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,857
Although the rape was a power move between both Waterfords, wouldn't that be incredibly damaging to the fetus, being so close to being born? I was confused because they kept talking about wanting a "natural birth", and I assume they still are trying to get this baby, but I wouldn't think it would be good that far into pregnancy?

Some people think having sex when you're full term will induce labor. Rape would absolutely be bad though.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,596
Some people think having sex when you're full term will induce labor. Rape would absolutely be bad though.

No kidding. Of course, June's been through more than enough physical and psychological abuse at this point, I'm still surprised she didn't lose the baby after the heavy bleeding.
 

Resetta Stone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,515
Nothing, Arizona
Many people were comparing the Waterford power dynamic to Palpatine/Vader, but I'm convinced that is will start to resemble Megatron/Starscream as time goes on. One aspect of Gilead that has not been explored on any meaningful level yet has been the hypocritical biases for those on top. I don't expect any severe consequences to be visited upon the Waterfords on the level of what happened to Warren Putnam. The Waterfords will most likely be safe, but end up passively feuding among themselves.

The fact you compared the Waterfords to Transformers had me rolling, I am so sorry.

June (or somebody else) needs to clap some Gillys soon. Next episode looks pretty intense.
 

Mathieran

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,857
Agreed. I thought June would tell him about the rape on the way there and that would've soon after sent him over the edge. The episode could've ended with him grabbing June while both being in shock and say "June, we have to go". Boom fade to black, I would've been left with my jaw on the floor. Instead I was left aggravated, but they have 3 more episodes to pull it all together.

Yeah that would have been pretty awesome. I was still pretty bewildered at the end though. I cried so hard when she had to say bye to Hannah and then that happened all of a sudden.


No kidding. Of course, June's been through more than enough physical and psychological abuse at this point, I'm still surprised she didn't lose the baby after the heavy bleeding.

Yeah she's tough. I suppose violent rape is just another box to tick off at this point.

I think about all the shit she's been through and I'd imagine it's still probably not as bad as what slaves in the real world deal with.

It seems like sometimes she's gone through so much that she should be checked out by now but real people have endured even more.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,865
The fact you compared the Waterfords to Transformers had me rolling, I am so sorry.

June (or somebody else) needs to clap some Gillys soon. Next episode looks pretty intense.

People on Reddit were using the Vader/Palpatine comparison a few weeks ago, alluding to the idea that a redemption arc was in store for Serena. I couldn't help but use the Transformers comparison. Sorry, I could have used a better comparison, but the low bar was already set.

That being said, I anticipate a collision course between Commander Waterford and his wife going forward, and it will probably stem from the child going missing.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,865
Yeah that would have been pretty awesome. I was still pretty bewildered at the end though. I cried so hard when she had to say bye to Hannah and then that happened all of a sudden.




Yeah she's tough. I suppose violent rape is just another box to tick off at this point.

I think about all the shit she's been through and I'd imagine it's still probably not as bad as what slaves in the real world deal with.

It seems like sometimes she's gone through so much that she should be checked out by now but real people have endured even more.

You think June will escape by the end of this season, or does that happen next season?
 

Shy

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
18,520
NO. NO FUCKING REDEMPTION FOR SERENA. SHE DOESN'T DESERVE IT.

THE ONLY THING SHE DESERVES IS A FUCKING BULLET IN THE HEAD, AND TO BE LEFT IN A FUCKING SHALLOW DITCH.
 

DeaDPooL_jlp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,518
You think June will escape by the end of this season, or does that happen next season?

imo it needs to happen this season. The book isn't a massive series, its just one book, and I get that they want to expand on some gaps in the book but we need to start seeing some actual positive steps for her. There have already been too many close calls that end in failure for her. I suspect Nick will end up sacrificing himself by the end of this season which results in her getting out with her daughter as well as the current child she's pregnant with.

This will lead up to s3 centering around taking back Gilead from the cult and also Fred and Serena having a meltdown cause "their" child is now totally out of their grasp. I think this would be an amazing 3 season series, I'd hate for it to drag on simply because it's successful.

June escaping with her daughter, the fall of Gilead, and the punishment for those involved is all I'm interested in seeing at this point. A whole other season of "wonder if she'll get out" doesn't sound appealing.
 

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
Serena is a fantastically written (and acted) character though, cruel as she may be.
 

Resetta Stone

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,515
Nothing, Arizona
People on Reddit were using the Vader/Palpatine comparison a few weeks ago, alluding to the idea that a redemption arc was in store for Serena. I couldn't help but use the Transformers comparison. Sorry, I could have used a better comparison, but the low bar was already set.

That being said, I anticipate a collision course between Commander Waterford and his wife going forward, and it will probably stem from the child going missing.

I just had a mental image of the Waterfords yelling "DECEPTICONS, TRANSFORM AND RISE UP!" and then turning into some weird ass Mecha Hitler thing but with Ralph Fiennes' head on a mechanical body.
 

Curler

Member
Oct 26, 2017
15,596
imo it needs to happen this season. The book isn't a massive series, its just one book, and I get that they want to expand on some gaps in the book but we need to start seeing some actual positive steps for her. There have already been too many close calls that end in failure for her. I suspect Nick will end up sacrificing himself by the end of this season which results in her getting out with her daughter as well as the current child she's pregnant with.

This will lead up to s3 centering around taking back Gilead from the cult and also Fred and Serena having a meltdown cause "their" child is now totally out of their grasp. I think this would be an amazing 3 season series, I'd hate for it to drag on simply because it's successful.

June escaping with her daughter, the fall of Gilead, and the punishment for those involved is all I'm interested in seeing at this point. A whole other season of "wonder if she'll get out" doesn't sound appealing.

This sounds good. I want closure and kinda NEED a happy ending to this (as much as it can, of course). I want to see them fall, but no idea how it'll happen. More bombings of the commanders? Will Canada go in an fight? Will the captives of all "jobs" somehow arm themselves? That at least, should be interesting yo see how it goes.
 

DeaDPooL_jlp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
2,518
This sounds good. I want closure and kinda NEED a happy ending to this (as much as it can, of course). I want to see them fall, but no idea how it'll happen. More bombings of the commanders? Will Canada go in an fight? Will the captives of all "jobs" somehow arm themselves? That at least, should be interesting yo see how it goes.

I would love for the fall of Gilead to come from within. The thought of seeing a bunch of Martha's and handmaids wielding assault rifles taking over each of their household would be amazing. I think logically the downfall will come by way of Canada and other forces joining together. Especially after Canada saw the reception the Waterfords got during their visit.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,865
imo it needs to happen this season. The book isn't a massive series, its just one book, and I get that they want to expand on some gaps in the book but we need to start seeing some actual positive steps for her. There have already been too many close calls that end in failure for her. I suspect Nick will end up sacrificing himself by the end of this season which results in her getting out with her daughter as well as the current child she's pregnant with.

This will lead up to s3 centering around taking back Gilead from the cult and also Fred and Serena having a meltdown cause "their" child is now totally out of their grasp. I think this would be an amazing 3 season series, I'd hate for it to drag on simply because it's successful.

June escaping with her daughter, the fall of Gilead, and the punishment for those involved is all I'm interested in seeing at this point. A whole other season of "wonder if she'll get out" doesn't sound appealing.

I think on a plot level that neither June or Serena should have the child. That having it taken off the chessboard entirely by being spirited to Canada would allow give some measure of catharsis, even if she can't achieve true deliverance right now.

Some are theorizing that Commander Fred knows that Nick is the father and set him up to be bumped off. And that his arranging June's reunion with Hannah was to aggrandize this false sense of benevolent he has, while at the same time exerting control over June, knowing full well that this reunion would break June even further.

Either way, I could see Fred becoming cold and indifferent to the child, especially if it turns out to be a girl. He seems confidant that it will be a boy. Assuming that the child ends up falling into the Waterford's hands, it'll probably be very short lived, and once the child is taken to safety, both of the Waterfords will be pointing fingers at each other -- especially if it becomes apparent that Fred doesn't even care about the child to begin with. The question is how Fred was able to figure out that Nick was the father. Both Serena and June push his buttons on separate occasions, but you have to assume that it could have been other individuals, such as their fertility doctor.
 

Crackhead_Bob

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
1,865
I would love for the fall of Gilead to come from within. The thought of seeing a bunch of Martha's and handmaids wielding assault rifles taking over each of their household would be amazing. I think logically the downfall will come by way of Canada and other forces joining together. Especially after Canada saw the reception the Waterfords got during their visit.

I agree. The question is how do you stage these military conflicts as the backdrop? You can have battle sequences, but they can't be on the level of a huge set piece. It would probably have to be something along the lines of the colony scenes or Canada, where they're infrequent and spaced apart to keep the viewers up to speed on what's happening outside of Gilead's Boston. Maybe devote one full episode to the military side of the conflict, similar to how season one had a very Luke centric episode.

Do you think it's possible that they could do an entire episode without any of the main characters in it at all? Do an entire episode like Band of Brothers, and then occasionally revisit the battle during vital stages in the conflict as it draws on?
 
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Chittagong

Member
Oct 26, 2017
1,793
London, UK
Recently caught up with this show, what a fantastic TV experience.

Is UK iTunes only up to S2E5? My purchase queue shows all episode descriptions until S2 finale, but anything post E5 is marked "Series Only"

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Aiii

何これ
Member
Oct 24, 2017
8,178
I wouldn't say this show has made me feel that happy at any point. The literal only thing that comes to mind is Moira making it to Canada.
 

Lady Murasaki

Scary Shiny Glasses
Member
Oct 25, 2017
680
Watched the S2E09 and then S2E10 one after the other, and it was a powerful and draining experience. First Serena being beaten previously, then humiliated in many little ways in Canada... After the 'Women's Work' episode, and the ones that followed, I almost extended my sorority to her but then...

Serena deserves to pay for everything she did in the worst way possible. All the things she suffered weren't but a slap on the wrist compared to the monstrosities she enables since the beginning. She turned away the chance to run away to Hawaii, and this showed she isn't just a victim, she IS a victim, but of something she created almost by herself. Gilead probably isn't the world she dreamed of, but it's the world she helped to build and she isn't willing to leave. Serena to me is a portrayal of the trap women who defend oppressive agendas put themselves in - they have deep mental scars, but as the complete human beings they are - even when they give this up to please their male pairs like she did - they are accountable for this and for their actions too.

I admire Margaret Atwood as a feminist author because she can build her female characters like this, complete human beings, at the same time she shows clearly they are deeply scarred by the oppressive world they live in. Both Alias Grace and THT shows captured this nuance beautifully. Btw, I personally think THT is the best thing we have in television right now.

About the torture porn, I felt my stomach turn on the rape scene. For a moment I considered stopping to watch the series altogether, but then I realized something: THIS is what WILL happen if we give up our freedom. It's important for us to see it - as it is important to see what the Holocaust was, for example - as a reminder. Later I saw the executive producer saying this same thing and I think this is what makes this show more than simple entertainment, and elevates it to art and a political manifesto.

If something like Gilead arises, it WON'T STOP. People will be tortured and killed on a daily basis, women will be raped like June, Emily, Janine and Moira, children will be taken away like Hannah. The resistance will end on the wall like Omar. I think the most brilliant part of this show is giving these people faces and showing us their pain in close up, so we never forget we CAN'T let this happen.
 

RatskyWatsky

Are we human or are we dancer?
Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,931
Watched the S2E09 and then S2E10 one after the other, and it was a powerful and draining experience. First Serena being beaten previously, then humiliated in many little ways in Canada... After the 'Women's Work' episode, and the ones that followed, I almost extended my sorority to her but then...

Serena deserves to pay for everything she did in the worst way possible. All the things she suffered weren't but a slap on the wrist compared to the monstrosities she enables since the beginning. She turned away the chance to run away to Hawaii, and this showed she isn't just a victim, she IS a victim, but of something she created almost by herself. Gilead probably isn't the world she dreamed of, but it's the world she helped to build and she isn't willing to leave. Serena to me is a portrayal of the trap women who defend oppressive agendas put themselves in - they have deep mental scars, but as the complete human beings they are - even when they give this up to please their male pairs like she did - they are accountable for this and for their actions too.

I admire Margaret Atwood as a feminist author because she can build her female characters like this, complete human beings, at the same time she shows clearly they are deeply scarred by the oppressive world they live in. Both Alias Grace and THT shows captured this nuance beautifully. Btw, I personally think THT is the best thing we have in television right now.

About the torture porn, I felt my stomach turn on the rape scene. For a moment I considered stopping to watch the series altogether, but then I realized something: THIS is what WILL happen if we give up our freedom. It's important for us to see it - as it is important to see what the Holocaust was, for example - as a reminder. Later I saw the executive producer saying this same thing and I think this is what makes this show more than simple entertainment, and elevates it to art and a political manifesto.

If something like Gilead arises, it WON'T STOP. People will be tortured and killed on a daily basis, women will be raped like June, Emily, Janine and Moira, children will be taken away like Hannah. The resistance will end on the wall like Omar. I think the most brilliant part of this show is giving these people faces and showing us their pain in close up, so we never forget we CAN'T let this happen.

Well said!
 

Leeness

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,827
I hope anyone who thought Serena was redeemable loses that idea after this episode :|

Her and her hubby both deserve to hang on the wall.
 

Scythe

The Fallen
Oct 27, 2017
1,087
Just caught up and watched the latest two episodes back-to-back. Serena had her chance for redemption a loooong time ago. She could have prevented this all from happening. Instead, it's her and Fred's fault that multiple people, including families, are suffering, so they are not redeemable in the slightest.

The scene with June and Hannah nearly broke me. The snow scene's cinematography was beautiful as they talked outside, a mix of devastation and surrealism, their red and pink outfits shrouded by all the negative space and emptiness of the world around them. Honestly, I thought Fred set June and Nick up so those guards would kill them there, giving June her only and last opportunity to see her daughter before dying. Maybe it was the way the conversation was framed by the guard for Hannah and the Martha, but it seemed like that's where it was heading.

Next episode looks spectacular based off the preview. I hope they can maintain this momentum for the remaining episodes.
 

The Climaxan

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,971
NC-USA
I had fallen completely behind on season 2. Binged 10 episodes over the weekend to catch up. Holy shit, what a show. I need therapy now, but what a fucking show.
 

mjc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
5,879
Serena absolutely does not deserve a redemption at this point, she crossed that threshold this last episode. That's a point of no return.