Normalisation of 'plus-size' risks hidden danger of obesity, study finds (Read OP)

808s & Villainy said:

How people come in here and think mentioning they're super muscular and workout hours a week somehow applies to more than a small percentage of people is beyond me. Like, how could you possibly think your, fairly unique situation, is generalizable? Or even close to the average? Like were you just trying to brag or did you think this study was talking about people like you?

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Because this is about clothing standards. Athletic bodies exist and deserved to be clothed too. What would you prefer I do? Stay quiet while others say I should be ashamed to be my size despite my own doctor, not a bunch of random forum posters, says I'm healthy.

Not everyone who is size six is healthy. Not everyone who isn't is unhealthy. If shame was a fix to the obesity crises then why did it keep exploding through the mean as shit eighties? Banning clothing sizes is not the way.

Principate said:

I don't think when they was referring to that when talking about it not being genetics, especially not larger bottom sizes due to muscles. That's just the age old BMI problem, there's nothing health wise wrong with having large muscular legs. Thei contention that it's not all genetics is having thighs with high body fat percentage. That's not genetics. You may be predisposed to having it but that fat is not going to appear from nowhere. That fat comes from eating and exercise habits. How it's distributed is genetics. The fact it's there generally is not.

Yes some people have higher metabolisms than others but that's not the defining difference between being overweight and slim.

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Yeah, I get you. I might have misread.

The thing is, telling someone the dangers of obesity can be shaming(as evidenced by the outrage over the obesity advert we had in the UK). Which is a big fucking problem. It is so subjective and sensitive an issue that you really need to reframe it. We should celebrate healthiness and focus less on weight specifically (a change in weight being the end of a process rather than the goal). This is hard because weight is an intuitive way of understanding healthiness (though not accurate).

Dust said:

It's simple.
Make fat/obese people pay fat tax since they cost more in terms of pretty much everything.

Maybe then people will try to stay in moderate shape.

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Yeah and if they can't pay let's put em in debtor's prison. Where the government can regiment their eating....

Jesus christ. What's wrong with you.

RDreamer said:

But the issue is that choice is to basically give away money. The combo doesn't get cheaper because you've opted for water.

I do think it's bad that doing the healthy thing in a lot of ways tends to mean paying either the same or more for less calories. That shouldn't really be what's happening. I mean unless somehow your order takes longer to actually make or something.

I had a huge diet and I kind of hated that was the case a lot of times. I chose to eat at QDoba a lot since it was a place I could go to and eat relatively healthy but I would pay the same for like 1300 calories or 700 calories. Seemed weird to me. Same with opting out of a soda. It get you nothing.

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At subway, chick fil a, Whataburger and jimmy johns i usually save 50 cents to a dollar when only getting fries or chips

excelsiorlef said:

Yeah and if they can't pay let's put em in debtor's prison. Where the government can regiment their eating....

Jesus christ. What's wrong with you.

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I used to work as a personal trainer at a gym and I am mega jaded on the subject, it made me hate how lazy some people truly are.
The excuses I heard...

This must be one of those "no shit" studies. Like, the HAES movement has been long debunked for being pseudoscientific and downright dangerous.

Gugi40 said:

You get it from weighing yourself every week and measuring every single calorie and then when you go up to 1200 per day you start gaining weight that's when you know your general threshold. There is no doctor or testing that you can do to give your exact threshold because everyone's metabolism works differently, I have been zigzagging my calories at a decent rate but when I was cutting hard to flush the weight off i was doing 300 to 400 calories per day and having loads of energy. I have been this way for almost 2 years now and my health has only become better, however I know this is not going to be the case for 80% of people in my height, age, gender, and weight bracket. I am still not at the weight I need to be despite exercising as much as possible and eating below 900 calories per day.

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more like 99.9% of people. 300 calories is like a glass of milk and two oreos or an apple and 2 slices of bread. Im 155 and my bmr is 2600 to maintain, with my activity level.

Metalingus said:

How are people over-sensitive about shaming? Shaming is very cruel, of course people are going to be sensitive over it.

People who choose to ignore healthy, that's not my call to make. I'm certainly not going to shame someone for it. Like if some random stranger on the internet posts a body positive picture of themselves, I'm not going to go out of my way to say "You know obesity can kill you right?" That would be fucking rude and uncalled for. I don't go around posting that people shouldn't smoke or drink. They're adults, it's not my place and people on here say that "oh I'm just concerned" as a defense to be an asshole. Now if it's someone I know personally, if they talked to me and said they want to lose weight. I'd be all for it and encourage them. If they fall off the wagon, I'm not gonna tell them I'm disappointed and it's shameful. Just tell them give it their best.

Yes education is very important. I'm not advocating that we stop educating and learning more about this.

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I'm just gonna say i agree with you. Like you I'd never tell a large-figured person that they are large and throw hurtful words at them. I do think it is worth discussing if/when the time came to it.

All I mean is that if indeed "body positivity" has gotten to a point where some folk ignore the real implications and problems of obesity (note: I haven't and will not use the term overweight for this, having 'love handles' isn't the issue), then THAT is a problem.

And still, it's hard to take the bolded advice when you apply it to other things. If you wanna drink? The government allows it! If you wanna drink so much you end up driving and killing someone, then we got a problem. I feel obesity and measures to curb it (soda taxes, portion resizing, PSAs, etc), whether for yourself or (daresay) government promoted aren't really.... the worst idea. Some people have problems controlling instincts and appetites, and certain aspects within our society (such as eating cultures or urban lifestyle or availability/affordability of easy-to-make fatty foods) need to be taken a look at too because it's something we're steeped in that also makes poor eating habits hard to resist. Obesity, like many other physical problems and/or diseases, shouldn't be promoted as a "livin' free and happy lifestyle" IMO. People need to move.

It's absurd to me that people can even frame the problem as "finding a middleground between fat shaming and celebrating obesity" as if that were a linear scale which comprised the entire issue.

1. We can recognize that obesity is a problem
2. We can choose not to unconstructively shame people for their weight
3. We can encourage kids to maintain a healthy weight
4. We can teach kids the value of bettering themselves but also not to be ashamed of the flaws they do have

None of these things conflict with each other and there is no superficial middleground that needs to be sought among them because they're all important. How can we actually fight obesity? I think the best single move would be to improve education on it. It's my impression that most overweight people, especially kids, would like to lose the weight if they could, but the process of losing weight is massively overcomplicated by the modern nihilistic carnival of fad diets.

We've got countless frauds marketing all these absurd diets which make it seem like weight loss is an unsolvable dilemma with nothing but wild guesses to pick from and try. Even people that aren't rendered hopeless by the misinformation, even those that pick a diet that can at least theoretically work will fall for the marketing ploy that their diet is the magic antidote that makes weight loss effortless, then give up and backslide the first time they stumble. Sure kids are being taught, probably briefly and devoid of context, that body weight is a product of the arithmetic of calories, but they're not being taught to recognize all the marketing bullshit pretending to sell a better product than learning simple dietary habits and discipline.

Dust said:

It's simple.
Make fat/obese people pay fat tax since they cost more in terms of pretty much everything.

Maybe then people will try to stay in moderate shape.

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Most people would need to pay for a gym anyway in that case, or at least pay for some kind of equipment unless you were into living your life by calorie numbers exclusively, so it's kinda whatever, you're paying either way.

Spyder_Monkey said:

I feel like this is just giving people an excuse to fat shame.

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Pretty much

You can already see it in this thread.

Dust said:

It's simple.
Make fat/obese people pay fat tax since they cost more in terms of pretty much everything.

Maybe then people will try to stay in moderate shape.

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if you do that you need to do the same for people who smoke, people who dont do sports, people whose family have a history of diseases etc.

Cyanity said:

So what's the solution? Body-positivity culture allows people feel better about themselves on a day to day basis. Who are we to go back to fat-shaming? There must be a way to curb the obesity epidemic without making people feel like shit.

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The solution is to make access and purchasing of healthy foods a lot more accessible than 10000 calories crap. On top of that people need to have jobs that pay more so they have more time at home to cook healthier meals.

At Wal-Mart you can get a 'meal deal' of mashed potatoes(with gravy), macaroni, and fried chicken for $4.00. A single container of grapes cost $3.45 on average.

For low income families and those with tight budgets the choice isn't that hard in regards to what to pick as a meal.

MagicDoogies said:

At Wal-Mart you can get a 'meal deal' of mashed potatoes(with gravy), macaroni, and fried chicken for $4.00. A single container of grapes cost $3.45 on average.

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You can have a 600 calorie meal deal.

riotous said:

So don't buy the combo meal?

Get a water and the items separate; usually at least a few cents cheaper that way. It's not like the soda is actually what you are paying for it's practically free to the restaurant.

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A.By said:

Just get fries and a burger then, it's cheaper + water

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I don't know why you guys are quoting me like I do this when I explicitly stated that I rarely do this.

The fact is that people are encouraged to get the combos due to cheaper prices, and most people are gonna choose sodas for the drink 'cause the other options are awful. Sodas are a normal part of people's eating experience, and that's problem.

Dice said:

I'm just gonna say i agree with you. Like you I'd never tell a large-figured person that they are large and throw hurtful words at them. I do think it is worth discussing if/when the time came to it.

All I mean is that if indeed "body positivity" has gotten to a point where some folk ignore the real implications and problems of obesity (note: I haven't and will not use the term overweight for this, having 'love handles' isn't the issue), then THAT is a problem.

And still, it's hard to take the bolded advice when you apply it to other things. If you wanna drink? The government allows it! If you wanna drink so much you end up driving and killing someone, then we got a problem. I feel obesity and measures to curb it (soda taxes, portion resizing, PSAs, etc), whether for yourself or (daresay) government promoted aren't really.... the worst idea. Some people have problems controlling instincts and appetites, and certain aspects within our society (such as eating cultures or urban lifestyle or availability/affordability of easy-to-make fatty foods) need to be taken a look at too because it's something we're steeped in that also makes poor eating habits hard to resist. Obesity, like many other physical problems and/or diseases, shouldn't be promoted as a "livin' free and happy lifestyle" IMO. People need to move.

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I agree with those measures to curb obesity.
It's still going to be up to people whether to take that step to being healthier.

I cannot stress enough how terrible sodas, chips, and fries are. If there were three more basic "meal staples" that are absolute trash to consume even semi-regularly it's those. Ignore combos if you really don't see yourself eating so much.

Small things can take you a good distance too.
Getting a Large Soda? Get a small instead (or split a medium with someone)
Making three eggs? Make two, you'll be just as full.
Got a couple of cookies? Eat one, save the other for later.
Heading to a restaurant? Park farther out.
Eating pasta? Save half (heck even 1/3) for lunch tomorrow!

If you're having trouble with dieting, then just try to make more conscious eating decisions.

Nowise10 said:

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Lmfao

Metalingus said:

How are people over-sensitive about shaming? Shaming is very cruel, of course people are going to be sensitive over it.

People who choose to ignore healthy, that's not my call to make. I'm certainly not going to shame someone for it. Like if some random stranger on the internet posts a body positive picture of themselves, I'm not going to go out of my way to say "You know obesity can kill you right?" That would be fucking rude and uncalled for. I don't go around posting that people shouldn't smoke or drink. They're adults, it's not my place and people on here say that "oh I'm just concerned" as a defense to be an asshole. Now if it's someone I know personally, if they talked to me and said they want to lose weight. I'd be all for it and encourage them. If they fall off the wagon, I'm not gonna tell them I'm disappointed and it's shameful. Just tell them give it their best. I'm also certainly not going to tell them they shouldn't feel good about themselves if they're obese.

Yes education is very important. I'm not advocating that we stop educating and learning more about this.

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I mean, society should be telling people to not drink and smoke. Just as it should be telling people they should not be obese. Pushing a healthy lifestyle is for the benefit for everyone. You will still have alcoholics, chain smokers, and overeaters, but at least you will do what you can to educate people.

To me, celebrating obesity is no different than celebrating smoking a pack a day.

Imo

Don't shame people for being overweight
Don't presume to know what led to someone being overweight
Don't discriminate due to weight
Don't pretend being overweight is okay in terms of health - or even something to be empowered
Don't shame people who find overweight people unattractive

Spyder_Monkey said:

"Hey don't feel bad for going to the beach." Isn't celebrating obesity.

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A picture of three obese women and a caption that literally says "love your body" isn't celebrating obesity?

surejan.gif

Eatin' Olives said:

A picture of three obese women and a caption that literally says "love your body" isn't celebrating obesity?

surejan.gif

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I don't know if you know this, but people are assholes.

Eatin' Olives said:

A picture of three obese women and a caption that literally says "love your body" isn't celebrating obesity?

surejan.gif

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Would you prefer "hate your body"?

Cyanity said:

So what's the solution? Body-positivity culture allows people feel better about themselves on a day to day basis. Who are we to go back to fat-shaming? There must be a way to curb the obesity epidemic without making people feel like shit.

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So I think the problem is that body positivity morphed rather quickly into the Healthy At Any Size myth, and there has been this kind of bizarre trend of pretending that obesity is normal and is not related to myriad deadly health effects.

The solution of course is not to "fat shame", but we can also be honest about health and not pretend that weighing 300 pounds doesn't have health consequences.

Doesn't mean we should confront heavy people. To each their own or whatever. But we all need to learn the difference between body image and self asteem versus obesity and all of its comorbidities.

Nobody should feel bad for how they look. But they are doing themselves a lot of damage by pretending that they're healthy when they're not. That's delusional and dishonest and doesn't help anything other than to maybe put up temporary barriers around the ego of a person that may still wind up dead at 50 of a heart attack.

Not to be crass, but to paraphrase a mean partner I used to have in EMS: There are a lot of fat people, and there are a lot of old people, but not that many fat old people.

Spyder_Monkey said:

I don't know if you know this, but people are assholes.

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What does that have to do with anything?

Metalingus said:

Would you prefer "hate your body"?

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I'm giving an example of an ad campaign that's celebrating obesity. There should be a clear distinction between promoting healthier lifestyles that don't involve fat shaming and actively celebrating obesity. It's not easy messaging, considering how ad campaigns are literally designed to distill a message and remove as much nuance as possible, but it's something worth bringing up. Campaigns that aim to make people NOT feel like shit for their obesity sometimes have the inadvertent effect of celebrating it.

And no, "hate your body" isn't the answer. Fat shaming is horrible.

I got pretty chubby for a few years and losing that weight was one of the harder things I've ever done. I 100% agree with the idea that we need to do a better job encouraging people to be healthier, but some people also don't understand how difficult it is to lose weight which leads to some of the reactions like we see in this thread

I also used to be one of those "calories in vs. calories out dummy" people but in practice it's not so easy

healthy snacks are the most expensive part of eating healthy.

Sowrong said:

more like 99.9% of people. 300 calories is like a glass of milk and two oreos or an apple and 2 slices of bread. Im 155 and my bmr is 2600 to maintain, with my activity level.

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Well like I said, everyone is different this just proves my point especially since our stats are different lol thus making our metabolism vary.

Cas said:

Yep, that's pretty bad. Hey if you ever do Amazon clothes shopping, a lot of Chinese origin/made clothing and sellers use original small sizing. Many True to size Smalls and Xtra Smalls can be found on there. It's become a minefield trying to do online clothes shopping because of the huge size discrepancy between brands now, lol. I spend hours scrolling through reviews trying to figure out real sizing before purchasing and noticed the difference. I hope the trend stops, I don't want to end up in a similar fate!

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Yeah I'm aware of it, but the stuff off Amazon is just so cheap. Not in price only, but in quality and material.

Dralos said:

if you do that you need to do the same for people who smoke, people who dont do sports, people whose family have a history of diseases etc.

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??? do you realize that the tax on cigarettes is obscene ... for this reason?

Pet said:

??? do you realize that the tax on cigarettes is obscene ... for this reason?

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To be fair we don't tax the smokers themselves only the product. It'd make more sense to tax food that was high in fat/sugar than giving individuals a tax for being fat. That way just like smokers they wouldn't be taxed when avoiding the problem.

Chamberlin said:

1. We can encourage kids to maintain a healthy weight
2. We can teach kids the value of bettering themselves but also not to be ashamed of the flaws they do have

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The problem with these two is regardless of education kids have little agency in eating healthy if their parents are cooking/bringing home shitty food. I'm not sure what the solution is there, but parents letting/making kids fat is borderline child abuse to me. It leads to them being more likely to get bullied, much more likely to be overweight for the rest of their life and have all the health problems that come withtat, can mess up metabolism and make it harder for them to lose weight as an adult etc.

Servbot24 said:

Imo

Don't shame people for being overweight
Don't presume to know what led to someone being overweight
Don't discriminate due to weight
Don't pretend being overweight is okay in terms of health - or even something to be empowered
Don't shame people who find overweight people unattractive

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It's really that simple on a personal level in terms of how to treat people.

It's much harder to think about how to tackle the problem society wide in terms of promoting more people to be healthy and not fat shaming and creating another set of public health problems through increased depression, eating disorders, suicides etc.

Metalingus said:

Would you prefer "hate your body"?

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There doesn't have to be an opposing ad. We can counter fat shaming without having ads that promote it being ok, attractive, sexy etc. to be obese. We should shame the hell out of fat shamers and have more adds promoting the benefits of a healthy diet and lifestyle (excercise etc.).

Rayne said:

To be fair we don't tax the smokers themselves only the product. It'd make more sense to tax food that was high in fat/sugar than giving individuals a tax for being fat. That way just like smokers they wouldn't be taxed when avoiding the problem.

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Fat makes people fat?

PanickyFool said:

Fat makes people fat?

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Eating too much of it does yes. (Unless you're being snarky in which case whoops)

Plus if you're going to tax fat people for being unhealthy why exactly do other people with unhealthy habits get a pass?

okayfrog said:

Those options suck. Seriously. Whenever I end up with a combo meal, I almost can't not get soda -- either that or a very sugary juice. Water? It's water. Am I really gonna pay for water? Unsweetened tea, seriously? I mean, I'm okay with it, but again, it's got no flavor. Same goes for diet soda.

I can't blame the people for going for the soda when the options are so bad.

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I can't understand this mindset. It is one big excuse for you to not just drink water. You know, what nature intended for humans. You pay for a lot of things you probably don't think you should, drink the damn water and you'll eventually come to desire it above all other drinks.

Aviator Irelia said:

I can't understand this mindset. It is one big excuse for you to not just drink water. You know, what nature intended for humans. You pay for a lot of things you probably don't think you should, drink the damn water and you'll eventually come to desire it above all other drinks.

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I like water. I'm still not paying for it when I could just drink tap for free. ANd I say this as someone who drinks at least a half gallon of water a day at a minimum.

Rayne said:

I like water. I'm still not paying for it when I could just drink tap for free. ANd I say this as someone who drinks at least a half gallon of water a day at a minimum.

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Buy a refillable bottle that keeps water cold for 24 hours and carry it around, then don't pay for a full meal. Free beverage. Either way I have to give the side eye to anyone who will pay for unhealthy sugary soda but turn their nose up at paying a few cents for water. Shit most fast food places will give you water for free in a cup.

I saw someone mention this already, but yeah people probably know that being obese is harmful to one's health just like everyone should know by know that smoking, alcohol etc. is bad for your health. And of course we need to keep talking about these health risks in education and media, they shouldn't be brushed under the rug. But body shaming is another thing than educating people about the health risks. People aren't ashamed/afraid going to a beach or gym in example because they might get a heart attack, but the judgement, snickering and even bullying from other people. This shouldn't be a thing, for any decent person.

flkRaven said:

I'm built like the dude on the bottom right, just shorter. I am overweight, and am trying to diet because I want to be healthier. Am I scum for believing my body weight is unhealthy?

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English isn't my native language, but to my understanding obese is step above being overweight. Yeah those people seem to be overweight, but not sure if obese.

Rayne said:

Eating too much of it does yes. (Unless you're being snarky in which case whoops)

Plus if you're going to tax fat people for being unhealthy why exactly do other people with unhealthy habits get a pass?

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Tobacco and alcohol are taxed really heavily in where I live, I don't mind it at all even though I'm a smoker. There was something for sweets too (candy, soda and ice cream), but it got removed because EU didn't like it.

Aviator Irelia said:

Buy a refillable bottle that keeps water cold for 24 hours and carry it around, then don't pay for a full meal. Free beverage

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True that'll work. (Only time I personally paid for water when going out was when I visited my uncle in Jersey. I don't know what's with the tap water there but it made me sick. The disgust I had when I realized buying bottled was my only option >_> ) Most of the thermos I bought were crap that didn't work too well.

Budi said:

Tobacco and alcohol is taxed really heavily in where I live, I don't mind it at all even though I'm a smoker. There was something for sweets too (candy, soda and ice cream), but it got removed because EU didn't like it.

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Honestly I wouldn't mind sweets being super taxed. (I also would prefer if companies stopped dumping garbage in food to make it more addicting). Taxing the products that contribute to the issue makes perfect sense for me.

Dust said:

It's simple.
Make fat/obese people pay fat tax since they cost more in terms of pretty much everything.

Maybe then people will try to stay in moderate shape.

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My god just shut the fuck up and die.

All this thread did was make me eat more than i should.

DigitalOp said:

According to ERA, the above people are being considered obese, unhealthy and are being coddled for accepting their bodies.



Some of you posters in here are scum. What an ugly view of people you have.

Pisses me off to no end.

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They are obese or at least quite overweight. I certainly don't support treating them like shit as individuals, but I also do not feel that society should ever embrace that body type as a positive thing.

okayfrog said:

Really wish there was a movement to phase out sodas as part of combo meals. Sodas should be treated as deserts.

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Yep cut out Soda from my diet yeeeers ago its been great.

Zefah said:

They are obese or at least quite overweight. I certainly don't support treating them like shit as individuals, but I also do not feel that society should ever embrace that body type as a positive thing.

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Yeah only the judgement and bullying needs to stop, doesn't need to be celebrated. We don't need to go to extremes. But I guess it's because of the shaming and such there's the body positivity movement to counter that. Which is for better mental health I think. People should be healthy for being healthy, not because some people might not want to see overweight people or think less of them.

Rayne said:

To be fair we don't tax the smokers themselves only the product. It'd make more sense to tax food that was high in fat/sugar than giving individuals a tax for being fat. That way just like smokers they wouldn't be taxed when avoiding the problem.

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Yeah you're right, and I'm okay with a soda tax and whatnot.

I think NYC tried it though, and the outrage was so lulz.

Dust said:

It's simple.
Make fat/obese people pay fat tax since they cost more in terms of pretty much everything.

Maybe then people will try to stay in moderate shape.

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is this irony

like, I don't know. People always surprise me.

Pet said:

Yeah you're right, and I'm okay with a soda tax and whatnot.

I think NYC tried it though, and the outrage was so lulz.

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Same I might grumble about it when I want something but the benefits outweigh (lol) that.

Sometimes I wish they'd just rip the bandaid off. Yes people are going to complain but with how much they go on about the public good they sure shy away from it often.

Cyanity said:

So what's the solution? Body-positivity culture allows people feel better about themselves on a day to day basis. Who are we to go back to fat-shaming? There must be a way to curb the obesity epidemic without making people feel like shit.

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!!!!!

Servbot24 said:

Imo

Don't shame people for being overweight
Don't presume to know what led to someone being overweight
Don't discriminate due to weight
Don't pretend being overweight is okay in terms of health - or even something to be empowered
Don't shame people who find overweight people unattractive

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Agree with all of this

You can't be body positive in a casket.

Obesity should not be something to be celebrated just because people are too much in denial about their eating habits.

If you are big enough that you have to shop in the plus size section, your health is at risk. Period.

dmaul1114 said:

The problem with these two is regardless of education kids have little agency in eating healthy if their parents are cooking/bringing home shitty food. I'm not sure what the solution is there, but parents letting/making kids fat is borderline child abuse to me. It leads to them being more likely to get bullied, much more likely to be overweight for the rest of their life and have all the health problems that come withtat, can mess up metabolism and make it harder for them to lose weight as an adult etc.

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You're right. I was focusing on the false dichotomy of shame vs denial, but children don't have much control over what they eat if their parents are careless about what they feed them. Maybe at some point we'll be able to recognize it as a form of neglect. We can all agree it should be (and I imagine has been prosecuted as) criminal neglect to forcefeed a child to critically morbid obesity, so maybe it's time we think about where to draw the line. It has to be closer to health than heart attacks and immobility. There's really a double standard if you think about it regarding other ways we judge and sometimes criminalize parents for risking and neglecting their children's health compared to the tragically mundane problem of childhood obesity. People on social media will sooner call someone out for having an obese cat or dog than an obese child. It's far too normalized.