Always tradeoffs between fidelity and performance.
I dont understand why people dont get this
I dont understand why people dont get this
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Next-gen has to mass-transition to 60fps
- Thread starter Wollan
- Start date
Some games are hard locked 30fps even on PC.
Furthermore, there are exclusives or games that are just plain unavailable on console.
Also, buying a PC that can reliably pull 60fps in new releases for as long as a console is quite expensive.
Until 8K 120FPS is affordable to enthusaists, I don't think we're near 4K, let alone 4K 60FPS for us average users.
4K 60fps is across the board is currently a pipe for a 1080 Ti user, without concessions. The next consoles will be no exceptions, so 4K 30fps it will be.
How many modern RPGs have you even played at 60fps? It's quite easy to not miss what you've never had.
Since I switched to > 60 Hz/FPS for most things 30 feels even jarring, especially in action-heavy genres.
I believe they are simply stating a preference for performance over fidelity.
Why do you think people don't understand that?
I believe they are simply stating a preference for performance over fidelity.
Real life in 1080p looks far superior than any game in 8k. And since we are nowhere near real life graphics, it might be an idea to just stop at 4k for a while and start focussing on added effects again instead of this mindless "I want 4k" resolution game.
Who the hell cares about clarity if the graphics themselves could be so much better.
I can't remember the last time I saw gameplay in a TV commercial.
I made a thread in April called "I seriously love that 60fps is becoming a trend now" but nobody wanted to believe me.
https://www.resetera.com/threads/i-seriously-love-that-60fps-is-becoming-a-trend-now.33319/
I fully agree with you, too.
you poor victim.
But i do agree. It's more of a trend and i hope it will become even more of a trend.
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I get what your saying about assets or fix needing to step up not just pixel density but the above bit is wrong.
Real life in 1080p looks so good because the 1080p is being captured from an infinitely higher source to begin with. This is why 480p is very serviceable to people.
60fps is something that will happen more and more as less ambitious games have an excess of power to pull off what they're attempting. This console generation most genres that 'need' 60fps are 60fps, outside of their open world counterparts (like an open world racing game, or an open world shooter). I don't think open world games will be a hold out next gen.
If your goal is to push technology 30fps is fine. If there's a game based around physics interactions that you can only pull off at 30fps then that's valid. Or a game that's striving for graphical photo realism - that's fine too.
If your goal is to push technology 30fps is fine. If there's a game based around physics interactions that you can only pull off at 30fps then that's valid. Or a game that's striving for graphical photo realism - that's fine too.
We've been hearing this since the PS1 days, there is always room for improvement. I'd rather have the option to choose but if i had to choose I'd rather have solid 30fps with better graphics as do most people.
WTF
I just found out that you are sitting right here in Vienna. Great Job on Ori!
Thanks :)
By now Moon Studios employs 50 folks from over 34 different countries. I'm still here in Vienna :)
Oh, ok, I just googled the Studio and saw that the Headquarters was in Vienna, so I just assumed ...
Yes :( :( :(
But yeah, I definitely see a trend here, along the remasters and High Framerate modes (and hopefully Fortnite will provide some shift in how people perceive framerates)
OP
OP
The whole "well it didn't happen before so it won't happen now" thing is just so inane to me. Like sure if you wanna dedicate the very base level brain cells to the subject instead of actually taking a look at trends we're seeing in the industry.
There will never be a standard or transition period, but as we reach the point of diminishing returns, we'll gradually see better tools developed and more and more studios reaching this point. Even then, however, we'll absolutely never see a standard or requirement for 60fps.
Was just watching this video for the new Google Project Stream from the other thread:
It's kind of sad that you can play AC: Odyssey in your browser at 60fps, and on PS4 Pro/Xbox One X you are limited to 30fps. Geforce Now is even capable of streaming games like Fortnite at 120fps. Imo this is another reason why next-gen needs to transition to 60fps, otherwise they risk becoming obsolete.
It's kind of sad that you can play AC: Odyssey in your browser at 60fps, and on PS4 Pro/Xbox One X you are limited to 30fps. Geforce Now is even capable of streaming games like Fortnite at 120fps. Imo this is another reason why next-gen needs to transition to 60fps, otherwise they risk becoming obsolete.
There's this fantasy that as games technologically advance so does the frame rate. It's a fantasty though. There is no standard. It's whatever your pc can run, or whatever the programmers decide to do on the console/hardware.
The phrase 'it's 2018 why aren't all games 60 FPS' comes to mind.
It doesn't make sense though. Plenty of games were 60 FPS on console in 2008 and even 1998. If you're seeing a lot of 60 FPS games this gen and wonder why they can't all be, chances are you've been playing a lot of HD remasters. There will never Be a conscious push for 60fps as a standard. It just doesn't make sense. Lots of games don't need it and plenty of games wouldn't even benefit from it.
What's the scenario here, anyway? PlayStation mandates 60 FPS on all games? How fast do you think a developer is just going to jump to the other console with exclusivity rights and the freedom to develop their game how they choose?
There will ALWAYS be 30 FPS games. Sorry.
The phrase 'it's 2018 why aren't all games 60 FPS' comes to mind.
It doesn't make sense though. Plenty of games were 60 FPS on console in 2008 and even 1998. If you're seeing a lot of 60 FPS games this gen and wonder why they can't all be, chances are you've been playing a lot of HD remasters. There will never Be a conscious push for 60fps as a standard. It just doesn't make sense. Lots of games don't need it and plenty of games wouldn't even benefit from it.
What's the scenario here, anyway? PlayStation mandates 60 FPS on all games? How fast do you think a developer is just going to jump to the other console with exclusivity rights and the freedom to develop their game how they choose?
There will ALWAYS be 30 FPS games. Sorry.
OP
OP
As I layed out in the OP I never desired a mandatory standard as there are always exceptions to the rule (i.e. I could see Quantic Dreams w/Detroit Become Human continue down the 30fps path as they make interactive experiences focusing on choices and photo realistic motion captured humans in contrast to nimble & direct character controls).
However, most games are inherently focused on busy gameplay as the foundation and framerate does make a Great impact in that case.
And due to many reasons outlined in the OP the stars are aligning like never before (hardware technology and business wise) for the industry to be able to make a cultural push (not standardization) towards higher framerates. For most games.
But we are facing a hardware plateau past this generational shift so the window of opportunity must be seized now or else wait many more years.
However, most games are inherently focused on busy gameplay as the foundation and framerate does make a Great impact in that case.
And due to many reasons outlined in the OP the stars are aligning like never before (hardware technology and business wise) for the industry to be able to make a cultural push (not standardization) towards higher framerates. For most games.
But we are facing a hardware plateau past this generational shift so the window of opportunity must be seized now or else wait many more years.
60fps and above has always looked like shit to me. I'm grateful that not every game does this.
They won't because it's not a deal breaker to enough console players. The people for whom it is a deal breaker are probably already on PC.
Guess what folks, the MASS majority of people are just fine with 30fps, me included. 60fps isn't going to be going yhrough some sort of "cultural transition". It will always be relegated to the few odd games. The rest will Target 30fps and higher fisual fidelity.
I for one would gladly take better graphics any day for 30fps cause 30fps is a perfectly acceptable and playable frame rate.
I for one would gladly take better graphics any day for 30fps cause 30fps is a perfectly acceptable and playable frame rate.
*Yawn* This tired thing again.
The vast majority of people aren't used to having a choice.
I hear what you're saying but ultimately to me, games are an artistic medium for developers to create their vision of an experience for the player to enjoy. If that vision is made better by 60fps, great. If that vision is made better by prioritizing other factors or pushing new tech (which, bear in mind, is not always graphics-related), great. Just as with any other artistic medium, the moment you "standardize" something, you constrain it.
60 vs. 30fps should be up to the developer to decide.
"We're going for this filmic look, so one thing that we knew immediately was films run at 24 fps. We're gonna run at 30 because 24 fps does not feel good to play. So there's one concession in terms of making it aesthetically pleasing, because it just has to feel good to play."
I still think devs will prioritize lighting and water effects and AI over fps. These things sell games more than buttery smoothness.
You guys need to decide what you want. 4k and 30 fps or 1440p and 60 fps.
I would kill for 1440p@60 everything
I would kill for 1440p@60 everything
We are already seeing the divide in options between 4k/30 and 1080/60. So hopefully we can have 4k/60 or 4k/30 as a norm so thise that still game in 1080 can get 60fps 100% of the time.
I think your example is not fair as the game has not yet released and we don't know for sure.
I think your example is not fair as the game has not yet released and we don't know for sure.
You can't honestly think most gamers care about the framerate, do you?
