Joseph Gordon-Levitt is serious about HitRecords work on Beyond Good and Evil 2.

SPRidley · Jun 17, 2018

As an artist, this seems to be more of a "im making fanart/music because I want to and that is a good way to get exposure, that fanart/music could be used in a game and me be paid, so thats cool, and at the same time I can still do with this fanart/music whatever I please"
The last part is the most important part, 99% of spec work that comes from official contests doesnt let you do that.

Like you making something in tumblr, deviantart, your blog, or portfolio because you want, but you give some exposure to it.

THOUGH I think that work could have been done by freelancer artists paid directly by ubisoft if they really needed to decorate the cities and fill the radios. Im sure they are doing it this way because its much cheaper, dont delude ourselves they are only doing this give exposure to artists, it goes both ways.

SmarmySmurf · Jun 17, 2018

Firestorm said:
How is it disingenuous?

No one on the side of HR is anti-artist or against artists getting paid just because they disagree that this is spec work or that this is unethical. Its a complete strawman, and bad faith argument. Half of the people saying this entire controversy is hysteria or outrage culture are themselves artists.

Sailent · Jun 17, 2018

"Since we launched as a production company in 2010, we've paid our community $2,776,728.50"

That's $347,091 a year. Which is $28924.25 a month.

How many artists do they pick or choose a month?

EDIT: I'm not good at maths or economics.

Deleted member 25108 · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox · Jun 17, 2018

SPRidley said:
THOUGH I think that work could have been done by freelancer artists paid directly by ubisoft if they really needed to decorate the cities and fill the radios. Im sure they are doing it this way because its much cheaper, dont delude ourselves they are only doing this give exposure to artists, it goes both ways.

99.9% of the music and artwork in the game is being done by Ubisoft.

I'm certain they're going to drop this programme anyway, so let's just talk openly about it. There are 25 unique levels/areas in the game, and they wanted 1 fan-made poster and 1 fan-made song for each one, to add on-top of what they're already doing, as a sort of easter egg for fans. An idea was to make it an in-game trophy if you find them all, but that was just a community suggestion, unsure it was agreed upon. So of a game that will likely have thousands upon thousands of incidental posters and music tracks, they were looking to include around 50 fanmade ones.

That is hardly "doing it this way because its much cheaper", especially when there will be a Ubisoft designer or musician remaking all the submissions so it fits the style of the game, made-up languages and scripts, etc.

I understand people in the gaming industry get upset about spec work, but what you've done here is just been spoilsports, because this wasn't aimed at professional gamemakers to begin with. Bravo!

Dizagaox · Jun 17, 2018

Radnom said:
Would another system work where fans submit their portfolios and 10 of those fans get a one off paid contract for $5000 each for their work? You miss out on the collaboration aspect but at least fans get to know they'll be paid fairly for their work and have a chance of getting their work in a major title, and Ubisoft can still curate.

I think that goes outside the scope and purpose of the programme. If you're the type of even have a portfolio, they'd probably rather you applied to one of ~200 art job openings they have going, including this game.

Deleted member 19218 · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox said:
99.9% of the music and artwork in the game is being done by Ubisoft.

I'm certain they're going to drop this programme anyway, so let's just talk openly about it. There are 25 unique levels/areas in the game, and they wanted 1 fan-made poster and 1 fan-made song for each one, to add on-top of what they're already doing, as a sort of easter egg for fans. An idea was to make it an in-game trophy if you find them all, but that was just a community suggestion, unsure it was agreed upon. So of a game that will likely have thousands upon thousands of incidental posters and music tracks, they were looking to include around 50 fanmade ones.

That is hardly "doing it this way because its much cheaper", especially when there will be a Ubisoft designer or musician remaking all the submissions so it fits the style of the game, made-up languages and scripts, etc.

I understand people in the gaming industry get upset about spec work, but what you've done here is just been spoilsports, because this wasn't aimed at professional gamemakers to begin with. Bravo!

100%

This is for fans. People who love to make fan art, someone who wants to spend an afternoon creating a fun drawing to submit but isn't a professional.

This isn't about getting someone to slave away at their desk and create a 100 pieces of artwork. If someone is that serious about art then maybe there are more efficient ways for them to get a job making art for media.

The payment is pretty much a bonus, this shouldn't be viewed as work.

Kyuuji · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox said:
I think that goes outside the scope and purpose of the programme. If you're the type of even have a portfolio, they'd probably rather you applied to one of ~200 art job openings they have going, including this game.

They specified that they didn't want poor or low quality submissions. I would have thought anyone with competent expertise in the areas would surely have enough prior work to bundle up and show.

Aselith · Jun 17, 2018

I don't think Hit Record should be seen as a job. It's more of a way to practice in a focused way and maybe you get some money out of it.

Dizagaox · Jun 17, 2018

Kyuuji said:
They specified that they didn't want poor or low quality submissions. I would have thought anyone with competent expertise in the areas would surely have enough prior work to bundle up and show.

No poor or low quality submissions ≠ professional work

You need to have some sort of skill. I'm personally probably the perfect example of who they're after - I'm neither a professional (or semi-professional) poster designer but I can work the fuck out of Illustrator, InDesign and PhotoShop, and can put together professional looking posters, and I wanted to do one that celebrated Hinduism (for the level they're currently doing this programme for) as a bit of fun on the side of my day job (media consultant and video producer).

Kyuuji · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox said:
I can work the fuck out of Illustrator, InDesign and PhotoShop, and can put together professional looking posters, and I wanted to do one that celebrated Hinduism (for the level they're currently doing this programme for) as a bit of fun on the side of my day job (media consultant and video producer).

So you don't have a few pieces that you've created that you could present as work you've done?

Which is what I was saying. I didn't mention anything about professional work .

Dizagaox · Jun 17, 2018

Kyuuji said:
So you don't have a few pieces that you've created that you could present as work you've done?

Which is what I was saying. I didn't mention anything about professional work .

I'm not applying for a job, so what do they care about my past experience?

Kyuuji · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox said:
I'm not applying for a job, so what do they care about my past experience?

What were you responding to then?

Radnom said:
Would another system work where fans submit their portfolios and 10 of those fans get a one off paid contract for $5000 each for their work?

Dizagaox said:
If you're the type of even have a portfolio, they'd probably rather you applied to one of ~200 art job openings they have going, including this game.

Kyuuji said:
They specified that they didn't want poor or low quality submissions. I would have thought anyone with competent expertise in the areas would surely have enough prior work to bundle up and show.

The entire premise that you responded was someone saying they could request a portfolio and then select artists to produce work from them.

You say that they're not looking for people that would have portfolios
They're looking for certain level of competency
This would suggest people who are competent, which would likely have examples of other work they've done
Portfolios are just selected prior works
You say you're the ideal target for this
You could assemble prior work on request

I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. They're looking for a certain level of skill. People with that will almost certainly have other work. Therefore they could request examples of prior work and select from that.

Luchashaq · Jun 17, 2018

Based on this thread I'm assuming that hitrecord is also paying people for PR work and astroturfing?

Armadilo · Jun 17, 2018

People should have looked up what hit record is but never did that

Aselith · Jun 17, 2018

Luchashaq said:
Based on this thread I'm assuming that hitrecord is also paying people for PR work and astroturfing?

no, it's being done for exposure!

Dizagaox · Jun 17, 2018

Kyuuji said:
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say. They looking for a certain level of skill. People with that will almost certainly have other work. Therefore they could request examples of prior work and select from that.

Yes, but the programme isn't looking for artists to come and join Ubisoft. It's looking for a piece of fan art and music to put into each level. They're looking for stuff that's of passable quality - and better than your typical MS Paint art.

Yes, if you have a portfolio, great. Apply for a job at Ubisoft. Don't take an opportunity away from the rest of us by submitting to this.

NHarmonic. · Jun 17, 2018

SPRidley said:
As an artist, this seems to be more of a "im making fanart/music because I want to and that is a good way to get exposure, that fanart/music could be used in a game and me be paid, so thats cool, and at the same time I can still do with this fanart/music whatever I please"
The last part is the most important part, 99% of spec work that comes from official contests doesnt let you do that.

Like you making something in tumblr, deviantart, your blog, or portfolio because you want, but you give some exposure to it.

THOUGH I think that work could have been done by freelancer artists paid directly by ubisoft if they really needed to decorate the cities and fill the radios. Im sure they are doing it this way because its much cheaper, dont delude ourselves they are only doing this give exposure to artists, it goes both ways.

That last paragraph is especially spot on. It is probably a lot more cheaper.

Kyuuji · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox said:
Yes, but the programme isn't looking for artists to come and join Ubisoft. It's looking for a piece of fan art and music to put into each level. They're looking for stuff that's of passable quality - and better than your typical MS Paint art.

Yes, if you have a portfolio, great. Apply for a job at Ubisoft. Don't take an opportunity away from the rest of us by submitting to this.

You genuinely don't understand what I, and the other person you responded to, are trying to say.

There is a minimum level of quality in order for your work to be selected
People that meet that will certainly have completed other work (meaning artwork, illustrations and the like - not paid work)
A portfolio is that prior work
They could select the people they want based on that prior work instead of expecting the hours spent to be frontloaded

You literally confirmed a post ago that you have prior work, so how you think the above would take anything away from you is beyond me.

tulpa · Jun 17, 2018

i don't know, but I was actually excited about the idea of writing some music for this when I saw it revealed on stage. i'm a huge fan of BG&E and I would love to try and make some music that would go along with that unique world. it wasn't even the payment thing or spec work thing that killed it for me in the end. it was the idea of everything having to be sort of collaborative remixes. you should give people an option to do that if they want, but I'd actually like to write a piece of music for the game and see it in the finished product somewhere if it's good enough to filter through. i don't want to see some shitty EDM remix of whatever i've done end up in the final product. sorry. artists can be pretty finicky about the idea of strangers mangling their carefully crafted work.

smash_robot · Jun 17, 2018

So what are the main differences between this and something like shutterstock?

Dizagaox · Jun 17, 2018

Kyuuji said:
You genuinely don't understand what I, and the other person you responded to, are trying to say.

There is a minimum level of quality in order for your work to be selected

People that meet that will certainly have completed other work (meaning artwork, illustrations and the like - not paid work)

A portfolio is that prior work

They could select the people they want based on that prior work instead of expecting the hours spent to be frontloaded

You literally confirmed a post ago that you have prior work, so how you think the above would take anything away from you is beyond me.

Yes but that's not what the programme is for.

They're not looking for individual artists to commission to do background posters and music. They're looking for fans to submit high quality work FOR FUN.

It's not any different to National Geographic's reader submissions. Yes, sure, you can be a professional photographer. But you don't need to be. A high quality photo taken on an iPhone works as well.

Kyuuji · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox said:
Yes but that's not what the programme is for.

They're not looking for individual artists to commission to do background posters and music. They're looking for fans to submit high quality work FOR FUN.

It's not any different to National Geographic's reader submissions. Yes, sure, you can be a professional photographer. But you don't need to be. A high quality photo taken on an iPhone works as well.

Are you actively trying to mistake what I'm saying?

Nothing in my last post required you to be a professional, I specified that and even made a point of saying how you could be included when you say you're not a professional.

So why do you keep harping on about professionals?

I'm finding it hard to break it down in more simple terms than:

There is a minimum level of quality in order for your work to be selected
People that meet that will certainly have completed other work (meaning artwork, illustrations and the like - not paid work)
A portfolio is that prior work
They could select the people they want based on that prior work instead of expecting the hours spent to be frontloaded

None of which you actually respond to or has anything to do with being a professional.

Dizagaox · Jun 17, 2018

smash_robot said:
So what are the main differences between this and something like shutterstock?

This is an isolated competition-like programme for fans of the game, whatever level of skill they have, to have in total around 50 bits of fan art and music in the game. Chosen submissions will get paid, but it's not a replacement for anything Ubisoft is doing.

National Geographic is definitely the best example - their editors often put out a reader request for photos based on a particular theme. They can be amateur or professional. Doesn't matter. Editors and other readers then pick a handful of them to feature in an upcoming magazine (although unlike National Geographic, here the chosen submissions get paid).

It's not the same as Shutterstock, where submissions are professional and for $$$. This is for fun.

Dizagaox · Jun 17, 2018

Kyuuji said:
Are you actively trying to mistake what I'm saying?

Nothing in my last post required you to be a professional, I specified that and even made a point of saying how you could be included when you say you're not a professional.

So why do you keep harping on about professionals?

I'm finding it hard to break it down in more simple terms than:

There is a minimum level of quality in order for your work to be selected

People that meet that will certainly have completed other work (meaning artwork, illustrations and the like - not paid work)

A portfolio is that prior work

They could select the people they want based on that prior work instead of expecting the hours spent to be frontloaded

None of which you actually respond to or has anything to do with being a professional.

You are being the thick shit here mate.

You are asking why doesn't Ubisoft ask for portfolios and commission work, which is a professional practice.

I've told you they're not looking for individual artists or professionals.

So stop harping on about portfolios.

ZeoVGM · Jun 17, 2018

This whole thing was blown out of proportion.

It's a fun collaboration and I'm excited to see what it results in.

Kyuuji · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox said:
You are asking why doesn't Ubisoft ask for portfolios and commission work, which is a professional practice.

Except I've equated that numerous times to just mean 'prior work' of which anyone with the level of skill they're looking for should be able to provide. Regardless of whether they're a professional or not. You would be able to show examples of work you'd done, despite not being a professional. It would mean not asking people to front-load the work while ensuring you're not 'paying for trash' as they say they're trying to avoid.

Dizagaox said:
You are being the thick shit here mate.

I mean you seem to continually think that being able to show examples of prior artwork is something only professionals can do, and as a result missed the point in what I was saying.

So:

They don't want to pay for 'trash'
There is a minimum level of quality

A way to get past that would be to just ask for a couple of examples of existing artwork.

This makes sure they don't pay for trash
Artists also don't have to spend hours for no outcome

They then choose the work in the quality/style that they feel fits. Artists do the work. Artists get paid.

Mailbox · Jun 17, 2018

This is very obviously meant for amateur artists, fan artists, or professionals with some free time on there hands. This is obviously not meant for professionals to make a living on.

What i wonder is, how many of you "this is spec work"-ers would say nothing or downright praise this initiative if no money was involved period.
Many companies have had contests where people can submit artwork and a select few get to be in it, this isn't a new concept. The difference is, no one gets compensated.

for example:
Little big planet has a fan contest prior to the game's launch were people would send in sackboy designs and the winners would get their designs made in the form of free DLC.
No one saw a penny, no one got "paid for their work", and yet everyone was happy. People loved the costumes, and the people who made them knew what they were getting into.

Effectively, the only difference between this and that, is monetary. If Media Molecule instead made those DLCs paid and gave the winners a cut or all the profits of it, or even just straight up paid the winners, would that be "spec work"?

Seriously, this reads as much more like a collaborative competition than it is Ubi contracting someone and only paying them for content used rather than produced.
The difference is in scope and in expectation. No one even has to enter this thing period. Where as with spec work, you are contracted or are made to create works

This is by and large, a contest, regardless of what PR nonsense H.R. says.

Faithless · Jun 17, 2018

BreezyLimbo said:
"Speculative Work"

basically work for exposure, that is you turn in work to a company in hopes of being chosen, with no pay involved and you lose ownership of your work. This seems to be a bit different, in that you keep ownership of the work?

Thanks, I understand much better discussions and debates on this subject now.

Deleted member 2620 · Jun 17, 2018

Hoot said:
Anyway, here's a whole thread by Scott Benson (NITW dev) I would also recommend reading through. Click on it to deploy

This is a good Twitter thread.

SPRidley · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox said:
99.9% of the music and artwork in the game is being done by Ubisoft.

I'm certain they're going to drop this programme anyway, so let's just talk openly about it. There are 25 unique levels/areas in the game, and they wanted 1 fan-made poster and 1 fan-made song for each one, to add on-top of what they're already doing, as a sort of easter egg for fans. An idea was to make it an in-game trophy if you find them all, but that was just a community suggestion, unsure it was agreed upon. So of a game that will likely have thousands upon thousands of incidental posters and music tracks, they were looking to include around 50 fanmade ones.

That is hardly "doing it this way because its much cheaper", especially when there will be a Ubisoft designer or musician remaking all the submissions so it fits the style of the game, made-up languages and scripts, etc.

I understand people in the gaming industry get upset about spec work, but what you've done here is just been spoilsports, because this wasn't aimed at professional gamemakers to begin with. Bravo!

Hey im not totally opposed to the idea they are doing. I think its much better than people only screaming SPEC WORK! think.

xinoart · Jun 17, 2018

Firestorm said:
If you don't understand the outrage it's because you're not in a creative field that's often exploited by companies in this way. The correct way for Ubisoft to do this would have been to reach out to artists in the community they like and commission them for work. Not run a fuckin' contest and say everyone should submit and whoever wins will get a piece of $50,000.

I've worked in many creative fields before. I think this argument is stupid. It's not spec work to me nor to most people on planet Earth.

whatsinaname · Jun 17, 2018

I am still not sure why this feels skeevy to me. Maybe I am prejudiced because of Ubisoft? Or cynicism of it being a slippery slope?

A contest where the top three get their artwork into the game doesn't sound bad.

If people on HitRecord collaborated, set a price and profit share ratios (which is their standard business model) and Ubisoft bought some of those pieces, that doesn't sound bad.

But Ubisoft setting aside a budget and asking for submissions and accepting what they like feels wrong.

At the moment, HitRecord could be like Google's planned implementation of car sharing/other carpool apps or it could end up like Uber. The basic idea of HitRecord sounds great but once Ubisoft enters, it feels like like it would head towards a commercial replacement of traditional payment methods that considers a lot of things other than the final product?

Fruit&Nut · Jun 17, 2018

Seems like the uberization of art.

Instead of hiring multiple artists for a good salary to find what you want, just make a bunch of desperate people do it, and throw them peanuts.

Beef Supreme · Jun 17, 2018

I really don't see the outrage here. You either want to participate or you don't. If they like your work, you get paid and you keep the rights. What's the problem in that? It's not any more exploitative than an actor/actress reading for a part in a movie. You either get the part of get sent home. But if you are picked, you gain fame for it. It's the chance you take and you the choice to take that chance.

Volterra · Jun 17, 2018

xinoart said:
I've worked in many creative fields before. I think this argument is stupid. It's not spec work to me nor to most people on planet Earth.

It is literally the definition of spec work:

"Spec work is any kind of creative work, either partial or completed, submitted by designers to prospective clients before designers secure both their work and equitable fees."

You may be fine with spec work in general, or limited forms of it, such as Ubisoft is engaging in. That doesn't magically make it not spec work.

Beef Supreme said:
I really don't see the outrage here. You either want to participate or you don't. If they like your work, you get paid and you keep the rights. What's the problem in that? It's not any more exploitative than an actor/actress reading for a part in a movie. You either get the part of get sent home. But if you are picked, you gain fame for it. It's the chance you take and you the choice to take that chance.

A film does not use an actor or actress's initial audition as part of the final commercial product. Here, the submission is both the "audition" and part of the final product, so they are not similar. The artist's analog of an audition is a portfolio of previous work.

Actors and actresses who are cast in a film also receive compensation for their time regardless of whether they appear in the final product. This is not the case here, where the hope is that many artists will produce work for Ubisoft to choose from without those artists receiving any compensation whatsoever.

Zero-ELEC · Jun 17, 2018

Fruit&Nut said:
Seems like the uberization of art.

Instead of hiring multiple artists for a good salary to find what you want, just make a bunch of desperate people do it, and throw them peanuts.

The nice term for that is "gig economy". And yes spec work is exactly that.

dex3108 · Jun 17, 2018

Fruit&Nut said:
Seems like the uberization of art.

Instead of hiring multiple artists for a good salary to find what you want, just make a bunch of desperate people do it, and throw them peanuts.

They are already paying tons of artist who are working at 4 studios that are currently working on game. On top of that they are hiring tons of people. This is for fans and community that likes this game and has some talents and wants to be part of the game.

Dizagaox · Jun 17, 2018

Fruit&Nut said:
Seems like the uberization of art.

Instead of hiring multiple artists for a good salary to find what you want, just make a bunch of desperate people do it, and throw them peanuts.

It's not uberization of anything. They're hiring designers and artists for 99.9% of the game. This programme is letting fans contribute 0.1% and get paid for it too. It isn't a replacement for anything.

Your insinuation any of us submitting to this game must be desperate is absolutely shitty. Desperate for what? To work in games? Nah, I'm alright mate, and I think most of the people submitting things are fine too. If any of us wanted to work on the game in an official capacity, we would have applied to already.

xinoart · Jun 17, 2018

Volterra said:
It is literally the definition of spec work:

"Spec work is any kind of creative work, either partial or completed, submitted by designers to prospective clients before designers secure both their work and equitable fees."

You may be fine with spec work in general, or limited forms of it, such as Ubisoft is engaging in. That doesn't magically make it not spec work.

So in your mind Deviantart.com is all spec work correct? How about CGsociety.com?

Just because a term can be used for both contests and spec work doesn't mean it is both, no matter how many times you claim it is. It just isn't by most people's standards. Your opinion is in the minority.

Deleted member 5596 · Jun 17, 2018

Dizagaox said:
Yes but that's not what the programme is for.

They're not looking for individual artists to commission to do background posters and music. They're looking for fans to submit high quality work FOR FUN.

It's not any different to National Geographic's reader submissions. Yes, sure, you can be a professional photographer. But you don't need to be. A high quality photo taken on an iPhone works as well.

If Ubi wants people to submit high quality work for FUN, sure they don't need to contract a production company that makes money of people doing things FOR FUN.

Cels · Jun 17, 2018

mutantmagnet said:
Resetera ability to attract new members from Google is abysmal (last I read it was 5% of traffic referrals). It is way more likely he was a former gaf member based on current web tracking data.

i doubt he was a GAF or resetera member before his company's collaboration with ubisoft. he says he didn't know what E3 was.

If you don't know what E3 is (I'll admit, I didn't), it's a huge annual video game conference.

xinoart · Jun 17, 2018

Relaxed Muscle said:
If Ubi wants people to submit high quality work for FUN, sure they don't need to contract a production company that makes money of people doing things FOR FUN.

Another disingenuous post. HitRecord is basically just doing the work of selecting the candidates. It isn't hiring them, it's consolidating the input for Ubisoft to look over when they have time. HitRecord literally is already set up for this, Ubisoft are not. It's not hard to comprehend why they got a third party involved.

Deleted member 5596 · Jun 17, 2018

xinoart said:
Another disingenuous post. HitRecord is basically just doing the work of selecting the candidates. It isn't hiring them, it's consolidating the input for Ubisoft to look over when they have time. HitRecord literally is already set up for this, Ubisoft are not. It's not hard to comprehend why they got a third party involved.

Why selecting candidates would need a full production pipeline, like...a production company?

It dosn't say "selecting candidates company" it says "production company". They produce work for clients.

xinoart · Jun 17, 2018

Because they already do it. It alleviates Ubisoft from either hiring or moving people to new positions created just to select candidates. Is that hard to understand?

Not to mention HitRecord has a great track record. You're starting to move goalposts just to suit your internet rage/argument.

Volterra · Jun 17, 2018

xinoart said:
So in your mind Deviantart.com is all spec work correct? How about CGsociety.com?

Just because a term can be used for both contests and spec work doesn't mean it is both, no matter how many times you claim it is. It just isn't by most people's standards. Your opinion is in the minority.

Likewise, an unsupported claim about an opinion being in the minority is not a compelling argument, no matter how often you repeat it. Even a majority opinion can be incorrect, particularly if the majority is uninformed.

Gallery sites are probably not spec work. These sites are not offering compensation for including work in a commercial product.

Deleted member 5596 · Jun 17, 2018

xinoart said:
Because they already do it. It alleviates Ubisoft from either hiring or moving people to new positions created just to select candidates. Is that hard to understand?

Not to mention HitRecord has a great track record. You're starting to move goalposts just to suit your internet rage/argument.

Wouldn't just be like other "fan art contest" in the past? Like just sending them the art and they can choose a "winner".

Why a "fan art" needs a concept - dev phase - final phase usual production process? Why it does needs organizative work, between multiple workers? Why does it need producers and editors? Guidelines? Why does it need to be for a "client"? At that point isn't just work rather than "fan art"?

It has a great track record...of producing things for clients. Because that's what they are they aren't proud of selecting candidates, they are proud of using passionate/desperate people work to get 50% of the benefits by basically just sitting on their offices.

riverfr0zen · Jun 17, 2018

Amiablepercy said:
The uptick and positivity after JGLs response is really very heartening. People still really don't understand the reality of having to make a living in the beginning of your career off spec work so naysayers will persist. I respect fellow artists/creatives who have a hot take on the practice because they've lived it, they've hustled within the specific system, and they have grounds and insights to give a first account. It's when people who haven't done it feel the need to insert themselves into the conversation I roll my eyes.

When you are ill ininformed and piling on in a situation like this it isn't equivalent to fighting for oversight and protection of long shoreman or teachers or something like that. This is the shady victimization of artists to forward your already deep seeded anti- corporate agenda. When things are completely voluntary and as transparent as Hit record is being I think artists posses enough onus to defend themselves, examine the risk/reward proposition and make their own decisions. The white knighting going on from so many theoretical angles (it's very easy to recognize) is so reductive. The rabble roused against JGL was dismaying to say the least. It certainly wasn't completely principaled. I hope more and more people allow this project to play out. The first sign something isn't on the up and up based on JGLs word I will be the first to call them out but for now I think it is a very cool community project as it was always billed.

This was extremely well put.

Nacho said:
This does assuage my fears a bit with this. It always felt like it was coming from a genuine place but the deal felt...off.
...
Who is deciding what iterations of what collaborations get in? You can bust your fucking ass off and someone can ',remix' your work and completely remove your contribution and that can wind up getting picked and you wind up fucked. I don't see a scenario where everyone walks away completely satisfied with this process. Especially anyone contributing who's a professinal artist. And let's be honest, Ubisoft wants professional artists, they said this explicitly on stage. They said "there will be other ways amatuers can contribute too!". That sentiment was definitely the one that lit my Spidey senses the most.

Key part of JGL's response that didn't make the OP and that people still seem misinformed about in this thread:

SO, IS IT SPEC?

I understand the comparison. But I do think we're substantially different. As mentioned, Ubisoft isn't doing this to cut costs; they're doing it to include fans. We don't pit artists against each other in contests with one winner; everyone is allowed and encouraged to build off of one another. We don't plagiarize unused submissions; anybody whose work is included or even influences the final product gets credit and compensation. We're not a marketplace for freelance gigs; we're a collaborative community.

Kyuuji · Jun 17, 2018

I'm not seeing why people would be against having artists submit examples of existing artwork/creations and they select people to work with (and get paid) from that. It allows them to have their quality bar met (no 'trash') while meaning hundreds of people aren't doing work for no outcome or result.

It moves the bar closer to the center and satisfies both sides concerns.

Nacho · Jun 17, 2018

riverfr0zen said:
This was extremely well put.

Key part of JGL's response that didn't make the OP and that people still seem misinformed about in this thread:

Yeah but if your work isn't used you aren't paid. So I was just wondering who's deciding what final piece gets in. Idk there's a lot of specifics that need to be fleshed out and those are the key pieces in deciding how skeevy or not it feels. I'm at least.

Joseph Gordon-Levitt is serious about HitRecords work on Beyond Good and Evil 2.

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