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IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,952
They're not, if you look at the PS4 Trophy stats less than 30-40% of people who played those games play 5 matches (there is a trophy for playing 5 Uncharted 4 matches and less than a 1/3 of the people who play UC4 have it)
MP isn't why most buy Uncharted for, unlike Halo and even if it was, 30-40% of whatever Uncharted 4's total player count is at now, is still many millions of players.

Where are you getting 16 million from? TLOU2 reveal from 2016 has 8 million on the PS official Youtube channel and latest reveal has 6.5 million, one of these videos is over 17 month old
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlGhXNLN7G8&t=8s just under7.5m views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Wnvvj33Wo&t=3s over 8m views.
If you add all the others, it's probably close to 30m views, if not over it. In 17 months Halo Infinite trailer won't be close to that.

Until TLOU has merchandise, multi million dollar tournaments, a massive player count and such, it's not even on the same planet as Halo is in terms of popularity and never will be either.
It has all but multi million dollar tournaments, as ND/Sony don't seem to really care about making their games E-Sports.
 

batosaims

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
125
This means that Halo 3 is still the probable leader in lifetime sales, although it's bound to be overtaken in only a matter of time if the numbers keep up."

Halo 3 came out in 2007...5 years before Halo 4 did...of course it's going to be the leader

I'll give you one last chance to provide a credible argument
 

Doom_Bringer

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
3,181
I'm pretty pleased with the combined 7.3 million combined views of the Spider-Man showcase and demo footage, not even including all the crazy views on some of the off-screen stuff
The game looks really awesome. Some of the battles had slowdown. I am guessing this will be fixed later? I saw the slowdown kicked in when there were a lot of object being thrown around.
 

jayu26

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,587
I don't think anyone here would deny that Halo's popularity has seen a significant downward slope. It's far from the franchise it was at it's peak.

TLOU has yet to reach it's peak, it's far from it. The first game is already regarded as one of the games that defined the last generation and i'm curious whether they will surpass those milestones in the future.
Looking at the last page, I don't think everyone agrees.
 
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v_iHuGi

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,155
Halo 3 came out in 2007...5 years before Halo 4 did...of course it's going to be the leader

I'll give you one last chance to provide a credible argument

https://www.google.pt/amp/s/wccftech.com/halo-5-sold-5-million-copies-within-3-months/amp/

https://www.polygon.com/2018/6/14/17465488/the-last-of-us-sales-17-million-ps3-ps4

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/uncharted-4-sells-87-million-copies/1100-6446650/

https://www.destructoid.com/god-of-...sells-more-than-5-million-copies-504699.phtml

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2018-02-28-horizon-zero-dawn-shifts-a-whopping-7-6m-copies

Not only Last of Us is twice as big as Halo or 3x, all the other Sony big ips are bigger aswell now.

Halo 3 (Biggest Halo) 2007 - 12M
Last of Us 2013 - 17M

And don't say Halo 3 wasn't bundled Lmao
 

batosaims

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
125
MP isn't why most buy Uncharted for, unlike Halo and even if it was, 30-40% of whatever Uncharted 4's total player count is at now, is still many millions of players.

No you don't get it...it's 30% of the people who've actually earned the trophy not 30% of people playing the game...someone could of bought the game in 2016 the first week it came out, played a few matches, never touched it again and would be counted into that statistic

You're the one who said it's popular, you were wrong about that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlGhXNLN7G8&t=8s just under7.5m views
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W2Wnvvj33Wo&t=3s over 8m views.
If you add all the others, it's probably close to 30m views, if not over it. In 17 months Halo Infinite trailer won't be close to that.

One of those videos is a year and a half old

You're arguing right now that Last of Us 2 has more interest in it right now, I'm not arguing against that. The argument is what is the more popular franchise, in which it's Halo and not even close. There are people who even like Halo Lore, books, comics etc that don't even care about the games. That's popularity beyond the games that TLOU and pretty much any Sony franchise lacks.

It has all but multi million dollar tournaments, as ND/Sony don't seem to really care about making their games E-Sports.

No it doesn't...Last of Us had a short lived comic book from 2013..meanwhile Halo Escalation alone... 1 comic series out of several Halo comic series had 24 issues

ND/Sony don't care because they can't, no one cares about the MP of those games. They had no issue putting microtransactions in those multiplayer components so they wouldn't object against additional revenue streams from E sports if they were viable, they're not because no one cares about those games from a MP standpoint

They actually tried to have a tournament for Uncharted 4 in Canada and it was such a colossal bust that they never did it again.
 
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LifeLine

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,779
OP should note which videos were being run as ads.


Can we just get a dedicated is TLoU/GoW/Uncharted bigger than Halo thread?
 

batosaims

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Apr 16, 2018
125
User banned (3 days): Derailing thread, console wars

Halo 3 sold 14.5 million copies, it was bundled but it also didn't have 3 different versions like TLOU did...17 million is actually quite low

Concession accepted, I gave you multiple chances to provide a credible argument and you blew it.
 

Elios83

Member
Oct 28, 2017
976
It's not surprising that Sony's games are dominating the views on Youtube. They were pretty much the best stuff showcased during this E3.
 

v_iHuGi

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,155
Halo 3 sold 14.5 million copies, it was bundled but it also didn't have 3 different versions like TLOU did...17 million is actually quite low

Concession accepted, I gave you multiple chances to provide a credible argument and you blew it.

Halo 3 already stopped selling years ago, Last of Us will keep selling for years to come, see the difference?

When Last of us has the same years on the market it'll be at >20M.

Concession accepted indeed.

But you're living in the past, God of War did in a month what Halo 5 did in 3, the facts are there.
 

Deleted member 135

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,682
Halo is a relic of a bygone era. Its lost its relevance, it's not a pillar of gaming anymore will never be again.

Frankly it should have ended with Reach. Moving to a new developer presents a Ship of Theseus problem, its like if Sony had a random studio keep making Nathan Drake Uncharted games.
 

v_iHuGi

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
5,155
Halo is a relic of a bygone era. Its lost its relevance, it's not a pillar of gaming anymore will never be again.

Yeah, things come and go, Halo ran it's course, it'll keep a small and engaged fanbase but it's a small/medium franchise these days, can't compare to the juggernauts out there like R6, GTA, CoD, Fortnite, Mario, Zelda, God of War, Fortnite, Pubg, Last of Us, Uncharted etc.
 

IIFloodyII

Member
Oct 26, 2017
23,952
No you don't get it...it's 30% of the people who've actually earned the trophy not 30% of people playing the game...someone could of bought the game in 2016 the first week it came out, played a few matches, never touched it again and would be counted into that statistic

You're the one who said it's popular, you were wrong about that.
It's 30% of people whoever put Uncharted 4 on their PS4, which make the 30-40% more impressive considering the very vast majority of players bought and played the game for it's SP, not the MP and it is very popular, unless you think literally millions of players isn't popular and a still very active playerbase.

One of those videos is a year and a half old

You're arguing right now that Last of Us 2 has more interest in it right now, I'm not arguing against that. The argument is what is the more popular franchise, in which it's Halo and not even close.
It's the reveal, you tried to say because Halo was just a reveal it's not a fair comparison, so I told you what the bar for the reveal is, which Halo very likely won't come close to (very few games will). You can I dunno, compared the less than a week old trailers where one has almost twice as many views off the other, but it's a unfair comparison for some reason.

No it doesn't...Last of Us had a short lived comic book from 2013..meanwhile Halo Escalation alone... 1 comic series out of several Halo comic series had 24
You think merch ends with comics? There's a lot of TLoU merch. Halo has been getting milked for 15 years too, TLoU has not, so yeah, no shit there's more Halo stuff, there's also more Halo games too.

As a final point and as pointed out already, using your logic, Gran Turismo is still bigger than both, it 100% isn't, but past glory is making up for present failure. Same applies to Halo. TLoU has a much brighter future than both at the moment, apart from it's not E-Sport, because that's important for some reson.

Edit: Oh, well that was a waste of time. :(
 
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OP
OP
OG_Thrills

OG_Thrills

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,655
Yeah, things come and go, Halo ran it's course, it'll keep a small and engaged fanbase but it's a small/medium franchise these days, can't compare to the juggernauts out there like R6, GTA, CoD, Fortnite, Mario, Zelda, God of War, Fortnite, Pubg, Last of Us, Uncharted etc.

Reading through some of the comments it is quite weird to see certain people still assert that Halo is the Behemoth it was once when Halo 3 released. The industry has matured since. And while Halo 3 was iconic it's more of a relic. To me personally, even Gears characters feel like a relic of the 80's movie when viewed through a modern lens.

fenix.jpg


And so my individual hype for the game is nowhere near what it once was many years ago.

As IP both Halo and Gears have so much lore they can pull from. So many directions they can take the franchise but unfortunately those IP have been locked into the same format with diminishing returns with every release.
 

chris 1515

Member
Oct 27, 2017
7,074
Barcelona Spain
Halo 3 already stopped selling years ago, Last of Us will keep selling for years to come, see the difference?

When Last of us has the same years on the market it'll be at >20M.

Concession accepted indeed.

But you're living in the past, God of War did in a month what Halo 5 did in 3, the facts are there.

Number for Halo 5 are shipped. Number for God of War are sell through.
 

Dust

C H A O S
Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,160
Halo is still premiere Xbox franchise (although fire is fading) but Gears is straight up a relic of the past from gameplay to artstyle.
The franchise needed an either complete overhaul or straight up reimagining.

Just looking what people are discussing online, Gears is really lagging hard and this is supposed to be next mainline entry.
 

melodiousmowl

Member
Jan 14, 2018
3,774
CT
Halo 3 already stopped selling years ago, Last of Us will keep selling for years to come, see the difference?

When Last of us has the same years on the market it'll be at >20M.

Concession accepted indeed.

But you're living in the past, God of War did in a month what Halo 5 did in 3, the facts are there.

Keep in mind the potential sellable playerbase when making comparisons, it might be a better argument? Halo5 had the ability to sell too say w/e, 10million, and GoW 80mil - theres almost no way one could sell more than the other (unless it is somehow BoTW), but as a %, I bet the number is still way in favor of GoW but tells a better picture. (Also limiting it to sales in the same relative time frames)

Thats the thing about statistics - you can show anything you want, but I think if the data exists my proposition is a better indicator.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
I don't think YouTube views is a valid metric for future sales.
That said, regarding this Halo vs Sony ip wars, the only thing i think should be considered is that mismanaging your ips may lead to a serious loss of popularity.
Who would have said that gears would lose its appeal when it was the game that sold thousands of 360s. Same for Halo.
I am sure Sony has taken notes to keep them as relevant as possible
 

5Twist

Member
Oct 27, 2017
559
Keep in mind the potential sellable playerbase when making comparisons, it might be a better argument? Halo5 had the ability to sell too say w/e, 10million, and GoW 80mil - theres almost no way one could sell more than the other (unless it is somehow BoTW), but as a %, I bet the number is still way in favor of GoW but tells a better picture. (Also limiting it to sales in the same relative time frames)

Thats the thing about statistics - you can show anything you want, but I think if the data exists my proposition is a better indicator.
I see this argument a lot, but if we were to apply this logic to Halo 3, Reach, and 4, then Reach and Halo 4 flopped. Halo 3 has the highest LTD sales despite the fact that the 360 userbase was smaller than that during Reach and 4's launches.

If we were to graph out the relationship between userbase size and game sales, there would be an asymptote after a certain point.
 

tzare

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,145
Catalunya
Of course not.

But we're measuring post E3 interest for ip and while not scientific the views do appear to be indicative of gamers interest.
Sure. It somehow reminds me of Amazon top sellers. Hit and miss.
I guess while it gauges interest, it isn't the same to see a game unveiled for the first time, CP2077 for example, than seeing a trailer or a gameplay section for a game that we already knew about our a recurring ip like FIFA.
Interesting results however, i think that is more relevant the games with low numbers than the most viewed. That is a worrying sign of irrelevance
 

Dragoon

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
11,231
Halo is a relic of a bygone era. Its lost its relevance, it's not a pillar of gaming anymore will never be again.

Frankly it should have ended with Reach. Moving to a new developer presents a Ship of Theseus problem, its like if Sony had a random studio keep making Nathan Drake Uncharted games.
Umm.. it's very likely that's what that San Diego AAA studio that Sony has made probably is.. rebooting the Uncharted series. :P
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
Keep in mind the potential sellable playerbase when making comparisons, it might be a better argument? Halo5 had the ability to sell too say w/e, 10million, and GoW 80mil - theres almost no way one could sell more than the other (unless it is somehow BoTW), but as a %, I bet the number is still way in favor of GoW but tells a better picture. (Also limiting it to sales in the same relative time frames)

Thats the thing about statistics - you can show anything you want, but I think if the data exists my proposition is a better indicator.

Below is my view on the install base perspective.

There's many evidences that it is games that move systems - and less so the other way round.

Titanfall 1 sold almost as much as Halo 5 did in it's launch month according to NPD ( just XB1 sales alone). The install base difference between XB1 in March 2014 and Oct 2015 were staggering, yet the install base didn't benefit to push a much more popular IP vs a new IP.

The fact that Uncharted 4, GoW all grew expontentially compared to the previous major release in their franchise at launch, with a higher proportionate difference in install base. Sure, for GOW, current PS4 sales are higher than the PS3 equivalent - but that didn't stop GOW3 from being the best-selling PS exclusive ( NPD ) till recently, (UC3/TLOU/Horizon/UC4 were not able to detrone GOW3 ), and it took GOW to detrone GOW3 by a higher % average than the growth in install base.

Halo 3 and Gears 2 sales were stronger than Halo 5 and Gears 4 by a notably higher proportion of the install base disparity. If anything, Gears 4 was released to a market with higher install base than Gears 2.

And there's Switch sales for their first-party games, which has staggering attach rate.

Tldr; highly desirable 'system-sellers' will sell ridiculously well in spite of install base - because the games are the one that create the install base and not the other way round.
 

jroc74

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,992
Not surprising. I think Sony's games were better, but the key difference is Sony was actually showing gameplay. Not just teaser trailers, which is practically all Microsoft showed.

Yeah, even if the format was lackluster showing actual gameplay was nice. Someone tried to compare Death Stranding and Halo Infinite saying they both showed nothing. One showed actual gameplay tho....

I don't think YouTube views is a valid metric for future sales.
That said, regarding this Halo vs Sony ip wars, the only thing i think should be considered is that mismanaging your ips may lead to a serious loss of popularity.
Who would have said that gears would lose its appeal when it was the game that sold thousands of 360s. Same for Halo.
I am sure Sony has taken notes to keep them as relevant as possible

I agree. Perfect example, the new God of War. That before the game came out some ppl said it was gonna suck.

Of course not.

But we're measuring post E3 interest for ip and while not scientific the views do appear to be indicative of gamers interest.

This too.
 

More Butter

Banned
Jun 12, 2018
1,890
I'm more excited about Xbox games going forward than I am PlayStation but there is no doubt that PlayStation had better things to show this E3 gameplay wise for the first party. Xbox needs gameplay demos next year because that is way more exciting. Gears 5 being so low is a bit surprising to me because that was honestly one of the best showings of E3 for me. I think people may end up being surprised by that one. Halo was really just a tech demo but I am itching to see it running.

Also, it can't bode well for Crackdown 3 that they still won't show a demo. Hell the destruction demo they showed to Destin Legarie 3 years ago was exciting as hell and they should have shown that. They must have been in development hell.
 

Nightengale

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,708
Malaysia
I agree. Perfect example, the new God of War. That before the game came out some ppl said it was gonna suck.

God of War is one of the worst examples you can give in relation to games performance based off youtube metrics, because the youtube metrics for that game was phenomenal. Best performing E3 trailer of 2016, and top 5 in 2017.

RX1bJO3.jpg
 

Moose

Prophet of Truth - Hero of Bowerstone
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,163
The Gears 5 numbers are quite low, Gears seems very limited in its audience despite its diversity in characters. Gears 5 looks fantastic but I don't see that series ever reaching the popularity that was there with 2-3. I always thought it was strange that it got propped up with Halo and Forza instead of Fable, which seems like it would have a bigger potential audience.
 

Zok310

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,626
Halo is a relic of a bygone era. Its lost its relevance, it's not a pillar of gaming anymore will never be again.

Frankly it should have ended with Reach. Moving to a new developer presents a Ship of Theseus problem, its like if Sony had a random studio keep making Nathan Drake Uncharted games.

Yes, all that talent should be used towards a slew of new ips from MS, they would be better for it, makes me worry about their 1st party. By this time lat gen Sony was on Uncharted 3 and TLoU, both new ips introduced at the start and end of the gen.
 

Sosukae

Member
Oct 25, 2017
177
Halo is a relic of a bygone era. Its lost its relevance, it's not a pillar of gaming anymore will never be again.

Frankly it should have ended with Reach. Moving to a new developer presents a Ship of Theseus problem, its like if Sony had a random studio keep making Nathan Drake Uncharted games.

This analysis is a bit strange seeing how plenty of recent games that have been handled by another studio and not the original studio and they have been good.

And "relic of a bygone era" so wierd. Feel like you could say the same about wolfenstein or tomb raider.
 

Kage Maru

Member
Oct 27, 2017
3,804
Spider-Man, DMC5, Ori 2, and Gears 5 deserve more views. Each game had an awesome showing. Happy Cyberpunk is getting the attention it deserves. Though I don't understand why the hell the Elders Scrolls 6 is getting such high numbers, they didn't show a damn thing.
 

Apex88

Member
Jan 15, 2018
1,428
Spider-Man, DMC5, Ori 2, and Gears 5 deserve more views. Each game had an awesome showing. Happy Cyberpunk is getting the attention it deserves. Though I don't understand why the hell the Elders Scrolls 6 is getting such high numbers, they didn't show a damn thing.
Spider-Man has had multiple showings. I believe it's reveal trailer is over 20m. I personally think it will duke it out with TLoU2 as Sony's biggest exclusive this gen.

Overall, the trailer views demonstrate how important it is to get your videos trending. These views dwarf what the actual conferences get.