Teacher was "forced" to resign for using a trans student's last name instead of preferred one.

Darkmaigle · Jun 9, 2018

Any mention of the teachers union? Seems like its pretty hard to lose a teaching gig.

Anyways, pretty weird hill to die on. It's a school rule, follow it and lobby to change it if your true intent is free speech.

Geirskogul · Jun 9, 2018

MeaningOfKarma said:
I feel like using a transgendered person's last name is as close as you're going to get with a certain segment of the population, so you might as well just take it. It's something you can't really fuck up - a last name is a last name is a last name, and isn't associated with gender identity at all. I can see someone using it as a diplomatic stop-gap measure.

Not that this was that, though.

Then that segment of the population simply needs to get over themselves and deal with it. Its not hard to treat other people with respect. It requires no effort whatsoever on your part to use someone's preferred name and pronoun. The only reason not to do it is because you want to be explicitly disrespectful, and that level of disrespect should not be tolerated in a professional environment.

Darkmaigle said:
Any mention of the teachers union? Seems like its pretty hard to lose a teaching gig.

Anyways, pretty weird hill to die on. It's a school rule, follow it and lobby to change it if your true intent is free speech.

He resigned, he wasn't fired.

Basically what happened is the school told him that he would have to use the trans kid's preferred name, and he submitted his resignation in protest expecting the school to back down, and when they called his bluff and actually let him walk he cried fowl.

sabrina · Jun 9, 2018

caliph95 said:
I mean for what it's worth as well the country I was in school in doesn't have the best record with lgbt

Though I would agree it's possible they just wouldn't be out in the open in my school, I don't think there was openly gay students as well

I went to a small Christian college with thirteen hundred students. Statistically, you'd expect around a hundred gay students, but "officially speaking" nobody there was gay. As far as I'm aware, only my roommate knew I was bi. Repression sucks.

Darkmaigle · Jun 9, 2018

Geirskogul said:
Then that segment of the population simply needs to get over themselves and deal with it. Its not hard to treat other people with respect. It requires no effort whatsoever on your part to use someone's preferred name and pronoun. The only reason not to do it is because you want to be explicitly disrespectful, and that level of disrespect should not be tolerated in a professional environment.

He resigned, he wasn't fired.

Basically what happened is the school told him that he would have to use the trans kid's preferred name, and he submitted his resignation in protest expecting the school to back down, and when they called his bluff and actually let him walk he cried fowl.

Good for the school then.

stupei · Jun 9, 2018

I've gone by my middle name my entire life and never once had a teacher insist on using my first name. If they can call a cis student the name they want without a second thought, they can do it for a trans student. It makes the bigotry so obvious.

CaviarMeths · Jun 9, 2018

What does "dangerous lifestyle" even mean? Leaving aside the "lifestyle choice" bullshit, dude is on like Satan is at the gates of Hell wailing and gnashing his teeth and the only thing keeping him from unleashing his scourge on the world is being an asshole to LGBT folks.

Thanks, hero.

rokninja · Jun 9, 2018

I... I don't understand this. Like, at all.

Well I take that back. I do, the teacher was being a fucking prick.

But like... it's over the most simple thing?

Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but a LOT of my teachers in school even back in the 90s in high school would ask if you had something you preferred to be called. It wasn't that big of a deal.

Something like this is just straight up harassment, refusing to acknowledge someone as a person. "You're name is what I say it is," basically.

stupei said:
I've gone by my middle name my entire life and never once had a teacher insist on using my first name. If they can call a cis student the name they want without a second thought, they can do it for a trans student. It makes the bigotry so obvious.

EXACTLY

Deleted member 41271 · Jun 9, 2018

It really feels like homophobes and racists are testing the waters in America right now, trying to push their view into the public more and more and more and more :/

This is what this thing here is about, really. A teacher should respect his students as people. If using a name is too much, one isn't fit to be a teacher. And in this case... it isn't even as if the school stamped down on him. The school was incredibly lenient. HE RESIGNED, just... this is what people mean when they say that recent court cases and political decisions embolden phobic actions. This right here. He genuinely thought the school would bend over backwards for him in his quest to bully a student.

The Booktastic Bus · Jun 9, 2018

What a prat.

But sticking to surnames to call everyone is easier as long as it's consistent. That's what my teachers did, and that's what I did too.

BeI · Jun 9, 2018

My teachers always asked for preferred names. They'd call you "Sausage" if you said it was your preferred name. There's no legitimate reason why this teacher couldn't call a student by a normal preferred name.

Staticneuron · Jun 9, 2018

rjinaz said:
read the OP?

What is not clear is if he called ALL of his students by last name or just this one. I have had many teachers in my lifetime that referred to their students by last name only.

If this teacher only did this for one student though, he deserves the boot.

Rendering... · Jun 9, 2018

Hi there, I'm a fucking jerk who likes to dehumanize students that don't meet my personal standards. Hire me!

Holundrian · Jun 9, 2018

Deserved. If you insist on being a brainrotten asshole you deserve to get fired. Because you know if that's the game one wants to play students should also be able to insist calling their shithead teachers mr. trashbag.
I will never understand why idiots need to make a big deal about this and not respect the wishes of a student. It's like the most non issue thing ever to call someone like how they wanna be called. The ridiculous slippery slope extreme edge cases people like to flaunt aren't even close to being a reality worth considering.

Good on the school though putting on the ultimatum.

Rendering... · Jun 9, 2018

Holundrian said:
Deserved. If you insist on being a brainrotten asshole you deserve to get fired. Because you know if that's the game one wants to play students should also be able to insist calling their shithead teachers mr. trashbag.
I will never understand why idiots need to make a big deal about this and not respect the wishes of a student. It's like the most non issue thing ever to call someone like how they wanna be called. The ridiculous slippery slope extreme edge cases people like to flaunt aren't even close to being a reality worth considering.

Good on the school though putting on the ultimatum.

But how am I supposed to teach a potato person who is sexually attracted to pickles but romantically attracted to Vietnemese dwarves with 8-letter first names?

DiipuSurotu · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
What is not clear is if he called ALL of his students by last name or just this one. I have had many teachers in my lifetime that referred to their students by last name only.

If this teacher only did this for one student though, he deserves the boot.

No it doesn't even matter what he called other students, since he literally explained his motivation for calling this one student by their last name (hint: his motivation is bigotry).

gosublime · Jun 9, 2018

rokninja said:
Someone tell me if I'm wrong, but a LOT of my teachers in school even back in the 90s in high school would ask if you had something you preferred to be called. I

Literally the first thing I do when taking a class. So long as it's not offensive, they can have any name they like. I do tell them it is what I'll call them all year and at parents evening, so they're usually pretty normal about it

captainpat · Jun 9, 2018

Why are people trying to defend this? The guy already admit to being a transphobe. The less transphobes and bigoted people in general teaching kids the better.

Clefargle · Jun 9, 2018

Byakuya769 said:
How is calling someone the desired string of syllables controversial? You can have your goofy ass views on the students identity, but if you can't just say the name they prefer you really just want to say "fuck you" every time you call them out. Telling a kid they're wrong in your view is more important than respecting a person.

Fuck that teacher.

Can you imagine if these assholes acted this way to strangers? Like if they met some cus woman who looked masculine and accidentally called her "mr", would they persist and tell them that they don't look female? Who made these fuckwits the arbiters of other people's gender?

Staticneuron · Jun 9, 2018

DiipuSurotu said:
No it doesn't even matter what he called other students, since he literally explained his motivation for calling this one student by their last name (hint: his motivation is bigotry).

That wasn't in article in OP. After more research found a Huffpo article that confirms that he did try to use this method on all students but also confirms his bias. I am curious to see how this plays out.

Actions that would be equalized.

Kluge, 28, told the Indianapolis Star that he and school administrators initially reached a compromise that would permit him to refer to all students by their last names. A few months ago, however, he said he was told he would no longer be allowed to do that.

Proof of Bias

"I'm being compelled to encourage students in what I believe is something that's a dangerous lifestyle," the teacher, who has been with the Brownsburg School District for four years, said. "I'm fine to teach students with other beliefs, but the fact that teachers are being compelled to speak a certain way is the scary thing."

Here is the thing. While I don't trust anyone with a bias in a position of power/influence, I personally think it is more important how they behave and if he was willing to treat all students equally, the reactions of some here make it seems like he targeted someone. Granted if I was in a position of power I would fire him to be on the safe side, being on the receiving end of hatred, I am not an unbiased person myself.

DiipuSurotu · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
That wasn't in article in OP.

No you still don't get it. The part you bolded in my post was in the OP.

"I feel the compelled speech of forcing a teacher to take a side on this very highly controversial topic is a violation of our First Amendment rights," Kluge told ABC affiliate WRTV.

Again what he calls other students is totally irrelevant to this.

Staticneuron · Jun 9, 2018

DiipuSurotu said:
No you still don't get it. The part you bolded in my post was in the OP.

Again what he calls other students is totally irrelevant to this.

That is not proof of bias. Some people actually do not feel like doing anything deemed controversial. That did not specifically state his belief like the quote I posted. Using that quote in OP is an assumption.

And of course how he treats others matters. That is the whole point of people struggles with equality. People, businesses and Org's are constantly called out for their behavior and the basis is because of unequal treatment. If he was willing to call every student by their last name I doubt any student would have felt singled out.

Deleted member 3093 · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
That wasn't in article in OP. After more research found a Huffpo article that confirms that he did try to use this method on all students but also confirms his bias. I am curious to see how this plays out.

Actions that would be equalized.

Proof of Bias

Here is the thing. While I don't trust anyone with a bias in a position of power/influence, I personally think it is more important how they behave and if he was willing to treat all students equally, the reactions of some here make it seems like he targeted someone. Granted if I was in a position of power I would fire him to be on the safe side, being on the receiving end of hatred, I am not an unbiased person myself.

Changing the system to avoid accommodating a student is not treating that student equally.

DiipuSurotu · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
That is not proof of bias. Some people actually do not feel like doing anything deemed controversial. That did not specifically state his belief like the quote I posted. Using that quote in OP is an assumption.

Calling someone by a name they like is not a "very highly controversial topic", except for transphobes.

Staticneuron · Jun 9, 2018

A.By said:
Changing the system to avoid accommodating a student is not treating that student equally.

Since when is calling students by their last name "changing" the system? Unless preferred names also changed last name of student, I don't see how this can be considered against the student versus against the policy in place. Which is implying that they stated that he must call students by their first names and especially if that name is preferred. This seems odd. Maybe there is more to this, like the student or others have brought complaints against this guy, or he has a history that is not being described here.

Vivian · Jun 9, 2018

Clefargle said:
Can you imagine if these assholes acted this way to strangers? Like if they met some cus woman who looked masculine and accidentally called her "mr", would they persist and tell them that they don't look female? Who made these fuckwits the arbiters of other people's gender?

Oh, this absolutely happens. Especially when it's a cis woman saying something in support of trans people. Some people just don't understand the idea that God forbid someone can respect other human beings different to them, so it's okay to repeatedly insist that someone supportive of trans people is a "man" because "they don't look feminine". Ugh.

Deleted member 3093 · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
Since when is calling students by their last name "changing" the system? Unless preferred names also changed last name of student, I don't see how this can be considered against the student versus against the policy in place. Which is implying that they stated that he must call students by their first names and especially if that name is preferred. This seems odd. Maybe there is more to this, like the student or others have brought complaints against this guy, or he has a history that is not being described here.

If they are calling the student by their last name specifically out of opposition to using the student's preferred name, or they are trying to avoid using first names in general for any students for that reasons, then yes, it is a discriminatory practice.

NoName999 · Jun 9, 2018

blastermath said:
Why are people trying to defend this? The guy already admit to being a transphobe. The less transphobes and bigoted people in general teaching kids the better.

Because they're transphobic themselves. And this happens every time there's a transphobia topic.

I mean, some of these lemmings just follow each other right off the ban cliff.

Staticneuron · Jun 9, 2018

A.By said:
If they are calling the student by their last name specifically out of opposition to using the student's preferred name, or they are trying to avoid using first names in general for any students for that reasons, then yes, it is a discriminatory practice.

It would be discriminatory if he was targeting a student. To call ALL of his students by last name would not be discriminatory given the definition of discrimination

DiipuSurotu said:
Calling someone by a name they like is not a "very highly controversial topic", except for transphobes.

And I am not one to judge weak or timid people for their reasoning but I am pointing out they do exist. Placing them in a box seems easy for you but I wait until people make it more explicit. Which this teacher did. Either way, there was a method for equal treatment that was not held, which is odd, unless they wanted to get rid of a the man with the bias. I don't blame them, but I am curious to see how this plays out because this is a public school and a lawsuit would have wide reaching effects.

NoName999 said:
Because they're transphobic themselves. And this happens every time there's a transphobia topic.

I mean, some of these lemmings just follow each other right off the ban cliff.

It seems as if people want to make this into black and white because they don't like his opinions. I am not a transphobe, nor do I like/respect this teacher. My only question is about the scenario provided. We established this guy is biased, but he presented a behavior that was not discriminatory. One that I grew up with environments of teachers calling students by last name, I am just curious how calling all students by their last names equates to discriminatory behavior against a single student.

Ketkat · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
It would be discriminatory if he was targeting a student. To call ALL of his students by last name would not be discriminatory given the definition of discrimination

And I am not one to judge weak or timid people for their reasoning but I am pointing out they do exist. Placing them in a box seems easy for you but I wait until people make it more explicit. Which this teacher did. Either way, there was a method for equal treatment that was not held, which is odd, unless they wanted to get rid of a the man with the bias. I don't blame them, but I am curious to see how this plays out because this is a public school and a lawsuit would have wide reaching effects.

It seems as if people want to make this into black and white because they don't like his opinions. I am not a transphobe, nor do I like/respect this teacher. My only question is about the scenario provided. We established this guy is biased, but he presented a behavior that was not discriminatory. One that I grew up with environments of teachers calling students by last name, I am just curious how calling all students by their last names equates to discriminatory behavior against a single student.

Its actually incredibly black and white. The student went to a doctor, and had their name changed in the school system officially. The school told the teacher to use the preferred name, he refused because he's bigoted towards trans people. He lost his job because he refused to follow procedure.

It's not equal treatment to constantly look for loopholes to invalidate someone's identity.

NoName999 · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
It seems as if people want to make this into black and white because they don't like his opinions. I am not a transphobe, nor do I like/respect this teacher. My only question is about the scenario provided. We established this guy is biased, but he presented a behavior that was not discriminatory. One that I grew up with environments of teachers calling students by last name, I am just curious how calling all students by their last names equates to discriminatory behavior against a single student.

You're being purposefully obtuse and deflecting. This teacher wasn't calling all students by their last name. It's made very clear why he only called the transgender student by their last name.

Like you're bringing up a scenario that has nothing to do with this situation.

Finally, I like how you think my transphobia post was such an attack on you that you felt the need to defend yourself. Hmmmmmmm

Goat Mimicry · Jun 9, 2018

The teacher was basically doing what the Virginia Republicans wanted to do after a trans woman won an election. Does anyone want to argue that those people weren't being bigoted?

Staticneuron · Jun 9, 2018

Ketkat said:
Its actually incredibly black and white. The student went to a doctor, and had their name changed in the school system officially. The school told the teacher to use the preferred name, he refused because he's bigoted towards trans people. He lost his job because he refused to follow procedure.

It's not equal treatment to constantly look for loopholes to invalidate someone's identity.

Equal treatment refers to behavior not reasons behind behavior. If he treated all students the same by calling them by their last name, it is equal treatment even if it was born from a bigoted thought. I think I have explained myself clearly on the name part which is the only thing I am curious about in this situation. I will lose no sleep nor tears if this guy never sees the inside of a classroom again.

NoName999 said:
You're being purposefully obtuse and deflecting. This teacher wasn't calling all students by their last name. It's made very clear why he only called the transgender student by their last name.

Like you're bringing up a scenario that has nothing to do with this situation.

Finally, I like how you think my transphobia post was such an attack on you that you felt the need to defend yourself. Hmmmmmmm

So where is this established he ONLY called out this one student by their last name? That would be clear discrimination but that is not what I have seen described in articles.

I also must say, that it feels rather disturbing that by pointing this particular aspect out, people are putting this into "for" or "against" camps very easily. I am thinking this is the nature of relations between minorities, LGBQT, religious subgroups and people in power in the US. How easily for not only hate to rise up, but also strong reactions as a seeming way to fight back. While I suffer no hate group, extremely dislike "the middle" conversations, and reject calls for seeing the other side of a discussion regarding inequality, my thoughts going forward is where does the sticking point become for people. If it is not actions, then it means that the sheer fact that this guys is biased earns ire. I am ok with that, but don't find it right that when talking about actions, his is not being described accurately.

I didn't see your post as an attack, just a broad attempt to put people in camps. I put that into my response as to ensure not being put into box/camp. Putting people in camps or boxes is an easy way to dismiss entire arguments because you have felt you defined a person and have disregarded the talk they put forward. Which I find telling as again, you characterize me as obtuse and deflecting but stated the teacher did something to only one student, which I had not seen in any article.

If this is going to be what a conversation about a charged topic is going to turn into, I will stop posting but I really hope you can see clearly how the behavior I described about putting people in boxes or camps is not only a negative tactic but was also used by groups trying to stifle discussion.

Shadybiz · Jun 9, 2018

Well....the school has a policy, and he violated it. Seems like a pretty open and shut case. And no, the First Amendment doesn't give you the right to be an asshole, contrary to popular belief.

Ketkat · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
Equal treatment refers to behavior not reasons behind behavior. If he treated all students the same by calling them by their last name, it is equal treatment even if it was born from a bigoted thought. I think I have explained myself clearly on the name part which is the only thing I am curious about in this situation. I will lose no sleep nor tears if this guy never sees the inside of a classroom again.

So where is this established he ONLY called out this one student by their last name? That would be clear discrimination but that is not what I have seen described in articles.

I also must say, that it feels rather disturbing that by pointing this particular aspect out, people are putting this into "for" or "against" camps very easily. I am thinking this is the nature of relations between minorities, LGBQT, religious subgroups and people in power in the US. How easily for not only hate to rise up, but also strong reactions as a seeming way to fight back. While I suffer no hate group, extremely dislike "the middle" conversations, and reject calls for seeing the other side of a discussion regarding inequality, my thoughts going forward is where does the sticking point become for people. If it is not actions, then it means that the sheer fact that this guys is biased earns ire. I am ok with that, but don't find it right that when talking about actions, his is not being described accurately.

I didn't see your post as an attack, just a broad attempt to put people in camps. I put that into my response as to ensure not being put into box/camp. Putting people in camps or boxes is an easy way to dismiss entire arguments because you have felt you defined a person and have disregarded the talk they put forward. Which I find telling as again, you characterize me as obtuse and deflecting but stated the teacher did something to only one student, which I had not seen in any article.

If this is going to be what a conversation about a charged topic is going to turn into, I will stop posting but I really hope you can see clearly how the behavior I described about putting people in boxes or camps is not only a negative tactic but was also used by groups trying to stifle discussion.

The issue with putting people into boxes or camps? When they admit that they're doing it because they see being trans as a "dangerous lifestyle"? And his ACTIONS are wrong as well. The school told him to stop using everyone's last name, and to use their preferred names, and he refused. Do you really think that someone who sees their student in that light is going to be treating them with respect when it comes to last names? Is he going to use Mr/Ms. appropriately? Will he use pronouns appropriately? And can you describe why its controversial to use someone's preferred name as well, since you brought that up earlier? Do you think he should have the right to refuse to preferred names?

Deleted member 5127 · Jun 9, 2018

Good riddance, it's fine if you do it on accident or didn't know. But this guy went out of his way to be transphobic. A person like that doesn't have a place in education.

Eumi · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
Equal treatment refers to behavior not reasons behind behavior. If he treated all students the same by calling them by their last name, it is equal treatment even if it was born from a bigoted thought. I think I have explained myself clearly on the name part which is the only thing I am curious about in this situation. I will lose no sleep nor tears if this guy never sees the inside of a classroom again.

The reason he started using last names was to specifically deprive one student of their identity.

The other students were collateral damage in a targeted attack. Don't try and frame this as "equal" in any way.

hexanaut · Jun 9, 2018

I'm sure he'll be on Dave Rubin in no time.

SHAQ · Jun 9, 2018

That video in OP was cringey.

"I feel the compelled speech of forcing a teacher to take a side on this very highly controversial topic is a violation of our First Amendment rights," Kluge told ABC affiliate WRTV.

My dude... this shit isn't even about pronouns. Why even get hung on this shit?

CaviarMeths · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
It would be discriminatory if he was targeting a student. To call ALL of his students by last name would not be discriminatory given the definition of discrimination

And I am not one to judge weak or timid people for their reasoning but I am pointing out they do exist. Placing them in a box seems easy for you but I wait until people make it more explicit. Which this teacher did. Either way, there was a method for equal treatment that was not held, which is odd, unless they wanted to get rid of a the man with the bias. I don't blame them, but I am curious to see how this plays out because this is a public school and a lawsuit would have wide reaching effects.

It seems as if people want to make this into black and white because they don't like his opinions. I am not a transphobe, nor do I like/respect this teacher. My only question is about the scenario provided. We established this guy is biased, but he presented a behavior that was not discriminatory. One that I grew up with environments of teachers calling students by last name, I am just curious how calling all students by their last names equates to discriminatory behavior against a single student.

The school district has a clear policy on preferred names. He refused to follow the policy and voluntarily resigned instead. He admitted freely in several interviews that his actions were motivated by bigotry.

You keep trying to reframe the case around an insignificant detail to distract from the context surrounding the issue. Everyone here knows the playbook by now. It's just wasting everyone's time.

Staticneuron · Jun 9, 2018

Ketkat said:
The issue with putting people into boxes or camps? When they admit that they're doing it because they see being trans as a "dangerous lifestyle"? And his ACTIONS are wrong as well. The school told him to stop using everyone's last name, and to use their preferred names, and he refused. Do you really think that someone who sees their student in that light is going to be treating them with respect when it comes to last names? Is he going to use Mr/Ms. appropriately? Will he use pronouns appropriately? And can you describe why its controversial to use someone's preferred name as well, since you brought that up earlier? Do you think he should have the right to refuse to preferred names?

Well......

Staticneuron said:
Here is the thing. While I don't trust anyone with a bias in a position of power/influence, I personally think it is more important how they behave and if he was willing to treat all students equally, the reactions of some here make it seems like he targeted someone. Granted if I was in a position of power I would fire him to be on the safe side, being on the receiving end of hatred, I am not an unbiased person myself.

CaviarMeths said:
The school district has a clear policy on preferred names. He refused to follow the policy and voluntarily resigned instead. He admitted freely in several interviews that his actions were motivated by bigotry.

You keep trying to reframe the case around an insignificant detail to distract from the context surrounding the issue. Everyone here knows the playbook by now. It's just wasting everyone's time.

How can you quote me and still ignore what I posted. And good job on the doing exactly what I mentioned about putting people in camps CaviarMeths. Unless a school has a policy that states that teachers are not allowed to call students by their last name I don't see how this will play out as a defense in court.

Staticneuron said:
And I am not one to judge weak or timid people for their reasoning but I am pointing out they do exist. Placing them in a box seems easy for you but I wait until people make it more explicit. Which this teacher did. Either way, there was a method for equal treatment that was not held, which is odd, unless they wanted to get rid of a the man with the bias. I don't blame them, but I am curious to see how this plays out because this is a public school and a lawsuit would have wide reaching effects.

Staticneuron said:
We established this guy is biased, but he presented a behavior that was not discriminatory.

Staticneuron said:
Equal treatment refers to behavior not reasons behind behavior. If he treated all students the same by calling them by their last name, it is equal treatment even if it was born from a bigoted thought. I think I have explained myself clearly on the name part which is the only thing I am curious about in this situation. I will lose no sleep nor tears if this guy never sees the inside of a classroom again.

I am done here. I have been clear, but it is just as I expected and no matter how exact with words I am being, this is still attempted here. Lesson learned.

deepFlaw · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
That wasn't in article in OP. After more research found a Huffpo article that confirms that he did try to use this method on all students but also confirms his bias. I am curious to see how this plays out.

Actions that would be equalized.

Proof of Bias

Here is the thing. While I don't trust anyone with a bias in a position of power/influence, I personally think it is more important how they behave and if he was willing to treat all students equally, the reactions of some here make it seems like he targeted someone. Granted if I was in a position of power I would fire him to be on the safe side, being on the receiving end of hatred, I am not an unbiased person myself.

He literally changed how he was calling everyone because of trans students. The agreement he made with the school would make this clear. So of fucking course he was targeting someone.

Staticneuron said:
That is not proof of bias. Some people actually do not feel like doing anything deemed controversial. That did not specifically state his belief like the quote I posted. Using that quote in OP is an assumption.

And of course how he treats others matters. That is the whole point of people struggles with equality. People, businesses and Org's are constantly called out for their behavior and the basis is because of unequal treatment. If he was willing to call every student by their last name I doubt any student would have felt singled out.

Someone afraid of "doing anything deemed controversial" probably wouldn't start whining about "compelled speech", or try to call his employer's bluff by giving them a resignation letter in a bid to be allowed to be a bigot.

And you realize it's not like this class exists in a vacuum, right? Like his students can talk to their friends who are a grade ahead of them and go "Hey, did he only use last names with you?", and when they get told "Nope!" and realize the difference is an out trans student in his class this year, it's not very hard to put it all together and have the student feel singled out!

Staticneuron said:
Equal treatment refers to behavior not reasons behind behavior. If he treated all students the same by calling them by their last name, it is equal treatment even if it was born from a bigoted thought. I think I have explained myself clearly on the name part which is the only thing I am curious about in this situation. I will lose no sleep nor tears if this guy never sees the inside of a classroom again.

So where is this established he ONLY called out this one student by their last name? That would be clear discrimination but that is not what I have seen described in articles.

I also must say, that it feels rather disturbing that by pointing this particular aspect out, people are putting this into "for" or "against" camps very easily. I am thinking this is the nature of relations between minorities, LGBQT, religious subgroups and people in power in the US. How easily for not only hate to rise up, but also strong reactions as a seeming way to fight back. While I suffer no hate group, extremely dislike "the middle" conversations, and reject calls for seeing the other side of a discussion regarding inequality, my thoughts going forward is where does the sticking point become for people. If it is not actions, then it means that the sheer fact that this guys is biased earns ire. I am ok with that, but don't find it right that when talking about actions, his is not being described accurately.

I didn't see your post as an attack, just a broad attempt to put people in camps. I put that into my response as to ensure not being put into box/camp. Putting people in camps or boxes is an easy way to dismiss entire arguments because you have felt you defined a person and have disregarded the talk they put forward. Which I find telling as again, you characterize me as obtuse and deflecting but stated the teacher did something to only one student, which I had not seen in any article.

If this is going to be what a conversation about a charged topic is going to turn into, I will stop posting but I really hope you can see clearly how the behavior I described about putting people in boxes or camps is not only a negative tactic but was also used by groups trying to stifle discussion.

You are wasting so many words caring about a bigot who was openly being a bigot and almost certainly did not treat his trans students with respect, because it's a pretty ridiculous assumption that a dude who did such a petty thing to get out of even acknowledging their name is gonna behave towards them as he does everyone other student.

What's the point in debating the semantics of whether he called everyone by their last name to disrespect a trans student, or just called a trans student by their last name to disrespect a trans student. Yes, he would deserve ire for just being a bigot anyway, but you're also being needlessly obtuse about this action being equivalently disrespectful (or even more petty, really) and it was already covered earlier in the thread anyway.

Not everything is some fucking slippery slope. I'm going to put you in the box of "caring way too much about people talking nicely about bigots and how we apparently all put each other into boxes, instead of being understanding of why people are reacting this way".

rjinaz · Jun 9, 2018

Come on, these are high school students. You really don't think they knew what was going on? I mean obviously somebody figured it out or it wouldn't have been reported in the first place. This teacher is a bully, and a bigot, and there is no need to defend them as they have admitted it openly.

And no, I'm not impressed that he managed to find this "middleground". Just like I wouldn't be impressed by somebody not acknowledging a married gay couple as married because they don't believe in gay marriage. Or if a principle banned all water fountains from being used so that way no Black student could use any.

Volimar · Jun 9, 2018

This has to be the biggest defense force thread I've seen on Era so far. All these people bending over backwards to give the teacher cover. Shameful.

rjinaz · Jun 9, 2018

Volimar said:
This has to be the biggest defense force thread I've seen on Era so far. All these people bending over backwards to give the teacher cover. Shameful.

Very shameful. He admits he is a bigot. Explains why he did it....

"But I was called by my last name in high school too!"

"he found a middleground!"

Transphobia is alive and well on era and I don't think some people even realize why they feel so inclined to defend this guy when it's such an open and shut case.

Can you imagine if the story was about a teacher that stops calling on all students for questions and answers just because they don't want to talk directly to a Black student? Hey! He figured out a way not to be a racist! And look, he's not even breaking any rules!

Mihos · Jun 9, 2018

I don't think the teacher self identifies as an asshole

NoName999 · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
I am done here. I have been clear, but it is just as I expected and no matter how exact with words I am being, this is still attempted here. Lesson learned.

I'm sure the lesson learned you learn is not "Don't defend a bigot by arguing semantics" but "WAAAAAAH I'm being attacked by the hivemind!"

rjinaz · Jun 9, 2018

Mihos said:
I don't think the teacher self identifies as an asshole

What does this mean?

Ogami Itto · Jun 9, 2018

Are some people here just being deliberately obtuse? He was given a fucking choice, either call this one single student by their preferrred name or resign, THAT'S AN EASY FUCKING CHOICE!

Now he is probably trying to be a martyr for the cause, just like that asshole google guy and diversity.

rjinaz · Jun 9, 2018

Ogami Itto said:
Are some people here just being deliberately obtuse? He was given a fucking choice, either call this one single student by their preferrred name or resign, THAT'S AN EASY FUCKING CHOICE!

Apparently some people have no problem with bigotry as long as whoever is doing it is coy about it.

stupei · Jun 9, 2018

Staticneuron said:
It seems as if people want to make this into black and white because they don't like his opinions. I am not a transphobe, nor do I like/respect this teacher. My only question is about the scenario provided. We established this guy is biased, but he presented a behavior that was not discriminatory. One that I grew up with environments of teachers calling students by last name, I am just curious how calling all students by their last names equates to discriminatory behavior against a single student.

A refusal to treat other people with even the most basic form of respect isn't an opinion. The dude bullied a child. That's not an opinion. That's a form of behavior. Whether or not motivated by a belief system, nobody gives a fuck what he thinks. We care how those thoughts led him to act. If he had already established a pattern, as implied by having to reach a compromise, of calling students by their first name and changes it only after he has a trans student, his intent is just a clear to everyone. He is demonstrating his opinion to the entire class.

Because again, deciding whether or not a student deserves to have their personhood acknowledged or not is not really a stand one gets to take as though it's some kind of controversial thing without being an enormous piece of shit.

rjinaz said:
Apparently some people have no problem with bigotry as long as whoever is doing it is coy about it.

Some people love to be the dissenting opinion because it shows they consider facts more carefully than the ignorant mob, don't you know.

Teacher was "forced" to resign for using a trans student's last name instead of preferred one.

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