Calling someone by something other than their name when that is what they like to be called is not neutral.
"Wahhhh my feelings"
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Teacher was "forced" to resign for using a trans student's last name instead of preferred one.
- Thread starter Inugami
- Start date
Calling someone by something other than their name when that is what they like to be called is not neutral.
"Wahhhh my feelings"
No, the teacher is mean and hateful and it's not complicated.
There are no two sides here. Follow the rule, stop looking for a loophole to excuse your bigotry, keep your job. Easy peasy. He didn't remain in neutral ground at all, his intent was obvious and he has stated as much repeatedly.
In the court of public opinion it might be but in a legal case will that stand? it's one thing to say I won't give you a job for that reason its entirely different to say I'll simply call you by your actual name for that reason. Probably depends on the type of lawyer he can afford. He'll likely get a right wing extremist to take the case Pro bono.
The best case from that is some type of payout and the guy just goes away because someone like that who can't even practice tolerance has no business being a teacher.
What about everything else I said? To me, it seems like this is being taken to extremes.
As I said, I understand both parties.
In regards to your last sentence, if it was on purpose then fck him.
I did in my first post.
But as it was mentioned in a post afterwards (by a different poster) he had ill intent so fck him.
Please don't come in and "both sides" an issue you haven't even fully read up on. It's very easy to find out that the man had malicious intent.
Seriously. Dude has to be deranged. Why does he care so much about a random students name? Its ridiculous. It literally has zero impact on his life.
An important point, which some of us have raised, that it's one thing to be a crusty teacher that refers to everyone by their last name. Half of my law school professors did that. But I have never, not once and not ever, encountered a teacher who referred to someone as "Smith" and not "Ms. Smith."
In that case, he'd still intentionally misgender someone by using the wrong title.
But here, he straight up admitted that he had bigoted intent. You don't have to look any further than his own words. You don't need to infer anything. You don't need to put gloss on actions. (Even despite that, I think there's a pretty good chance that last year his students were "Mr. Jones" and "Ms. Johnson," not simply their last names.)
Look, I'm not the best with trans issues: there's a lot of nuance that I might not understand at first.
But calling someone by their preferred name is literally the fucking least you can do.
In that case, he'd still intentionally misgender someone by using the wrong title.
But here, he straight up admitted that he had bigoted intent. You don't have to look any further than his own words. You don't need to infer anything. You don't need to put gloss on actions. (Even despite that, I think there's a pretty good chance that last year his students were "Mr. Jones" and "Ms. Johnson," not simply their last names.)
Look, I'm not the best with trans issues: there's a lot of nuance that I might not understand at first.
But calling someone by their preferred name is literally the fucking least you can do.
Well we certainly understand everything we need about you too
Don't both sides this shit, don't be an idiot.
There is no "extreme" on the side of the student/school.
"But where does it end? What if someone's preferred name is 'Poopyface Butthole?' In this clearly real scenario I will be made to look like a fool!"
Pretty spot on; Jordan Petetson's whole thing is literally "if they make me use their preferred pronouns we will all end up in Maoist death camps"
A person made a comment, someone asked what they meant, i made an offhand remark, and suddenly everyone thinks I don't understand the situation, because I guess I'm the only one required to read anything. I know what the teacher did, i approve of what the school did, the "compelled speech" argument is total bullshit, and why is being forced to treat people with the bare minimum of human decency by using the name they asked you to use such a goddamn hard thing for transphobic assholes to do? Have I explained my view on the subject? I hope so.
I'm so glad there are logically minded centrists defending the rights of bigots everywhere /s
Yeah but that would be giving in to your liberal agenda maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan /s
Yeah, I'd say there's a very high chance that he was misgendering the trans kid and that's why it became an issue.
You must have missed or decided not to read my posts following my original post.
You're cool dude.
Jesus, you could at least try to be less obvious.
Edit: Aaaannnd banned. I hope it was worth it.
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You can see both sides to intentionally violating school policy to make sure a student knows you don't respect their basic identity?
Lmao. You do not get to be mad at someone for not following up on a story when that is explicitly what you did.
And called her "dude" certainly doesn't help.
Meanwhile at religious schools all across the world.
"Can I use my first amendment right to discuss how gay marriage is ok?"
"No, do that and you are fired"
"..."
"Can I use my first amendment right to discuss how gay marriage is ok?"
"No, do that and you are fired"
"..."
Terrible, to go against school policy like that. What is so hard about using the name someone prefers?
I personally always disliked when teachers did the last name thing. I've always preferred my first name. But on the other hand I never cared enough to bring it up to any of the teachers either.
I'd say maybe a third of the male teachers I've had from middle school to high school all did exactly that. They all would refer to everyone in the class by their last name and last name only. So yes it would just be "Smith" and not "Mr. Smith" or "Ms. Smith" and that was the exact pattern for multiple teachers.
The one thing they all had in common was that they were all basketball/football coaches after school. So perhaps it was a sports coaching habit?
I personally wasn't regularly called "Mr." by teachers or professors until after high school.
I personally always disliked when teachers did the last name thing. I've always preferred my first name. But on the other hand I never cared enough to bring it up to any of the teachers either.
Well not to defend it in anyway, but that is completely the opposite of my personal experience.
I'd say maybe a third of the male teachers I've had from middle school to high school all did exactly that. They all would refer to everyone in the class by their last name and last name only. So yes it would just be "Smith" and not "Mr. Smith" or "Ms. Smith" and that was the exact pattern for multiple teachers.
The one thing they all had in common was that they were all basketball/football coaches after school. So perhaps it was a sports coaching habit?
I personally wasn't regularly called "Mr." by teachers or professors until after high school.
I don't get this teacher at all. People had nicknames in school they wanted to go by when I was in school.
Yea, so did I. The teachers very rarely if ever referred to them by it. They very often used our last names. That was extremely common.
Whatever the case, it was school policy. And they have the right to do what they want with a teacher that refuses to follow it.
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Yes we do. He has already admitted to why he did what he did. We have all the information.
Ok I some how read over the portion where he directly referred to wanting to sidestep a "Controversial" issue.
I don't understand. 9/10 teachers I had throughout my life would call your name on the first day of school and ask if there was something else you wanted to go by.
My school did that because a to be polite and we had both a diverse students and teachers in a western styled school so you have names thar are too long or teachers can't pronounce properly
University ask for preferred names too
But I bet both of our high ir middle schools were lacking in transgender students
The guy is a bigot. It's not about the name, it's about acknowledging something they are against. In this case, it's also about targeting a kid, I mean I'm sure everybody knew what the hell the teacher was doing.
I mean he admitted it
It would likely be obvious to the students too
Of course it was. Wouldn't even be able to say Mr or Ms, would just have to call everybody last name only. And it's not something the teacher started doing until this student. Wonder why? Oh but he thought him self so slick.
Guy has no business being an educator if he considers treating his students with basic human dignity to be an impossible violation of his moral code. Fuck right out of here.
Yeah so part of being a teacher is being there to support kids as their bodies and minds grow to make sure they have a safe childhood that allows them to reach their potential before society gets the chance to bully them. This teacher was being a bully and has no place taking care of kids, as he cannot create the necessary environment for their growth.
Sad thing is, I'm sure there are plenty of private schools and Christian schools that will welcome him with open arms. I doubt he'll be unemployed long. Not even sure why he wants to return honestly.
For what it's worth, about one in every three hundred people are trans by conservative estimates, so your schools probably did have some trans students even if they weren't out yet.
Thinking back to the schools I went to, if that math is right there would actually be more than there were Black students, I think that would extend to my small town in Illinois, and even a high school or two here in Phoenix.
I mean for what it's worth as well the country I was in school in doesn't have the best record with lgbt
Though I would agree it's possible they just wouldn't be out in the open in my school, I don't think there was openly gay students as well
User Banned (5 Days): Excuse and downplay transphobia.
I feel like using a transgendered person's last name is as close as you're going to get with a certain segment of the population, so in some cases you might as well just shrug your shoulders and take it for what it's worth. It's something you can't really fuck up - a last name is a last name is a last name, and isn't associated with gender identity at all. I can see someone using it as a diplomatic stop-gap measure.
Not that this was that, though.
Not that this was that, though.
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