• Ever wanted an RSS feed of all your favorite gaming news sites? Go check out our new Gaming Headlines feed! Read more about it here.

BeeKaine

Banned
Apr 21, 2018
736
The issues that the movie addressed exist in the real world.

No one denied this.

The only difference is the way the issues would be solved, which wouldn't be with laser guns.

So now you suddenly think laser guns are a bad thing.

Power respects power. Holding hands and praying hasn't worked, so if retaliating with what put blacks in chains and kept them there in the first place is drinking the Kool Aid, I'll have Raspberry Lemonade flavor, plz.

Aw, look at Malcolm X Jr., posting away on the most liberal safe space about how he'll totally take the world back for black people if someone would just give him highly-advanced, superpowerful alien magic technology, and were probably coco for Cocoa Puffs.
 

Lackless

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,137
T'Challa said it best when he he told Killmonger "You've become what you hate." It was an unreasonable plan.
 

Yasuke

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
19,817
Aw, look at Malcolm X Jr., posting away on the most liberal safe space about how he'll totally take the world back for black people if someone would just give him highly-advanced, superpowerful alien magic technology, and were probably coco for Cocoa Puffs.

...what even is this? Lol
 

BeeKaine

Banned
Apr 21, 2018
736
...what even is this? Lol

I can't take a person on ResetERA seriously when he thinks a literal comicbook villain has the right idea when it comes to real-life racial tensions. In that comicbook universe. Where he thinks superheroes won't fight supervillains if the people the supervillain is killing are white.
 

D65

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,862
Hell, if I had the Infinity Gauntlet... all our problems (PoC, that is) would be fixed in a day, though those of you that know racist friends or have racist relatives, don't be surprised if they just turn to ash all of a sudden. *snap*

So you would kill more people than Thanos
 

Turbo Tu-Tone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,951
No one denied this.



So now you suddenly think laser guns are a bad thing.



Aw, look at Malcolm X Jr., posting away on the most liberal safe space about how he'll totally take the world back for black people if someone would just give him highly-advanced, superpowerful alien magic technology, and were probably coco for Cocoa Puffs.
Goddamn, I got you pressed, huh? All because I won't sit down and say "okay, boss, I'll be good."
LMFAO!
 
Last edited:

CassCade

Banned
Nov 2, 2017
2,037
Not all but some would join, and if their attack fails, we will witness the genocide of black people. Killmonger's plan won't help black people, it will fuck them over more than anything.
 

kswiston

Member
Oct 24, 2017
3,693
Comic book needs to still be able to make their customer relates unless the title is explicitly SCiFi, the trope is usually referred as Reed Richards is useless.
Same reason as genius bad guy just don't become filthy rich with their inventions while respecting the law.

They are able to make the individual films relatable, and have mostly consistent logic within those. But when you start getting into "Where was Thor during X?" Or "Why didn't Iron Man do Y?", it just breaks down.

So bringing the Avengers into this already hypothetical question just makes the water muddy.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
They'd be fucked the second a competent group kills or incapacitates the people given the weapons. The vibranium energy shields aren't omnipotent nor always deployed. He would have just ended up giving vibranium weapons to other world powers. His plan was awful.

You're not the only who's said this, but this sentiment hasn't been shared throughout the thread: what makes you think it would start as an all out warfare from the get go? Is it that T'Challa survived and there was still a resistance to Killmonger's rule? That was a tremendous threat to the rest of the world and would've had real consequences.

Killmonger could've ordered their spies to assassinate political leaders and cripple infrastructure of any country without even being detected. They have nanotech armor that activates at the thought of the user, untraceable communication devices that work across the globe and unsurpassed cloaking tech. The world at large doesn't even know of the coutnry's existence, and they would easily gain support around the world—it doesn't take geniuses to gain traction in a given movement.

Did you expect someone in every major city with a bullhorn advertising and just tossing laser weapons to crowds of people or something?

Whoever said above that people routinely underestimate nations of color was spot on—it even happens to fictional ones.
 

BeeKaine

Banned
Apr 21, 2018
736
User Banned (1 Week): Hostility + Antagonizing other members
Goddamn, I got you pressed, huh? All because I won't sit down okay and say "okay, boss, I'll be good."

Oh no, please, don't gun me down with your magic space weapons that don't exist. As that seems to be the only way you think you can be an activist.

I mean, actual black activists did something, and they didn't need a Wakanda. What are you doing? Flailing around that no one takes your fantasy about a magic African warlord killing white people for you seriously?

You think you can change the world? Do it then. Those people tried. Do it for Killmonger. Go on. Kill all the white people, the women and children too. Give all minorities guns, destablize the country, and do it without being killed, of course.

You don't have the excuse of the Avengers stopping you. What's your malfunction?
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
I mean he couldn't even rule his country for more than a day so I doubt any plan he's made is going off well.
 

JonnyDBrit

God and Anime
Member
Oct 25, 2017
11,015
With regards to what sort of society Erik was planning, and how he might be able to make it appeal to people, it's worth remembering how he describes it:
"The sun will never set on the Wakandan Empire."

His plan is not for oppressed peoples to have the means to revolt within their own nations and then self-determine from there once they have secured power. He wants Wakanda to be the 'guiding hand' of a global superpower, and how far that extends is somewhat vague. So the question isn't merely one of whether of not people would be willing to fight for their liberation, but to then cede such to what they may or may not regard as a foreign power, but one that would treat them preferentially. That I think is a harder sell, though it would still appeal to some. It would ultimately depend a lot on context, as has been the case for Pan-Africanism in general.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
I can't take a person on ResetERA seriously when he thinks a literal comicbook villain has the right idea when it comes to real-life racial tensions. In that comicbook universe. Where he thinks superheroes won't fight supervillains if the people the supervillain is killing are white.

You'd probably get some superheroes second-guessing whether to save you with that attitude
 
Oct 28, 2017
304
They are able to make the individual films relatable, and have mostly consistent logic within those. But when you start getting into "Where was Thor during X?" Or "Why didn't Iron Man do Y?", it just breaks down.

So bringing the Avengers into this already hypothetical question just makes the water muddy.
Most discussion about bringing fictional universe again the real word never really work out because a lot of things are never really explained or are sacrificed for making spectacles.

Speculative fiction is hard and is full of power fantasy: look at the trash that is Drakaverse...
Or Battletech where war is less efficient that it is today.

If killmonger would appear on our earth, I would expect the earth to be fucked by starting global thermal Nuclear war between countries.

If people are killed by secret agent from a secret country, what will happen? It will be blamed on other countries and the escalation will be very very fast.
 

Astral

Member
Oct 27, 2017
28,035
Killmonger's plan was incredibly stupid, childish, and shortsighted. Maybe some people would've joined him but I don't think they would've even come close to succeeding. All he would've accomplished was getting a bunch of innocent people killed.
 

Turbo Tu-Tone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,951
I can't take a person on ResetERA seriously when he thinks a literal comicbook villain has the right idea when it comes to real-life racial tensions. In that comicbook universe. Where he thinks superheroes won't fight supervillains if the people the supervillain is killing are white.
I can't take a person seriously who insists on putting the SAME words into my mouth that I told him not to earlier. Point out where I said, in this thread or any other, that Kilmonger's idea of arming black people with SUPER weapons would somehow work in the real world, where it's actually impossible. Also, keep ignoring the fact that Kilmonger hit a grey area with his actions, so much so that Chadwick Boseman himself said that HE was the villain in BP, not Kilmonger.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
No, im pretty sure a huge portion of the population would be taking a Nakia approach.
 

Spring-Loaded

Member
Oct 27, 2017
19,904
What, me?

Is Iron Man going to not save me because I think Killmonger and his plan is *gasp* crazy?

You'd get some side-eye from any black superhero if they heard your "Malcolm X Jr." comment—that speaks volumes about you, just FYI.


They'd still fly you to safety and away from danger on a rooftop, but they wouldn't bother checking if you could get back down
 

BeeKaine

Banned
Apr 21, 2018
736
Point out where I said, in this thread or any other, that Kilmonger's idea of arming black people with SUPER weapons would somehow work in the real world, where it's actually impossible.

The part where you tried to shit on other people for not thinking that a supervillain's plan in a superhero movie would work.

The part where you buffed your chest because you agree with an actual comicbook villain.

Also, keep ignoring the fact that Kilmonger hit a grey area with his actions

Was it the part where he killed his girlfriend because she didn't do as he said, or tried to kill the king for not doing as he said, or loudly expressed his desire to turn Wakanda into an empire with him at the helm?

Doesn't sound too grey to me. But neither is he~

so much so that Chadwick Boseman himself said that HE was the villain in BP, not Kilmonger.

Uhhhh, source?
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
Most discussion about bringing fictional universe again the real word never really work out because a lot of things are never really explained or are sacrificed for making spectacles.

Speculative fiction is hard and is full of power fantasy: look at the trash that is Drakaverse...
Or Battletech where war is less efficient that it is today.

If killmonger would appear on our earth, I would expect the earth to be fucked by starting global thermal Nuclear war between countries.

If people are killed by secret agent from a secret country, what will happen? It will be blamed on other countries and the escalation will be very very fast.

The problem is that secret country bit wouldn't last. Enough of the world knows vibranium is a thing. If a bunch of vibranium weapons suddenly appear being used in political assassinations, people are gonna' put 2 and 2 together.

(The idea the CIA was credulously accepting Wakanda's claims that Klaue stole all their near-magic metal was always goofy, especially after the events of Civil War, but some things you have to accept to get a movie going.)
 

Rogote

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,606
I can't take a person seriously who insists on putting the SAME words into my mouth that I told him not to earlier. Point out where I said, in this thread or any other, that Kilmonger's idea of arming black people with SUPER weapons would somehow work in the real world, where it's actually impossible. Also, keep ignoring the fact that Kilmonger hit a grey area with his actions, so much so that Chadwick Boseman himself said that HE was the villain in BP, not Kilmonger.

Again, wanted to kill children.
 

Geist

Prophet of Truth
Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
4,579
The technology is "more advanced" but it's no where near practical based on what's shown in BP and IW. Wakandan technology doesn't give people an overwhelming advantage in combat, so it wouldn't get shit done besides making the division of races even more defined(unless maybe they gave everyone Black Panther suits).

Wakanda has the resources and knowledge base to really make a difference in the world through peaceful ways, T'Challa has the right idea. I'd be interested to see if what would happen if Wakanda invested heavily in African-American-majority financial and industrial centers, and opened up Wakandan Universities exclusively to African-American youths (and other discriminated African minorities). Probably wouldn't fix every problem, but advanced infrastructure and the "best" educations in the world could help even the playing fields in a more tangible way than armed conflict.
 

PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
Also, keep ignoring the fact that Kilmonger hit a grey area with his actions, so much so that Chadwick Boseman himself said that HE was the villain in BP, not Kilmonger.

Killmonger was not on the grey area, he just said extremists things that sounded desirable because the world is full of racist assholes, but he still wanted to destabilize the world and put himself as the emperor of the wakandan empire he was trying to build.

BP could be concidered a "villian", being extremely generous with the word, in the sence that for 80% of the movie he was stubbornly trying to keep Wakanda isolated of the rest of the world and didn't give a shit about the injustice around him, he was selfish for most of the movie and the whole point was realizing he had to stop being so.

If BP was a villian that doesn't make Killmonger a hero, in any case he was just another villian that happened to be at odds with BP, as i always have said the one who was right was Nakia.
 

Gonzalez

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
7,679
Didn't Killmonger burn the magic power tree?

Man that dude would have been a terrible leader.
 

Purdy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,494
I wouldn't be surprised nor blame many, but it wouldn't solve anything and probably make matters worse for the majority.

Fear of a black planet. He thinks he's gonna insult me into capitulation. Just me being this indignant about a fucking movie has him this deep in his feelings. Shit is straight up comedy.

You're both beyond ridiculous and incapable of having a discussion without resorting to nonsense replies.
 

Turbo Tu-Tone

Member
Oct 27, 2017
2,951
The technology is "more advanced" but it's no where near practical based on what's shown in BP and IW. Wakandan technology doesn't give people an overwhelming advantage in combat, so it wouldn't get shit done besides making the division of races even more defined(unless maybe they gave everyone Black Panther suits).

Wakanda has the resources and knowledge base to really make a difference in the world through peaceful ways, T'Challa has the right idea. I'd be interested to see if what would happen if Wakanda invested heavily in African-American-majority financial and industrial centers, and opened up Wakandan Universities exclusively to African-American youths (and other discriminated African minorities). Probably wouldn't fix every problem, but advanced infrastructure and the "best" educations in the world could help even the playing fields in a more tangible way than armed conflict.
From the MCU standpoint, do you see the current powers-that-be, that implement the system that oppresses blacks, letting Wakanda bring up blacks first (at what could be considered an incredibly fast rate given their technology) without any pushback?
You're both beyond ridiculous and incapable of having a discussion without resorting to nonsense replies.
You can always put me on ignore.
 

PeskyToaster

Member
Oct 27, 2017
15,312
His people would never support it because all you see is a black American spending wakandan resources to help other black Americans. I can already see the Wakanda First hashtag. The way he came into he throne makes it easy to cast doubt on the legitimacy of his rule and makes violet opposition a likelier option.
 

Kinggroin

Self-requested ban
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,392
Uranus, get it?!? YOUR. ANUS.
Oooooo yeah, great idea! Give white folks in power THE reason to commit genocide. PoC, not just black Americans, would be fucked so hard.

He probably would have had a better plan in liberating them by leveraging Wakandan resources and providing boosts to opportunities in the US via education, jobs, finanical assistance etc. Maybe even provide an avenue to Wakanda citizenship.
 

Visanideth

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,771
Fear of a black planet. He thinks he's gonna insult me into capitulation. Just me being this indignant about a fucking movie has him this deep in his feelings. Shit is straight up comedy.

You do understand that if you keep insisting with this angle it's very difficult to approach the discussion without having to bring up some facts of history that are neither pleasant nor fair?


Anyways, I think Boseman's interview encapsulates very well one of the biggest dilemmas of the movie and one that Coogler tackled without hesitation. Wakanda is a power fantasy written by non-blacks in the way they imagined it would appeal to african american audiences. But it only really works on a very shallow level.

You can rejoyce in it as a kid because suddenly your team has all the best players and is on a power level that would make Vegeta quake in his boots. But when you really think about it, what is Wakanda for african americans? Another nation born on priviledge and deaf to their plight. That's why the MCU has to flip it on its head from the get go, because the idea of Wakanda watching african countries losing every war they're in and seeing african people deported while doing nothing isn't exactly heroic.

Wakanda is an african fictional country. It's not an african american fictional country. The african american audience sympathizes with Killmonger because Killmonger is one of them, while T'Challa is not. Coogler undermines Killmonger's character in wise ways, making him a villain without taking away its empathic value. His reasons are good, his methods and his goals are evil. So when he dies, T'Challa can inherit the reasons (and with them the responsability toward those people - the audience - that his fathers abandoned) and starting from them pursue better goals with nobler methods.
 

Purdy

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,494
From the MCU standpoint, do you see the current powers-that-be, that implement the system that oppresses blacks, letting Wakanda bring up blacks first (at what could be considered an incredibly fast rate given their technology) without any pushback?

You can always put me on ignore.

No thanks, ignoring things doesn't help much.
 

Trojita

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,721
You're not the only who's said this, but this sentiment hasn't been shared throughout the thread: what makes you think it would start as an all out warfare from the get go? Is it that T'Challa survived and there was still a resistance to Killmonger's rule? That was a tremendous threat to the rest of the world and would've had real consequences.

Killmonger could've ordered their spies to assassinate political leaders and cripple infrastructure of any country without even being detected. They have nanotech armor that activates at the thought of the user, untraceable communication devices that work across the globe and unsurpassed cloaking tech. The world at large doesn't even know of the coutnry's existence, and they would easily gain support around the world—it doesn't take geniuses to gain traction in a given movement.

Did you expect someone in every major city with a bullhorn advertising and just tossing laser weapons to crowds of people or something?

Whoever said above that people routinely underestimate nations of color was spot on—it even happens to fictional ones.

Killmonger's plan of smuggling the weapons out seemed haphazardly planned that I'm not confident he had a long term plan in action. He seemed to revel in causing chaos.

You think a group, a nation, that no one ever heard about would have support after news of attacks? The nanotech wasn't implied to be in wide spread use, having only been applied to suits belonging to a king. The maker of that tech and the one that would know how to possibly expand production if feasible is BP's sister.
 

Usagi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
888
Hell, if I had the Infinity Gauntlet... all our problems (PoC, that is) would be fixed in a day, though those of you that know racist friends or have racist relatives, don't be surprised if they just turn to ash all of a sudden. *snap*

PoC can be racist too so you're not just killing off white people.
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
With regards to what sort of society Erik was planning, and how he might be able to make it appeal to people, it's worth remembering how he describes it:
"The sun will never set on the Wakandan Empire."

His plan is not for oppressed peoples to have the means to revolt within their own nations and then self-determine from there once they have secured power. He wants Wakanda to be the 'guiding hand' of a global superpower, and how far that extends is somewhat vague. So the question isn't merely one of whether of not people would be willing to fight for their liberation, but to then cede such to what they may or may not regard as a foreign power, but one that would treat them preferentially. That I think is a harder sell, though it would still appeal to some. It would ultimately depend a lot on context, as has been the case for Pan-Africanism in general.


That is the main problem here. It isn't his notion of revenge or "liberating" black people. It is simply because he set himself up to be king of wakanda forever (hence burning the herbs) and if he succeeded, he would have exerted that power over most of the world. Using something empathetic as a means to excuse world domination.


Dr Martin Luther King Jr

"Violence as a way of achieving racial justice is both impractical and immoral. It is impractical because it is a descending spiral ending in destruction for all. The old law of an eye for an eye leaves everybody blind. It is immoral because it seeks to humiliate the opponent rather than win his understanding; it seeks to annihilate rather than to convert. Violence is immoral because it thrives on hatred rather than love. It destroys a community and makes brotherhood impossible. It leaves society in monologue rather than dialogue. Violence ends by defeating itself. It creates bitterness in the survivors and brutality in the destroyers."

And we can all see what happens to those people and nations that have used violence in the past, we can see how today they are powerless, and don't seek to use more violence and misinformation to maintain dominant position.... nope. They all got theirs in the end.... right? Right?!?!


The technology is "more advanced" but it's no where near practical based on what's shown in BP and IW. Wakandan technology doesn't give people an overwhelming advantage in combat, so it wouldn't get shit done besides making the division of races even more defined(unless maybe they gave everyone Black Panther suits).

Wakanda has the resources and knowledge base to really make a difference in the world through peaceful ways, T'Challa has the right idea. I'd be interested to see if what would happen if Wakanda invested heavily in African-American-majority financial and industrial centers, and opened up Wakandan Universities exclusively to African-American youths (and other discriminated African minorities). Probably wouldn't fix every problem, but advanced infrastructure and the "best" educations in the world could help even the playing fields in a more tangible way than armed conflict.

They had spears that could release energy blast powerful enough to destroy tanks. Look at how BP suit is stored and its abilities. As portrayed in the movies Wakanda tech is very practical, thin, able to be carried around easily, yet retain massive firepower. Even Stark tech is bulky by comparison. Only the nanotech puts them close and only Tony is using it.

Killmonger's plan of smuggling the weapons out seemed haphazardly planned that I'm not confident he had a long term plan in action. He seemed to revel in causing chaos.

You think a group, a nation, that no one ever heard about would have support after news of attacks? The nanotech wasn't implied to be in wide spread use, having only been applied to suits belonging to a king. The maker of that tech and the one that would know how to possibly expand production if feasible is BP's sister.

Except he mentioned it himself that he was going to use techniques taught by US military to destabilize governments. While the US can use force in many situations, they do not. When we hear about declassified ops, US gov is pretty sneaky about it.
 
Last edited:

PaddingtonDidntDoIt

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
May 8, 2018
698
Thor: " these are human afairs. i want no part in this"

Hulk: "Hulk only act tough when Thanos not here. Is Thanos here?"

Hulk is a pussy.