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Kelly Marie Tran has deleted her Instagram posts due harassment she has received after TLJ (Read OP)
- Thread starter ZattMurdock
- Start date
Aww, I just tried commenting thoughtfully on the matter. :-(
I mean, it's harassment of another human being. You don't really need an example of people who dislike something in a civil way to know that the harassers are assholes and nutcases.
Not always no, much of the time it's just an excuse to get another dig on her character in.
Most of the time there's no mention of the critique being used to highlight you can be critical and decent, it's just another excuse to let everyone know.
I mean, we all know how this works...
I think it's important for people to call out their own (their own, in this case, being those who disliked TLJ / Rose).
It would. It would be consistent. They handed me a ban warning for a thread similar to the example you used with a guy being harassed on twitter after insulting someone on twitter. I was clear that harassment is never justified as well.
Maybe that's the difference -- I tend to assume positive intent unless there's a post history to indicate otherwise.
Oh sorry, wasn't directed at you (didn't even read your post) is just that the last page is another proof that you can't have any meaningful discussion in this forum when the words "The Last Jedi" are involved
If you've been in any SW related thread it's quite apparent the hate of TLJ and Rose is something many people feel the need to express at any available opportunity.
I don't have much to contribute to the current running discussion and I'm not going to read 31 pages of posts on this.
Just wanted to say that I thought her character was one of the best in the movie. Her story was poignant and human in a film that was otherwise unable to craft realistic, believable characters and character motivations. The actress also did a wonderful job selling that character.
At the time of the movie, I was sad to see how many people trashed the character. A lot of it seemed to be anger that she took away focus from other more well liked characters. I guess I'm not surprised that this sentiment turned into long running harassment.
That's really unfortunate to see.
Just wanted to say that I thought her character was one of the best in the movie. Her story was poignant and human in a film that was otherwise unable to craft realistic, believable characters and character motivations. The actress also did a wonderful job selling that character.
At the time of the movie, I was sad to see how many people trashed the character. A lot of it seemed to be anger that she took away focus from other more well liked characters. I guess I'm not surprised that this sentiment turned into long running harassment.
That's really unfortunate to see.
User banned (72 hours): Peddling "forced representation" conspiracy theories.
But her character WAS useless to the movie. It just felt to me like Disney needed more "representation" of a certain demographic. How funny would it have been if Finn and Chewie went on this mission while not understanding each other? It would have been great.
Now for this to actually "upset people", thats another story. But we should still be able to criticize something
Stating on a forum that you didn't like a movie doesn't mean you hated that character specifically or hate the actress. You need to also divorce the people that say they didn't like the movie from those that specifically mention hate of the character Rose and the actress' work. You can even say you hate a movie but think one of the supporting actresses did a great job.
It's always important to introduce normalcy to topics like this. There is often rhetoric used against people perceived to not publicly disagree with the actions of others in association.
Hey, if they do that on their way to defending KMT and condemning her harassers, then great, because in the end, TLJ is simply a movie, Rose is a character, but KMT's harassers need to be put down by everyone.
So because she got treats (which is unacceptable) we should suddenly not be allowed to criticize a movie or its characters?
Maybe I'm a cynic, but I'd actually imagine a significant amount of people like to come to threads like these to express their critique and cover it with a "but obviously X is bad".
And it's not like the history of discussion surrounding this movie makes that implausible in any way...
Not the thread to go into detail like you did, no.
This thread is pathetic to an unbelievable degree, not allowed to say you don't like a character in a film now...
Look at you, assuming the operation of another's mind based your own personal bias and preconceived notions.
You are projecting.
Her character's arc would have likely been plotted out way before casting calls. It didn't matter that she was Asian, who ever was in that role regardless of skin color or gender would have been in a side plot that ended in failure if that was what was written out beforehand. She also saved Finn, even if what she did looked like it could have killed the two of them, which isn't useless.
I mean, there's about one new thread about why TLJ supposedly sucks where you can do that?
You can do that in one of the five billion TLJ threads.
No, that person literally went into a needlessly detailed explanation of why her character sucked in a thread about her harassment.
No assumptions made.
If course you are, but there's a time and place for it.
Then whats the point of this thread? To point out that harassment is bad and unacceptable? Great, super useful.
Im giving you a reasons why people might have gotten upset, just like how everyone hated Locke in Halo5.
People are passionate about what they love and some go too far. This has be reality since forever. If you cant go into detail then this thread is pointless.
As someone who didn't really like what they did with her character, I think it's a bit off topic to make your criticism the big focus of your post here because the focus of the thread is her being harassed. You can certainly mention your perspective on the movie as part of calling out the shitbags who are going after her IRL, but your post was really about hashing out the argument of why her character was bad.
I might end up agreeing with you by the time the thread is over. :)
It's not pointless at all, we're talking about the semi-drive by posts that are
"I hated the character, but harassment is bad".
Go into detail about it, that'd be great.
What assumption is being made when that post, as clear as day, is indicative of what we're talking about. It's oretty sad that even with this obvious example you see no problem with it.
Well i dont feel like it is. Just because this has happened, it doesnt change how people felt about a movie or character and it doesnt make them criminals if they didnt like one.
People also hated Liv Tylers character in LOTR. They felt she was added for no good reason but to add a love story that even wasnt part of the book. Drove the fans mad. But social media was not as big as it is now so a lot of actors honestly got it lucky then cause "fans" couldnt directly sent them "hate messages" before. Before people wrote fan letters to studios and most actors never saw the hate mail a character they portrayed would have received. Now they do, first hand.
Times have changed. Thats why a lot of actors dont handle their social media handles themselves, they hire companies to do it. To avoid the stress like this. This didnt start yesterday and it wont end tomorrow.
There's a time and place for these discussions, while it's probably good to highlight the fact critique can be made without being a malicious piece of misogynistic shit and there's a lot of discussion to be had there, this is not the thread to go into detail on why her character is bad.
This thread is about a woman being harassed online for who she is, her decision to have less of a social media profile, and the meaning and implications of such a decision.
This thread isn't about you, or your opinions of pop-culture creations. By posting otherwise, you are asserting that your opinions on creative works have a privilege to be heard in this thread as much as, or even over and above the woman's responding to being harassed.
People aren't realizing that the primary purpose of their own posts is to assert their moral certitude or superiority not only over the harassers, but over others' opinions of Star Wars. If you want to assert your moral certitude or superiority over these harassers and show your support, and discuss how that can be channeled into making these situations better, that is very on-topic for this thread.
If you want to assert your moral certitude of your opinions of Star Wars, or superiority over others' opinions of Star Wars, think about doing it in another thread - if for no other reason because it is simply a different topic.
This thread isn't about you, or your opinions of pop-culture creations. By posting otherwise, you are asserting that your opinions on creative works have a privilege to be heard in this thread as much as, or even over and above the woman's responding to being harassed.
People aren't realizing that the primary purpose of their own posts is to assert their moral certitude or superiority not only over the harassers, but over others' opinions of Star Wars. If you want to assert your moral certitude or superiority over these harassers and show your support, and discuss how that can be channeled into making these situations better, that is very on-topic for this thread.
If you want to assert your moral certitude of your opinions of Star Wars, or superiority over others' opinions of Star Wars, think about doing it in another thread - if for no other reason because it is simply a different topic.
Youre missing the point, again. Her character is exactly why it happened. Yes im sure racism is also a factor, but then that would also apply to a female Jedi, or her potential black love interest wouldnt it? You think those guys didn't get hate too? You think those things are any different? Yet i hear no hate stories about Daisy or John. Why?
They didnt just seek her out cause, why not. Her character has everything to do with this.
No, a large part of the hate is misogyny and racism and the fact this thread exists is the purest example of that.
"It's inconsiderate to do this specific thing in this specific place."
"DONT TELL ME I CAN NEVER DO THAT EVER AGAIN ANYWHERE, YOU FASCIST!"
"DONT TELL ME I CAN NEVER DO THAT EVER AGAIN ANYWHERE, YOU FASCIST!"
I notice you using the terms "criticize" and "harassment" interchangeably here. IMO that's not really a fair way of characterizing the situation. Criticism can be fair and constructive and is about someone's work -- as a manager of people and someone who has been through a lot in my career, I can tell you it's actually a very important tool in helping someone grow, and it is expected of me to provide it. Harassment, negging someone unconstructively, extoling the shortcomings of their personal qualities, mocking them -- that's an entirely different category of activity. And unlike criticism, which I am expected to provide, harassment would get me fired.
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Or maybe it's an unimportant topic to the thread at hand and serves literally no purpose to the conversation, which is about cyber bullying?
"I don't like her character but she shouldn't be harassed" is a half measure. It's a disrespectful way to approach a situation that has led to suicide in the past.
It's harassment when it's what you hear constantly, for everything that you do, and can't escape it. Like the reason she left Instagram and why this thread exists.
As far as we are aware/informed, Daisy Ridley has already bounced from either IG, Twitter, or social media. Wonder why
I imagine Jon Boyega has had absolute vitriol on SM purely for having the audacity to be black and a prominent lead in a Star Wars film.
How other actors are dealing with harassment isn't entirely relevant and it would be naive to think others haven't suffered hate/abuse
How does "I don't like her character but she shouldn't be harassed" serve any more or less of a purpose than "Wow, that's horrible, this shouldn't have happened"?
None of these comments serve any "purpose" because Kelly isn't reading the thread. What does tone policing the responses to the thread actually serve, if you recognize that?
We all know the difference between the two.
The thing is there's a time and a place for discussing both things. While stating "critique of the movie is fine, but harassment is bad" is a fine comment, stuff like "her character was terrible, but fans shouldn't go this far" isn't the same thing.
The former is talking about the topic at hand, the latter is using the chance to voice your actual critique again when it's not necessary to do so here. At the very least why kick someone when they're down? Even if she never reads this thread that's not a very pleasant approach.
Exactly my point. This is a video game discussion forum primarily, the high standard of discourse that these posters think exists here...doesn't. Yes, saying "I don't like her character but harassment is bad" is a lazy post, but so fucking what?
The entire thread has been derailed to be talking about the issue of these kind of posts, wouldn't it be better to just accept those posts and continue to try and have a discussion about the 'real' issues at hand?
Not really; the quantity of the criticism doesn't make it harassment. She's an actor with experience, that's part of the gig, and no matter how much a performance was disliked, you can always do better next time. It's the nature of the comments themselves. Anecdotally, someone said they saw a YouTube where the person in it kept referring to KMT as a "fat Asian bitch." That's not criticism -- you can't do anything with that that's constructive, all you can learn from it is that there is an asshole out there in the world.
Anyway, I completely understand the time/place argument for when to offer criticism that many are making, I just don't think redefining criticism as harassment is constructive.
I think most here do, but take a careful look at the poster I'm replying to.
Yes, quantity is considered when it comes to harassment. It like you've never heard of restraining orders before and how one gets one.
It's more like you're being intentionally obtuse about a point that isn't really up for debate -- that there is a difference between criticism and harassment. Others here are even trying in good faith to say it isn't necessary to discuss this because everyone understands this difference. Unfortunately it doesn't appear that you do.
Take it from someone who has been in KMT's place and commented on it:
https://abcnews.go.com/Entertainmen...s-twitter-online-harassment/story?id=40698459
This thread makes for truly baffling reading.
What thread do you think you're posting in exactly?
What thread do you think you're posting in exactly?
Speaking of obtuse, you can read the Wikipedia definition of harassment :
So when you say there's no criteria for quantity, you are categorically wrong and are hypocritically trying to change the definition of harassment so you don't have to feel bad about feeling like a shitty person. If you're going to criticize others for the verbiage being used, make sure you know what you're talking about.
Your criticism of her character is wack. She's wholly responsible for the development of Finn from beginning to the end of the film.
Also what do your grievances of a film have to do at all with the context of this thread lmfao this is about harassment, stop trying to justify someone being harassed by pantomiming your bullshit whining over a film
Make a thread about her character if you feel so pressed about your opinion of a film being attacked
Are you capable of formulating complete thoughts? Are you saying these posts aren't disruptive? I don't know because you're trying to save face by inserting a vague gotcha without any substance behind it. At least you seem to acknowledge your error in claiming quantity of criticism is a valid criteria for determining certain actions are harassment. Awky.
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This thread reminds me of how the japanese actress had to apologize for voicing Rose on Tales Of Zesteria. Even though all she did was voicing a character. But she had to apologize because the Tales "fan" hated her character...
Not liking a character is fine, but harassing an actor/actress for doing her/his job will never be acceptable. And anyone that does it is no different than any other type of harraser.
Not liking a character is fine, but harassing an actor/actress for doing her/his job will never be acceptable. And anyone that does it is no different than any other type of harraser.