That's the same rhetoric I hear from people blaming Muslims for not saying enough against terrorism.
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Kelly Marie Tran has deleted her Instagram posts due harassment she has received after TLJ (Read OP)
- Thread starter ZattMurdock
- Start date
I must admit. I never thought about it that way but fandoms really tend to look like religions in the end.
And as with religions, some people can do some really stupid and awfull things in the name of it sometimes.
So since OT Star Wars is now "holy", you can't do anything with it that doesn't follow the original material or "fail" to it. And if you dare do that, wether it's true or not, your fault or not, prepare to be harrased and attacked to the end of days... Fucking ridiculous... For some of them, it's like they would burn Kathleen Kennedy on a stake if they could...
Ze fuck is wrong with this world...
User warned: Insulting posters
Speaking of toxic Star Wars fans....
Man, fuck all of this. I'm fucking embarrassed to ever have thought of myself as a nerd. It's disgusting, revolting to think that these pissant shitfucks have a platform. And not just the worst of them, people everywhere who think it's ok for them to be free of consideration for how their words impact people, and of needing to shut the fuck up. This shit is everywhere. Even this forum accrues concentrated pockets of ridiculous, embarrassing and entitled shitposting disguised as "venting" or ""criticism"". People need to get some fucking perspective.
Just fuck everything. I refuse to participate in these discussions anymore.
Just fuck everything. I refuse to participate in these discussions anymore.
"You're really overreacting. The guy made a hair joke parodying the criticism. It's tone deaf at worst." - sums it up nicely.
The post is hardly disgusting is it. What a world we live in where you get called disgusting for not liking a hair style in a series that has famously featured some ridiculous hair styles in the past.
The thread isn't about that, it's about a real person being harassed. That's the disgusting part.
User banned (3 days): inflammatory comparisons. Star Wars fans are not like protected identities or oppressed minorities.
You are 100% correct but you are also fighting a losing battle there.
Look, if you saw someone who is the same race or nationality as me committed a terrible crime and you came to me saying something like "I see one of yours is in trouble again" I'd be so angry. I'd be annoyed that you want to use my nationality or race against me and I'd be mad that you want to shame me for something that someone else has done.
Problem is that SO MANY people want to do stuff like that. A ridiculous number of people just can't keep themselves away from that kind of thing.
In 2018 we've got to a stage where public expressions of racism are frowned upon but it doesn't matter because so many people still hold those views. They just don't express them.
So they look for other ways to do things. Are you a Star Wars fan? I am. "Oh, I see one of yours was harassing women on the Internet". As if it's MY problem. As if I'm somehow responsible. As if I have some connection to the people doing this sh!t other than "we kind of like the same things, maybe".
You can probably see it with football fans in the UK. If there's a 10 person fight at a Liverpool match with 50k+ plus people in attendance you'll get Manchester United fans saying "see Liverpool supporters are violent scumbags who can't behave at a football match". It's not racism or anything serious like that but it has similar roots.
There's "Us" and there's "Them" and we're more than happy to find the absolute worst of "Them" with the goal of using it as a stick to beat the normal ones. There's a certain type of person who is ALWAYS looking for someone to bully but their bullying takes the form of trying to associate decent people with terrible people based on some arbitrary commonality.
I would say that NOBODY on Reset Era is even remotely in favor or in support of what these trolls have done but you STILL have people in these threads implying that Reset Era is full of people who are just A-OK with this kind of racism and harassment.
The people doing this "Star Wars fans are the worst" thing would have been your everyday racists back in the day. They've just found a way to engage in the same behavior but the stakes are much, much, lower so it's kind of seen as acceptable. Luckily for everyone it's not a big deal as who REALLY gives a crap about Star Wars fandom anyway.
So even when we have an example of legitimate racism focusing itself on this young lady there are people who just use that as an excuse to target "Star Wars Fans". You think the;s people give a crap about Kelly Marie Tran? They don't. They are just f*cking delighted to have a stick to beat "fandom" with.
Post # 4 was "Embarrassing and disgusting. Fans are always the worst part of anything".
Post # 5 was "The Star Wars fandom really is the worst in existence."
These folks don't care about the issue. They just can't wait to bash someone who doesn't deserve it. Sure, you can point out that these trolls are total pricks and awful human beings and you can feel legitimate bad about what they have put her through.
For me the two most obvious reactions here are to condemn the trolls and to feel sympathy for the victim and to feel outrage about what they've done. Within 30 minutes or so of the OP going up we have jumped on to "Star Wars Fans are the worst" though so you have to wonder what some people are thinking.
If folks are not going to condemn the specific people doing this and they're not going to express sympathy for the victim but they ARE going to try and associate regular folks with a problem they neither created nor supported then what the hell is going on there?
I stand by my original post (that what I quoted was disgusting). Instead of just offering sympathy, the poster made a shitty joke about the physical appearance of Rose, something that literally drive Tran off of the internet (and also saying that those messages should be directed at her hair stylist).
That poster since clarified though and even if I don't like the explanation much, at least there was an attempt to elaborate. We since dropped the conversation but yet you feel the need to dig it back up/shit up the thread by calling me toxic for having a completely valid opinion, alright.
No. That's not likely to happen.
Honestly I'd just say "nah, I'm not a Star Wars fan" and go about my day. I've no interest in policing trolls on the internet and no interest in defending myself as if I am somehow connected to those trolls.
I'll just say "I'm not really into Star Wars" just as I say "I never heard of Gamergate" when I'm asked about it in real life.
It's worrying to me that so many people who are self styled "good guys" actually think that publicly shaming and mocking people over things they are loosely associated with it just fine behavior.
You aren't one of the good ones. You're not as toxic as some, I'll give you that. You are still a toxic individual if you think "the rhetoric should continue until all Star Wars fans feel ashamed and are universally mocked, publicly" is a good approach.
Hey guys. What if we fought bullying with more bullying? Great idea. Let's see how that plays out...
It's not my job to police maladapted idiots just because I get a little joy from the franchise they happen use as an excuse to spew their bile like a sprinkler.
I'm pretty sure I didn't adopt a litter of furious nerds by sitting my ass in a dark room and thinking "I like this movie."
Why don't you do something about these people?
Also, the more I think about it, the more annoyed I get at your nasty, mean-spirited disregard for a massive and diverse group of people who happen to like the same thing as a vocal minority of bullies. Star Wars fans are not the alt-right. Simmer down and stop trying to pin scarlet letters on everyone who ever liked Star Wars.
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That WAS the attempt haha
I got beef with TLJ as I'm sure many do (I'm just not nearly as indignant about it, the movie was still an 7-8 in my books); but I can dislike something without having it tread into going online to harass someone about it which is an action that frenzied fans took to become imbeciles online and effectively forced actresses* offline.... this sort of behaviour just perplexes me. I've never taken a movie, a game, or anything so personally (especially for something I had no part in creating) to attack someone online or anywhere. So the question to me is: What inspires dipshit "fans" to take it to an 11 like that? I've been a crazy-stupid-fan about things, but if something is bad I just get disappointed...not rage-out over the actress. Is this a male majority thing? Is it older, long-time fans? Is it just idiots on the net with too much free time/anonymity?
When it comes to the 'hierarchy of movie making'; I feel like actors get the most flack for....really the least amount of input into a thing. They're the talent, but if a movie is bad, more often I find it's the writer and director are way more to blame.... but again, I don't go online and talk shit to them and bully them off social media. I don't know who thinks that's appropriate, and frankly, why so so so so fucking many do it.
(oh PS imma girl)
* Any of the male actors getting this much fan bullshit on their feed?
Calling out Star Wars fans on their bullshit - yes, not ALL fans, but a very healthy, vocal faction that has managed to run this woman off the internet - is the same as racism? Jesus Christ. I mean, good fucking lord. This is so tone deaf and self-centered.
You also don't get to decide why people are responding to this with so much contempt. The idea that people are actual secret racists that have sublimated their racism into targeting Star Wars fans is absolutely absurd and so delusional.
I'm a Star Wars fan. I recognize the bullshit that other Star Wars fans can do and I've distanced myself from that world because it's so violent and hateful. I need to call it out when I see it and condemn it when it's reached the point where someone awesome like Tran is completely overwhelmed with that toxic garbage.
Part of life is taking responsibility for shit. Have you really not seen this happening around you? Can you recognize the trend in Star Wars fandom and fandom in general? Stop being defensive for two minutes. Drop your personal baggage for two minutes. Can you really not look around you and see the absolute garbage heap that is a large section of the Star Wars online community - yes, not EVERY SINGLE ONE, but tons of people who have made it their personal mission to shit on the women and PoC who were involved in The Last Jedi, who have used MRA and alt-right rhetoric and tactics, seeing TLJ as some sort of "SJW campaign" to destroy their beloved Star Wars? Have you really not seen that? If you've seen it and you ignore it because you think it doesn't reflect on you, you're part of the problem. If you haven't seen it, open your eyes.
Listen, just read this thing I posted earlier:
I think this is a pretty depressing outlook to take. You're advocating for the universal shaming of Star Wars fans based on a lack of understanding about what the Star Wars community has been doing to improve this issue. For example, creators such as directors, producers, actors, authors, podcast hosts have all been talking about how this kind of harassment isn't ok.
I love Star Wars and I love some of the fan base but for what ever reason The Last Jedi has turned so many Star Wars fans insane. I was not a huge fan of Rose but I by no means hated the character and even if someone does why harass anyone about it? Some internet fan communities bring the worst out of certain people. It is the whole you ruined my childhood and my fanfic level expectations of what I wanted out of a Star Wars sequel that is stupid to me.
I have seen lots of Star Wars fans doing something about it on Twitter.
The people who were shit-posting on her Instagram are not Star Wars fans. They're fans of being angry about stuff and complaining online.
These are actual Star Wars fans, with millions more like them at home.
Over-generalizations help no one.
These are actual Star Wars fans, with millions more like them at home.
Over-generalizations help no one.
It's sad that it's taken this amount of outright death threats for the fandom to move past the "vocal minority" and "not ALL fans" handwaving, which as you can see made up the bulk of replies to my initial post in here, but I'm glad that creators and (some) of the fanbase have seemingly reached a breaking point with the toxic environment that's been created and are actively pushing back. We'll see if it sticks.
Sorry, but they are. You should reconcile with that fact.
Everyone is open to their own opinion on the movie and her character. If they like her great, if they dont thats fine also.
However, she is not Rose in real life. She seems a great person and a talented actress. The people who are sending her threats are trolls and nothing more. The real question is how is this getting cracked down on. Not if these are star wars fans or not
However, she is not Rose in real life. She seems a great person and a talented actress. The people who are sending her threats are trolls and nothing more. The real question is how is this getting cracked down on. Not if these are star wars fans or not
I mean, I get what you're saying, but they are Star Wars fans. They're just shitty ones.
Well the bullies who hate on her appearance and ethnicity are losers anyways so it doesn't matter if they are fans or not. They aren't welcome to any star wars related exhibitions going forward.
I know some of these people. Yea there is some scum bags here, just because they were at a Star Wars convention doesn't change things.
They are shitty people period. That they are star wars fans or gamergaters or die hard trump supporters is mostly irrelevant to the core fact that they are shitty people who have been given the freedom to shit on other people by unmoderated social platforms.
All that needs to change is for Facebook, YouTube and the like to actually start moderating their users instead of chasing the bullshit ideal of absolute libertarian free speech. Civility is not an intrinsic human trait, it's something taught and enforced.
All that needs to change is for Facebook, YouTube and the like to actually start moderating their users instead of chasing the bullshit ideal of absolute libertarian free speech. Civility is not an intrinsic human trait, it's something taught and enforced.
I fucking hate these little dipshits that get to sit on their dumb asses and treat people like this from behind their screens. Fuck every single one of them.
Hard to tell. Most of them, likely yes. Some probably just joined in because they're angry people.
My point: I'd argue you stop being a fan of something when your primary engagement with the community is shit-posting, harassment etc. Your purpose is not to celebrate Star Wars. Or games. It's driven by an entirely different agenda. They're fans of how things were, their collective childhoods, outdated social hierarchies in media, whatever.
Fans of Star Wars celebrate Star Wars. That's what qualifies them as fans.
These are Star Wars fans:
Watch the video. It's 90 seconds. Should all those happy kids and families be shamed into some bizarre form of internet penance? Really though?
No, what they should do is go post this whole post that you just wrote and direct it at the bad fans instead. We are not your enemy. You have a responsibility to police your own group.
User Banned (3 days): Trolling, disingenuous argument, derailing the thread
You're basically saying there can't be toxicity in Star Wars fandom, because conveniently for you, they stop being counted as fans when they become toxic.
Posting a video of good fans is meaningless
Because people keep deleting it from my quoted post, and it's a visually intrinsic aid to this discussion. Balance, there must be.
Btw by denying toxicity within the fandom and abusing a video of good fans to do so... you yourself are being kinda toxic... Damn sorry bro you're not a Star Wars fan anymore.
Why does this video keep being posted?
Are you suggesting that the adults that smile and and stand/sit in awe of the moments in these videos and cosplaying by day simply can't be some of the same people writing vicious posts and participating in hurtful attacks by night?
The internet is full of people who change their character when they get an opportunity to be anonymous. Welcome to the last 20 years.
Stop posting this video. It makes you guys look deliberately disingenuous at best; embryonic thinkers at worst. Neither is enviable.
yyyyyyyyep.
I bet you at least two of those people in that video dropped a n bomb or voted trump, let's be real. Just cuz you smile and dress up and quote Star Wars doesnt make you a good person
Why is it convenient for me?
I'm responding to the extremism in this thread: suggestions that every single fan of Star Wars should do a walk of shame for the actions of what I'd argue are not really fans at all.
They may like Star Wars, but it's their hate that defines them. Some of them may also be fans of lasagna. Star Wars, haters, and lasagna are not mutually exclusive.
It's OK not to agree. You should believe what you feel is right, of course.
Sorry dude. I'm honestly only interested in getting the POV of Star Wars fans.
A convenient way to avoid addressing the issue, really. Saying 'Well, those aren't REALLY fans' does absolutely nothing towards fixing the issue, nor does anyone on the outside buy the excuse. It merely makes you feel better.
Quite possible. You can assume the worst. I'll assume the best.
The point; neither of us know for sure. Maybe I'm less willing to write off everyone. And this is the crux of the wider discussion. We got there!
1. It's the most recent video pulled from Star Wars' official video channel. They look like they're happy, celebrating. I didn't see any abuse?
2. I agree there is toxicity that grows from fandom. But in spite of it, not intrinsic to the theme. Star Wars is about hope, balance, and the little guys winning. If you're not a fan of those themes, I'd argue you're a fan in name only.
Look when you go bad Star Wars fans aren't real Star Wars fans... here are real Star Wars fans you're abusing the the video period.
You just keep making excuses for why the bad ones don't count.
Fuck why am I still arguing with someone who isn't a Star Wars fan.