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WrenchNinja

Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,733
Canada
*harassment

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/31/sports/nfl-cheerleaders.html#click=https://t.co/5XFPiQ1lj9

Several N.F.L. teams determined cheerleading programs had a scarcity problem on game days. If cheerleaders were on the sideline dancing, none were available to serve as scantily clad hostesses who could mingle with fans high up in the cheap seats or in the luxury suites, where teams catered to big-money customers.

To address that shortcoming, some teams created a different kind of cheerleading team — one whose members did not do any cheering or require any dance training. They were hired mainly for their appearance. Their visits with male fans, the teams believed, produced a better game-day experience, akin to the approach of the Hooters restaurant chain.

In interviews with a dozen women who have worked for N.F.L. teams as noncheering cheerleaders and six others who had direct knowledge of the noncheering squads, they described minimum-wage jobs in which harassment and groping were common, particularly because the women were required to be on the front lines of partying fans. The fans had no reason to believe these women were not actual cheerleaders because the women often dressed exactly like the cheerleaders dancing on the field or nearly the same.

"It's a really big secret, and now you know about it," said Jackie Chambers, 33, a model with more than a decade of experience who worked as a Houston Texans noncheering cheerleader last season. "But teams don't want fans to know about it. All of the cheerleaders are supposed to blend in with each other."

But the N.F.L. has veered in the opposite direction, led by the Redskins, who were among the pioneers of using attractive women to ostensibly work as cheerleaders but, as one former ambassador put, actually serve as "eye candy" for male fans.

Around the early-to-mid 2000s, the Redskins began hiring women as ambassadors from the group of women who didn't make the cheerleading squad, and they still do today. The tryouts haven't changed much, if at all. In an extra judging session, those women were required, like pageant contestants, to walk in bikinis in front of suite holders and sponsors who held score sheets. They also had to answer several questions that showed that, as the Redskins' website stated, they had "great public relations skills."


"The Redskins wanted to come up with extra ways to make money, so they dreamed up the idea of the ambassadors," said one woman who was one. "We were made to look almost exactly like cheerleaders, but we weren't a member of that society. We didn't get the perks of dancing. We were just low-paid, underappreciated, exploited moneymakers in a huge moneymaking scheme."

She added: "We wore low-cut tops with cutouts and your butt cheeks would be sticking out the back. That's how they sell the suites."

The ambassadors were an inexpensive way to monetize the cheerleader concept. They weren't invited on the annual calendar shoot held on an exotic beach. They didn't require hours of practice to perfect their routines or multiple uniforms for game-day dances. While the cheerleaders' white boots had rhinestone-encrusted heels, the ambassadors had to buy the rhinestones and glue them on to their own boots during a night billed as "team bonding."

In interviews with six former Redskins ambassadors, the women described the job as being more of a sexualized saleswoman than a cheerleader.

More in the article. Sorry for the typo, harassment fit in the post preview but didnt show up when I posted.
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,043
You know they don't give a fuck about players, you can only imagine what they think of cheerleaders
 

Border

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
14,859
I don't really understand this.

The stadiums seat 70,000 people. Do you think hiring two-dozen girls to be oogled and harassed by drunks is going to have any appreciable effect on ticket sales or attendence?
 

Slayven

Never read a comic in his life
Moderator
Oct 25, 2017
93,043
I don't really understand this.

The stadiums seat 70,000 people. Do you think hiring two-dozen girls to be oogled and harassed by drunks is going to have any appreciable effect on ticket sales or attendence?
You are not thinking like a rich out of touch old dude
 

canseesea

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,012
Yeah but the NFL didn't want to hire women for their drunk fans to harass, they really didn't but Donald Trump just wouldn't let it go so they had to.
 

The Albatross

Member
Oct 25, 2017
38,978
In interviews with a dozen women who have worked for N.F.L. teams as noncheering cheerleaders and six others who had direct knowledge of the noncheering squads, they described minimum-wage jobs in which harassment and groping were common, particularly because the women were required to be on the front lines of partying fans. The fans had no reason to believe these women were not actual cheerleaders because the women often dressed exactly like the cheerleaders dancing on the field or nearly the same.

This is fucking ridiculous and dangerous.

I don't think I've ever seen this at Patriots games, then again I've never set in the luxury boxes. I think I would have noticed scantily glad good looking women walking around at Pats games in the stands, etc.

But, the danger here is that you're taking young women and throwing them into a lounge without handlers or security, and basically askign them to walk around, chat, and "Blend in" ... which is going to very obviously lead to fucking drunk rich assholes in the box acting inappropriately, when this attractive woman walks up to them and starts talking to them because it's her job but there's no pretense that it's her job to the patron.

Fucked up and exploitative. Like, cheer leaders in general is weird to me in professional sports, but I've known women who were NFL cheerleaders who used it as a major stepping stone in their careers into media, modeling, entertainment, etc. THey liked the competitive aspect of it in amateur sports and then professional cheering was considered an elite group and a good career move despite low pay and challenging part-time hours.

So professional cheering is always a little weird to me as a grown ass man, but this is just... simply exploitative because it's low pay, likely not to lead to anything better, and it's putting young women into dangerous situations that the teams are probably not equipped to handle.
 

okayfrog

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,968
I don't really understand this.

The stadiums seat 70,000 people. Do you think hiring two-dozen girls to be oogled and harassed by drunks is going to have any appreciable effect on ticket sales or attendence?
By the sounds of it, these cheerleaders aren't meant to appeal to the majority of those fans. They're there to appeal to the minority that have suite season tickets -- the big money folk.
 
Oct 25, 2017
5,846
I don't really understand this.

The stadiums seat 70,000 people. Do you think hiring two-dozen girls to be oogled and harassed by drunks is going to have any appreciable effect on ticket sales or attendence?

They only need to influence the bigger spenders, sounds like.

The dichotomy the article outlines is kind of weird though, because the cheerleaders in general are being judged by their appearances and their obvious function is to appeal to straight male audiences. It's hard to see how this is any difference save they are paid worse for it, and they use the possibility of becoming a full cheerleader to get these people to do it.

Also, I really recommend people watch the Redskins video linked in the article. It's hilarious and sad in equal measure, and definitely shows the mentality behind why they've hired these women.
 
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Vire

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
5,591
NFL is destined to fail sooner rather than later. The upcoming generation will not tolerate this foolishness. As soon as my fathers generation passes - it's a wrap for the NFL.

For me...I'll continue to enjoy the NBA.
 

Hokahey

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,288
I'm confused. Every sports team in every league has attractive women walk around the concourses in team gear working as some kind of team "ambassador." People saying they've never seen this aren't paying attention. I've been to 100+ pro football games at numerous stadiums and there are always "cheerleaders" out walking around and posing for pictures. At baseball games they're throwing tshirts in to the crowd. And they've always been volunteers or paid jack shit. It's meant almost as an internship for modeling resumes .

Now, I'm not saying any of that is right or ok, but as someone that has not only been to a TON of pro sporting events but also served as a fan ambassador of sorts for the (then) St. Louis Rams, this is really, really, really old news.
 

Raptomex

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,249
I'm confused. Every sports team in every league has attractive women walk around the concourses in team gear working as some kind of team "ambassador." People saying they've never seen this aren't paying attention. I've been to 100+ pro football games at numerous stadiums and there are always "cheerleaders" out walking around and posing for pictures. At baseball games they're throwing tshirts in to the crowd. And they've always been volunteers or paid jack shit. It's meant almost as an internship for modeling resumes .

Now, I'm not saying any of that is right or ok, but as someone that has not only been to a TON of pro sporting events but also served as a fan ambassador of sorts for the (then) St. Louis Rams, this is really, really, really old news.
People want to finally do something about it.
 

Omegasquash

Member
Oct 31, 2017
6,161
NFL is destined to fail sooner rather than later. The upcoming generation will not tolerate this foolishness. As soon as my fathers generation passes - it's a wrap for the NFL.

For me...I'll continue to enjoy the NBA.

Never underestimate what that generation can do to the one after, but I agree that their fanbase will decrease with time, given their actions. Actions like THESE continue to add to the mountain of "fucking WHAT?" that we know about.
 

Arc

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
4,508
NFL is destined to fail sooner rather than later. The upcoming generation will not tolerate this foolishness. As soon as my fathers generation passes - it's a wrap for the NFL.

For me...I'll continue to enjoy the NBA.

NBA teams deploy plenty of eye candy as well. Same with the NHL as well actually.

And no, if anything does the NFL in it will be head injuries. The millenial bro culture (ie their main target demo) is all for this.
 
Oct 28, 2017
6,119
User Banned (1 Week): Victim-blaming, excusing sexual harassment.
These women are signing up for this job. Assuming it's not a bait and switch, and it almost undoubtedly isn't, this isn't even a problem. This is not harassment. These women consent to that shit by virtue of the job. We all know it will happen. They do too.
 

Deleted member 2102

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
692
These women are signing up for this job. Assuming it's not a bait and switch, and it almost undoubtedly isn't, this isn't even a problem. This is not harassment. These women consent to that shit by virtue of the job. We all know it will happen. They do too.
This is some real victim blaming shit. Unwanted groping and other forms of sexual harassment is harassment. Literally. By definition. Nobody consents to that by signing up to be a hype person. We don't "all know it will happen," and that doesn't make it acceptable regardless. This is misogynistic exploitation being perpetuated by a massive organization.
 

krae_man

Master of Balan Wonderworld
Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,595
If the non cheering cheerleaders are paid hourly and making minimum wage, they might be making more then the regular cheerleaders. IIRC the cheering cheerleaders got paid a flat fee per game and got nothing for practice, public appearances etc.

Considering the billions the league makes, both types of cheerleaders should be paid way, way better. Not to mention protected from harassment.
 

Addie

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,686
DFW
These women are signing up for this job. Assuming it's not a bait and switch, and it almost undoubtedly isn't, this isn't even a problem. This is not harassment. These women consent to that shit by virtue of the job. We all know it will happen. They do too.

Yes, it's likely that the women knew what they signed up for entailed risks — my ex was a "brand ambassador." She had "appropriate attire regulations," and they all knew how to defuse altercations with (usually drunk) male customers. She could also generally rely on shop owners to kick out rowdy customers. Her company lead was a woman, and their standing rule was to simply leave in the event harassment occurred.

She was 100% eye candy and entirely too smart for the job, and she knew that harassment would probably occur — but that doesn't make it okay.

This situation is that to an exponential degree.

It's one thing to expect creepy old men to leer and even grope; it's another thing entirely to not have a company that supports you, doesn't exploit you (beyond using you as eye candy), and shuts that shit down fast.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
Them having to buy and glue on their own rhinestones in some "team building exercise" is the both hilarious and depressing.
 

Violence Jack

Drive-in Mutant
Member
Oct 25, 2017
41,679
I've seen the way cheerleaders get treated in the luxury boxes, and it's disgusting. Old, rich white men feeling up young women who just grit their teeth and bare it because they don't want to lose their jobs or get their reputations ruined. I'd honestly be alright if pro teams just did away with cheerleaders, or do like college and have cheerleaders of both genders while paying them a full time wage.
 

Deleted member 11039

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,109
"While the cheerleaders' white boots had rhinestone-encrusted heels, the ambassadors had to buy the rhinestones and glue them on to their own boots during a night billed as "team bonding."

Sheesh
 

Mesoian

▲ Legend ▲
Member
Oct 28, 2017
26,427
You know they don't give a fuck about players, you can only imagine what they think of cheerleaders
Real talk, when the cheerleaders picketed for better pay and benefits, I thought the NFL would shut down the entire program. I was AMAZED by the fact that they got half of what they asked for. Literally shocked.

These women are signing up for this job. Assuming it's not a bait and switch, and it almost undoubtedly isn't, this isn't even a problem. This is not harassment. These women consent to that shit by virtue of the job. We all know it will happen. They do too.

You're not wrong.

But much like people who "chose" to work at chili's or McDonalds or the Dollar store, they're still entitled to a basic way of living. "If you don't like it, quit" isn't something that should be said when actually reasonable accommodations are something that is being withheld for no other reason than the head office not caring.
 

see5harp

Banned
Oct 31, 2017
4,435
Last I checked actual cheerleaders are very lowly paid and don't have a lot of benefits either. The one I knew dancing for the niners was a full time pharmacist so she obviously didn't need the money. It was all about prestige and getting to dance as a side gig for fun.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354
I was ridiculed in the last thread about cheerleading (the one about "everyone who wants to be a cheerleader must be a cheerleader) That I got it all wrong, that cheerleading is not sexualizing young woman.

"It is a serious sport, they are athletes!"
"The film portrayal of cheerleading is the farthest from the truth"
"All girls want to be cheerleaders because they like the sport and not the social standing"

OK tell me another woman-sport who directs their serious athletes to play hostess with old men.
Disgusting.

There are so many better sports for girls/women but cheerleading has god-like status in school and is the best funded.
 

Rodney McKay

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,186
To my knowledge even official "real" cheerleaders are extremely underpaid. I recall hearing that the NFL considers their jobs internships or something like that to get them modeling experience, so they don't even get paid minimum wage or something.

If these hostess cheerleaders get paid even less than that, AND have to put up with drunk assholes, ooph. :/
 

Furiousone

Member
Oct 29, 2017
554
Good on Virginia McCaskey(Bears owner) doing away with this antiquated charade years ago. It doesn't seem to negatively impact attendance or the fan experience for that matter. Shocker.
 

Hassel

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,363
Its really not a secret or frankly any different that cheerleaders.
Ok your a cheerleader who does not dance. It really does not change the job much at all.
Cheerleaders are paid to be hot and get looked at, this really is not different. Dancing is just part of the over all package of looking good for fans.

If you want to argue that the, "Cheerleaders are paid to be hot and get looked at" is not a good thing, so be it.

But to say that exposing "Junior non dancing cheerleaders" as a thing is a gotcha or scalded, I would disagree.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
I was ridiculed in the last thread about cheerleading (the one about "everyone who wants to be a cheerleader must be a cheerleader) That I got it all wrong, that cheerleading is not sexualizing young woman.

"It is a serious sport, they are athletes!"
"The film portrayal of cheerleading is the farthest from the truth"
"All girls want to be cheerleaders because they like the sport and not the social standing"

OK tell me another woman-sport who directs their serious athletes to play hostess with old men.
Disgusting.

There are so many better sports for girls/women but cheerleading has god-like status in school and is the best funded.

These people aren't cheerleaders.

This has nothing to do with college or high school cheerleading so your statements in the other thread are null.
 

Zutroy

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,592
I listened to a good podcast about this within the last month (think it might have been the daily?)

The girls aren't allowed to interact with the players, and if the player tries to socialise with them at all they have to forcably end it or it's their fault. They have to sell so many calendars pre-game or if they fail they're not allowed to cheer, and their wage is so bad and they have so many expenses they have to pay for themselves that they're lucky if the make a few hundred bucks a month for more than full time work when you add in all the training.
 

Kyougar

Cute Animal Whisperer
Member
Nov 3, 2017
9,354
These people aren't cheerleaders.

This has nothing to do with college or high school cheerleading so your statements in the other thread are null.

And these professional cheerleaders have nothing to do with college and high school cheerleading? They don't just suddenly come out of nowhere. Most of them were HS/College cheerleaders before.

And that these women are not cheerleaders doesn't negate the point. They replace current cheerleaders in their function to be hostesses for old rich men. So, cheerleaders did these jobs before.
 

TheMango55

Banned
Nov 1, 2017
5,788
And these professional cheerleaders have nothing to do with college and high school cheerleading? They don't just suddenly come out of nowhere. Most of them were HS/College cheerleaders before.

And that these women are not cheerleaders doesn't negate the point. They replace current cheerleaders in their function to be hostesses for old rich men. So, cheerleaders did these jobs before.

A lot of pro wrestlers probably wrestled in high school. That doesn't make them related in anything besides name.