Whataboutism is transparent when typed out. People can be upset about both you know....
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30-year-old man is being sued by his parents because he refuses to leave home
- Thread starter Syriel
- Start date
Whataboutism is transparent when typed out. People can be upset about both you know....
I have seen people who reply to this with "Guess ill kill myself then. "
To some, the idea of being a "wage slave" is a fate worse than death.
They aren't upset about both though otherwise the situation wouldn't be as laughable as it is right know.
Trust me, as someone who dealt with clinical and suicidal depression for the bulk of 7 years stemming in decent part from a philosophical and existential dismay over adulthood (including work), Camus makes a hell of an argument. Camus and other absurdists (such as Douglas Adams, for one) were instrumental in my recovery.
Yeah, maybe you should think about how you're impacting your parents' lives negatively, you enormous prick.
User Warned: Personal attack.
I agree I pity the parents. 9 months of hard work might as well have a char siew
Mihos already answered you on the specifics of this (~5%), which is a far cry from the abandonment apocalypse you seem to think is going on here, but my comments were more directed to your insistence that all these parents must hate their children and vice versa. It's absurd, as I and others have tried to explain to you. I don't doubt that some parents are more hard line than others, but generally the idea is as I've said: to teach the kid about real world responsibilities.
You keep going here ("being selfish and not value family members over silly money and vacations ") when the reasonable motivations have been explained by myself and others. If you want to keep clamping your hands over your ears and holding onto some evil fantasy because it makes you feel superior or something, you're welcome to, but it is silly.
My mom gave me the 18 cut off and I left at 17. If I had needed to come home it would have been there, but the things I wanted (college, travel, independence to do what I wanted, etc.) were up to me as an adult to achieve on my own. Being responsible for myself was (obviously) very motivating. I applied for scholarships, worked, put myself through college, got my own place with roommates, etc. I made reasonable choices with money because I had so little, and I chased every dream I had because my mother taught me that the world was open if I was willing to fight for it. And you know what? She was right. Was it hard sometimes? Sure. But was it instrumental in where I am now and what I've achieved? Absolutely. I don't hate my mom at all. We have a great relationship. Any money she has (house, savings, etc.) I hope she spends having a ball in her twilight years. She deserves it. And when she gets too old to manage things my sister and I will share the time and care of her.
Then...find a job you love, whatever the pay is? Or a job you respect, or a job you do because it helps others. Or join a care service like the Peace Corps that covers your upkeep and volunteer your time? You have tons of choices. You don't need much if your wants out of life are simple. You certainly seem to like the things others work on and produce (anime, media, food, shelter), so do something. Your position has nothing to do with shitty capitalism--it's all on you.
Yes, but people have tried to help him over the years but he doesn't want it. What he wants is for someone to cater to his every need, essentially he wants to be a child again. Some in his family have given up on him but others have said they would let him stay with them if he got a job, even just a part-time job. You can't really help someone who isn't interested in it.
There's a difference between enjoyable and satisfying. When your young a lot of entry level jobs are simply dull and not enjoyable because you're at the bottom of the food chain. When you get older it's often things in the sphere of that workplace where the enjoyment comes from.
Look, man, from a philosophical standpoint I'm with you. I hate working, I hate that it's necessary, there's nothing I'd rather have than 100% free time all the time. But it's impossible. You have to work. Even in the purest hunter-gatherer state of nature scenario you still gotta get off your ass and find food. Maybe, in the decently distant future, everything can be 100% automated and that could actually be an option. It isn't and it won't be in our lifetimes. Tough cookies, but them's the breaks. I'd never tell anyone to find a job they love because that's basically impossible. Just find one you don't hate, and if you hate it later then find another one you don't hate. Like it or not, you participate in the economy and that necessitates some degree of income generation. Even if you were to go off the grid and separate yourself from the economy you still have to feed yourself and that requires work.
That sounds like it's more on you than the jobs out there. What exactly have you tried so far?
I hated:
Moving furniture
Pizza Hut
Hostessing
Waitressing
Catering
Childcare
I liked:
Simulation work
Political office job
Locksmithing
Teaching ESL
Social media coordinator
Groundskeeper
I loved:
Horseback trail guide
Animal care
Baking
Writing books
Video game localization
Comic book copyeditor
EDIT to add: The "no matter the pay" bit was for him specifically since he seems to claim to hate capitalism and all its trappings. Money means nothing to him, but he has basic needs/wants (food, shelter, games), so even a lower paying one would help him achieve or get closer to this, especially if he's just going to loaf at home.
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left at 17? What? Like you you literally left home before being 18?
I don't even understand how you can leave home at 17. Obviously the school system and society must be different. Here in Italy: until 19 years old for most people, including me, but then there are a few who might lose a year and finish at 20 years (and there were 1 or 2 people like this out of 20 people in my class so they finished at 20 even though it's rare) you are in high school; during this time have to be in school roughly 5 hours/day Mon-Sat, plus on afternoon you have roughly 2-3 hours per day of homework (and in the 6-8 weeks prior to the final high school exams in summer, when you are 19, you easily have to study and prepare for 30 hours per week making it nearly impossible to work in the mean time). Work might be possible on the last year of school (and before the preparation period for the final high school exam in summer) when you are 18-19, maybe 4-5 hours per week I guess, but what job would you do since you could devote 4-5 hours per week and stop in early summer-late spring for the final high school exam)? It would have to be something on the evenings or only weekends (and it would be hard because you have homeworks also on weekends).
When I was at school, for example the school wouldn't even let me leave school without a parent's permission even if I just was 18 years old (even 19 for what matters; but they asked the same to the 20 years old who missed a year). There were a lot of debate and most schools didn't allow for example children to sign themselves even if they had 18 years; they still neded parents' signature for everything (leaving early, skipping school day and so on) even if 18, because from their giuridical point of view the school's responsibility towards parents who entrust their children to a school, trumped the fact of being above age according to law. At least this was the case until 13 years ago (when I finished high school), don't know if things changed. I have sources, but they are in italian so it would be useless to post them here, and quite off topic (since they are specific to italy and it's clear 90% of users here are from usa or english-speaking countries).
Here they won't let you rent a place until 18, and I can ensure that 90% of places will never let you rent a place on your own, if you are so young, without a written warranty from parents (which they must sign in person and means that they will pay for you in case you don't and is a legal document). At best you might find rooms in shared flats when you are 19-20, but I don't know of any homeowner that would rent you at a 19 years old without a warranty document (guaranteing they will pay for you in case you are late) from a parent with a permanent job.
Also in italy for example there have been a few judge sentences (i remember reading on the newspaper two different cases about this) over the last few years, where parents are responsible until the son has reached economical independence. So they literally can't forcefully kick their kid out until he has reached economical independence or prove that they willfully refuse jobs that would otherwise fit their attitudes/aspirations. Personally I agree with those judges because parenting and caring about children never stops and 18 is not a magical number, but I understand that we are in a different culture, so I wont' argue about this anymore. We have different opinions.
Anyway I don't even know of any 18-20 years old with a stable job (which would earn enough to pay rent). The only 20 year old that work full time I know earns 600-700 euro, which would barely be enough for renting a single room (not a flat) in city center and bills (but this does exclude all other expenses like food and so on). And I'm sorry I understand sharing bathrooms and kitchen when I'm a student, but not sharing when I work full time. If I have to work full time, I prefer staying 5-6 years more in my parent's home while working until I can afford a place on my own. The only time you should be sharing kitchen and bathrooms with 4-5 strangers is when you are away in another city for uni; no sense sharing a flat if I can stay with my parents (and don't plan to change city) for 5-6 years just until I can afford a whole house or flat on my own.
It's what everyone does here, and a good parent should want the best for their children even if above age, which means enjoying their sons for just 4-5 more years in their house (if they can afford obviously) so that the children can afford a house on their own in the future (unless he wants to move out of his own choice early) and maybe save something for retirement so they won't live in poverty.
P.S.: in italy just to give an exmaple of how you don't stop being dependent on your family at 18, sons/daughters (of any age) can be dependent for tax reasons to their parents at any age (as long as they earn under a treshold amount) and parents get a lot of discounts on their taxes (not sure how to translate the correct italian term in english sorry). I know a 35 year old person who lives with their mother and the mother enjoy a tax benefit (and it's not small) from it, because he earns under that threshold. I also don't know any person under 25 years old who isn't dependant on their parent on their tax declaration (and this also if they live outside their parent's home during uni). Most people start earn enough to not be dependent for the tax declaration in their late 20s.
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The idea always scared the shit out of me. School is mostly just a wage slave factory and the only people who get to escape the this boring life are smart kids, athletic kids, creative kids or just fucking rich kids.
Most of those kids still end up working.
The reality is that people in this thread have the causal link between nihilistic depression and lack of work ethic backwards. Getting employment was a big part of getting over my feelings of depression. It's not even about paying for things, it's about feeling useful and part of society.
Often it's because they don't view those people as working in the same "village" as them (even though they absolutely do). Almost like an aristocratic class that's beyond their reach or concern/reproach.
Meanwhile the people that are working "shoulder to shoulder" with them are the ones that receive first dibs on their anger because there's a feeling of betrayal there, even though their feats of finesse are incomparable in their scope.
All by design I guess. Pretty funny shit.
Oh i agree with that. But the idea scared me as a kid. It was not the life i wanted. And it's sad to see my son sitting in those classes not doing anything he really enjoys. I can only hope he ends up doing something he really loves. But i'm also functioning much better when i can be socially relevant.
The fucking avatar lmaoooo
God I have to save this stupid ass post wheww
You're not a selfish prick, just frustrated and afraid. There's a lot of fun to be had even if half of our time is spent doing things other people want us to do. My first job was depressing and soul-sucking, but I wouldn't say I ever became a husk. There are breaks in frustration that are just nice to be around. Watching someone dance, listening to live music, sharing food with someone, making someone smile, commiserating with someone who agrees how fucked up things are. Those moments feel good. They are few and far between, but they make getting out of the house worth it to me. That said I don't really care if you want to stay at home all the time as it doesn't affect me, so you do you.
I did. I graduated high school at 17 and went to college straight after. I couldn't afford the school I wanted so I attended a state school I could (they're cheaper if you live in-state). Most colleges (or many at least, I believe) require you to live on campus for the first two(?) years, so that was my 'housing'. Honestly, that was the most annoyingly expensive part of it for me. They required you to get a meal plan too that was more suited to a starving athlete than someone trying to be as frugal as possible. I took out ~7k in loans to cover my housing/first two years because I didn't qualify for financial aid because of my parents (even though they didn't contribute to my school at all), applied for a gazillion scholarships, and worked part-time. I worked when I was in high school too, though. In the middle of this my parents went bankrupt and suddenly I qualified for financial aid and had money to spare. I used that towards sharing an apartment with roommates and doing study abroad so that I'd have a more attractive 'resume' for diplomatic jobs (my course of study). During my last year I applied for and interviewed for the JET Programme (teaching in Japan) to secure myself a post-college job. I was accepted and moved over there to work for three years, the pay from which I used to pay off my loans in full.
Basically, I scraped, saved, and finagled my way though the five years following my graduation from high school. I did have to take a year off in the middle of college because I was scared to take out any more loans, and boy was that ever rough, but I think I learned more in that hell-ish year off than at any other time--namely, what I actually needed vs. what I wanted. It's served me pretty well in life since.
Anyway, your situation (and your country's) is completely different. Staying at home makes sense because of the economic climate in addition to cultural reasons. Nothing wrong with that. For the US and other Western countries, though, I think the idea that leaving the nest is beneficial for maturity/what you do as an adult makes sense too (for some), or, as long as the kid is moving forward somehow (school, work, etc.), then staying at home is perfectly reasonable as well.
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Imagine not being able to enjoy your 'golden years' (retirement) because you must support someone like you.
On the bright side, you are only 22. You have so much time to fix your attitude and turn things around still. Learn some skills.
Actually not. I heard in a presentation once that this outcome should not be an argument against UBI for several reasons:
People that just don't work and get money from the government already exist in the current system (but is more expensive then UBI-system because of all the bureaucracy) . So if they don't want to work, they shouldn't. They however support the society by buying stuff (like videogames) with their UBI money (and support video game companies). But they can't afford a nice lifestyle because the UBI is quite low. So if they want to have more stuff, they will start to do some work. And if not, that's also ok
When you decide to become a parent you take on the responsibility for that life. It's up to you to guide and teach your offspring the ways of the world. Even if luck is not on your side and everything bad that could happen to hinder this does happen it's still a huge responsibility you took on that you can't just throw away.
Responsibility goes both ways. At some point the child needs to become responsible for themselves, then for the parents when they grow old.
Developmental disorders is a difficult thing though because if someone is profoundly autistic where does the responsibility fall? This question keeps me up at night I must admit because I have a brother with developmental difficulties.
I mean people in the Usa must retire really earlier than us italians or have children really earlier than us.
Because for example I'm 31 and my parents are retiring just now in the next autumn/late summer (but they started working much earlier than most people so they have more years of work to obtain earlier the state pension). When people retire here, their sons are 30-35, not 20-30 so even if children are staying a bit longer (until their late 20s) they are not really taking away any retirement years.
My grandparents spent their golden years visiting their children and relatives and staying at home relaxing so often (at least from my parent's stories they told me) or waking up whenever they want, walking around town, going to the free beach nearby, and occasional vacation twice per year of a week or so (mostly inside the country, with just one or two trips abroad) until they nedded to be taken care of by their children, I struggle to understand these "golden years" thing. What do parents do that they woulnd't be able to do with a son in their home as long as he shares the bill and is autonomous? Do they go batshit crazy and waste all their savings with trips around the world, giving them up to scams or spending at casinos? If I had a close relative that spends the whole family money in casinos I would everything to help him stop it, maybe with the help of the whole family. Especially if a I saw a parent wasting all their money, I would intervene, because here by law I will be forced by law to give him a check and taking care of him if he won't have any money left when old. So ok enjoying their golden years, but without excess, because the parent will become a responsability (both ethically and by law) when he becomes even just partially not self-sufficient (even if he doesn't want).
So I don't udnerstandthis golden years thing that parents can't do if there is a son in their home. the mortgage on the house is going to be the same, even if a child lives there and it's not going away even if the child moves out.
Who would even have enough money during retirement to travel all year around even if child wasn't around, here at best you would have money for 2-3 months (and I'm being generous) vacation per year, since pensions are usually lower than the salary they had while working.
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Oh I wasn't using it as an argument against UBI, I just mean some people will. Of course those same people would always argue against welfare of any kind, I just don't think we should give them more ammo. I also personally believe that you should do something productive with your life if you are physically capable of doing so. If someone doesn't want to work in the traditional sense that is fine, but they should go out and volunteer at a homeless shelter or something. Even creating something would be ok too. Write a book or learn to build tables or something. Do something else besides mindless consumption. Its fine if people disagree with this, just like its fine for me to think that doing nothing but playing video games all day is a rather sad and selfish life, especially when they are entirely dependent on someone else.
Sidestepping the discussion again here, but how did you manage to gather such a varied work history? Expansive network? Living in a big city? Saying yes to everything?
Only asking cus I'm graduating soon and I'm gonna need that sort of hustle!
You sound like a mopey teenager who just discovered philosophy. It's time to grow up. Your parents would do you a lot of good by pushing you out of the house now, if they haven't already.
Bingo. There are two parts to the contribution; you contribute to the system, helping everyone get on, move forward, prosper... AND the social system contributes to you, helping you get on, move forward and prosper... You have to feel like you're contributing and participating in the world around you or... well, or basically, bad things happen to YOU. Emotionally, psychologically, physically... You can contribute by being a worker bee and a cog in the machine or by being a radical apple-cart tipper/spanner-in-the-works, but you have to be contributing some how or it eats your soul... Isolation, frustration, impotence... these things kill people...
This whole idea that somehow parents are "responsible" for supporting their adult children is anathema to me... My dad left his home and hitch-hiked to Flin Flon to work in the mine when he was 15... My mom left home to go to nursing school when she was 17... Neither ever went back. My parents kicked me out of the house when I was 17 (I'd managed to get my punk ass kicked out of high school the week before), so I went off to be a rock star ended up in jail 11 years after that... but I eventually sorted out my shit. My brother joined the army before he could get kicked out after he flunked out of high school (18)... It had it's ups and downs but I never thought it was my parent's responsibility to take care of my ne'er-do-well butt. I love my mom and we have a great relationship (my father died shortly after I left home)...
My children were all told from a very early age that they could remain at home rent free until they completed one graduate degree, but after that they'd have six months to get out. We provided shelter, clothing, food and tuition; everything else was on them. Two of the three graduated and one had to be asked to leave after she flunked out of college twice (she preferred to sit in her room playing video games)... all are happy, successful, well-adjusted adults now... different people learn different ways, and sometimes you just have to let them figure it out for themselves; I honestly think a lot of the current generation is just a little too comfortable, a little too privileged... When I read people talking about work they "like", I just shake my head... like or not it's work, it's a contract where someone gives you money and you give them your time... you need money for the things you like/want/need in life... I don't understand what's so damned difficult about that equation for some, but the "real world" is a pretty humbling and convincing teacher; I lived on the streets for about 18 months, and I can tell you that any job that can provide a clean bed to sleep in and a couple regular meals a day looks a lot more meaningful after you've lived without any of that for a while...
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Ah I gotcha. You're right. People will use it as counter-argument. And I'm also with you that I wish that no one has such a lifestyle
Well, let's be clear here-- not to pick on you, but I've seen some misuse of the term due to the post we've seen; wage slavery implies more than having a job-- it's the position of continual precarity resulting from being unable to quit a job for anything more than the briefest periods of time. Wage slavery is that state where you fucking loathe your job, but you're paycheck to paycheck and you can't quit. Where the job is so physically demanding, emotionally draining, and time-consuming that you don't have the capacity to carve out the right space to search for something better. It's real-- and it might be the best someone who finds themselves in a NEET position has to look forward to.
Not that I'm endorsing the lifestyle of choice of consequently choosing to do nothing around the house. Doing something part-time and helping with the bills would probably be the most balanced solution if you can't find something better-- and it would help to leave someone in a situation where they have a nest egg when the parents are gone. Working on developing personal skills they can work on marketing from there would at least... help them better themselves as a human if nothing else from there.
Gotta be honest, being 25 with a Master's degree while unemployed, reading this story fills me with all sorts of mixed feelings. I plainly stand on the side of the parents, just because you shouldn't be forced to live with someone you don't want to live with even if they are your son. I'm just goddamn terrified I'll end up still being here in my 30's and I super don't want that. I also feel... incredibly weird about that person being offered a job out of the blue. I didn't know that was a possibility. I haven't yet countersued my parents and showed up on Alex Jones-- so I feel... I know I'm not entitled to anything, I shouldn't aspire to getting that kind of help in the first place, and envy is a toxic position, but part of me feels jealous. Kinda wish I could get a hand myself, yunno? I don't really get an allowance (since it goes towards paying the minimum off my loans) and I'm applying to jobs and stuff. It feels so strange to see this shit unfold. It also feels strange to see posts from people saying they made it on their own at the age of 17 with the shirt off their backs, as well as posts about people who are happy about having precisely fuck-all job wise and feeling happy about that. I wonder where I end up falling between the two sides of the spectrum. I'm terrified of work-- in part because I'm mentally ill and I'm worried about being taken advantage of because of it or failing spectacularly and ruining my life. But I still want income because college loans are gonna do that slowly and surely anyway. I just... it would be encouraging to know if I'm even on the right path or if I'm telling myself lies about that.
I don't understand this American concept of having to leave home at 18 or 22 (post college) and be on your own. It's so weird to me. As I mentioned before, in my culture the only reasons for leaving home post 18 are: You are getting married, you are shacking up with your significant other, you are moving away either for job, school, whatever. It's not uncommon for unmarried children to still live at home in their 30's if they are not married or living with their other.
Put it this way, my brother is a VP at a media company and he makes bank. He lived at home until he was around 32 years old when he went to live with his girlfriend whom he planned to marry (and he did).
That being said, everyone in the household is expected to help out if they remain in the household post college once they enter the workforce. House expenses are treated as a pool everyone that is an adult puts into. But even those that move for whatever reason, it circles back. That is why it is very rare to see someone at a group home for the elderly in Spanish culture. Maybe it is a Mediterranean thing, because my wife who is Italian lived at home until we moved in together and I know none of the elderly in her family are in a home and she flat out told me that her mother will live with us if she ever gets to old to take care of herself one day and her husband passes.
I know I lived on and off at my parent's home until I moved in with my girlfriend (now wife). She lived with her mom until we moved in together too.
I am sure other countries are similar in values to America but I am only pinpointing America because it's the one I am familiar with since this is where I moved to when I was a kid. So yeah, while I agree that the 30 year old should be working and helping out around the house - I am not debating that - serious question: What is it with American's and giving children the boot at 18/22 from the house?
Put it this way, my brother is a VP at a media company and he makes bank. He lived at home until he was around 32 years old when he went to live with his girlfriend whom he planned to marry (and he did).
That being said, everyone in the household is expected to help out if they remain in the household post college once they enter the workforce. House expenses are treated as a pool everyone that is an adult puts into. But even those that move for whatever reason, it circles back. That is why it is very rare to see someone at a group home for the elderly in Spanish culture. Maybe it is a Mediterranean thing, because my wife who is Italian lived at home until we moved in together and I know none of the elderly in her family are in a home and she flat out told me that her mother will live with us if she ever gets to old to take care of herself one day and her husband passes.
I know I lived on and off at my parent's home until I moved in with my girlfriend (now wife). She lived with her mom until we moved in together too.
I am sure other countries are similar in values to America but I am only pinpointing America because it's the one I am familiar with since this is where I moved to when I was a kid. So yeah, while I agree that the 30 year old should be working and helping out around the house - I am not debating that - serious question: What is it with American's and giving children the boot at 18/22 from the house?
Yeah, as an Italian man, exact same thoughts. Same here none I know has been sent to an elder home, and I fully expect my parent to move in the same house when they won't be able to take care of themselves, maybe with a part-time nurse to help or they go to live with other family members which is their preference (with me visiting/staying regularly), depending if I will be married or not.
Here even if you have a job you still live in the same home. Only if you find a really good job (permanent and very well paid above national average salary) in another city you move out (or go to uni but then you usually come back if you don't find a job in a few months from the end of uni). Or if you are getting married then you move out.
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No lies detected.
I'm going to graduate in 2 semesters and to be totally honest, I'm not looking forward to my future of working to payoff w/e expenses I incur during the remainder of my life.
It's the same here in Taiwan. If you're a single adult, parents are more likely to ask that you NOT move out. People usually only leave home when they get married and start their own families, and even then sometimes the couple will spend a year or two living at the husband's parents' home. Collectivist mindset vs. high emphasis on individualism, I suppose.
In austria they literally have a system in place for adults to who live with their parents to move into a goverment owned apartment for FREE.
For many Americans, adulthood is about gaining independence, standing on your own two feet, and becoming a more resourceful and capable person from those struggles. Living with your parents where they're still coddling when you have the means otherwise is usually looked down upon, especially when it comes to dating at a certain age. Nobody wants to plan their intimate time around their parents schedule.
1) Needing money
- I took every job on offer no matter how shitty it was. Judging from recent threads everyone seems to think they deserve/are going to land their dream job immediately or that some stuff is beneath them (this recent prevailing idea that a job MUST be emotionally or spiritually satisfying to be acceptable), but that's just not realistic, especially when you're just starting out. I highly recommend taking 'undesirable' jobs because you'll learn a lot, they're always in demand, and if you work your way up even a little they seem to be really well paid (septic cleaning, garbage man, sewer inspector, etc.). But I don't recommend moving furniture. My back still aches. :(
2) Apply for everything
- Be bold! I just threw my hat in the ring for anything that sounded even remotely interesting, experience or no. Did I know how to ride a horse? Sort of. Was I remotely qualified to take groups of people up a mountain? Probably not. I had no problem mucking stalls or grooming, so all I had to do was the interview. The 'interview' was getting on the horse and them waving a plastic bag in its face. It bolted (of course), but I stayed on. HIRED.
3) Some networking
- Make friends with everyone, work hard, and some relationships will bear unexpected fruit.
I mean, it's already been explained ad nauseam on these last couple of pages...
Exactly. And yeah to the bolded. Perhaps things are changing, but a lack of (perceived) ambition, independence, and maturity is a huge turn off for many. There are always exceptions, I'm sure, but a guy living at home with his parents is not the most desirable of situations in the US (West?).
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Yeah, it is a bit of a different culture. I've been living on my own since I was 15 (technically, 16 - but I was a foreign exchange student in Japan between these birthdays and came home to not being allowed to live with my grandparents/guardians). They expected me to pay rent from me the moment that I moved in with them after my mother (their daughter) passed away. It's a different scenario altogether (not common, to my knowledge). But since it's the only experience I know, the idea of living with your family until you're 30+ (I'm currently 34) sounds absolutely foreign to me. At the same time, I know a fair amount of coworkers who have only moved out under the circumstances you're talking about (and they're either from India, France, or Italy). I see others doing it but it just doesn't resonate with me.
For the guy who's 30 years old and was being sued by his parents, I honestly thought this may have been one of my high school friends (since he's lived with his parents forever and doesn't pay rent or anything) - until I heard a child was involved. The way he goes about explaining himself is a bit too far "out of the way". He's vague for the sake of being vague and doesn't really have any definitive plans or processes going on. Again, something weird for me. I'm so used to planning 5-10 steps ahead, with various branches in case XYZ or ABC fails me. That's primarily due to having been alone and struggled for the first 5-6 years I was on my own. You get used to planning and coming up with backup plans and "in case this occurs..." scenarios.
I actually don't think too many parents do this, as much as their children wanting independence. While I was living on my own before I even graduated high school, most of my friends were more eager to "live that lifestyle" without realizing that I was working two jobs and going to school to make sure I could pay bills. Gone were the days of sitting in front of my computer or console for 6-10 hours a day playing video games. In were the days of sitting in an air-conditioned box turning on gas pumps and cleaning dishes in the back of a restaurant. This was kind of the component that some people seemed to overlook when I was growing up - nowadays, it's more understood and that's where some intimidation of being independent originates. It's scary to accept that there may be a short duration of your life that you're fixed into the live to work mentality and the work to live is once you get everything established.
A few of my friends living at home still are in the mindset of "I don't want to be one of those people who have to work 12 hours a day and come home exhausted." Yet, I work about 12-18 hours a day and don't really have to (I've been used to working like this for the last decade) - it doesn't bother me as much as some of these guys think it should. Though, they tend to make fun of me and jab at the fact that I'm not going out drinking every other day .. or that I'm not showing up for their 48-hour hackathon/LAN parties (hosted at their parent's house). I don't give them any grief because I know the world isn't always so easy to jump right into and deal with the day to day stuff. Personally (and I do mean personally), I think it becomes more challenging the longer you wait - except for in some cultures where you save up and plan for your future (while living with your family). The friends I speak of have $0 in savings since they always upgrade consoles/PCs and buy every single game known to man (without the income to support this habit).
Wait, what? 12-18 hours a day? This is legal? What country is this? I'm shocked. In my country no employer can make someone work more than 13 hours (and this is an exception for very few jobs), for 90% of works out there here you can't work more than 8 per day, with maybe a few hours of extra time per week (but there is a limit to extra time).
i think it's terrible to work so much. I don't mean to be confrontational, but how can you work so much? You are literally spending every single moment of your life working.
Man I hope you have crazy paid holidays (I don't know like 2-3 months per year?) and/ or super generous paid parental leaves if you work so much. I don't think I would work 10 hours per day everyday even if they paid me twice or three times my current salary. I mean doing more than 40 hours per week, with 3-4 hours of extra time per week regularly (nearly every week) would be pushing it if salary is not good enough/above average.
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Abruptly putting a person with mental health issues and probably a lack of at least some vital life skills in a position of homelessness is definitely a perfect solution! Can't even start to imagine what could ever go south.
Oh wait, I've actually had a NEET internet friend proceed to make an almost successful suicide attempt within a week of being kicked out at 26, before being institutionalized for a prolonged period of time.
Good ol' sink-or-swim, eh?
Ah ok didn't understand this, that it was two jobs. I mean if it was just one job, this would have seriously been borderline slavery.
I'm in the United States. I work one job. I'm salaried. If you make over a certain amount (salaried), you are exempt from overtime laws (federally and in the state that I'm in). I believe if you bring home less than $900 a week (base salary, not net salary after taxes) you are required to be paid overtime. As my salary is higher than this, my company expects me to be willing to work as long as my body can sustain itself (often the case is that my day starts at 2AM and doesn't end until 6-8PM).
Well, there are benefits to this position. I may work like crazy but I get 8 weeks off a year (can take 4 weeks off at a time) and I get federal holidays off. I have unlimited sick leave (doesn't count towards vacation/holiday). I do not get paid overtime for days that I work on holidays (I've done this when I was in a different position in the same company). Salaried is salaried. I make the same if I work 2 hours a day or 18 hours a day. The only difference is that I'd be fired for working 2 hours a day. But when I take vacations, I take pretty decent vacations. Either up to the mountains where I am unreachable by technology (once a year) or down at the beach house where I can read on the beach for 4-5 hours a day. Work hard, play hard. :)
Whoa, I commend your work ethic, but 12-18 hours a day would have me looking for a position with a better work/life balance. I'm salaried as well but if my employer expected me to work that much, I'd look elsewhere. They clearly are understaffed.