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andrespi

Member
Oct 27, 2017
88
Why do you assume children are treated like strangers after 18 if they expected to be independent at that age? I can't think of one single anecdotal example where that has happened.
Well, I mean not supporting a person (within reason of course) means is not real family you care about ( at least in my country) and is a stranger to you; I think it's one of the best examples/definitions you can give of being a stranger vs being family you care.

I mean asking rent is something you would ask a stranger not a family member. Let's make an example: would you charge your close family members for taking care of their pet or house while they are away or to have them as guests in your house for some time?

Think about it: It's not like if relatives (like aunts and uncles) ask to come to my home as guests for a few months, I ask them the rent or to share bills (just as I wouldn't ask my son if I had one). It's something I would ask a stranger not a close family member. Just as if you need a temporary accommodation (even for silly reasons and not emergencies), your sister or brother shouldn't charge you with rent but help you to reciprocate the favours you did (and just to help each other since you are family and it should make you feel well to help each others since you are close). A personal example: relatives had my parent as guest for some time in their home while he was there vacation because it just makes you feel well to help a family member and more importantly stay around them or eating with them. In my country charging rent or even expenses (within reason and personal financial possibilities) means you don't consider them family and consider them strangers. So why wouldn't you do the same to your children?

Shouldn't you teach your children that taking care and helping family (be sons or sisters and brothers) and loved ones is more important than money and rent? So that they will remember that when they will have to take care of you when you are 75-80 years old, sacrificing money, maybe jobs, to keep an old father/mother in their home and who knows what else they will have to do (using paid vacations to stay with you and give up a summer trip, paying nurses and so on).

What is the point of having or building a family if you don't even really want them around and don't care if they will live better or worse than you after you will die (which is the point of helping them and not making them pay rent when they are young and should instead be saving to avoid poverty during retirement and maybe having saved enough between 18-26/27 years old so that one day they will be able to have their own children one day and carry on the family name and be happier); i mean trying everything you can so that your children will be happy and will have a better life (financially) than you after you die is all that matters in a family; making sure that your children will be happy, they will never have to worry about finances and hopefully stay and support you when you are super old to reciprocate (and possibly remember you after you die for all the help you gave them, including the rent and money he saved thanks to you when he was in need while he was a 20 something needed to have a better life for him and the next generation).

I can't even fathom to imagine how american grandparents must treat their grandchildren, if they treat their sons and daughters like this (kicking them out in cold blood and not supporting them as soon as they turn 18 like it was a magical date)? Do grandparents charge/ask payment to their sons for taking care of nephews if they stay and eat with them?

I mean when I was a children I stayed nearly a month or two every summer for 8-10 years at my grandparent's home and every grandparent would/should be glad to have them. I mean they often even complained that we didn't even come enough and always complained we lived too far. And same happens for many families here in Italy.

Grandparents happy to being around their grandchildren and having them as guests in their home during summer (especially when they live far away during the rest of the year). I mean if parents don't even want their own children, I can't even fathom to imagine how they must treat their grandchildren or maybe they even ask for payment to take care of them or having them around on a constant basis. I'm seriously appalled/terrified by a society made of people tha prefer enjoying their "golden years" (after their children turn 18) instead of being happy to have them around (and I don't see how one excludes the other anyway).
 
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NewDonkStrong

Banned
Nov 7, 2017
1,990
I hate how playing videogames as an adult is one of the stereotypes of being a loser.

Everyone i heard joke about this loser said something about him playing videogames, not watching tv, sports, or espn... no, just videogames.

If you're unemployed, male, 18-35, live with parents, then there's a 99.9% chance that you're playing video games all day with a couple masturbation breaks.
 

CreepingFear

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
16,766
In my 20's, I was that guy who didn't contribute or have a job or make enough money, while living with my mom. Now, I am in my 30's, but I pay half of rent, food, utilities, etc. California is so expensive, that if I moved out, I would have to find a roommate. I choose to live with my mother since she is a known quantity. I don't have to worry about her being a shitty roommate.
 

I Don't Like

Member
Dec 11, 2017
14,907


YIKES.

AND this dude knocked someone up?

DOUBLE YIKES.

What if he wants to make them pay for putting him into this world?
Maybe he doesn't see the fun in working 40-60 hours to survive just because his parents decided to have kids.

Make them pay for giving him life? That would be pretty strange.

And few people see the "fun" in working 40-60 hours but it's part of life. He needs to take responsibility and work towards a job that he can consider at least tolerable and develop himself so he's not working 60 hours just to survive.

Had he done it much earlier, he'd probably be in a decent place by now. Instead he's going on national TV and embarrassing himself.
 

Vadara

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,565
Being a wageslave is overrated. The economy is shit and work is a joke. I 22 and live the moocher hikikomori NEET life and I'm not ashamed of it.
 
Well, I mean not supporting a person (within reason of course) means is not real family you care about ( at least in my country) and is a stranger to you; I think it's one of the best examples/definitions you can give of being a stranger vs being family you care.

I mean asking rent is something you would ask a stranger not a family member. Let's make an example: would you charge your close family members for taking care of their pet or house while they are away or to have them as guests in your house for some time?

Think about it: It's not like if relatives (like aunts and uncles) ask to come to my home as guests for a few months, I ask them the rent or to share bills (just as I wouldn't ask my son if I had one). It's something I would ask a stranger not a close family member. Just as if you need a temporary accommodation (even for silly reasons and not emergencies), your sister or brother shouldn't charge you with rent but help you to reciprocate the favours you did (and just to help each other since you are family and it should make you feel well to help each others since you are close). A personal example: relatives had my parent as guest for some time in their home while he was there vacation because it just makes you feel well to help a family member and more importantly stay around them or eating with them. In my country charging rent or even expenses (within reason and personal financial possibilities) means you don't consider them family and consider them strangers. So why wouldn't you do the same to your children?

Shouldn't you teach your children that taking care and helping family (be sons or sisters and brothers) and loved ones is more important than money and rent? So that they will remember that when they will have to take care of you when you are 75-80 years old, sacrificing money, maybe jobs, to keep an old father/mother in their home and who knows what else they will have to do (using paid vacations to stay with you and give up a summer trip, paying nurses and so on).

What is the point of having or building a family if you don't even really want them around and don't care if they will live better or worse than you after you will die (which is the point of helping them and not making them pay rent when they are young and should instead be saving to avoid poverty during retirement and maybe having saved enough between 18-26/27 years old so that one day they will be able to have their own children one day and carry on the family name and be happier); i mean trying everything you can so that your children will be happy and will have a better life (financially) than you after you die is all that matters in a family; making sure that your children will be happy, they will never have to worry about finances and hopefully stay and support you when you are super old to reciprocate (and possibly remember you after you die for all the help you gave them, including the rent and money he saved thanks to you when he was in need while he was a 20 something needed to have a better life for him and the next generation).

I can't even fathom to imagine how american grandparents must treat their grandchildren, if they treat their sons and daughters like this (kicking them out in cold blood and not supporting them as soon as they turn 18 like it was a magical date)? Do grandparents charge/ask payment to their sons for taking care of nephews if they stay and eat with them?

I mean when I was a children I stayed nearly a month or two every summer for 8-10 years at my grandparent's home and every grandparent would/should be glad to have them. I mean they often even complained that we didn't even come enough and always complained we lived too far. And same happens for many families here in Italy.

Grandparents happy to being around their grandchildren and having them as guests in their home during summer (especially when they live far away during the rest of the year). I mean if parents don't even want their own children, I can't even fathom to imagine how they must treat their grandchildren or maybe they even ask for payment to take care of them or having them around on a constant basis. I'm seriously appalled/terrified by a society made of people tha prefer enjoying their "golden years" (after their children turn 18) instead of being happy to have them around (and I don't see how one excludes the other anyway).

I think people are taking the 'rent' thing to really extreme places, as if parents are demanding payment purely for greed or to spite the kids for existing. In my experience, and I feel like this is generally the norm, the concept of the rent is to 1) help teach the kid about real world responsibilities. Paying on time, budgeting, having a regular job to have enough money saved up for regular bills, etc. One thing I had noticed that was different in my 20s between myself and freshly out of the house peers when it came to renting in the real world was that they seemed to think rent was a suggestion or flexible somehow. The number of times I heard about them being late, or 'forgetting', or not having enough when they were roommating was really common. 2) Asking for rent is to encourage them to get out of the house and onto their own feet. It's a motivator and deterrent for lingering on past the point of needing to stay home. 3) Defraying costs. I think most kids just pitch in for bills, but sometimes it covers this as well. And in some cases also (I'll probably do this or some version), the 'rent' collected is (unbeknownst to them) put into an account and given back to the kid when they move out so that they have a nice bit of money saved up for emergencies. Basically, the leap to they must hate their children to 'treat them like strangers' seems really defensive and a bit silly.
 
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PSqueak

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,464
Imagine being such a loaf, and ill-equipped human that your parents have to evict you...

That is also the nicest eviction notice ever, with his parents trying to help the dude out.

Counter point: imagine being such shitty parents that you produced said ill-equipped human being that you're now suing to get off your house because you failed as parents.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,306
New York
I think people are taking the 'rent' thing to really extreme places, as if parents are demanding payment purely for greed or to spite the kids for existing. In my experience, and I feel like this is generally the norm, the concept of the rent is to 1) help teach the kid about real world responsibilities. Paying on time, budgeting, having a regular job to have enough money saved up for regular bills, etc. One thing I had noticed that was different in my 20s between myself and freshly out of the house peers when it came to renting in the real world was that they seemed to think rent was a suggestion or flexible somehow. The number of times I heard about them being late, or 'forgetting', or not having enough when they were roommating was really common. 2) Asking for rent is to encourage them to get out of the house and onto their own feet. It's a motivator and deterrent for lingering on past the point of needing to stay home. 3) Defraying costs. I think most kids just pitch in for bills, but sometimes it covers this as well. And in some cases also (I'll probably do this or some version), the 'rent' collected is (unbeknownst to them) put into an account and given back to the kid when they move out so that they have a nice bit of money saved up for emergencies. Basically, the leap to they must hate their children to 'treat them like strangers' seems really defensive and a bit silly.

No parent wants to see their grown child being a lazy leech. When I was in my early 20's I toss my mom a few hundred to help with bills. She knew I was struggling to really get into my career and working menial jobs in-between industry layoffs. But I still had an obligation to provide for home. That's a part of being an adult. No excuses. If dude had a job and was truly trying his parents would still look out for him. That's what I found to be true: Parents many times will help when you're on point in a good direction but rescind such assistance if you're taking advantage of it or not really trying on your end. Not getting leeched by some lazy piece of shit. Blood or not.

Counter point: imagine being such shitty parents that you produced said ill-equipped human being that you're now suing to get off your house because you failed as parents.

Bullshit. You can take two kids raise em exactly the same and one can be successful and the other can be a lazy bum. I've seen it before. If anything the only fault I can find w/ the parents is they gave the guy too much help. He's 30. Excuses about failed parenting doesn't fly. I know too many great people with parents FAR worse than this that still got out and got they grind on. This dude just lazy. Parents enabled him too long but that doesn't make the situation their fault.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,543
But it's ok for someone else to be a wageslave for you? So you're really ok with wageslavery as long as it's someone else doing the grinding? That's not a joke that's just selfish.

I mean, this is a huge philosophical, societal discussion but your argument essentially boils down to "Everyone else is a "wageslave" (awful word btw), so you should be too", which basically places the burden of a bad system not on the people in position to change that system, but on the people getting abused by the system to take part in it so other people don't get abused even more.

No amount of social welfare (ESPECIALLY in the US with its absolutely terrible welfare and social security programs) will ever come close to make a dent in your personal paycheck compared to the amount of money the lower and middle class gets cheated out of by lack of workers rights and preferred treatment of businesses and already rich individuals.
So, this, basically:
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,306
New York
I mean, this is a huge philosophical, societal discussion but your argument essentially boils down to "Everyone else is a "wageslave" (awful word btw), so you should be too", which basically places the burden of a bad system not on the people in position to change that system, but on the people getting abused by the system to take part in it so other people don't get abused even more. So, this, basically:


No, my argument is "For you to not work yet be comfortable requires someone else to work and provide said comfort to you. That's not fair to them and it's selfish of you." That's what I'm saying so if you're going to quote me then quote exactly what I'm saying. Don't take what I'm saying, ignore it. Come up with some other shit and claim that's what I'm saying and then argue against that, lol.

Bad system that needs to improve? Sure. But in the here and now? If you're able you should be working. But you're right philosophical discussion. But should this guys parents be supporting him? No. He rather starve than go lift a box that's on him.
 

Deleted member 36543

User requested account closure
Banned
Dec 20, 2017
1,355
Counter point: imagine being such shitty parents that you produced said ill-equipped human being that you're now suing to get off your house because you failed as parents.
One thing I would blame the parent for is the fact that they cuddled him for too long. They were too nice and caring. Many other parents would have kicked his ass out into society to force him to become a man a long time ago.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,543
No, my argument is "For you to not work yet be comfortable requires someone else to work and provide said comfort to you. That's not fair to them and it's selfish of you." That's what I'm saying so if you're going to quote me then quote exactly what I'm saying. Don't take what I'm saying, ignore it. Come up with some other shit and claim that's what I'm saying and then argue against that, lol.

Bad system that needs to improve? Sure. But in the here and now? If you're able you should be working. But you're right philosophical discussion. But should this guys parents be supporting him? No. He rather starve than go lift a box that's on him.

Yeah, I wasn't trying to defend the 30-year-old in the discussion, I was more talking about the point in general.

I don't really think your bolded statement is any different from what I was saying you were saying, though? You're saying he is selfish by not taking part in the system. Which means the only alternative here to not be selfish is taking part in the system, unless I'm misunderstanding something? And that was the exact line of thought I was criticizing, because it basically puts societal pressure on everyone in the middle and lower class to take part in a system that exploits especially the lower class, even though a lack of participation has absolutely no effect on you compared to the amount of money lost to the middle/lower class by societal and cultural norms put in place and controlled by the upper class. You are pointing down on the individual even though the problem is up there in societal structures and for the individual to take part in the system means to directly strengthen and further enforce it.
 

Deepthought_

Banned
May 15, 2018
1,992
But it's ok for someone else to be a wageslave for you? So you're really ok with wageslavery as long as it's someone else doing the grinding? That's not a joke that's just selfish.

The parent who gave birth to you by choice and was already taking care of you and for some of us don't mind doing do it and want us to live with them ..... yes it is ok.

While most people struggle living on their own , those who are smart and work part time and go to school rent free better themselves with money saved up
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
I was wondering why this thread was going on for so long, some of you have some bizarre takes.

Dude is 30, dude has a kid, he doesn't work, the parents offered him money to move out while encouraging him to get a job. How are they the bad guys in some of your eyes. He's literally bitching that they don't do his laundry.

Yes, some kids need longer to adjust into adulthood after a certain point, but there are limits. Certain states are more expensive than others and some people can even come to an agreement and have a unique living situation with their parents, but it sounds like he's just living off them.
 

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
5,068


I don't care for what I've seen of the dude so far, but a lot of what's making this awkward is the reporter's approach to this. The dude isn't the most eloquent speaker, which exacerbates things with the awkward pauses. But her sort of smug and perpetual (o_O) expression automatically positions her to me as someone who's not just asking questions, but who is happy to let viewers know that deep down she's just as judgmental of him as they are.

She also re-hashes questions that she knows the answer to. Asking if the guy doesn't want personal space or to be able to form private relationships is a question everyone already knows the answer to. Asking why he can't move out tomorrow is the question that everyone already knows the answer to. Her commenting on him taking the sip of water was just a bizarre thing to comment on.

The dude is cringe-y as hell on his own, but from the 4 or so minutes I watched of this, she seemed content to exacerbate and call attention to it even more.

I think she helped make it awkward by her lack of professionalism. Bringing up a guy who probably has social anxiety issues and is on an interview with a major news outlet drinking water is tacky and rather pathetic. There's a reason this wasn't a live interview, the guy isn't some camera friendly person so she looks incredibly rude and arrogant here if anything. The interviewer did something wrong when they are the ones being talked about here and not the interviewee. She looked very poor here IMHO, looked completely out of touch with anything the guy said and had her mind made up heading into this by reading the headline alone. The guy was fumbling through words and she just had obnoxious facial expressions knowing this interview was going to be put out to the public. Absolutely unprofessional.


Agreed.
 

BWoog

Member
Oct 27, 2017
38,271
Didn't even see the part where he mentions he's a conservative and liberals are the REAL spoiled ones.
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,765
European communities and American communities certainly have different views on familial responsibility and where that line is drawn with regards to parents and kids.

One european poster just in here is talking about families working and saving their entire lives to pass down this money and wealth to their kids. Only the "ultra-rich" even think about that in America. People work hard for their careers, lives, retirements, and their families too, but it is not expected you will give some grand inheritance savings to your kid. If you can afford to help them get through school that's probably the most a kid could expect from a responsible parent.

I have a my own house but it's not my reality that I will just give this to my children. I will do everything I can to afford them the same opportunities I had, but they aren't just going to be awarded whatever wealth I manage to accumulate. Parents have fulfilling lives they live on their own without their children.
 

Odesu

Member
Oct 26, 2017
5,543
European communities and American communities certainly have different views on familial responsibility and where that line is drawn with regards to parents and kids.

One european poster just in here is talking about families working and saving their entire lives to pass down this money and wealth to their kids. Only the "ultra-rich" even think about that in America. People work hard for their careers, lives, retirements, and their families too, but it is not expected you will give some grand inheritance savings to your kid. If you can afford to help them get through school that's probably the most a kid could expect from a responsible parent.

I have a my own house but it's not my reality that I will just give this to my children. I will do everything I can to afford them the same opportunities I had, but they aren't just going to be awarded whatever wealth I manage to accumulate. Parents have fulfilling lives they live on their own without their children.

Wait. You will not give the house you bought/built to your children? I am german so you probably hit the nail on the head with your first sentences, but this is incredibly baffling to me. A large part in building your own house in germany is to be able to provide a home to your children and their children when they grow up. Like...of course the children are going to inherit their parents house, what else are you going to do with the property? o0
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,765
Wait. You will not give the house you bought/built to your children? I am german so you probably hit the nail on the head with your first sentences, but this is incredibly baffling to me. A large part in building your own house in germany is to be able to provide a home to your children and their children when they grow up. What else are you going to do with the property?

This doesn't really happen that often in America. It (in my opinion) would be rare my children would even want the house.

It may be hard for me to get across eloquently, but there is lots of life to live without your kids. As your children mature, go to college, begin careers, become independent, parent/child relationships in America do not stay close. I see my mother about 12 times a year, and talk on the phone about once per week. The majority of my mothers life will not involve her being with her child or taking care of her child. If she had a house, I wouldn't expect, nor honestly would I even want it.

Again, just for clarity sake, this is definitely both my personal point of view, and a very American one. I know these views differ from your own. Not that either is the correct way.
 

Addleburg

The Fallen
Nov 16, 2017
5,068
Wait. You will not give the house you bought/built to your children? I am german so you probably hit the nail on the head with your first sentences, but this is incredibly baffling to me. A large part in building your own house in germany is to be able to provide a home to your children and their children when they grow up. Like...of course the children are going to inherit their parents house, what else are you going to do with the property? o0

I'm American (well, Nigerian-born), but I have the same reaction that you do. I kind of figured that most families plan to bestow what wealth they had onto their kids. That isn't to say that they foster an attitude within their kids where they shouldn't strike out on their own and create their own wealth, but that the kids can generally plan to inherit what their parents leave behind.

I mean, you're dead. You can't take it with you. I guess you could donate it? Otherwise, I don't know what else you have planned for that stuff.

This doesn't really happen that often in America. It (in my opinion) would be rare my children would even want the house.

They probably would want your house.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
This doesn't really happen that often in America. It (in my opinion) would be rare my children would even want the house.

It may be hard for me to get across eloquently, but there is lots of life to live without your kids. As your children mature, go to college, begin careers, become independent, parent/child relationships in America do not stay close. I see my mother about 12 times a year, and talk on the phone about once per week. The majority of my mothers life will not involve her being with her child or taking care of her child. If she had a house, I wouldn't expect, nor honestly would I even want it.
Had that conversation with my mom. My brother and I would inherit the house, but she knows neither of us would want it because neither of us would have any interest in living there.
 

The Deep End

Banned
May 24, 2018
66
Crazy how the story, jokes, hot takes would have been different if he was a woman.
One of my best friends' sister still lives at home, has no job , has like 5 cats is definitely 30+
physically able etc. I don't know it's funny how double standards work. Yeah she would probably get some sideeyed from people but the way youtubers, forums, articles talk about this dude it's something extra. Luckily this guy ain't a virgin because those would be some super jokes aimed at him/his manhood/value.

but He should probably move on with his life. His parents at this point have no issue exposing him and themselves to the rest of the world and nobody wants their business in the open air.
 

Doctor Doggo

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,376
This guy legit is a living breathing carbon copy of my step brother, just a little older. They look nearly indentical.
 
Oct 25, 2017
26,560
Crazy how the story, jokes, hot takes would have been different if he was a woman.
One of my best friends' sister still lives at home, has no job , has like 5 cats is definitely 30+
physically able etc. I don't know it's funny how double standards work. Yeah she would probably get some sideeyed from people but the way youtubers, forums, articles talk about this dude it's something extra. Luckily this guy ain't a virgin because those would be some super jokes aimed at him/his manhood/value.

but He should probably move on with his life. His parents at this point have no issue exposing him and themselves to the rest of the world and nobody wants their business in the open air.
So are you saying we should be nicer to the guy or meaner to the girl?
 

cwmartin

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,765
Had that conversation with my mom. My brother and I would inherit the house, but she knows neither of us would want it because neither of us would have any interest in living there.

Yeah, I personally feel that's very common. I don't know a single person in my entire life who lives in a house anyone inherited. If you did, you would just sell it probably.
 

Quixzlizx

Member
Oct 25, 2017
2,591
Yeah, I wasn't trying to defend the 30-year-old in the discussion, I was more talking about the point in general.

I don't really think your bolded statement is any different from what I was saying you were saying, though? You're saying he is selfish by not taking part in the system. Which means the only alternative here to not be selfish is taking part in the system, unless I'm misunderstanding something? And that was the exact line of thought I was criticizing, because it basically puts societal pressure on everyone in the middle and lower class to take part in a system that exploits especially the lower class, even though a lack of participation has absolutely no effect on you compared to the amount of money lost to the middle/lower class by societal and cultural norms put in place and controlled by the upper class. You are pointing down on the individual even though the problem is up there in societal structures and for the individual to take part in the system means to directly strengthen and further enforce it.
He's participating in the system by mooching off people who are participating in it. If he wants to go live in the woods or under a highway overpass, fair play to him.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,306
New York
Yeah, I wasn't trying to defend the 30-year-old in the discussion, I was more talking about the point in general.

I don't really think your bolded statement is any different from what I was saying you were saying, though? You're saying he is selfish by not taking part in the system. Which means the only alternative here to not be selfish is taking part in the system, unless I'm misunderstanding something? And that was the exact line of thought I was criticizing, because it basically puts societal pressure on everyone in the middle and lower class to take part in a system that exploits especially the lower class, even though a lack of participation has absolutely no effect on you compared to the amount of money lost to the middle/lower class by societal and cultural norms put in place and controlled by the upper class. You are pointing down on the individual even though the problem is up there in societal structures and for the individual to take part in the system means to directly strengthen and further enforce it.

I'm saying it's selfish and hypocritical to claim the system is broken so that justifies not working when other people have to work in the same system to support you for not working. It's saying something is bad if I have to do it but I'm totally cool with others having to do it to take care of me.
 

Mammoth Jones

Member
Oct 25, 2017
12,306
New York
The parent who gave birth to you by choice and was already taking care of you and for some of us don't mind doing do it and want us to live with them ..... yes it is ok.

While most people struggle living on their own , those who are smart and work part time and go to school rent free better themselves with money saved up

Your scenario is completely different than the scenario you quoted me speaking on. I'm totally fine with what you're saying. And I agree. But not in school. Not working. Able bodied. That's just being a leech. Obviously most parents are going to cut their kid some slack when they see in the long term it puts them in a better position. Of course. But this dude ain't that scenario.