It's more-or-less a response to the Kotaku article tackling the same topic with Omni's own thoughts on the subject. Omni puts out great videos overall, & I feel like this one is no different.
Source: Omni (YouTube)
Yeah but this is explicitly addressed in the video.
The video goes into further depth on why the article got that response.Yeah but
It was PROVED one and again that women receive MUCH more harassment on gaming.
Hell, both a gay man and a black man can "sound white male" and receive less harassment.
Women receive shit when BUYING games. From the random game store employee
Omni actually mentioned those responses in his video & why they ended up being how they are.Yeah but
It was PROVED one and again that women receive MUCH more harassment on gaming.
Hell, both a gay man and a black man can "sound white male" and receive less harassment.
Women receive shit when BUYING games. From the random game store employee
The video covered all the bases, almost to the point where this thread will end up being somewhat redundant. Thanks for making the thread though.
Yeah but this is explicitly addressed in the video.
The video goes into further depth on why the article got that response.
Omni actually mentioned those responses in his video & why they ended up being how they are.
I mean, there is Ricki Ortiz, but I generally get your point.Sexism plays a big contributing factor in why esports games are less popular among women to begin with tho, but I don't think it's the sole factor.
I think the predominately factors when it comes to PRO gaming are two folds:
Both are quite similar to almost just about any sports there is. Less numbers, means less absolute top skilled players and companies don't seem to value women in competitive gaming as much. I'm actually not sure if they draw less viewers as they do in many regular sports like football.
- There aren't as many women interested in pursuing pro gaming.
- Sponsorship / interest are predominantly a men thing.
There are many games that are solo-games where you can compete genderless, but there is rarely a women at the top. e.g. Fighting Games like Street Fighter. Maybe they simply don't appeal to them as much.
gee i wonder if less numbers could be because of sexism driving women away and having a domino effect on other women who would have an interest were it not for the first dominoSexism plays a big contributing factor in why esports games are less popular among women to begin with tho, but I don't think it's the sole factor.
I think the predominately factors when it comes to PRO gaming are two folds:
Both are quite similar to almost just about any sports there is. Less numbers, means less absolute top skilled players and companies don't seem to value women in competitive gaming as much. I'm actually not sure if they draw less viewers as they do in many regular sports like football.
- There aren't as many women interested in pursuing pro gaming.
- Sponsorship / interest are predominantly a men thing.
There are many games that are solo-games where you can compete genderless, but there is rarely a women at the top. e.g. Fighting Games like Street Fighter. Maybe they simply don't appeal to them as much.
But he also addresses that men make up the majority of gaming, which causes this trend of men being shitty mostly towards women, which causes women to not want to compete or think about going pro, and now we have this problem. Yeah, the point got a little messy when he tried to explain that other men get harassed too.And thios is why my post has more than that
Because he adressed shitly.
"gay and black people are also harassed" is a shitty reason
See Ricki Ortiz. She is a huge player. The fact that she was read as a gay man for a long time helped her to reach heights most cis women haven't meet
I would argue that fighting games from my experiences has a lot more woman players than any other competitive genre. I don't mean pro players, I mean that these games simply appeal more to women on a consumer level.can compete genderless, but there is rarely a women at the top. e.g. Fighting Games like Street Fighter. Maybe they simply don't appeal to them as much.
It's probably cuz with fighting games it's an open environment for anyone to sign up and compete. Other esports require you to go through many hoops just to get placed on a team but with fighting games all you gotta do is pay the entrance fee and your good to go.I would argue that fighting games from my experiences has a lot more woman players than any other competitive genre. I don't mean pro players, I mean that these games simply appeal more to women on a consumer level.
It's probably cuz with fighting games it's an open environment for anyone to sign up and compete. Other esports require you to go through many hoops just to get placed on a team but with fighting games all you gotta do is pay the entrance fee and your good to go.
An 18 year old person cant just decide one day to become a pro Overwatch player without years of prior experience of gaming. The same thing would apply to a professional footballer. It's more socially acceptable for boys to play games than girls. I think it is far more likely that parents would buy a Playstation for their 5 year old son and buy something different for their 5 year old daughter and your path to becoming a pro starts from there so men will have the larger talent pool. I think this is the largest contributor and it's pretty stupid to just blame "men".
You know what happened when a woman showed that she was pro level in overwatch?
She received SO MANY people saying she was cheating she had to play live in front of people with blizzard help to prove she was just good
Speaking from personal experience, I find the fighting game community to be insanely welcoming (regardless of gender, race, or sexuality). I honestly took that to heart when I was getting my local scene going.It's probably cuz with fighting games it's an open environment for anyone to sign up and compete. Other esports require you to go through many hoops just to get placed on a team but with fighting games all you gotta do is pay the entrance fee and your good to go.
And she cleared her name and became a pro competing in OWL. Just seems like proof that if you are talented enough you will make it.
And she cleared her name and became a pro competing in OWL. Just seems like proof that if you are talented enough you will make it.
The average woman's reaction time is approx 100millisecond slower than the average male's (the gap is smaller among young healthy athletes in their prime but still of consequential value). In today's social climate it might not be politically correct to point this out - but the fact is that the way some competitive videogames work, people with faster reaction times will have a sizeable advantage. (esp in certain e-sports like counter-strike where reaction time to peeking corners/peeking players is insanely important to the millisecond)
During the CGS, (the championship gaming series, no longer around), there was a reaction time test machine and the e-sports pros who tested on it almost always showed that the pro guy gamers would have about 80-150ms faster reaction time than the pro girl gamers.
This research article is one of the easier ones to read on this topic, as most of them use scientific jargon which isn't meant for public consumption.
It would be great if everyone, no matter their sex, was 100% equal on biological footing so we didn't have to deal with these discrepancies - one possible solution would be a setup similar to the NBA/WNBA, have a 'everyone' league and a 'women' league (though money talks and it will only happen if some suit sees profit in it)
And she cleared her name and became a pro competing in OWL. Just seems like proof that if you are talented enough you will make it.
Of if you have a skin so thick it is made of steel.
I have seen male players give up for SO MUCH less
The average woman's reaction time is approx 100millisecond slower than the average male's (the gap is smaller among young healthy athletes in their prime but still of consequential value). In today's social climate it might not be politically correct to point this out - but the fact is that the way some competitive videogames work, people with faster reaction times will have a sizeable advantage. (esp in certain e-sports like counter-strike where reaction time to peeking corners/peeking players is insanely important to the millisecond)
During the CGS, (the championship gaming series, no longer around), there was a reaction time test machine and the e-sports pros who tested on it almost always showed that the pro guy gamers would have about 80-150ms faster reaction time than the pro girl gamers.
This research article is one of the easier ones to read on this topic, as most of them use scientific jargon which isn't meant for public consumption.
It would be great if everyone, no matter their sex, was 100% equal on biological footing so we didn't have to deal with these discrepancies - one possible solution would be a setup similar to the NBA/WNBA, have a 'everyone' league and a 'women' league (though money talks and it will only happen if some suit sees profit in it)
- There aren't as many women interested in pursuing pro gaming.
- Sponsorship / interest are predominantly a men thing.
The average woman's reaction time is approx 100millisecond slower than the average male's (the gap is smaller among young healthy athletes in their prime but still of consequential value). In today's social climate it might not be politically correct to point this out - but the fact is that the way some competitive videogames work, people with faster reaction times will have a sizeable advantage. (esp in certain e-sports like counter-strike where reaction time to peeking corners/peeking players is insanely important to the millisecond) [...]
This research article is one of the easier ones to read on this topic, as most of them use scientific jargon which isn't meant for public consumption.
At the 99.9% confidence level, neither men nor women can react in 100 ms, but they can react in as little as 109 ms and 121 ms, respectively. However, that sex difference in reaction time is likely an artifact caused by using the same force threshold in women as men, and it permits a woman to false start by up to 21 ms without penalty. [...]
Since women have faster auditory latencies [9], [10] and shorter neural pathways due to a shorter stature than men [11], the origin of the slower female Olympic reaction times would appear to be peripheral and not central. Indeed, the plantarflexor premotor time in response is significantly shorter in healthy young women [12]. However, healthy young women do have a 20% lower rate of developing plantarflexor strength and 28% lower maximum isometric strength than men [12], presumably due to their 32% smaller leg muscle mass [13]. This peripheral motor factor will have systematically lengthened the time the women sprinters required to increase their force to the specified threshold on the 2008 Beijing Olympic starting blocks.
In conclusion, the results lead us to reject the hypothesis that the minimum reaction time of male or female sprinters is 100 ms under the start rules used for the Beijing Olympic sprinters. The slower apparent reaction time of women is caused by requiring the sex with the lower strength to develop the same increase in force as the men in order to determine if a false start occurred.
Have you seen the routine hate threads players and teams get on reddit for being bad, or all the death threads a CS:GO player receives on twitter after losing a match and someone's skin better money or some players being mocked by Twitch chat constantly. You need skin thick as steel to be in esports regardless of gender.
Weird video. The initial portion where he says that it's purely lack of skill, it's like explaining the obesity epidemic as being caused by people eating too much. Yes, but what are the root causes for that?
Then when he does go into the underlying reasons, he basically agrees with the Kotaku article which he previously dismissed by saying "Well, let's just say it was a Kotaku article."
So I found the video a bit all over the place.
I didn't get that from the article you linked at all. It seems to both contradict your point while also being only tangentially related to it:
Am I missing something?
Do you not see how this creates an environment that is inherently disadvantageous for minorities or those who are more likely to be targeted by antagonizers?
And if you go beyond that, is dismissed as being due to the method of measurement rather than women actually being "slower".You're missing that he read "100ms" and stopped there, assuming that's the difference between men and women, rather than a lower bound for reaction times, with the actual difference in the range of 20ms (which is pretty much negligible for games).
Minorities are targeted regardless of gender and I never said it did not contribute just it was not the main reason.
Pretty much.before watching: men
after watching: down to the root of the problem, definitely still men
what was this video trying to prove again
And if you go beyond that, is dismissed as being due to the method of measurement rather than women actually being "slower".
I think the predominately factors when it comes to PRO gaming are two folds:
- There aren't as many women interested in pursuing pro gaming.
- Sponsorship / interest are predominantly a men thing.
before watching: men
after watching: down to the root of the problem, definitely still men
what was this video trying to prove again
Pretty much.
"What keeps women from competing?"
"Well it's reductive and lazy to just say 'men'."
"Okay, so what is the cause?"
"A lack of skill."
"Why is that?"
"An unwelcoming environment for most female players to stay engaged and grow, largely thanks to men."
"...Soooo."
"Okay, so it's men."
Interesting points.The average woman's reaction time is approx 100millisecond slower than the average male's (the gap is smaller among young healthy athletes in their prime but still of consequential value). In today's social climate it might not be politically correct to point this out - but the fact is that the way some competitive videogames work, people with faster reaction times will have a sizeable advantage. (esp in certain e-sports like counter-strike where reaction time to peeking corners/peeking players is insanely important to the millisecond)
During the CGS, (the championship gaming series, no longer around), there was a reaction time test machine and the e-sports pros who tested on it almost always showed that the pro guy gamers would have about 80-150ms faster reaction time than the pro girl gamers.
This research article is one of the easier ones to read on this topic, as most of them use scientific jargon which isn't meant for public consumption.
It would be great if everyone, no matter their sex, was 100% equal on biological footing so we didn't have to deal with these discrepancies - one possible solution would be a setup similar to the NBA/WNBA, have a 'everyone' league and a 'women' league (though money talks and it will only happen if some suit sees profit in it)
The average woman's reaction time is approx 100millisecond slower than the average male's (the gap is smaller among young healthy athletes in their prime but still of consequential value). In today's social climate it might not be politically correct to point this out - but the fact is that the way some competitive videogames work, people with faster reaction times will have a sizeable advantage. (esp in certain e-sports like counter-strike where reaction time to peeking corners/peeking players is insanely important to the millisecond)
I think skill is the main reason not because women are less naturally talented than men but because it is more socially acceptable for boys to spend their childhood playing video games. While more girls are playing games today it was less true a decade ago which is when the current esport players would have had to have started playing games. Esport careers are also incredibly short with most peaking in the early 20's so it's not like someone at 18 can just decide to become an Overwatch pro without a decade+ of competitive gaming experience as a child.
I think it's more likely a parent would buy a Playstation for a 5yr old boy than a 5yr old girl. Again less true now truer a decade ago. Pretty much any sport you have to start playing as a child? You don't see a footballer suddenly become a professional at 18 without playing all throughout his childhood. Don't see why esports would be any different.Why do you think that is? Also, it seems like a huge leap of logic to assume the sole reason pro gamers are good at the games they play is because they played a lot of games in their childhood.
Yikes at this post.
If you've ever been to a fighting game tournament, you know exactly why women don't want to participate or be there. It is inherently aggressive. "Average reaction time" doesn't mean shit when you have a room full of smelly assholes, sometimes literally.