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This fucking incel shit has got to stop.
- Thread starter Tahnit
- Start date
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This thread got me browsing /r/braincels. Such a harmful place.
Quite actively trying to get others to not try and improve themselves. And apparently the original version of this guy's post had a call to violence in it, but was removed. Sad and dangerous communities that don't help anyone get better.
Quite actively trying to get others to not try and improve themselves. And apparently the original version of this guy's post had a call to violence in it, but was removed. Sad and dangerous communities that don't help anyone get better.
Pro tip: pretending to be an asshole online to troll people is the same thing as being an asshole.
my point is that if we try and say every guy who harasses or otherwise resents women is an incel, it makes it much easier to say these kind of behaviours aren't more widespread amongst men in general - which they are. misogyny wasn't invented by the incel community, they just turned it into their personal cult.
This thread got me browsing /r/braincels. Such a harmful place.
Quite actively trying to get others to not try and improve themselves. And apparently the original version of this guy's post had a call to violence in it, but was removed. Sad and dangerous communities that don't help anyone get better.
Misery loves company and keeping others down in the depths with you rather than seeing them succeed because it would mean you were even more pathetic.
It's hard to believe anyone thinks that's a real story, yet here we are. *sigh*This thread got me browsing /r/braincels. Such a harmful place.
Quite actively trying to get others to not try and improve themselves. And apparently the original version of this guy's post had a call to violence in it, but was removed. Sad and dangerous communities that don't help anyone get better.
So they want to live like in The Haindmaids tale?
Fucking taliban more or less.
Wouldnt most wifes go to chad if the republic of gilead existed and the incels would have been shipped of to the colonies or whatever.
Some of them do actually support sharia law which is not suprising.
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It's sad for someone to have hard luck finding a partner, or even worse to not be able to get any interest from the opposite sex. But using that as a defining character trait to become a radicalised misogynist who thinks women owe them something they're not getting is unhealthy and dangerous.
The fact that this is so similar to Roger's manifesto makes me believe who ever wrote this is no troll.
My favorite part is because of the big black guy stereotype, a lot of them are convinced that it's impossible for black men to be virgins.
Again, I do agree with you (to an extent).
The problem is that it's difficult to ascertain whether an individual is an "incel" or just someone who doesn't really follow the normal grain/lot in life. As mentioned in one of my other comments (I don't think it was to you, directly) on this thread - individuals on this very thread are struggling with a definitive definition of what an incel is or what characteristics an incel would have that would be differentiators from someone who just isn't interested in relationships. To use your reference to firing someone over ISIS beliefs - it would, effectively, be giving people the ability to fire someone because they're Middle Eastern. It's a slippery slope that could fall a lot further than the intended outcome. That's my overall concern.
Deplatforming via termination from employment would only remove one outlet of "recruitment" (or method of indoctrination). When fracturing/deplatforming groups on the Internet, the reactions are a bit different. Unless there are backup plans (which, by the way, it appears that incels.me is just one of seven different domains pointing to that forum and there is backup information on various different outlets - like Discord and Slack), removing them off of a platform does "splinter" their community. This happened with some of the r/pizzagate folks - they moved to Voat and lost a fair number of their userbase (despite many "followers" of that belief are still splintered around the Internet without a unified community to rely on). It can help but it will not destroy the mentality altogether. And on that note....
"Incel mentality" has been around for as long as I can imagine. It's just had different forms. MRA members tend to have the same "hatred" of women and core beliefs that women are manipulative and liars (instinctively, formed through social evolution) as many incels do. The only difference is that incels twist it around and claim that they're involuntarily celibate. They violent tendencies once came out through abusive relationships and rape/molestation of women by MRA guys - now? Incels believe it's justified to kill "Chads" and "Stacys" that emboldens the whole worldview that "Chads and Stacys are just lying to one another". Incel is just the direct result of decades of MRA-like mentality being around, entitlement, and accessibility to the Internet (to validate/vindicate that worldview). Deplatforming incels will only splinter off the group; without any clear indication as to which route it would take.
To be fair, on the same hand, the "subsets of incels" are gnawing at one another. "Mentalcels" (incels that believe that it's their mental illness or handicap that causes their inability to have a relationship) are looked down upon by other subsets because they're making the whole incel group look like "mental cases" versus people with legitimate issues with society. Long story short- all of this focus on the incel community is fracturing the community on its own. They were fine being part of a group that existed in and of itself, without outsiders being overly critical of their worldview. Now? They need validation that their type of incel mentality is the true form of incel mentality. So it's becoming even more toxic to one another in said community.
...I honestly want to hurt that person. Let's see him try to put a shock collar on me when I shove my boot so far up his arse I'll be able to use his teeth as a xylophone.
Wow. ISIS look like boy scouts compared to incels in terms of how a society should look. Surprised these fuckers didn't at least migrate to Syria when ISIS was still around.
I don't think it's a radical idea that a large amount of westerners that flew there and joined ISIS did so out of a desire to freely murder people and treat women like sex slaves, rather than any kind of religious conviction.
The examples you gave are both from cultures that are way more sexist (in general) than the European/American/British more liberal culture towards sex, especially when it comes to women. As you said, it is internalized indeed, but maybe not because of the media primarily.
Having grown up in a Latin culture where there is a clear division between ''women to marry and women to fuck'' that is weighing over every woman's shoulders based on her smallest actions, I saw many women who gave this 'rejection treatment' out of the fear they would be seen as 'sluts' and 'too easy' if they showed too much interest in a guy or made the first move, and also would be regarded as not as valuable by the guy even if the relationship started. And of course, they would never say to people/to the guy this was the reason, only to their female friends, often asking for advice.
It is not impossible that a girl do this motivated by her ego or thinking this is 'romantic' but from what I saw this was what happened in the majority of the cases.
Seriously. This isn't even the first time I've seen something like that, either. It's horrifying and infuriating in equal measure. Part of me is terrified there are men out there that actually feel this way and another part of me just wants to punch them in the face.
...I think I'll just hug my dog.
You can add men in strict Muslim societies to those groups too. Read up on acid attacks and get depressed for women in those countries. All of the perpetrators in these attacks were men who took horrible revenge on the women who spurned them.
There are a decent chunk of people who make alts and post on incel subreddits just to troll the regulars to laugh at them and how easily swayed they are, or even worse in hopes of making someone snap or fueling violence. Most don't think it's real probably but a few will, and the ones who would believe that and internalize it are probably very dangerous and unstable people. The subreddit needs to be nuked from orbit and a sustained effort needs to be made after that to ban clones that arise, they've done it before, I don't know what other proof Spez needs in this case. That community cannot exist under the content policy.
*call meeting*
"Raise your hand if you're an incel"
*Incels raise hands*
Hahahahaha! Brilliant. I love it.
One of the reasons this incel stuff fascinates and yet horrifies me is that it connects to my memories of being a teenager. I never turned into a misogynistic asshole, but I was a "nice guy" and crushed hard on a girl who had a boyfriend who treated her badly and she totally leaned on me for emotional support. I also had pretty low self-esteem and bad grooming habits. Somehow I managed to grow up and out of all of this, attempt to meet girls, (usually) not resent them for not wanting me, and find stable relationships. But if, during that vulnerable period of my teen years when I felt like an unlovable loser, I had found an online community to give me toxic comfort, I don't know what would have happened. I'd like to think I wouldn't have taken to the misogyny ever, but I certainly could see myself buying into "theories" about "how it really is."
I'm somewhat in the same boat.
I feel like I was just one wrong choice away from becoming one of them. It could have happened.
Yep. This sounds exactly right. This kind of slut-shaming toxicity is so counter-productive. Nobody benefits from it and the negative consequences are legion. It introduces all kinds of lies, mind games, hypocrisy and other poisonous things into what should be nice clean romance.
I feel like half this shit is trolls taking over and running with it like the flat earth shit.
Wishful thinking. Read Elliot Rodger's manifesto, in which he repeatedly fantasizes about establishing a dictatorship with laws similar to those.
Rodger is a patron saint to these people, and Trump, who is paving the way for the rights of women to be reduced, is their Messiah.
You're not alone. In my early teens I had some pretty fucked up opinions about women. Heck, I think at one point I made a song blaming women for all ills in the world. The great irony is that at the same time I actually turned down several girls. Basically, I was a fucking idiot, but back then no such hateful self-pity communities existed to reinforce the bad state I was in (in my language at least, before I knew english well enough) and I eventually became friends and more with various women which pulled me out of that terrible mindset.
I read down this rabbit hole a few days ago when I first saw this post. I'm a pretty stable, mellow, positive and upbeat guy, but as a single father raising 2 girls, this shit was fucking with me pretty deeply. Some of what I read I kept thinking had to be trolling or something, but a large percentage is legit. I had a hard time processing that this many guys who have problems with woman could go this fucking dark. I still don't know what to do or think. The whole thing is a mind fuck.
Yeah I was in the same boat as well. I think I was trending more toward MGTOW, foreveralone type person though.
I had a lot of anger/frustration but I never had any toxic beliefs or wish to take it out on anyone, I just figured that's how it is meant to be for me.
I was a teenager before internet access became widely available...hell I was using a 56k modem in 1997 and paying for the phone line for it. I remember being the shrimpy kid that girls didn't much care for between grades 8 - 11. Got bullied to boot. Combo that with other issues at home, and there you have a mighty fine set of ingredients.
If it weren't for a couple of good friends that were like me, but way, way more positive, then that could have been me as well. Hell, even WITH them, had I stayed at home and not pursued an education (with help), it still could have been. Now I'm at a point where I can look at myself in the mirror and love the fact that my ears are a little big and my nose is a little crooked. Hell, it's part of what makes me attractive. To me, anyway (now if I can only drop these last 10 or 15 lbs....).
As much as I want to say that a "counter" community of people that have woken to the fact that the path of self pity and entitlement is harmful, I think it ought to be the norm instead of a reaction.
Yeah, that was probably me too. It also helped that I had some friends who were girls throughout, especially in college. And this was all in the 1980s, so no online "support" communities.
For real. I went the "fuck it, let's get unreasonably deep into videogames" route instead and bam here I am but like you said I also for the longest time didn't have trolly internet people breathing down my neck 24/7. Scary stuff.
Like crabs in a bucket.This thread got me browsing /r/braincels. Such a harmful place.
Quite actively trying to get others to not try and improve themselves. And apparently the original version of this guy's post had a call to violence in it, but was removed. Sad and dangerous communities that don't help anyone get better.
Let people get the help they need. Don't drag them down into your pit.
I feel like that is normal. When you're dumb, inexperienced, and impressionable. You come up with a lot of stupid thoughts. Porn is probably the biggest sex education in the country and you basically have to fail to move on.
Ideally, you interact more, learn more, and move on. But as you said, they find that groups that just reinforce shit
There's no difference from pretending to be a member of a hate group "for the lawlz" and actually being a member of a hate group, especially when it ends in people getting killed.
It doesn't help that little boys are literally taught to hate girls, and not everybody undoes that learning.
I think that we also need to be clear...misunderstanding is often a direct path to hate. Boys are taught stuff like "women, can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em" and "no man can understand how a woman thinks" (or something along those lines). Oh and let's not forget that "PMS makes all women insane for 1/4 of their adult life".
Think of women and men as the same, young dudes. They have a brain in between their ears and a heart in their chest. Be a good person that does good things and is a source of (take your pick, the following is a buffet) humor, comfort, strength, camaraderie, empathy, playing the second fiddle, leading, warmth, wit, and a gajillion other things WITHOUT THE DRIVING INTENT TO MAKE GIRLS WANT TO FUCK YOU.
I know it's difficult when you're a teen and your brain just ain't getting the bloodflow you'd like in order to keep your thoughts clear, and that's putting it mildly. Shit, there are plenty of guys on this board that have been there, with their fair share of awkward boner and rejection stories. But the more you invest in yourself early on, the better the benefits. Mentally, physically, and even spiritually. People will see that.
And the bonus is that your perceived imperfections are what make you, you. Acknowledge them. Own them. Love yourself, honestly, first. Pretty tough to expect the world to do something that you currently don't.
I worry for my girls as well. People make a lot of jokes about women being bipolar and what not, but men seem to be the one's who shatter fucking hard. They can't deal with stress.
"I'm gay" and "I think rape should be legal" aren't ya know similar
I don't know if he identified as an incel but I'm willing to bet he wasn't having a lot of sex and that factored into his frustration.
Sometimes I feel like I got lucky. I was definitely bitter and angry because I couldn't have what other people were easily (perception is key) getting. Namely, romantic relationships. I grew up on the cusp of these communities forming, and with a small amount of digging I would have found 4chan and probably would've fallen deeper into that hole. I can vividly see the fork in the road.
The luck was that my best friend was a pretty charismatic dude and hung out with a broad array of people. I was the first one in my small group of friends to have a car, so I wound up driving my best friend and some of the people he hung out with around, and sooner or later this inevitably led to me meeting someone I liked. Since he was always in the car, too, I wasn't really "allowed" to be creepy. Since I was comfortable around him I was able to be comfortable with myself. Turns out that when you're given the opportunity to shine, people tend to really shine. Wound up meeting enough people that I had 2 girlfriends in my senior year of high school and had enough confidence at that point that I was able to go out and easily meet people and then ask girls out when I hit college. If I got rejected, that was fine, because I liked myself. I was still weird and awkward but eventually I grew out of that because nothing about those shitty, negative places appealed to me anymore. I couldn't relate.
At the end of the day, the opportunity to have a healthy relationship with another guy is what took me off of that negative road. I think teaching young men to treat women like people is necessary, but I also think it's important to teach young men to be vulnerable, honest, and open around other guys. A lot of the men in these groups seem like they've never had a positive relationship with anyone; man or woman alike. The only vulnerability they're showing is a meltdown.
I also see a lot of people talk about how ugly they are and how that makes them alone. I also, also see that people always recommend hitting the gym. If I'm being honest, that's bad advice. It was awful advice for me way back when (I'm 29 now). Showering, shaving, and not drinking a 12 pack of Mountain Dew helps a whole lot. Then it's mostly about passion. Being attractive will always help, sure. But man, it was a quick transition from shitty, negative, lonely guy once I started getting passionate about the things I loved.
Treating women like people, not objects to be won, is paramount and pretty much the biggest goal. But a first step up that mountain (which shouldn't be a fucking mountain but here we are) is having a positive relationship with your peers.
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I mean, have you seen the incel memes? They are pretty hilarious. Even my wife is addicted
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