[Homebrew] Outrun ported to Switch in just 5 hours

Tathanen · May 21, 2018

BernardoOne said:
what exclusive rights? There are no "exclusive rights to reproduce the copyrighted work". It's why emulators can't be taken down.

I see, I feel like your earlier language was claiming that the game itself could be legally copied with no issue, when what you're actually saying is that "building an emulator that can run an existing rom" is fine. Within that narrow scope, sure. Tho that's not really "porting" at all, it's writing a Switch emulator that is playing an illegal rom. If you are saying "porting a game is not illegal" as a catchall, though, that's obviously false, since the rom itself is an illegally obtained material.

BernardoOne · May 21, 2018

Tathanen said:
I see, I feel like your earlier language was claiming that the game itself could be legally copied with no issue, when what you're actually saying is that "building an emulator that can run an existing rom" is fine. Within that narrow scope, sure. Tho that's not really "porting" at all, it's writing a Switch emulator that is playing an illegal rom. If you are saying "porting a game is not illegal" as a catchall, though, that's obviously false, since the rom itself is an illegally obtained material.

You can buy a Outrun arcade, dump the game and port it.
So no, porting a game is not illegal.

Tathanen · May 21, 2018

BernardoOne said:
You can buy a Outrun arcade, dump the game and port it.
So no, porting a game is not illegal.

"Dumping" a game is, categorically, "copying" it. So yes, that is illegal. But I know I'm gonna get a whole lot of blowback from people who think all their romdumps are perfectly fine since they did it themselves.

Naner · May 21, 2018

Hopefully launch devices will always be homebrewable. I want to pick up a second one to use my older one for homebrew, but I can't justify getting one now. When a redesign comes along, however...

Zomba13 · May 21, 2018

Nice to see the Anti-Piracy Brigade in here defending the IP rights of Ferrari while using copyrighted IP as avatars.

McNum · May 21, 2018

BernardoOne said:
what exclusive rights? There are no "exclusive rights to reproduce the copyrighted work". It's why emulators can't be taken down.

No, emulators are legal because they're the same thing as a Virtual Machine. It is completely fine to write a tool that makes one kind of hardware pretend to be another. Be it running a VM on a server, or a SNES emulator on a PC. You just can't use pirated software in said emulator. But that should go without saying.

BernardoOne said:
At worst they could try to take down the video. Nothing more than that. There's nothing stopping me from porting literally every game that has ever existed, provided im not sharing the files myself.

Correct. If no one knows, no one cares.

This video is, however, using Outrun to increase visibility. That's a problem. Would we be discussing this if it wasn't Outrun or a similar old classic running there? You don't need to use Outrun to show off that you can run a game like that on the Switch. And it's certainly no great feat to say that the Switch can run Outrun, because, yeah. It can. Why wouldn't it? So why, explicitly Outrun, when less troublesome games could have been chosen?

For instance, I would suggest the Shareware version of Doom. Great game, runs on nearly anything, up to and including refrigerators, and no legal hassles at all. It's encouraged to run Doom on everything. So if someone gets Doom running, I'll happily join the applause. Just remember to only use the Shareware version.

Deleted member 16876 · May 21, 2018

Zomba13 said:
Nice to see the Anti-Piracy Brigade in here defending the IP rights of Ferrari while using copyrighted IP as avatars.

Ironic isn't it?

As if Ferrari cares about this.

BernardoOne · May 21, 2018

Tathanen said:
"Dumping" a game is, categorically, "copying" it. So yes, that is illegal. But I know I'm gonna get a whole lot of blowback from people who think all their romdumps are perfectly fine since they did it themselves.

False. Making a copy yourself and playing it on a emulator is under fair use. As seen in Sony vs Bleem or Nintendo vs Game Genie.

Not to mention America isn't the world either.

maximumzero · May 21, 2018

This is downright hilarious. You would think that Nintendo would have sealed up the cracks in their shit after their hardware has been consecutively cracked over the past few generations.

I feel like this is the earliest homebrew/piracy on a Nintendo platform in its lifespan since maybe the GBA.

Jonneh · May 21, 2018

mute said:
Hey Sega let me give you money for this.

They'll let you do that when the Sega Ages line comes out

Starlatine · May 21, 2018

Tathanen said:
"Dumping" a game is, categorically, "copying" it. So yes, that is illegal. But I know I'm gonna get a whole lot of blowback from people who think all their romdumps are perfectly fine since they did it themselves.

you're going to get blowback because you're wrong

dumping your own copy for your own personal use is not illegal. specially most places outside of america

Jebusman · May 21, 2018

BernardoOne said:
False. Making a copy yourself and playing it on a emulator is under fair use. As seen in Sony vs Bleem or Nintendo vs Game Genie

Making a copy for yourself isn't actually under US fair use, it's just something that all companies don't aggressive go after their customers for. There's nothing stopping them from suing you, other than the massive PR hit they would take (which is why the RIAA stopped doing it years ago). "Fair use" isn't some hard rule, it's determined on a case by case basis. So right now making a copy of a game for yourself without the copyright owner's permission isn't automatically "fair use", but a court battle would be costly and ultimately is likely to side with the consumer.

Sony vs Bleem was more about the fact that the emulator existed at all, they weren't suing over the fact that people were ripping games. Which wasn't even technically a requirement, as the games would be actual PS1 discs running in your drive.

Nintendo vs Galoob has almost nothing to do with emulation/copying so I don't even know why you're referring to that.

Like if you want to rally for why what he did was perfectly legal (something I don't entirely disagree with), at least try to properly source reasons.

SoyUnPixel · May 21, 2018

Poor Ferrari must be hurting because one small/niche Youtuber used one sprite of their cars for something that he isn't even including on what he's distributing.

On topic: Modern Vintage Gamer created a lot of stuff for the original Xbox in terms of Homebrew, pretty cool dude.

Bluelote · May 21, 2018

maximumzero said:
This is downright hilarious. You would think that Nintendo would have sealed up the cracks in their shit after their hardware has been consecutively cracked over the past few generations.

I feel like this is the earliest homebrew/piracy on a Nintendo platform in its lifespan since maybe the GBA.

the fault is with Nvidia, it's an issue of Tegra X1, the same method works for hacking any Tegra X1 device, not just the switch.

lobdale · May 21, 2018

Jebusman said:
Making a copy for yourself isn't actually under fair use, it's just something that all companies don't aggressive go after their customers for. There's nothing stopping them from suing you, other than the massive PR hit they would take (which is why the RIAA stopped doing it years ago).

Sony vs Bleem was more about the fact that the emulator existed at all, they weren't suing over the fact that people were ripping games. Which wasn't even technically a requirement, as the games would be actual PS1 discs running in your drive.

Nintendo vs Galoob has almost nothing to do with emulation/copying so I don't even know why you're referring to that.

Like if you want to rally for why what he did was perfectly legal, at least try to properly source reasons.

Yeah Bleem was just an emulator that ran legally purchased factory discs, and the Game Genie suit only ruled that because it was realtime modification to the (legally purchased) program, no actual secondary work was created and it wasn't a copy, cases that followed that ruled that things like time shifting were allowed because no copy was ever made.

Deleted member 3010 · May 21, 2018

And as per protocol and obligation, a thread about progress on the Switch's homebrew scene is tarnished by piracy talk.

Thanks guys, always on the lookout to shit every. single. threads.

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/th...-build-your-own-legitimate-rom-library.37867/

Tathanen · May 21, 2018

BernardoOne said:
False. Making a copy yourself and playing it on a emulator is under fair use. As seen in Sony vs Bleem or Nintendo vs Game Genie.

Not to mention America isn't the world either.

Starlatine said:
you're going to get blowback because you're wrong

dumping your own copy for your own personal use is not illegal. specially most places outside of america

Hey, I'm happy to be proven wrong, I don't actually have any stake here. I cited some actual legal sources tho, and per Jebusman it doesn't look like there have been any actual legal counterpoints provided.

Though yes, for sure, I am taking an America-centric stance here. I can't speak for what's legal elsewhere.

Zomba13 said:
Nice to see the Anti-Piracy Brigade in here defending the IP rights of Ferrari while using copyrighted IP as avatars.

I know this is just a limp attempt at a zinger, but avatars fall pretty squarely within fair use, along with most images on the internet.

lobdale · May 21, 2018

Seik said:
And as per protocol and obligation, a thread about progress on the Switch's homebrew scene is tarnished by piracy talk.

Thanks guys, always on the lookout to shit every. single. threads.

Thread was DOA without it, there's nothing else to talk about when it comes to this stuff yet since nothing really exists for anyone to play around with.

Jebusman · May 21, 2018

Tathanen said:
Hey, I'm happy to be proven wrong, I don't actually have any stake here. I cited some actual legal sources tho, and per Jebusman it doesn't look like there have been any actual legal counterpoints provided.

Though yes, for sure, I am taking an America-centric stance here. I can't speak for what's legal elsewhere.

I mean I'd still personally side with the consumer on ROM ripping, but only for people who still own physical copies of the games in question.

If you borrowed a cartridge from someone, ripped it, and gave it back, you're engaging in piracy. You don't actually own a legal copy of the game in question.

If you do own the cartridge (or more relevant to this thread, the Outrun arcade PCB) and rip it, it's a legal gray area that most companies won't ever come after you for, mostly because A. How are they supposed to find out you did it in the first place, and B. A real good way to burn good will with your customers is to sue them.

Tathanen · May 21, 2018

Jebusman said:
I mean I'd still personally side with the consumer on ROM ripping, but only for people who still own physical copies of the games in question.

If you borrowed a cartridge from someone, ripped it, and gave it back, you're engaging in piracy. You don't actually own a legal copy of the game in question.

If you do own the cartridge (or more relevant to this thread, the Outrun arcade PCB) and rip it, it's a legal gray area that most companies won't ever come after you for, mostly because A. How are they supposed to find out you did it in the first place, and B. A real good way to burn good will with your customers is to sue them.

Sure, and just to put this out here, I'm not arguing that "wow this is horrible and bad and should be stopped." I'm just interested in understanding the actual legality. I can certainly concede to "gray area," but not so much this "it's perfectly absolutely fine" that's been bandied about in here.

Jebusman · May 21, 2018

Tathanen said:
Sure, and just to put this out here, I'm not arguing that "wow this is horrible and bad and should be stopped." I'm just interested in understanding the actual legality. I can certainly concede to "gray area," but not so much this "it's perfectly absolutely fine" that's been bandied about in here.

In this case the legality is perfectly sound:

He didn't port the actual game Outrun to the switch, he ported a custom engine someone designed known as Cannonball:

https://github.com/djyt/cannonball/wiki

This is essentially a re-implementation of the Outrun engine done in modern code. Presumably it was done entirely cleanroom (as in, not looking/copying any of the original code), this is just an emulator/interpreter that doesn't contain any code from the game itself.

In order to make it work, YOU have to supply a .zip copy of the Outrun ROM, and the engine will then pull the assets from the ROM in order to run.

The program itself doesn't contain any of the copyrighted code, so it's perfectly legal.

I feel like that's where some of the confusion lies, because saying "I ported an emulator that can run the outrun ROM" is a little different than "I ported outrun", because one implies copying the actual assets, the other doesn't.

McNum · May 21, 2018

lobdale said:
Thread was DOA without it, there's nothing else to talk about when it comes to this stuff yet since nothing really exists for anyone to play around with.

Yeah, there's not really much to say other than "Huh, neat!" and "Uh, is that legal?" when the thread is about something that exists with little else.

I will add, I'm not trying to be a party pooper here. As I said, it is impressive. I'm just worried that people are getting into needless trouble. If you can do two equally impressive things, where one can't ever get you in trouble, and one risks you getting in trouble, even if the risk is minor, why do the second one?

There is, after all, a reason that Doom runs on everything. Apart from "because you can" (A printer? A single key on a keyboard? An Ultrasound machine? It. Runs. DOOM!), because also, well, because you can. Doom is open source and the Shareware version may be installed anywhere. So run Doom. It's fun. Run it on toasters, on ATMs (actually don't do that), or anything that has a screen and inputs.

Using Outrun to show this off is just a needless risk when other options were available.

caff!!! · May 21, 2018

Cannonball is a pretty cool emulator for outrun, nice to see a quick port as a future of homebrew stuff.

Zomba13 said:
Nice to see the Anti-Piracy Brigade in here defending the IP rights of Ferrari while using copyrighted IP as avatars.

my avatar is used with the permission of the creator

Tathanen · May 21, 2018

Jebusman said:
The program itself doesn't contain any of the copyrighted code, so it's perfectly legal.

Fair enough! Yeah the emulator bit in isolation definitely seems to be fine.

DigitalOp · May 21, 2018

McNum said:
Yeah, there's not really much to say other than "Huh, neat!" and "Uh, is that legal?" when the thread is about something that exists with little else.

I will add, I'm not trying to be a party pooper here. As I said, it is impressive. I'm just worried that people are getting into needless trouble. If you can do two equally impressive things, where one can't ever get you in trouble, and one risks you getting in trouble, even if the risk is minor, why do the second one?

There is, after all, a reason that Doom runs on everything. Apart from "because you can" (A printer? A single key on a keyboard? An Ultrasound machine? It. Runs. DOOM!), because also, well, because you can. Doom is open source and the Shareware version may be installed anywhere. So run Doom. It's fun. Run it on toasters, on ATMs (actually don't do that), or anything that has a screen and inputs.

Using Outrun to show this off is just a needless risk when other options were available.

Bruh your whining is incredibly pendantic

Rather sad even.

It's an old ass game. Everyone will live.

rare · May 21, 2018

So wait, does it work on the latest FW? Does it also risk my switch getting banned?

Deleted member 3010 · May 21, 2018

McNum said:
Yeah, there's not really much to say other than "Huh, neat!" and "Uh, is that legal?" when the thread is about something that exists with little else.

I will add, I'm not trying to be a party pooper here. As I said, it is impressive. I'm just worried that people are getting into needless trouble. If you can do two equally impressive things, where one can't ever get you in trouble, and one risks you getting in trouble, even if the risk is minor, why do the second one?

There is, after all, a reason that Doom runs on everything. Apart from "because you can" (A printer? A single key on a keyboard? An Ultrasound machine? It. Runs. DOOM!), because also, well, because you can. Doom is open source and the Shareware version may be installed anywhere. So run Doom. It's fun. Run it on toasters, on ATMs (actually don't do that), or anything that has a screen and inputs.

Using Outrun to show this off is just a needless risk when other options were available.

This doesn't warrant a full derail of the thread into legal matters.

This man can use Outrun as he possess the game and ripped his own stuff. There's no 'risk' there.

Deleted member 21709 · May 21, 2018

This is cool.

Will gladly wait on M2's superior Sega Ages release.

Can I also have Outrun 2 please.

Windrunner · May 21, 2018

McNum said:
Yeah, there's not really much to say other than "Huh, neat!" and "Uh, is that legal?" when the thread is about something that exists with little else.

This is a video that shows how to exploit your Switch, MVG's Cannonball port as well as a guide to writing your own homebrew. Assuming you watched it.

It can spawn much better discussion than another tedious piracy debate.

McNum · May 21, 2018

DigitalOp said:
Bruh your whining is incredibly pendantic

Rather sad even.

It's an old ass game. Everyone will live.

Not older than Mickey Mouse, though. Which I will happily admit is a whole different problem.

I will also add that the discussions we've had after I asked the scary questions has actually turned pretty interesting. I didn't know that Cannonball was a thing. That certainly changes things a bit. Though that is still the real Ferrari, but if he dumped the ROM from an arcade board and runs in on a Switch emulating that arcade board, it's... eh, depends on the local details now. Not entirely white, but probably not black either.

I ask because I care. Both that people don't get in needless trouble and that old games aren't undermined by piracy. And I'll admit there's a lot of details about this I don't know, so I ask.

As an aside, I would buy an official Outrun port for Switch, get the 3DS one and make it in HD and I'll buy it. Outrun is fun.

delete12345 · May 22, 2018

Killyoh said:
Amazing. People are so fast nowadays. And it seems to run very well !

Because it's a standardized machine, not with custom in-house development libraries and obscured documentations.

TastyBurger666 · May 22, 2018

He didn't port OutRun. He ported Cannonball, which's a fan remake of OutRun.

Amiibola · May 22, 2018

Switch being a off the shelf Tegra X1 will make it a paradise for Homebrew and emulation.

Ok, somehow seeing this hyped me to hell and back.

lordlad · May 22, 2018

I just need those emulators especially gba, snes & ps1

patientx · May 22, 2018

TastyBurger666 said:
He didn't port OutRun. He ported Cannonball, which's a fan remake of OutRun.

Which, no one here actually noticed it seems.

TastyBurger666 · May 22, 2018

patientx said:
Which, no one here actually noticed it seems.

I think that if he'd put 'I ported Cannonball' as the YouTube title it wouldn't have got so much attention!

nogoodnamesleft · May 22, 2018

Oh cool, we went one full page this time without people shitting up a homebrew thread with piracy shit

horkrux · May 22, 2018

TastyBurger666 said:
He didn't port OutRun. He ported Cannonball, which's a fan remake of OutRun.

Ah. I was very confused by the title, but this basically clears it up

Windrunner · May 22, 2018

patientx said:
Which, no one here actually noticed it seems.

You obviously haven't read the thread. Do a word search on Cannonball.

noyram23 · May 22, 2018

My 2nd Switch is ready, hopefully they can port a PS4 remoteplay and PC remoteplay apps too.

Fularu · May 22, 2018

sirap said:
sogood.gif

I've been eyeing the GBA emulator someone's ported. It's almost there...I can finally ditch my GBA and cartridges.

Nope

Original hardware is always better for old handhelds :p

Something about the screens not rendering well on modern displays and needing prety powerfull shaders to pull it off.

But maybe the Switch will be able to handle them

TastyBurger666 · May 22, 2018

Windrunner said:
You obviously haven't read the thread. Do a word search on Cannonball.

Ah, sorry, was it mentioned already?

Antony · May 22, 2018

Man Out Run looks good on that screen!

Shaneus · May 28, 2018

What the fuck happened in this thread?!?

HotHamBoy said:
I really hope it's possible for us to play all the removed Pinball Arcade tables one day.

I assume someone would have to dump them, though, and I fear it won't happen as the window for purchasing $210 worth of content was just a few hours.

My theory: The Switch is basically an nVidia Shield, one day the Shield OS (or whatever) will be ported and we can just play that one or the Android port.

Amiibola · May 28, 2018

TastyBurger666 said:
He didn't port OutRun. He ported Cannonball, which's a fan remake of OutRun.

Not exactly. It's an interpreter for OutRun. It still need the original arcade rom (Version B) to run.

Creepy Woody · May 28, 2018

The game looks so nice on that screen.

petran79 · May 28, 2018

lobdale said:
Um, and I'm sure he has the license to port the actual Outrun code? Somehow I doubt licensing agreements were at the top of this dude's mind.

As long as he owns the game and is for personal home use. I once bought a game for DOS and developers did not mind if I played the Amiga version via emulation.

Strings · May 28, 2018

Your move hundred million dollar companies working with infinitely more complex releases.

Your. Move.

HotHamBoy · May 28, 2018

Shaneus said:
What the fuck happened in this thread?!?

My theory: The Switch is basically an nVidia Shield, one day the Shield OS (or whatever) will be ported and we can just play that one or the Android port.

But the Android port sucks compared to the Switch port...

[Homebrew] Outrun ported to Switch in just 5 hours

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