This fucking incel shit has got to stop.

I feel more and more of society is teetering into more and more extremism as the world pushes to be more equal. I just hope the good guys win, some days its just draining when you read about people who legit are pretty much disgusting people who devalue the lives of women minorities etc.

Klyka said:

Ok yeah I've been digging too deep into this shit, I gotta take a break from this, I'm out for now.

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These men seem well balanced. No school shootings here, no sirree

CrocM said:

I agree that calling this kid an "incel" is jumping the gun. Roping everyone who has similar issues into this community is wrong.

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I must also digress. I did some research and calmed down a bit after my admittedly knee jerky post before. I have heard "incel" being thrown around as a dark joke in friend groups recently. I asked what it meant and i was just told it was "someone who nobody wants to fuck". I was just not aware that there has been grown a dedicated subculture that is similar to the worst people of 4chan where Incel is twisted into somehing that perpetuates destructive ideals and actions. That is indeed pretty disturbing :/

Jordan Peterson needs to be ostracized and ruined for helping popularize this shit. Hopefully he becomes Milo 2.0 and has his life fall apart.

7threst said:

That's the first thing that comes to mind yes. But then I read a thread today on an incel-exclusive forum where Dutch incels of colour use their colour as an axtra argument that supports their behaviour and thinking. It surprised me, because these same people laugh on that forum when somebody valled someone a coon.

I just don't find logic, meaning or something else of worth in that whole movement, if you can call it that. It is a problem worth adressing though and thus it should be taken seriously imo.

Edit: just noticed the forum I speak of is mentioned on this page. I didn't think it would be a good idea to link to it tbh

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Yeah I read a thing where someone argued that white people can't actually be incels because they're objectively the most attractive race + can go to Asia and get laid easily lol.

Raguel said:

Look into that guys history and you'll get your response.

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lol thanks for the heads up

sleepInsom said:

I don't think there's any point in furthering our discussion since you're not comprehending what I'm saying and aren't providing anything to support your arguments. I'm not particularly interested in navel-gazing regarding this issue.

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I'm comprehending what you're saying just fine. You are not comprehending what I'm saying no matter how explicitly I say it or how many times I repeat it.

"MGTOWs" are a subculture that is connected to and included under toxic masculinity, but we have a word for it that addresses that specific group.

"Incels" are a subculture that is connected to and included under toxic masculinity, but we should have a word for it that addresses that specific group that's not "incels who self-identify as incels and post about being incels online on incel forums, and are not random unrelated people who also don't have sex and hate women while slut-shaming them but have never seen the word incel". And my suggestion for that word is: "incels".

Is that any clearer? How much clearer can I possibly make this? Honestly, what do you even think I'm saying here?

I'm literally just saying that the word should refer to the distinct subculture that formed around the word, so that it can be discussed without including every man who ever thought he had a right to a woman's body (and potentially acted violently as a result), because they're a specific subset of that. I'm not defending them or naval-gazing or whatever you've decided, I just think it's better if we have words that aren't needlessly expanded to cover shit we can just call out for what it is directly instead of having to do it through the word we're expanding, that's it, that's all.

Meanwhile I have 0 idea what you think I'm saying at this point, because you keep selectively replying to bits of my posts without ever actually anything explaining yourself or what issue you have. I gave examples of why someone would want to talk about incel communities without including every person who etc. etc. and apparently that's not providing anything to you? I even asked you what you'd rather call them instead. But apparently that's suddenly all "navel-gazing" because ????

It's pretty amazing to be honest.

Decades of feeding into the fears/hatred of white men has created domestic white terrorists and republicans are losing control of said terrorists.

Maybe it's time to label the republican party a terrorist org.

VectorPrime said:

Jordan Peterson needs to be ostracized and ruined for helping popularize this shit. Hopefully he becomes Milo 2.0 and has his life fall apart.

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I'd be interested in seeing whether his recent comments about forcing women to be monogomous yields any backlash. As far as I know, it wasn't met with too much controversy.

Do we have confirmation that the Santa Fe shooter was an incel as well?

AztecComplex said:

Do we have confirmation that the Santa Fee shooter was an incel as well?

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No, as far as I know there is absolutely nothing to indicate that currently.

VectorPrime said:

Jordan Peterson needs to be ostracized and ruined for helping popularize this shit. Hopefully he becomes Milo 2.0 and has his life fall apart.

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His book is super popular and he teaches at Canada's most prestigious university based on University rankings. Nothing can happen outside of imprisonment that makes his life fall apart. He has already won which is the sad part.

deepFlaw said:

No, as far as I know there is absolutely nothing to indicate that currently.

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Thats what I thought.

it's more like a beta rebellion

I kinda see incel culture as an extremist pushback to women's empowerment in the world.

For instance, think of how dating works nowadays among young people. The tables have completely turned and women run the show. They use Tinder and judge men on the app the way men are stereotypically accused of judging women. Women will put "Must be at least 6' tall" in their Tinder bios and get to dismiss guys with a single swipe simply based on looks.

Then look at something like Bumble where the men can't message women unless the women approve and give the man consent to message them. Women hold the power. Essentially, they have to make the first move that men have been stereotypically expected to make for years.

I think this new system is great and it shakes up the gender norms we've had for the dating scene for far too long. But, with this newfound empowerment has come an extremely toxic pushback from guys who simply don't get it. The idea that because you're a man in need, another person's body is entitled to you is flat out crazy. As a society, the effects of a lack of human interaction because of the internet and social media is rearing its ugly head and leading us very quickly towards disaster.

MindofKB said:

I kinda see incel culture as an extremist pushback to women's empowerment in the world.

For instance, think of how dating works nowadays among young people. The tables have completely turned and women run the show. They use Tinder and just men on the app the way men are stereotypically accused of judging women. Women will put "Must be at least 6' tall" in their Tinder bios and get to dismiss guys with a single swipe simply based on looks.

The look at something like Bumble where the men can't message women unless the women approve and give the man consent to message them. Women hold the power. Essentially, they have to make the first move that men have been stereotypically expected to make for years.

I think this new system is great and it shakes up the gender norms we've had for the dating scene for far too long. But, with this newfound empowerment has come an extremely toxic pushback from guys who simply don't get it. The idea that because you're a man in need, another person's body is entitled to you is flat out crazy. As a society, the effects of a lack of human interaction because of the internet and social media is rearing its ugly head and leading us very quickly towards disaster.

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Forget internet dating... these people want to roll back dating to the 18th century where a teen bride was basically given to a feudal lord.

Flo_Evans said:

Forget internet dating... these people want to roll back dating to the 18th century where a teen bride was basically given to a feudal lord.

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And these losers believe they're the feudal lords. It would be funny if these assumptions didn't have such frightening consequences.

platocplx said:

I feel more and more of society is teetering into more and more extremism as the world pushes to be more equal. I just hope the good guys win, some days its just draining when you read about people who legit are pretty much disgusting people who devalue the lives of women minorities etc.

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I'd say it's happening by design. The same shitheads that funded Milo are probably making deposits into Peterson's patreon.

Someone is funding assholes.

Kernel said:

I'd say it's happening by design. The same shitheads that funded Milo are probably making deposits into Peterson's patreon.

Someone is funding assholes.

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Its about funding and also how mainstream social platforms are trying to not pick a side and not allow these people to congregate and find eachother so easily.

These companies need to have values on what they allow or dont allow. You literally have facebook etc allowing people to have groups etc with this shit but will take down a pic of a womans breast. it makes no sense.

what really kills me about these guys is how the first line they trot out is the girls only dating above a certain height preference. there is something deeply funny, disturbing and sad about guys that complain about girls having requirements while they maintain that there is some sort of mathematical equation that can be used to determine the size and length of labia with correlation to how many partners they have had.

platocplx said:

I feel more and more of society is teetering into more and more extremism as the world pushes to be more equal. I just hope the good guys win, some days its just draining when you read about people who legit are pretty much disgusting people who devalue the lives of women minorities etc.

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Nah man. These are just the dying throes of lame-ass status quo idiots trying to claw their way back into acceptance while everyone else is moving on toward not being shitheads. At least that's my hope.

MindofKB said:

I kinda see incel culture as an extremist pushback to women's empowerment in the world.

For instance, think of how dating works nowadays among young people. The tables have completely turned and women run the show. They use Tinder and judge men on the app the way men are stereotypically accused of judging women. Women will put "Must be at least 6' tall" in their Tinder bios and get to dismiss guys with a single swipe simply based on looks.

Then look at something like Bumble where the men can't message women unless the women approve and give the man consent to message them. Women hold the power. Essentially, they have to make the first move that men have been stereotypically expected to make for years.

I think this new system is great and it shakes up the gender norms we've had for the dating scene for far too long. But, with this newfound empowerment has come an extremely toxic pushback from guys who simply don't get it. The idea that because you're a man in need, another person's body is entitled to you is flat out crazy. As a society, the effects of a lack of human interaction because of the internet and social media is rearing its ugly head and leading us very quickly towards disaster.

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Even before women empowerment they would have been assed out. For them to have married what they feel is the idealized woman back then would have taken resources they don't have aka wealth and status.

This if we are gonna take this bullshit to the logical misogynistic extreme and say women are a commodity what makes them think they would have the societal status back then that they don't have now.

Women's sexual liberation helped them rather than hurt them since the field is 'flat' for everyone. Everyone's got a story of a friend who effectively 'punched above their weight' in the modern era which have been less likely in ye olden days that they pine for when women had to tie their well being to the men that could most easily provide or else have a horrible quality of life

TyrantGuardian said:

Nah man. These are just the dying throes of lame-ass status quo idiots trying to claw their way back into acceptance while everyone else is moving on toward not being shitheads. At least that's my hope.

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I cant even hope at this point. Im literally right now arguing with someone about how toxic femininity and toxic masculinity are not even the same thing over a stupid ass tweet someone posted about fathers day being bad for same sex couples and single mothers.

Its total nonsnse but this person literally put "toxic feminity" like a hand grenade and though they were doing something.

Klyka said:

Found another crazy insight into the mindset of the incels

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"Now you know the true nature of women".
Yup, you sure showed us.

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The bitterness.........is astounding.
What's happening to these kids to make them view the world in such a way
I feel more pity than disgust

Klyka said:

Found another crazy insight into the mindset of the incels

"Now you know the true nature of women".
Yup, you sure showed us.

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Jesus.

Klyka said:

Found another crazy insight into the mindset of the incels

"Now you know the true nature of women".
Yup, you sure showed us.

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Yeah no woman has ever had sex with, been in a relationship with or married someone smart & women just aren't satisfied unless they know their man is always just on the verge of spilling their blood in one form or another.

Like this stuff reads like parody and too many people will dismiss it and say that it must be but this is 100% the real life mindset of a frightening number of men. Logic goes out the window because they despise women for not being wells of unconditional love for their pathetic selves and holes they can use to get off.

Klyka said:

This right here is what they want

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That reminds me of this that I found on /r/choosingbeggars:
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AegonSnake said:

Wow. Insulting an entire forum just because you are the one who hasn't been keeping up with the news. What an awful post.

Bbc: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/world-us-canada-43892189

Bill Maher: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=DyGOYA-U_uc

Ny Times: https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile...le/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.amp.html

Cnn: https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cn...alek-minassian-toronto-attack-trnd/index.html

Even fox news is less ignorant than you: http://video.foxnews.com/v/5775877533001/?#sp=show-clips

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sorry i don't follow fake news.

oh wait? I know that word, so i must follow something about America's state of affairs. not that ignorant.

Rhomega said:

That reminds me of this that I found on /r/choosingbeggars:
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Amazing

Jasnah said:

Does anyone here know an "incel" personally in real life? Not the obvious trashbag murderous ones. More like the type who is open about this crap in public or seems to have opinions leaning towards this philosophy through behavior alone. I don't have any experience and no joke, I assume they'd be too scared to be within 30 feet of women to begin with.

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I knew a guy in college (this would be around 2000) who I wouldn't be surprised is an incel today. But this was back before social media, so it wasn't really a thing.

We took karate together...he was unattractive, nerdy, skinny. But also kind of an asshole. But it seemed like his attitude was a response to all the bullying he'd received. In fact, he straight up told me he was taking karate to get back at the people who bullied him. He never talked about his views on women, but I wouldn't be surprised if he held incel-like views about that too.

Rhomega said:

That reminds me of this that I found on /r/choosingbeggars:
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Jesus.

I'm still confused at how "incels" are turning violent if they're supposed to be about wallowing in self-defeating "betaness".

I think there's some real danger of this so-called "movement" with respect to mental illness, because from everything that I have read, genuinely believing that one is not worthy of being loved is a potential tell of clinical depression. If instead of getting legitimate help a depressed individual gets wrapped up in this horseshit, that's pretty dangerous.

Rhomega said:

That reminds me of this that I found on /r/choosingbeggars:
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About what I expected.

andymcc said:

what really kills me about these guys is how the first line they trot out is the girls only dating above a certain height preference. there is something deeply funny, disturbing and sad about guys that complain about girls having requirements while they maintain that there is some sort of mathematical equation that can be used to determine the size and length of labia with correlation to how many partners they have had.

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The whole concept of this hate group is pathetic.

CrocM said:

It's just so baffling to me that they see such limited options for themselves. It's either get a partner or "LDAR". How do they not see all the other possibilities life presents?

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Because they don't want to see? Or because they are mentally ill. Take your pick.

Klyka said:

Found another crazy insight into the mindset of the incels

"Now you know the true nature of women".
Yup, you sure showed us.

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I'm beyond repulsed. This is actually making me nauseated. What the actual fuck?

Not going to agree with that whole forced monogamy type thing, but to suggest that incels just accept being sexless good boys is kind of laughable. You take away women and men get frustrated and aggressive. That's just a given. This whole hookup culture can't be helping with that. Online dating in general has destroyed monogamous culture, IMO. Just from reading on here and the old board, you can see that all of the women gravitate towards the top tier men, leaving the bottom 80% or so with nothing; and yes, I am exaggerating on that percentage. Any average male dating in the 90s and early 00s could see that it was easier to find romance back then, than it is today, because people have too many options now. Back then, you might have one very attractive guy dating all of the girls in his small circle, but now, that same guy has further reach, thanks to Tinder, Instagram, etc..

Rhomega said:

That reminds me of this that I found on /r/choosingbeggars:
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"The last one is necessary so I know you're actually a woman and not some middle-age British pervert."

Wait, as awful as this whole thing is, I laughed at this. I want to know the history of events that sparked the need for this to be included.

Rhomega said:

That reminds me of this that I found on /r/choosingbeggars:
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This is like the exact opposite of that Shania Twain song "Any Man of Mine"

deussupreme said:

Not going to agree with that whole forced monogamy type thing, but to suggest that incels just accept being sexless good boys is kind of laughable. You take away women and men get frustrated and aggressive. That's just a given. This whole hookup culture can't be helping with that. Online dating in general has destroyed monogamous culture, IMO. Just from reading on here and the old board, you can see that all of the women gravitate towards the top tier men, leaving the bottom 80% or so with nothing; and yes, I am exaggerating on that percentage. Any average male dating in the 90s and early 00s could see that it was easier to find romance back then, than it is today, because people have too many options now. Back then, you might have one very attractive guy dating all of the girls in his small circle, but now, that same guy has further reach, thanks to Tinder, Instagram, etc..

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What is a top tier man? Are said men also taking away all the non-top tier women?

What are you talking about?

In the past I have been at risk of falling into that rabbit hole. I used to browse /r/foreveralone sometimes and wonder 'is this me'. Should I be worried about myself regarding this?

Tahnit said:

I just submitted a tip to tips.fbi.gov about incels.me. I encourage the rest of you to do the same. This shit needs to be shut the fuck down.

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Good luck unless they have "black identity extremists" among them.

TyrantGuardian said:

Nah man. These are just the dying throes of lame-ass status quo idiots trying to claw their way back into acceptance while everyone else is moving on toward not being shitheads. At least that's my hope.

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Boy, that would be nice. In early 2016, even with the mantra that things have to get worse before they get better in mind, I didn't really expect the pushback to Internet-spurred societal equality to take this form.

ZOONAMI said:

What is a top tier man? Are said men also taking away all the non-top tier women?

What are you talking about?

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It's not that hard to understand that the most attractive man will attract most of the women within his reach. It's common sense that numerous research studies have proven already. There are a few Match and OKCupid studies floating around on it as well. If you're asking me to define "attractive' or "top tier", you and I both know that it is open to interpretation based on culture.

EDIT: Found one such study http://jonmillward.com/blog/attraction-dating/cupid-on-trial-a-4-month-online-dating-experiment/

deussupreme said:

Online dating in general has destroyed monogamous culture, IMO.

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Millions of people have met spouses online. My own sister met her husband on Hinge.

Your post is not really true at all.

Sutarufosu said:

How would you even make this work?

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*call meeting*

"Raise your hand if you're an incel"

*Incels raise hands*

deussupreme said:

It's not that hard to understand that the most attractive man will attract most of the women within his reach. It's common sense that numerous research studies have proven already. There are a few Match and OKCupid studies floating around on it as well. if you're asking me to define "attractive' or "top tier", you and I both know that it is open to interpretation based on culture.

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So date within your league. It's not that hard.

supremeplatypus said:

In the past I have been at risk of falling into that rabbit hole. I used to browse /r/foreveralone sometimes and wonder 'is this me'. Should I be worried about myself regarding this?

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It's totally ok to feel lonely, or sad. It's ok to have trouble getting into a relationship or sex. There are many, many lonely men and women out there who don't resort to hatred or violence. They don't buy guns, they'll just get a dog or cat or hang out with friends. Incels, MRAs, MGTOWs, etc. are all hate groups that direct their hate towards women. Don't hate women or think we're less human? Congrats, you're not an incel. Incel is a label they adopt for themselves. If you reject that label, you're not an incel.

I had a cousin who was at risk of falling into this himself. He was in his early 20's with no sexual or romantic experience. He always complained about women not being interested in him, when in reality there were a couple. He either refused to see it because they weren't '7/10 or above' or because he lacked the social awareness. Thankfully, he just took a dive and asked a friend on a date and it went great. Yeah, she's just an average looking girl, but he's happily engaged to her now and thinks she's gorgeous. Love has a way of enhancing how you perceive your partner. A lot of these guys set their expectations unreasonably high.

Peltz said:

Millions of people have met spouses online. My own sister met her husband on Hinge.

Your post is not really true at all.

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I never said that people never get into relationships online. I met my wife online.

Peltz said:

So date within your league. It's not that hard.

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The problem is that what may have been "In your league" twenty years ago may not be "In your league" today due to how online dating has raised the bar for men.