Daniel Vavra (Kingdom Come Deliverance) cancels his visit to Gamelab; Spanish development conference

Alice_from_wonderland · May 21, 2018

Relaxed Muscle said:
He's a racist and a xenophobe nationalist which game tries to paint any non-czech character as villains or beasts.

I think Nazi/Fascist is a good description of him.

Wrong on every count. I am not surprised he is fed up with being painted as nazi when is "crime" is at worst, disagreeing with Anita Sarkeesian and being rude on twitter and liking/retweeting some tweets from "wrong" people.

LewieP said:
I wonder if the insults were "you are a racist".

Such a snowflake.

Would you like to be called racist when you are not one? Would you like to be called nazi when you are not one and have personal history with that level of oppression?

Starlatine · May 21, 2018

Zacmortar said:
While normally harassment is horrific, gamergators especially deserve a dishing of their own medicine imo.

we'll have to agree to disagree on this "bad people deserves a taste of their own bad actions" then. this kind of justice with your own hands is not something i condone or find right

Platy said:
While I agree with you with the man up part, iwannaseethereceipts.jpg
because for all we know it can just be people rightfully calling him a sexist and racist which he showed more than enought to be.

People are talking about death threats without a single linked tweet having the word. The OP even use insults instead of harassment.

i'm talking about people in this thread, not the people tweeting back at vavra or the supposed insult that made him give up on gamelab. i have better things to do than follow his tweets. i never mentioned death threats at all, are you quoting the right person?

negative-space · May 21, 2018

His Majesty said:
Guy has received death threats in the past, really funny huh? People cheering for harassment here, shades of NeoGAF.

This. I guess it's OK for someone you dislike to be harassed though. That doesn't count, right?

MazeHaze · May 21, 2018

Nobody deserves harassment, I just find it ironic that he supported gamergate, a campaign centered around harassing women, and now he's saying harassment is bad.

Drek · May 21, 2018

KoolAid said:
You're implying that's the only tweet that made him not want to go

I'd say they're more pointing out the absurdity of all the people in this thread quoting labpleb's post with that very quote in Spanish with various degrees of "so you endorse harassment!" accusations.

There are people showing their ass in this thread for sure though.

Alice_from_wonderland said:
Wrong on every count. I am not surprised he is fed up with being painted as nazi when is "crime" is at worst, disagreeing with Anita Sarkeesian and being rude on twitter and liking/retweeting some tweets from "wrong" people.

He created a piece of media that is overtly white ethnocentric revisionist history, FYI. Bit more than just disagreeing with Sarkeesian.

Is that full on "the Holocaust didn't happen"? White ethnostate revisionist history? Not quite, but it's a branch on that same family tree.

Deleted member 39587 · May 21, 2018

Tarot Deck said:
Calling someone a Nazi is heavy stuff, but it was normalized recently, especially in this board.

disagree with the last part. whenever this has popped up, there have been people speaking out against the use of the nazi-label.

mocolostrocolos · May 21, 2018

negative-space said:
This. I guess it's OK for someone you dislike to be harassed though. That doesn't count, right?

So far, It seems to be okay.

Not surprised, though.

Elfotografoalocado · May 21, 2018

KoolAid said:
You're implying that's the only tweet that made him not want to go

If I see that tweet quoted as an example of harassment, I'm going to assume it's representative of what Vávra or the other poster thinks harassment is. I haven't seen the tweets, I don't care, I'm not invited to Gamelab and it's more than 600Km away from where I live. If people want to make a case that he's been harassed, then they have to bring proof. In the meantime, the only one here who's harassed others is him. And I have no problem separating artists and art, but one thing is buying and playing his game and another one is inviting a Gamergator so that other people are exposed to him, without him ever having apologized for his past and present behaviour.

Yukinari · May 21, 2018

Tarot Deck said:
Calling someone a Nazi is heavy stuff, but it was normalized recently, especially in this board.

Welcome to every Hat in Time and Kingdom Come thread.

Im glad nobody has gotten a warning or ban in this thread yet at least. Im always afraid to post regarding this man or his game.

KoolAid · May 21, 2018

Alice_from_wonderland said:
Would you like to be called racist when you are not one? Would you like to be called nazi when you are not one and have personal history with that level of oppression?

...he is a racist though

His Majesty · May 21, 2018

Relaxed Muscle said:
He's a racist and a xenophobe nationalist which game tries to paint any non-czech character as villains or beasts.

I think Nazi/Fascist is a good description of him.

Did you play the game? Already in the intro you get scolded by your father for attacking a non-Czech minority.

LewieP · May 21, 2018

Alice_from_wonderland said:
Would you like to be called racist when you are not one? Would you like to be called nazi when you are not one and have personal history with that level of oppression?

No but I don't think any of these points are relevant to Vavra.

TinfoilHatsROn · May 21, 2018

GHG said:
There is so much irony that you are saying this considering your posts in this thread.

Not really. But hey be delusional as you want buddy. Part of the "Both Sides" new ERA way.

Niceguydan8 · May 21, 2018

Relaxed Muscle said:
People showing it's discomfort that a suposed more diverse "gamelab" edition, brought a racist, mysoginist to talk about his racist, mysoginist game, is not harassment.

Where are the people saying that? I have not seen anything to suggest that's it's people voicing their concerns in a non threatening way unless we just assume the guy is lying for whatever reason.

It's also probably time to put a stop to including most people in the same group of people that are most commonly known for causing the Holocaust. That's not cool, regardless of his views .

Zacmortar · May 21, 2018

Starlatine said:
we'll have to agree to disagree on this "bad people deserves a taste of their own bad actions" then. this kind of justice with your own hands is not something i condone or find right

i'm talking about people in this thread, not the people tweeting back at vavra or the supposed insult that made him give up on gamelab. i have better things to do than follow his tweets. i never mentioned death threats at all, are you quoting the right person?

"Justice with your own hands" gamergators dont get justice, theres no penalty to literally ruining peoples lives and continuing to do so to this day and the women hurt by that are just supposed to take it? Zoe Quinn is still harassed. Anita is still harassed. actually harassed. There's no justice in standing on your moral high horse telling victims to not do anything back while they're continuously harassed. There's no both sides here, and taking a hyper-law-abiding "Nobody should ever be mean" stance isn't helping any situation because you're both not actually doing anything to the GGers whilst also condemning the victims.

If you apologize for and associate with a hate movement, you deserve to be shunned.

saenima · May 21, 2018

His Majesty said:
Guy has received death threats in the past, really funny huh? People cheering for harassment here, shades of NeoGAF.

Onebadlion said:
Harassment if he'd been popular around here, but because he's a controversial figure, he's a snowflake who needs to man up?

digitalrelic said:
It's a ridiculous double standard for users here to pick and choose when harassment is acceptable.

ParanoidRED said:
Better than be happy for online harassment no?

Niceguydan8 said:
So is harassment one of those things that's only acceptable when it applies to somebody you don't like/agree with?

Hate said:
You're just not supposed to condone harrassment at all.

negative-space said:
This. I guess it's OK for someone you dislike to be harassed though. That doesn't count, right?

So do any of you has any links to this harassment you're talking about?

rras1994 · May 21, 2018

Do I think harassment is okay? No, not at all. Am I going to waste my time defending Vavra from harassment when he wouldn't do a thing if the shoe was on the other foot? No. Why should I?

Terra Firma · May 21, 2018

Some people in this thread are being deliberately obtuse or are entirely clueless or merely sympathizers trying to say "lol regressive leftist libtards" but not as bluntly.

This guy and his kind are okay with harassing others and then calling people "snowflakes" when they get rightly offended. But when he gets offended, he acts like a top tier snowflake. That's hypocrisy and a clear example of white fragility - he's backing out because he was called names (which can arguably be considered factual descriptions rather than insults).

People he calls "snowflake" are targeted for something they cannot change, like their race or gender. He's being insulted for something he most definitely can change, which is to stop being a racist douchebag.

Zacmortar · May 21, 2018

negative-space said:
This. I guess it's OK for someone you dislike to be harassed though. That doesn't count, right?

Literally a gamergator, a movement that has and continues to ruin lives. Theres no innocent difference of opinion here.

Kaim Argonar · May 21, 2018

I would have cancelled too if I had people calling me a Nazi. And those people would probably have legal trouble with me.

Code Artisan · May 21, 2018

Relaxed Muscle said:
He's a racist and a xenophobe nationalist which game tries to paint any non-czech character as villains or beasts.

I think Nazi/Fascist is a good description of him.

Nazi and Fascist are two different things. To be a nazi, you have to be a member of the nazi parti which is no more possible since Hitler took the party back in the grave with him 73 years ago. At most you could be a neo-nazi but you would have to be a militant for what was the nazi program which, as far as i know, Vrava has never been. Calling someone a nazi just because he's a racist or a xenophobe or an antisemite is wrong.

Platy · May 21, 2018

Starlatine said:
i'm talking about people in this thread, not the people tweeting back at vavra or the supposed insult that made him give up on gamelab. i have better things to do than follow his tweets. i never mentioned death threats at all, are you quoting the right person?

Yes, "enabling harassment is not the right way to act. " makes no sense if he was just rightfully called a racist and sexist

He was INSULTED, not HARASSED

negative-space · May 21, 2018

Zacmortar said:
Literally a gamergator, a movement that has and continues to ruin lives. Theres no innocent difference of opinion here.

So he deserves death threats then. Gotcha.

Alice_from_wonderland · May 21, 2018

KoolAid said:
...he is a racist though

...he isn't though

LewieP said:
No but I don't think any of these points are relevant to Vavra.

You are wrong because they are. He can be an asshole, he is not racist nor nazi though.

Iva Demilcol · May 21, 2018

I don't follow that person on Twitter but I'd like to see proof of that harassment because the tweets shared (that I'm sure many people here can read) tell a different story: one person is literally complaining to Gamelab that Vavra was invited because he's racist. It's a legit complaint if you ask me when Gamelab was supposed to be diverse.

Deleted member 32018 · May 21, 2018

Zacmortar said:
Literally a gamergator, a movement that has and continues to ruin lives. Theres no innocent difference of opinion here.

So instead of being the bigger, better person, you want to lower yourself to them? That makes sense. Sure, make sure that they know that you don't agree with their views, and educate them on why they are wrong. Harassment/name calling etc is not the right way to do such things though.

Starlatine · May 21, 2018

Zacmortar said:
"Justice with your own hands" gamergators dont get justice, theres no penalty to literally ruining peoples lives and continuing to do so to this day and the women hurt by that are just supposed to take it? Zoe Quinn is still harassed. Anita is still harassed. actually harassed. There's no justice in standing on your moral high horse telling victims to not do anything back while they're continuously harassed. There's no both sides here, and taking a hyper-law-abiding "Nobody should ever be mean" stance isn't helping any situation because you're both not actually doing anything to the GGers whilst also condemning the victims.

If you're going to put words on my mouth, be more tasteful with it. I'm not saying anything about victims to do nothing or condemning them and its quite offensive that you insinuated so. I'm talking about driveby posts on era using words that were used in pretty depreciating manners before (like "snowflakes" and "man up") and how the person on the other end being a jerk or "deserving" doesnt justify perpetuating this kind of behaviour. But since you want to shift this to me defending Vavra (which i never even cared about in this discussion) then lets just finish it right here because i sure don't want to defend him.

Legacy · May 21, 2018

I don't agree with the harassment stuff but then this is the internet. The dude comes across like a douche but there are proper ways to do things, and harassment is not one them

Zacmortar · May 21, 2018

Code Artisan said:
Nazi and Fascist are two different things. To be a nazi, you have to be a member of the nazi parti which is no more possible since Hitler took the party back in the grave with him 73 years ago. At most you could be a neo-nazi but you would have to be a militant for what was the nazi program which, as far as i know, Vrava has never been. Calling someone a nazi just because he's a racist or a xenophobe or an antisemite is wrong.

Neo Nazis(most oftenly referred to as just Nazis) Have existed for half a century. Believing in the same ideals and white supremacy makes you a nazi, yes.

saenima · May 21, 2018

negative-space said:
So he deserves death threats then. Gotcha.

Where are the death threats?

GeoGonzo · May 21, 2018

Tarot Deck said:
Calling someone a Nazi is heavy stuff, but it was normalized recently, especially in this board.

While it is true that nazi is often used as a shorthand for white supremacist and a few other things, and while using it is indeed not perfect since it (in part) normalizes the horrors commited by actual nazis... let us not exaggerate, please. Nobody is being called a nazi for behaviour unrelated to nazism (like not liking Bloodborne) yet. People are being called a nazi for being a garbage human being with no empathy and/or outright hate towards certain groups of people. While the tag "nazi" isn't always a perfect fit it is actually super easy to never be called a nazi... just don't behave like one, ever.

Zacmortar · May 21, 2018

steviejd1 said:
So instead of being the bigger, better person, you want to lower yourself to them? That makes sense. Sure, make sure that they know that you don't agree with their views, and educate them on why they are wrong. Harassment/name calling etc is not the right way to do such things though.

This is not how this works and is an actively harmful platitude that is preached by people who aren't harmed by the thing thats hurting the people they're preaching to

People that have ruined lives don't deserve sympathy like that because they literally can't take that back.

LewieP · May 21, 2018

Alice_from_wonderland said:
...he isn't though

You are wrong because they do. He can be an asshole, he is not racist nor nazi though.

Please stop making your text illegible.

He is a racist and I have no qualms about stating such.

Deleted member 39587 · May 21, 2018

Code Artisan said:
To be a nazi, you have to be a member of the nazi parti

disagree - I think it is absolutely valid to see the so-called "National Socialism" as an ideology detached from the time frame of the so-called 3rd Reich. we do the same with fascism.

Terra Firma · May 21, 2018

Code Artisan said:
Nazi and Fascist are two different things. To be a nazi, you have to be a member of the nazi parti which is no more possible since Hitler took the party back in the grave with him 73 years ago. At most you could be a neo-nazi but you would have to be a militant for what was the nazi program which, as far as i know, Vrava has never been. Calling someone a nazi just because he's a racist or a xenophobe or an antisemite is wrong.

Semantics.

And no, Nazis are a type of fascists so not "two different things".

BootStompFloppy · May 21, 2018

Seeing alot of hypocrisy here, it's OK when people you don't like get abuse.

Not that it surprises me from this site.

His Majesty · May 21, 2018

Iva Demilcol said:
It's a legit complaint if you ask me when Gamelab was supposed to be diverse.

In order to be more diverse Gamelab should not have invited a Czech studio that made a game about Bohemian culture and history? what

Deleted member 5596 · May 21, 2018

His Majesty said:
Did you play the game? Already in the intro you get scolded by your father for attacking a non-Czech minority.

Alice_from_wonderland said:
Wrong on every count. I am not surprised he is fed up with being painted as nazi when is "crime" is at worst, disagreeing with Anita Sarkeesian and being rude on twitter and liking/retweeting some tweets from "wrong" people.

Would you like to be called racist when you are not one? Would you like to be called nazi when you are not one and have personal history with that level of oppression?

https://unwinnable.com/2018/03/02/deliverance-myth-making-and-historical-accuracy/

Deliverance's Bohemia is in turmoil because of the "foreign" Sigismund, who leaves his seat in Hungary to pillage the land with a force of even more exotic, Turkic barbarians as his cavalry. Our first glimpse of the latter sees them attempting to rape a local woman, their speech incomprehensible because it lacks the same English subtitles given to nearly every other character. The Cumans are a constant source of fear in the game.

Henry refers to them in an early conversation as "diabolical barbarians from the East with no regard for the rules of warfare." Others call them "heathen dogs" or "savages." The player is assured, by one character, that, even though "all armies" will "pillage, rape and slaughter," it's the Cumans who "take pleasure in it."

Striking, too, is that the only gay characters are two of the game's villains, a deceitful mercenary and his nefarious Hungarian lover. In the case of the game's women, their disposability is either ignored (as with his dead mom) or played for laughs. Stat-boosting perks provided for just having slept with a woman (displayed through an icon of a lion and the title "Alpha Male") and goofy montages of Henry and a priest having sex with two village girls are shown not as indications of a restrictive, misogynist society, but as good-natured jokes – the lads out on the town. The gay characters – one appearing primarily in dimly lit nighttime scenes where he tortures Henry or sneaks his way into a castle to hold a defenseless Lady hostage, the other blackmailed by sniggering lords when they find out his sexuality – are presented with what reads as outright malice.

Painting Sigismund, within the game's events, as representative of an evil, discord-sowing foreign influence and opposing him with Henry, a good-hearted Czech Bohemian, suggests that the spirit of the times was one of struggle between the heart of the "real nation" and foreign powers trying to erode its vitality.

Zacmortar · May 21, 2018

BootStompFloppy said:
Seeing alot of hypocrisy here, it's OK when people you don't like get abuse.

Not that it surprises me from this site.

"people you dont like" said by at least 5 different posters so far, all conveniently leaving out the gamergate apologizing and xenophobia.

Deleted member 39587 · May 21, 2018

His Majesty said:
In order to be more diverse Gamelab should not have invited a Czech studio that made a game about Bohemian culture and history? what

They did not invite the studio, they invited Vavra. A racist.

Famassu · May 21, 2018

His Majesty said:
Guy has received death threats in the past, really funny huh? People cheering for harassment here, shades of NeoGAF.

Calling people out on shitty behaviour isn't harassment. This guy openly supports a white supremacist group, so calling him a nazi isn't all that far from the truth. Him bringing up how his grandparents were Jews means absolutely nothing. Jews weren't the only victims/targets of nazism. (Descendants of) Jews can be anti-semitic/support anti-semitic groups just like women can be misogynistic/support groups harmful towards women and immigrants can be anti-immigration. People are dumb and can be (willfully) ignorant on how their supported causes/groups go against everything they are/their roots.

Iva Demilcol · May 21, 2018

His Majesty said:
In order to be more diverse Gamelab should not have invited a Czech studio that made a game about Bohemian culture and history? what

Would you invite people like Milo to an event to celebrate diversity?

That's your answer.

Zacmortar · May 21, 2018

Relaxed Muscle said:
https://unwinnable.com/2018/03/02/deliverance-myth-making-and-historical-accuracy/

I refuse to play the game so haven't commented on it, but everything written there is disgusting and exactly about as I expected

Deleted member 1594 · May 21, 2018

negative-space said:
So he deserves death threats then. Gotcha.

Lol. Love how high and mighty some people on this board seem to be... and then they condone death threads.

What ever happened to taking the high road? Being the better person? Not "stooping to their level?"

There are some sick posts in here. You are no better than this guy if you think he should be receiving death threats.

CannonFodder52 · May 21, 2018

MazeHaze said:
I just find it ironic that he supported gamergate, a campaign centered around harassing women, and now he's saying harassment is bad.

pretty much

saenima · May 21, 2018

I see someone opened the Alt Account cage just in time for this thread.

Alice_from_wonderland · May 21, 2018

LewieP said:
Please stop making your text illegible.

He is a racist and I have no qualms about stating such.

What do you mean?

And you are still wrong. Lie repeated thousand times does not become truth.

Deleted member 32018 · May 21, 2018

Zacmortar said:
This is not how this works and is an actively harmful platitude that is preached by people who aren't harmed by the thing thats hurting the people they're preaching to

People that have ruined lives don't deserve sympathy like that because they literally can't take that back.

I never said give the guy sympathy... There are better ways to go about this rather than stooping to the same level. Wouldn't trying to educate the guy be far more productive than being childish and calling him names and spreading hate?

BootStompFloppy · May 21, 2018

Zacmortar said:
"people you dont like" said by at least 5 different posters so far, all conveniently leaving out the gamergate apologizing and xenophobia.

Just the same old accusations I only see being banded about here.

sredgrin · May 21, 2018

His Majesty said:
Did you play the game? Already in the intro you get scolded by your father for attacking a non-Czech minority.

Oh, ok. I guess all the LOL 'religion of peace' comments he makes about Muslims are offset now?

Daniel Vavra (Kingdom Come Deliverance) cancels his visit to Gamelab; Spanish development conference

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