Kotaku: Hacker Is Trying To Make A Virtual Console For His Switch

martinstraka8282 · May 16, 2018

Amazing with all the greed and corruption in the corporate/political world, that we're still somehow here yelling at eachother about playing something possibly pirated that isnt even available for purchase and had to be creatively integrated. Middle class hangin on to those morals hard.

samthebreadman · May 16, 2018

c0de said:
Yes, please. And can we start talking about how you actually did that? What did you have to do to get this running on the Switch?

I wrote the program in lua and was able to run it on my Nintendo Switch using a piece of homebrew software called lovepotion.

I am now in the midst of rewriting it in the more efficent language of C, but I have underestimated how tedious C code can be to write with. Oh well.

Deleted member 20297 · May 16, 2018

samthebreadman said:
I wrote the program in lua and was able to run it on my Nintendo Switch using a piece of homebrew software called lovepotion.

I am now in the midst of rewriting it in the more efficent language of C, but I have underestimated how tedious C code can be to write with. Oh well.

Oh yes, C can be a PITA. But essentially you are running the same ARM binary from the NES classic?

BaconHat · May 16, 2018

c0de said:
Oh yes, C can be a PITA. But essentially you are running the same ARM binary from the NES classic?

Wait, so this is essentially running the original NES classic code wrapped?
So the method is similar to how some emulators uses the user ripped console bios instead of having rewritten everything from scratch?

bye · May 16, 2018

Metal Slugger said:
"I don't get why they won't stop making $60-80 devices that constantly sell out for years on end to provide a worse, cheaper version that I can play with a Joy Con. BAD BUSINESS DECISION NINTENDO, TIME FOR PIRACY"

It's really disgusting how people bend over backwards just to defend corporate greed like this

Prattle · May 16, 2018

delete12345 said:
Instead of selling, why not free via a yearly subscription?

They don't have enough games of their own.

N00MKRAD · May 16, 2018

"Hacker"...

Kotaku cringe is real.

N00MKRAD · May 16, 2018

Menx64 said:
I hope he has copies of all the games he is going to use...

Of course! Don't you know that everyone who emulates only owns legal copies of their games?

Kintaro · May 16, 2018

I feel that Nintendo didn't like having essentially 3 separate Virtual Consoles so their way of fixing this will be the subscription model. I don't think the Minis have much to do with them abandoning the VC in it's former iteration. They will go all in, hopefully, into the subscription model. So far it's not very impressive, it will be interesting to see how they handle the catalog. Will they rotate titles or just keep adding more?

Falchion · May 16, 2018

I'll take one of his Switches please.

RockmanBN · May 16, 2018

N00MKRAD said:
Of course! Don't you know that everyone who emulates only owns legal copies of their games?

There should be a mod statement on any homebrew/emulation thread to avoid the tired piracy accusations unless the thread's focus is about piracy.

Stormed · May 16, 2018

Mesoian said:
I mean this is neat, but for really realz.

Nintendo won't make virtual console because they want you to buy this.

and this

Full stop.

They'd much rather you pay 80 dollars for this than whatever software solution they'd do, and on top of that, they want to use whatever switch based emulation solution they have to rope you into paying for their online service.

It's not that hard to figure out.

not much of a good business move when they've only manufactured like 20 consoles lol.

ozz ex machina · May 16, 2018

Kintaro said:
I feel that Nintendo didn't like having essentially 3 separate Virtual Consoles so their way of fixing this will be the subscription model. I don't think the Minis have much to do with them abandoning the VC in it's former iteration. They will go all in, hopefully, into the subscription model. So far it's not very impressive, it will be interesting to see how they handle the catalog. Will they rotate titles or just keep adding more?

I don't think they should ever rotate titles unless they are available for digital purchase elsewhere.

Bjones · May 16, 2018

martinstraka8282 said:
Amazing with all the greed and corruption in the corporate/political world, that we're still somehow here yelling at eachother about playing something possibly pirated that isnt even available for purchase and had to be creatively integrated. Middle class hangin on to those morals hard.

Nothing you said makes pirating games " okay ".

oni-link · May 16, 2018

I want to preface this with saying I do not condone piracy at all, but I still find the rules around it really bizarre

Like, a few years ago I would need to have spent £100 plus on Earthbound, paying some random guy on the internet and not Nintendo, to get the game, so I can flash the ROM and play the game

Now technically that's legal, yet some random seller makes money, and not Nintendo. Someone else just downloading the ROM would see Nintendo make the same amount of money

Then Nintendo released Earthbound, so say now I sell my cart (at a loss to me now, as the cart prices drop because Nintendo released the game) and buy the game on Wii U, so now am I legally obligated to also delete my ROM from the cart I have now sold, and rip my Wii U rom (the exact same file) to be all good and legal?

Then some people say it's fine to pirate games that are impossible to obtain legally, so like Mother 3 with the fan patch. If Nintendo then release Mother 3 are you then legally compelled to buy this as you have already played the game and now it is available, or are you legally compelled to delete your fan translated ROM?

I just find it odd how so many people get mad about the idea people might get a ROM for a game they didn't pay for when they'd be 100% happy if that same person paid some random guy to get the cart before ripping the game. If the main issue people have with piracy is the publisher/dev miss out, then that still happens with the legal way of emulating games

The ideal solution would be for Nintendo to implement a solution that makes piracy a non issue, but we have had a decade now where they haven't been bothered. God knows how much money they have missed out on because people just said fuck it and decided to pirate their classic games

I don't think people should pirate games at all, but when people do go down that route it's almost certainly more likely to be from frustration at not being offered the chance to pay for something than because they want to steal games from Nintendo

AM_LIGHT · May 16, 2018

Mesoian said:
I mean this is neat, but for really realz.

Nintendo won't make virtual console because they want you to buy this.

and this

Full stop.

They'd much rather you pay 80 dollars for this than whatever software solution they'd do, and on top of that, they want to use whatever switch based emulation solution they have to rope you into paying for their online service.

It's not that hard to figure out.

I never understood this , a virtual console with 8$ per game would make them more money over the long term than these limited supply micro consoles.

Yoshi · May 16, 2018

butman said:
And that is news? The next one will be the fastest one too and so with the next. The more years go by, the gamer community grows.
The number of people who play today is much higher than when the Wii or SNES was launched. Fathers back in the day didn't play games. Today they do.

This does not necessarily translate to the audience for Nintendo though. Wii U sold slower than Wii, and not insignificantly so.

delete12345 · May 16, 2018

AM_LIGHT said:
I never understood this , a virtual console with 8$ per game would make them more money over the long term than these limited supply micro consoles.

Perceived value wouldn't help make Switch Online be quickly adopted.

The whole point was to incentivize adoption towards Switch Online, so they dropped VC. This delivery system meant, GaaS is what Nintendo is aiming for.

jts · May 16, 2018

wow someone with a hacked console is trying to run emulators there

stop the fucking presses

Dust · May 16, 2018

Is that the famous hacker known as 4chan?

D.Lo · May 16, 2018

AM_LIGHT said:
I never understood this , a virtual console with 8$ per game would make them more money over the long term than these limited supply micro consoles.

And you have the hard insider data to prove this I assume?

AM_LIGHT · May 16, 2018

D.Lo said:
And you have the hard insider data to prove this I assume?

Just common sense , a limited supply of micro consoles at 80$ a piece vs VC platform selling to the tens of millions of switch owners that will keep selling through out the switch life.

D.Lo · May 16, 2018

AM_LIGHT said:
Just common sense , a limited supply of micro consoles at 80$ a piece vs VC platform selling to the tens of millions of switch owners that will keep selling through out the switch life.

So the answer is 'no'.

BernardoOne said:
I can guarantee you a properly supported VC would make them more money, not less.

And how exactly can you 'guarantee' this?

AndrewDean84 · May 16, 2018

Amaterasu said:
Yeah, tell the company busy making money at a stellar rate how to run a business, random internet person!

Always blows my mind.

Hieroph · May 16, 2018

delete12345 said:
Perceived value wouldn't help make Switch Online be quickly adopted.

The whole point was to incentivize adoption towards Switch Online, so they dropped VC. This delivery system meant, GaaS is what Nintendo is aiming for.

Yeah. Virtual Console was sacrificed for the online scheme and its laughable game selection, and I for one hate what they're doing. This year just keeps getting worse and worse for Switch.

martinstraka8282 · May 16, 2018

Bjones said:
Nothing you said makes pirating games " okay ".

It's just funny to think of how the middle/lower class is being raked over the coals and yet we still stand by our morals to the bitter end. The fact that I can't buy it anywhere legitimately does make it okay imo, but you're very much entitled to your opinion.

oni-link · May 16, 2018

D.Lo said:
And how exactly can you 'guarantee' this?

I think BernardoOne is right

I read a report on vinyl sales and how "superfans" are pretty much the only ones buying it, yet that alone is enough to keep sales numbers going up

If there was a hypothetical virtual console on Switch that sold every NES, SNES, N64, GBA, GCN game etc, for a fixed price, and tied these to a Nintendo account that could be carried forward, then you would have people buying their dream curated Nintendo collection and they'd spend hundreds on it

Then you'd also get the kind of people who just want Mario and Zelda, and Nintendo wouldn't have to pay distribution/manufacturing costs like they do with the mini systems

I don't see why they can't do both really

Either way it's hard to argue that Nintendo aren't leaving money on the table by half arsing or fucking up the VC

Popetita · May 16, 2018

I bet my left ball( not seriously) that after some other plan they have or after some time Nintendo will announce the VC and/or some other plan with their online.

People jumped at this as if they said"No forever" when they said" No plans at this time"

I am 1000% sure when this happens all people will post about how they finally changed their tune and that they put pressure on them blah blah blah.

It's is coming bet on it, just not now

AM_LIGHT · May 16, 2018

D.Lo said:
So the answer is 'no'.

Where in my original post did I say or even indicated I have insider information, we are all just offering our opinions, you can share yours if you have one on the subject .

DarthWalden · May 16, 2018

So if I own a switch and a snes classic does that somehow make it justifiable to mod my switch to play those games on the go?

Asking for a Freind.

Daysean · May 16, 2018

DarthWalden said:
So if I own a switch and a snes classic does that somehow make it justifiable to mod my switch to play those games on the go?

Asking for a Freind.

Just bee urself

martinstraka8282 · May 16, 2018

DarthWalden said:
So if I own a switch and a snes classic does that somehow make it justifiable to mod my switch to play those games on the go?

Asking for a Freind.

Ethically? Without a doubt

Legally? Probably not, but it would never be enforced obviously

Thatguy · May 16, 2018

oni-link said:
I think BernardoOne is right

I read a report on vinyl sales and how "superfans" are pretty much the only ones buying it, yet that alone is enough to keep sales numbers going up

If there was a hypothetical virtual console on Switch that sold every NES, SNES, N64, GBA, GCN game etc, for a fixed price, and tied these to a Nintendo account that could be carried forward, then you would have people buying their dream curated Nintendo collection and they'd spend hundreds on it

Then you'd also get the kind of people who just want Mario and Zelda, and Nintendo wouldn't have to pay distribution/manufacturing costs like they do with the mini systems

I don't see why they can't do both really

Either way it's hard to argue that Nintendo aren't leaving money on the table by half arsing or fucking up the VC

They definitely are. I argued on another thread that classic games will be the killer app for hacking your system too, and some will fall into using CFW and illegal dumps of current games, not to mention online cheats. There are big reasons for Nintendo to pay more attention to their classic library on Switch.

Niosai · May 16, 2018

Metal Slugger said:
"I don't get why they won't stop making $60-80 devices that constantly sell out for years on end to provide a worse, cheaper version that I can play with a Joy Con. BAD BUSINESS DECISION NINTENDO, TIME FOR PIRACY"

Emulation =/= piracy. How is this so hard to understand?

Mass Effect · May 16, 2018

Niosai said:
Emulation =/= piracy. How is this so hard to understand?

Probably better just to report piracy accusation posts and move on, otherwise we let them derail the thread.

Ororo · May 16, 2018

I wouldn't hack my Switch if they'd had VC, but now that I can't transfer my library I will make the VC happen one way or another. I'm willing to risk having my console banned.

Animal Liberation Ⓥ · May 16, 2018

N00MKRAD said:
"Hacker"...

Kotaku cringe is real.

Seriously! Glad someone said it. How about coder/engineer? Reengineering?

Nah, hacker!!!

Merv · May 16, 2018

D.Lo said:
So the answer is 'no'.

And how exactly can you 'guarantee' this?

Do you really think VC titles will generate less money some how? Even if the mini consoles made more profit, how is selling VC titles that cost basically nothing to generate a bad idea? Or maybe you're just argueing semantics for some stupid reason?

Cess007 · May 16, 2018

RockmanBN said:
There should be a mod statement on any homebrew/emulation thread to avoid the tired piracy accusations unless the thread's focus is about piracy.

I thought there was one with the bug Switch hack thread. It seems that some people can still enter any homebrew/emulation thread and scream piracy

Vagabond · May 16, 2018

Lots of (IMO) anti-consumer defense and praise here. This homebrew hobbyist is putting in hard work on something he and his group of friends can enjoy, and sharing it so that others can enjoy too. That's commendable.

Deleted member 15538 · May 16, 2018

CFW can't come soon enough, our second switch will be a dedicated portable emulation/homebrew beast.

Vincent Alexander · May 16, 2018

RockmanBN said:
There should be a mod statement on any homebrew/emulation thread to avoid the tired piracy accusations unless the thread's focus is about piracy.

Or if we could get a Top 10 Smartass Piracy Comments list to copy and paste at end of every OP, because they never say anything new.

Niosai · May 16, 2018

Vincent Alexander said:
Or if we could get a Top 10 Smartass Piracy Comments list to copy and paste at end of every OP, because they never say anything new.

That would be wonderful.

Anyways, what's to stop Nintendo from just releasing a "Nintendo Classics!" machine that replaces virtual console? Bundle it with some staple titles and give it it's own dedicated online store. That way they can just pursue the strategy that they seem vested in currently without having to manufacture (as a guess) up to 5 different emulation boxes. I'd buy one.

D.Lo · May 16, 2018

AM_LIGHT said:
Where in my original post did I say or even indicated I have insider information, we are all just offering our opinions, you can share yours if you have one on the subject .

The mini consoles have so far generated half a billion dollars of revenue for Nintendo, in a little over a year, and are still selling like hotcakes and the NES/Fami is coming back into production, a new Fami model in Japan, and SNES continues. Mini consoles are still selling and still selling out.

That would mean 100 million Virtual Console NES game sales in the same timeframe for the same income, six sold per Switch right now (and would have to keep selling at such a rate to keep up with future mini consoles), with far less exposure and hype.

Merv said:
Do you really think VC titles will generate less money some how? Even if the mini consoles made more profit, how is selling VC titles that cost basically nothing to generate a bad idea? Or maybe you're just argueing semantics for some stupid reason?

The person said VC would make more money and has no way to prove this, and current evidence points to it being unlikely.

All this back seat 'if I ran Nintendo/Sony it would all be better' nonsense doesn't make sense without having the actual VC sales data, which nobody does.

cardboardboxer · May 16, 2018

oni-link said:
If there was a hypothetical virtual console on Switch that sold every NES, SNES, N64, GBA, GCN game etc, for a fixed price, and tied these to a Nintendo account that could be carried forward, then you would have people buying their dream curated Nintendo collection and they'd spend hundreds on it

But that isn't what Virtual Console is, or what they wanted it to be. And frankly even if Nintendo rolled out something like that most people here would be suspicious actually how forward compatible such a library would be given their history.

I think the big problem with Virtual Console is people want the games available to buy, but they don't want to actually buy them.

Like it makes us feel good to know we can go and buy our favorite classic games one day if that inspiration ever strikes us, but (most of us) aren't buying every game we might ever want the second they are available to enable us on that day, instead we wait for the day when we are inspired to play that game to buy it. The end result might be we never get inspired to play that game, which means it was a net negative for Nintendo to offer it for sale.

With a subscription model we are paying up front for the potential to get access to the titles when the mood strikes us to play them, so if that day never comes Nintendo still gets paid. In fact unlike VC the subscription model might inspire us to play more of these old games than we otherwise might ("to get our money's worth"), which might entice us to actually buy the game next time it pops up in a compilation or on the eShop down the road.

The intense scarcity of the NES Classic was part of the success, I know many people who bought one because they could (ie it was in a store when they went) who might have never owned it if it was piled up in every store and they could just go get one whenever the mood strikes. Until the closed the Wii shop VC never had any feeling that it was temporary (even if it was), which means people weren't pushed to actually spend money.

oni-link · May 16, 2018

cardboardboxer said:
But that isn't what Virtual Console is, or what they wanted it to be. And frankly even if Nintendo rolled out something like that most people here would be suspicious actually how forward compatible such a library would be given their history.

I think the big problem with Virtual Console is people want the games available to buy, but they don't want to actually buy them.

Like it makes us feel good to know we can go and buy our favorite classic games one day if that inspiration ever strikes us, but (most of us) aren't buying every game we might ever want the second they are available to enable us on that day, instead we wait for the day when we are inspired to play that game to buy it. The end result might be we never get inspired to play that game, which means it was a net negative for Nintendo to offer it for sale.

With a subscription model we are paying up front for the potential to get access to the titles when the mood strikes us to play them, so if that day never comes Nintendo still gets paid. In fact unlike VC the subscription model might inspire us to play more of these old games than we otherwise might ("to get our money's worth"), which might entice us to actually buy the game next time it pops up in a compilation or on the eShop down the road.

The intense scarcity of the NES Classic was part of the success, I know many people who bought one because they could (ie it was in a store when they went) who might have never owned it if it was piled up in every store and they could just go get one whenever the mood strikes. Until the closed the Wii shop VC never had any feeling that it was temporary (even if it was), which means people weren't pushed to actually spend money.

I don't really agree, and I think the fact we have vinyl collectors, even CD collectors, despite music streaming being a thing, and we have people who buy and collect blu rays despite Netflix being a thing, and even (believe it or not) game collectors, show that not everyone wants to consume media via streaming or subscription models

Do you think Steam users would rather pay a monthly fee and have acsess to all Steam games? I'm guessing most wouldn't

Personally I buy games I want to play, and if there was a perfect VC I would do just that

The real issue is why can't they do both? PS Plus games are also there if you want to buy them outright

I don't see why Nintendo can't do micro consoles, a robust VC and the 'free games' if you pay for the sub

The main issue I have with streaming is no service has everything I want

I have Netflix and Now TV and even then there are shows I can't access, and as a consumer I would rather pay for what I want and have it, than pay a load of subs for incomplete services

I can guarentee a pirate with 30 quid for a USB controller and a PC will have a better VC with a better line up of games than what Nintendo will offer with it's sub, even 2 years from now when they add other games

That shouldn't be the case, a pirate shouldn't be able to do a better job than Nintendo

cardboardboxer · May 16, 2018

oni-link said:
I don't really agree, and I think the fact we have vinyl collectors, even CD collectors, despite music streaming being a thing, and we have people who buy and collect blu rays despite Netflix being a thing, and even (believe it or not) game collectors, show that not everyone wants to consume media via streaming or subscription models

But that is something different- a CD or record is something tangible. A digital Virtual Console game isn't, and has no collector's value.

That is part of what makes the NES Classic so much more popular than Virtual Console ever was, it is a tangible item with collector's value. That is why I suspect we will get physical compilations of classic games on the Switch (like a first party version of the Mega Man collection) instead of individual digital purchases as well.

Do you think Steam users would rather pay a monthly fee and have acsess to all Steam games? I'm guessing most wouldn't

Steam users have a completely different sense of value that Nintendo would rather ignore than accommodate. Nintendo sees how platforms like Steam and iOS have reduced the value of games as direct threats to their business model, and they are doing everything they can to reject the "race to the bottom" price war for games that Valve started.

The real issue is why can't they do both? PS Plus games are also there if you want to buy them outright

Because there is a finite number of people willing to pay $5/$8/$10 a piece for rare Nintendo games, and many of those people probably already did big buys back in the Wii or Wii U era and so they want transfers (with minimal margins) instead of rebuys. By changing how Nintendo monetizes these games they can get money again from these people.

I can guarentee a pirate with 30 quid for a USB controller and a PC will have a better VC with a better line up of games than what Nintendo will offer with it's sub, even 2 years from now when they add other games

Well sure, free almost always beats paid.

Nintendo isn't interested in beating piracy out of the market with better value (aka the Valve philosophy that I was talking about earlier that they hate).

Instead their plan is to lock down the Switch and milk everyone who is willing to play by the rules.

oni-link · May 16, 2018

cardboardboxer said:
Nintendo isn't interested in beating piracy out of the market with better value (aka the Valve philosophy that I was talking about earlier that they hate).

Instead their plan is to lock down the Switch and milk everyone who is willing to play by the rules.

Maybe so, but for everyone out there who just wants to play all the great retro games they have 3 choices

1) Pay the sub and get a handful of the titles they want to play, along with a ton of games they don't, and hope Nintendo adds other games they want to play to the list, all while paying a lot over a long period of time
2) Buy the OG carts and discs and OG hardware at a huge expensive
3) Pirate the games and enjoy a perfect VC

Or of course, 4) which is to go without

I don't condone piracy at all, but a lot of people will go down that route because it's objectively the best and most convenient option out of the 3, even if all 3 of those options were legal and cost the same price, 3 gets you the best user experience

Nintendo have chosen not to cater for the kind of people who want to experience and play the best and most interesting retro games, and that is why people are frustrated

Merv · May 16, 2018

D.Lo said:
The mini consoles have so far generated half a billion dollars of revenue for Nintendo, in a little over a year, and are still selling like hotcakes and the NES/Fami is coming back into production, a new Fami model in Japan, and SNES continues. Mini consoles are still selling and still selling out.

That would mean 100 million Virtual Console NES game sales in the same timeframe for the same income, six sold per Switch right now (and would have to keep selling at such a rate to keep up with future mini consoles), with far less exposure and hype.

The person said VC would make more money and has no way to prove this, and current evidence points to it being unlikely.

All this back seat 'if I ran Nintendo/Sony it would all be better' nonsense doesn't make sense without having the actual VC sales data, which nobody does.

Free money is free money. Arguing over if it makes more or not is asinine.

D.Lo · May 16, 2018

Merv said:
Free money is free money. Arguing over if it makes more or not is asinine.

And now you're arguing over arguing over if it makes more or not. So I guess you're being twice as asinine according to your own rules.

Kotaku: Hacker Is Trying To Make A Virtual Console For His Switch

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