Seething hate for developers is something that the gaming community needs to work on

But can anyone hate anything as much as Luke's portrayal in The Last Jedi!?!?!?!?!?!?!
























You're right, toxicity is terrible

Its okay to hate a certain developer work but do not disrespect. I don't like Suda51, he's so weird and I hate his work (apart from Killer7)

Yep. Welcome to the Internet, sir. You can't really prevent that behaviour in this day and age of social networks. It even happen outside of the realm of gaming, soo..

The playstyle is completely different to other BGs, as there is less emphasis on actually killing enemy players (this allows them to respawn and then fly wherever they want) and more on slowing them down. The BG is RNG in that the nodes spawn randomly and you can sometimes have a bad streak of inconvenient spawns.

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you won't stop me from hating inafune now, lol

Kain-Nosgoth said:

you won't stop me from hating inafune now, lol

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This.

Honestly the hate is so extreme sometimes it's actually nauseating.

The most I feel towards a developer or publisher is disappointment because of wasted potential.

Life is too short to blow a gasket over these things constantly.

Kokonoe said:

This kind of attitude is how things never change.

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How exactly is your attitude going to change it?

You won't stop me from hating Ready at Dawn and their terrible marketing department or Sean Murray. Doesn't mean I support any kind of harassment directed at them.

Yeah, this needs to stop yesterday. Same goes for their horrendous treatment of ethnic minorities, women, and LGBT+ people.

Kokonoe said:

The OP is about the extent of how people express themselves.

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Fair enough then I fully agree with this point. It's toxic and has no place anywhere.

Kokonoe said:

It feels like sometimes people are so selfish that if a game developer isn't doing exactly what they want, they will hate them and wish them misfortune

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Kokonoe said:

This kind of attitude is how things never change.

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And exactly what are you doing to change it? You're acting pretty smug for someone who has zero ideas besides "just be nicer lol". You remind me of people who quote John Lenon songs on Facebook and act like they're helping someone.

.

The gaming community is one of the most immature around, I wouldn't hold your breath.

Ah, I see we're already at the "if you don't have a solution you can't complain" part of gamer apathy towards toxic behaviour.

It should be something that can change by people making the minimal effort to be nicer. If that's too difficult for people, maybe start warning/banning more people who relish in the misfortune and harassment of developers. There is a world of difference between critiquing someone's character and work and subjecting them to seething impotent hatred.

Hodgy said:

Id argue its rarely okay to hate a developer. Hate is a very strong emotion and to hate a developer unless they have done something personal to you seems like a ridiculous over reaction.

Its fine to dislike them or their work though. Hate is jsut waaay overblown.

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It's all well and good to have passion but I agree, some people need to take a step back and try and get some perspective.

I don't hate developers that make games I don't appreciate or turn franchises I used to appreciate into shit, I just don't appreciate their work and I'm not shy about saying "I wish <this developer I dislike> would stay away from <a new game from a franchise I like>".

Though I think that part of the "hate" people have against developers stems from the fact that publishers make them speak publicly and defend whatever controversial decisions they forced them to. EA has repeatedly sent its developers into the fray to defend their stupid decisions. For example... people got really upset when Maxis announced Sim City would require an online connection because of cloud computing and other hogwash instead of people turning against EA who were the ones who clearly motivated to do that, people went after Maxis who denied EA had pushed them in such direction.

I find it sad that a lot of vocal gamers are too naive to understand when something was clearly done for the publisher's interest to the detriment of a game that a dedicated team put blood sweat and tears into. Although the attitude those gamers show is misguided, harsh and should be altered, I think that people in general should be more vocal against publishers and try to point the blame in the proper direction because more often than not Publishers just stay quiet and don't even bother to respond unless the issue gets big enough to attract mainstream media, and they do that because it works.

i think it's normal to dislike people and their choices. i personally don't like cliffy b or phil spencer. but i'll never get the pure death threat level hate some people throw at them or anyone. the way i've seen people talk about david cage you'd think he killed their mothers. lol

Thank you for making a thread

Hodgy said:

Id argue its rarely okay to hate a developer. Hate is a very strong emotion and to hate a developer unless they have done something personal to you seems like a ridiculous over reaction.

Its fine to dislike them or their work though. Hate is jsut waaay overblown.

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True, it is a strong emotion.

Lackless said:

And exactly what are you doing to change it? You're acting pretty smug for someone who has zero ideas besides "just be nicer lol". You remind me of people who quote John Lenon songs on Facebook and act like they're helping someone.

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He's not smug at all. He's pointing at something that's actually a very big problem in the culture around this industry. People feel entitled, and when they don't get precisely the thing their selfish desires crave, they turn into assholes who will very easily say horrible things about people who are doing their best to create something worthwhile.

It's pathetic, and OP is helping by calling it out, and starting a conversation about it. People who already have come in here to say inane things like "you won't stop me hating" are just proving his point. You are just proving his point. what are you trying to achieve? Honestly? Belittling people who want to make a change is just enabling the status quo.

If you don't like a game, fine. Go play something else. If you are upset some developer didn't make what you wanted, or changed what you like. Tough. Get over it. If you have actual concerns, feel free to bring them up, but attacking the people who make things will not help.

Whoever harass another person for his work, is an assole, and stop ! It's not about gaming community, it's not about be a gamer, it's about having an education from parents.

Kokonoe said:

Either it be Miyamoto and certain things he's done such as Paper Mario and Star Fox, Sakurai's decisions with Smash, Yoshi-P with his mindset on how an MMORPG should work in modern times, and other prominent devs and lesser known ones it all comes to a similar point.

There are a lot of individuals who are not merely sharing distaste for these devs but absolute hatred, considering them idiots who should be fired or never work on a game again and it's something I've noticed throughout my time in gaming communities for the past decade or so and I fail to understand why. Like yes, people can be childish, but to this extent?

It feels like sometimes people are so selfish that if a game developer isn't doing exactly what they want, they will hate them and wish them misfortune. This kind of toxic behavior needs to be called out and improved upon and I feel it is quite an issue in all gaming communities at this point.

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I think this stems (at least in part) from the fact that most people don't realize what it means to actually work in this industry. It's the same thing with movies, comic books and any form of popular media really.

Apart from that, I have a hard time even understanding the concept of hate towards entertainment. I mean, it's okay to dislike something, but straight up hate it? And the people behind it as well? That's weird and hyperbolic as fuck.

gaming audiences' relationships with creators are far too often incredibly toxic and demanding. remember a while back on twitter, the issue with devs sharing behind the scenes development tricks and the revelation that they generally don't do so for all the flak they get. or the targeting of particular devs for nonsense whims or hate campaigns

talk all you want about 'diva devs' or whatever, but the amount of vitriol against phil fish just everywhere was sobering - to obviously say nothing of the likes of zoe quinn. the pity is in how widespread and engrained this culture of lashing out is

2112 said:

How exactly is your attitude going to change it?

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Culture shifts all the time. We can become different.

Hate for these things is idiotic, period. It also creates and perpetuates expectations (eg: no Paper Mario can ever be good ever again because of Miyamoto and Sticker Star. Too bad Sticker Star is a perfectly fine game, just not what people expected and think they wanted).

You can not like a developer for a certain piece of work, but if you keep using that to criticize (even pre-emptively) each of their subsequent works, you're not using your brain correctly. Being diffident is one thing. Hating, though? For a video game? Fuck off with that.

... The Tabata hate you see around these parts. Wew.

Can't think of any developers I actively ~hate~ but definitely a few that I avoid. Never really talk about them though.

Too bad the people who need this thread most are the type of people who will laugh it off.

What about Randy Pitchford? Is he still on the table?

Am I still allowed to... well, "seething hate" would be altogether overdoing it... am I still allowed to hold him in contempt and occasionally express the opinion that he is full of shit?

It annoys me when people say the developers are 'lazy' or 'don't care.'

Bungie is getting a lot of this hate at the moment, I feel sorry for them as no matter what they do people will moan.

You can hate and disrespect a developer if you want. Who honestly cares? This is an enthusiast board, it's not part of the industry. As long as it doesn't go as far as stalking or bigotry it's fine.

Zhukov said:

What about Randy Pitchford? Is he still on the table?

Am I still allowed to... well, "seething hate" would be altogether overdoing it... am I still allowed to hold him in contempt and occasionally express the opinion that he is full of shit?

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Some hatred and disdain is absolutely well earned imo Randy deserves no benefit of the doubt or respect of any sort. He's a snake oil salesman of the highest order

disliking a game or games from a certain developer is fine, but I don't understand having an actual hatred for a developer unless you got screwed over through kickstarter or something

Gamers are generally toxic man children with no grasp of reality. Same rule applies to Star Wars fans.

Kokonoe said:

This kind of attitude is how things never change.

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I don't want to hear this from someone who calls people that say things you don't like "idiots"

Kokonoe said:

"gen 1 pandering" is a term used by idiots.

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Your attitude is lousy too.

How do you expect people to take lessons from someone who can't even be civil to their fellow forum members??

Do we know if people who express themselves like that seriously hate things or if it's just normal to them to spout out horrible insults and what not due to the way the nature of internet interactions has shaped their understanding since a young age?

This happens everywhere and as far as I know has always happened. It just feels worse because now there are more voices to hear.

Back in the old days it used to be the tabloids writing negative stuff about celebs etc.

This will only become worse, or for as long as we don't educate or prepare children to navigate online spaces with empathy.

Mifec said:

You won't stop me from hating Ready at Dawn and their terrible marketing department

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Why?

Xita said:

How do you expect people to take lessons from someone who can't even be civil to their fellow forum members??

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Calling him out like you just did is kind of his whole point though. You just illustrated that we all need to work on ourselves as well. And, even though you might have lost respect for his words because of things he said, his desire to work together to stop the hate and toxicity is still a good thing. Heal don't hate.

Mifec said:

You won't stop me from hating Ready at Dawn and their terrible marketing department or Sean Murray. Doesn't mean I support any kind of harassment directed at them.

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This seems like a textbook example to be honest. Hating an amorphous blob that constitutes tons of people and hating a dude who's shut up and probably taken his lesson.

Sir Guts said:

Its okay to hate a certain developer work but do not disrespect. I don't like Suda51, he's so weird and I hate his work (apart from Killer7)

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But saying he's weird isn't disrespectful? I'm confused

saenima said:

Why?

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Perpetuating the damaging myth that 30fps is more cinematic and claiming they know better instead of just saying that's what the console allows.

Stopdoor said:

This seems like a textbook example to be honest. Hating an amorphous blob that constitutes tons of people and hating a dude who's shut up and probably taken his lesson.

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He already did the damage he intended to do and massively profited from it. He's an anti consumer scumbag and him shutting up and "learning" his lesson doesn't suddenly take away from what he did.

Kokonoe said:

Either it be Miyamoto and certain things he's done such as Paper Mario and Star Fox, Sakurai's decisions with Smash, Yoshi-P with his mindset on how an MMORPG should work in modern times, and other prominent devs and lesser known ones it all comes to a similar point.

There are a lot of individuals who are not merely sharing distaste for these devs but absolute hatred, considering them idiots who should be fired or never work on a game again and it's something I've noticed throughout my time in gaming communities for the past decade or so and I fail to understand why. Like yes, people can be childish, but to this extent?

It feels like sometimes people are so selfish that if a game developer isn't doing exactly what they want, they will hate them and wish them misfortune. This kind of toxic behavior needs to be called out and improved upon and I feel it is quite an issue in all gaming communities at this point.

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You cannot stop HUMANS from being hateful. It's not something inherent to the gaming community but to HUMANS.

Mifec said:

Perpetuating the damaging myth that 30fps is more cinematic and claiming they know better instead of just saying that's what the console allows.


He already did the damage he intended to do and massively profited from it. He's an anti consumer scumbag and him shutting up and "learning" his lesson doesn't suddenly take away from what he did.

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"Damaging" "Scumbag" just puts you on another level than I'll ever be able to argue, really.

HanSoloCup said:

Calling him out like you just did is kind of his whole point though. You just illustrated that we all need to work on ourselves as well. And, even though you might have lost respect for his words because of things he said, his desire to work together to stop the hate and toxicity is still a good thing. Heal don't hate.

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I would have more respect if he admitted that he also needs to work on that. But instead he didn't, he's just vaguely calling out other users and not saying that it's something that we all need to work on.

I don't disagree with the OP in theory but the person posting it made this laughable for me. You don't stop hate and toxicity by also spreading hate and toxicity.

Mifec said:

Perpetuating the damaging myth that 30fps is more cinematic and claiming they know better instead of just saying that's what the console allows.

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Oh i was thinking they lied about coop or something. Heh