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lmcfigs

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
12,091
Is Israel not a democracy where the residents elect who they want to represent them?

Or are you arguing that the elections were fraudulent and the current regime was not put in place by the majority?
I meant American frauds, like Chuck Schumer who are supposed to ostensibly represent the left-wing party of the U.S.

But also I was agreeing that since Israel is a democracy, it's citizens clearly do support many of these actions against Palestinians.
 

sirap

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,232
South East Asia
Netanyahu has been reelected 3 times. At some point you've got to stop putting all the blame on one man and start taking a real hard look at the people enabling him.
 

Bob The Skull

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
177
Chicago
So - I have read through the thread, but can't find an answer to my question: What was/is the Palestinians in Gaza trying to achieve with this? That it would end like this was, unfortunately, fairly predictable. We have had a few weeks of lead time with smaller scale "trial runs" of this scenario and nothing has changed in the approach of either side, and neither side has communicated that things would change. (And I do not mean the overall goal of Palestinian freedom and a return to Israel, that is very much well understood - I mean the goal of this specific protest in this specific way).
 

Keasar

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
5,724
Umeå, Sweden


Like western culture needed to take another dump on the middle east, now they have plastered the orange fuckhead's name in a holy city.
 
Oct 25, 2017
981

can we get some better dems in office this election cycle or what


All your politicians are paid by the israeli lobbies. Reb or democrat doesnt matter, in the end they have the same disgusting goals.

The most pathetic part of this is that american media just sweeps all this under the rug, home page of usa news, literally nothing about this.
 

sprinkles

Member
Oct 25, 2017
517
The closure of the four Israeli settlements in the Gaza Strip in 2005 really was a long con. After Hamas took over Israel's government has turned the whole city into the world's largest open air prison. And every protest like today can be ignored in the West because "Hamas are terrorists after all".
 

Hecht

Pushin’ me down, pushin’ me down, pushin’ me down
Administrator
Oct 24, 2017
9,740
Is it all right to make Nazi comparisons when an official Israel spokesperson is the one to make it?
No, it's not. You can discuss the tweet but we're not going to sink to his level, and allow comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany or Israelis and Nazis.
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,492
Kitchener, ON
All your politicians are paid by the israeli lobbies. Reb or democrat doesnt matter, in the end they have the same disgusting goals.

The most pathetic part of this is that american media just sweeps all this under the rug, home page of usa news, literally nothing about this.
Pretty much this. America could come together as a nation tomorrow and vote out Trump and every other Republican from power and they would STILL be... forever and always... Israel's bitch.

It's one of the rare instances where a "both sides are the same" stance is entirely accurate.
 

elty

Member
Oct 31, 2017
1,957
Should Israel be considered as a terrorist state by now? Any country that mass murder civilian of another country would have been considered one unless they are USA and Israel. EU better take a stand or will forever live under the shadow of US.
 
Last edited:

Whales

"This guy are sick"
Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,256
So - I have read through the thread, but can't find an answer to my question: What was/is the Palestinians in Gaza trying to achieve with this? That it would end like this was, unfortunately, fairly predictable. We have had a few weeks of lead time with smaller scale "trial runs" of this scenario and nothing has changed in the approach of either side, and neither side has communicated that things would change. (And I do not mean the overall goal of Palestinian freedom and a return to Israel, that is very much well understood - I mean the goal of this specific protest in this specific way).


yea so palestinians should just never protest right? because then there would just be more deaths?

better just to roll over to israel's command?
 

WoodensBalls

Banned
Feb 26, 2018
22
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American media is complicit in this. Dead how? Did they magically get killed by some unknown Force? No one can understand this phenomenon where Palestinians get hit by sniper fire coming in the direction of the IDF.
Western media has been doing this forever against POC and especially towards those from enemy states. If anything it implies the media isn't as independent as we'd like to think it is from the state. It parrots and hold the same view; just a softer version of it. This time we have NYT's "Dozens Palestinians have died..." (as if they just fell to the ground and died for no reason), or BBC's "Gaza clashes: Dozens killed..." (who was killed, who killed?) or AFP's "BREAKING Palestinian president condemns Israeli "massacres", refuses any US peace mediation" (no mention of Palestinians, massacres in quotes). Remember that NYT and BBC are supposedly very respected media/news outlets in the West lol. This isn't a "woops my bad, won't happen again". It's been done so many times that it's pretty obvious how it's a deliberate effort to muddy the waters. White man media downplays the atrocities done by a European colonial settler state. Color me surprised.

When people make arguments to justify armed incursions into various nations by the western world to stop genocide, dictatorships, etc., why are the same people not demanding that military force be used to stop Israel?
Not enough moderate rebels in Israel, Yemen, Bahrain, Saudi Arabia etc.
 
Oct 27, 2017
1,849
All your politicians are paid by the israeli lobbies. Reb or democrat doesnt matter, in the end they have the same disgusting goals.

The most pathetic part of this is that american media just sweeps all this under the rug, home page of usa news, literally nothing about this.
This is the problem. The whole US political system is in Israel's pocket. With the added bonus of an easily manipulated moron in the White House.

Up next, the destruction of Iran. You can book mark this. Netanyahu and the lobby have already begun maneuvering Trump towards that goal.
 
Oct 27, 2017
39,148
Æ
So - I have read through the thread, but can't find an answer to my question: What was/is the Palestinians in Gaza trying to achieve with this? That it would end like this was, unfortunately, fairly predictable. We have had a few weeks of lead time with smaller scale "trial runs" of this scenario and nothing has changed in the approach of either side, and neither side has communicated that things would change. (And I do not mean the overall goal of Palestinian freedom and a return to Israel, that is very much well understood - I mean the goal of this specific protest in this specific way).
Better to die trying than to bend over and let your rights get stomped over. I guess if we use your line of logic then the many different revolutions are pointless since many people died.
 

Muffin

Member
Oct 26, 2017
10,346
So - I have read through the thread, but can't find an answer to my question: What was/is the Palestinians in Gaza trying to achieve with this? That it would end like this was, unfortunately, fairly predictable. We have had a few weeks of lead time with smaller scale "trial runs" of this scenario and nothing has changed in the approach of either side, and neither side has communicated that things would change. (And I do not mean the overall goal of Palestinian freedom and a return to Israel, that is very much well understood - I mean the goal of this specific protest in this specific way).
What other choice do they have? Slowly letting Gaza detoriorate further while doing nothing? Letting Israel achieve their goal of incremental genocide with their blockade of the Gaza strip?
 

Bob The Skull

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
177
Chicago
yea so palestinians should just never protest right? because then there would just be more deaths?

better just to roll over to israel's command?

Of course they should protest - you will notice that I did not say in my post that they should not protest. I genuinely can't understand the goal of this protest, in this way at the border given the earlier results. If this had been a more regular "armed" engagement between the Gazans and the IDF then I could at least understand why they would be willing to give up their lives. It is not likely that I would agree with how "effective" it would be, but given the context of a direct armed engagement, I would likely at least comprehend the motivation for the people who chose to engage in an armed conflict that way, even if I might not agree.
 

BuryAllen

Member
Oct 28, 2017
436
How the hell is there no major outrage on any media sites, social media, from big celebrities, protests, etc from Americans? Major outlets are simply saying its "clashes". Are we just brainwashed like if it's nothing

look up what happened with celebs when they posted stuff on social media in 2014
it's just asking to be attacked by people there
 
Oct 25, 2017
828
At this point I just want this thread title to make it extra abundantly clear that Israel is disproportionately killing and maiming scores of protesting Palestinians while the Trump, Netanyahu and Israel lobby machines are having a comfortable circlejerk in an embassy that was almost certainly deliberately relocated to Jerusalem for easily predictable reasons. The wording right now is utterly weak, barely a notch above the BBC's timid headline.

Where are you now, Theresa May? If you're so "concerned" about the brutal violence and are committed to a two-state solution in the region, how about you show your face and tell us all that you condemn Israel's actions today? You're as pathetic and toothless as the rest of them. At least the evil gits beholden to Netanyahu and bankrolling the Trump machine don't beat around the bush about what their vision for "peace" in the region looks like (hint: the fewer Palestinians and the more land for the Israeli state the better).
 

Theologian

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
64
The Real Dispute Driving the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

"As the U.S. moves its embassy to Jerusalem, and the tragedy at the Gaza border escalates, Israelis and Palestinians continue to contest each other's rights not just to that city, but to legitimacy itself...The most significant political divide in Israel today is no longer between right and left, but between right and center: right-wingers who believe that there is no partner for peace and so Israel should settle and annex the West Bank, and centrists who believe that there is no partner for peace but Israel still needs to try to extract itself from the occupation, even unilaterally if necessary. Neither camp believes in the possibility of reconciliation with the Palestinians any time soon. Israelis and Palestinians are caught in what could be called a "cycle of denial." The Palestinian national movement denies Israel's legitimacy, and Israel in turn denies the Palestinians' national sovereignty. The cycle of denial has defined this shared existence since the creation of Israel 70 years ago...The key to ending the occupation, then, is beginning a new conversation on peace between Palestinians and Israelis—not only about the technical details of an agreement, but about the intangible issues of legitimacy and rootedness of two indigenous peoples fated to share the same tortured land. The international community can help by expressing its vigorous opposition not only to Israeli settlement building, but also to the Palestinian campaign that portrays the Jewish return home to any part of the land as a colonialist affront." (Yossi Klein Halevi, Senior fellow at the Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem, 5/14/18)​
 

UberTag

The Fallen
Oct 25, 2017
15,492
Kitchener, ON
Up next, the destruction of Iran. You can book mark this. Netanyahu and the lobby have already begun maneuvering Trump towards that goal.
Another great point. It would be ludicrous to presume that Israel would simply let their position of influence on both the United States and western media as a whole abate even if they were successful in their goal of annihilating the Palestinian people and purifying the Israeli state tomorrow.

They'll instead wield that influence against Iran and their other nation-state enemies in hopes of crippling them economically or worse. They'll get away with it, too... except against Pakistan because they've got nukes.
 

Masquerader

Banned
Nov 4, 2017
1,383
No, it's not. You can discuss the tweet but we're not going to sink to his level, and allow comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany or Israelis and Nazis.

Despite the general actual undeniable similarities? This nightmare has all the same signs, including citizens who presumably turn a blind eye and actually vote for these monsters. Well, if they support actual mass-murderers and vote for mass-murderers, then they're absolutely OK with mass murder.

Yes, that's a comparison to Nazi Germany. Ban me all you want, but can you honestly see Palestine and Palestinians surviving another 10 years against Israel, when they could show mercy but choose unimaginable cruelty instead? No, this isn't a condemnation of Jews, because that would be wrong. This is a condemnation of Israel, an incredibly aggressive state which intends to outright commit genocide. But apparently, being against them is the REAL controversial position.

Oh, and it would be nice if someone could actually tell me how I'm wrong, instead of accusing me of anti-semitism. I loath discrimination of any kind. That's also precisely why I loath the actions of the Israeli government.
 

Bob The Skull

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
177
Chicago
Æ

Better to die trying than to bend over and let your rights get stomped over. I guess if we use your line of logic then the many different revolutions are pointless since many people died.
See above. It is not that I think revolutions are pointless. If Gazans were using this to infiltrate Israel, or if they had engaged in an armed conflict instead, or if they had moved the protest further away from the border, or if they had hijacked an airplane etc. I could understand it (but would probably not agree with). For each of those actions, there would be an assessment (consciouss or not) of how many are going to die vs. what do we get out of it. For this particular protest, the risk-reward tradeoff seems so off to me that I question why?
 

Kinthalis

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
481
Not that it really matters, in the context of this fucking brutality from Israel and their bullshit, but hasn't Archaeology debunked the King David as ruler of a unified Kingdom of Israel anyway? So it's not even based on historical "truth" as that dumb ass on the tweet claims, but rather on biblical myths.
 

Dunlop

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,512
Oct 25, 2017
6,123
Brooklyn, NY
The Real Dispute Driving the Israeli-Palestinian Conflict

"As the U.S. moves its embassy to Jerusalem, and the tragedy at the Gaza border escalates, Israelis and Palestinians continue to contest each other's rights not just to that city, but to legitimacy itself...The most significant political divide in Israel today is no longer between right and left, but between right and center: right-wingers who believe that there is no partner for peace and so Israel should settle and annex the West Bank, and centrists who believe that there is no partner for peace but Israel still needs to try to extract itself from the occupation, even unilaterally if necessary. Neither camp believes in the possibility of reconciliation with the Palestinians any time soon. Israelis and Palestinians are caught in what could be called a "cycle of denial." The Palestinian national movement denies Israel's legitimacy, and Israel in turn denies the Palestinians' national sovereignty. The cycle of denial has defined this shared existence since the creation of Israel 70 years ago...The key to ending the occupation, then, is beginning a new conversation on peace between Palestinians and Israelis—not only about the technical details of an agreement, but about the intangible issues of legitimacy and rootedness of two indigenous peoples fated to share the same tortured land. The international community can help by expressing its vigorous opposition not only to Israeli settlement building, but also to the Palestinian campaign that portrays the Jewish return home to any part of the land as a colonialist affront." (Yossi Klein Halevi, Senior fellow at the Shalom Hartman Institute in Jerusalem, 5/14/18)​

Any "both sides" equivalency is utter garbage. This is an asymmetrical conflict where the balance of power overwhelmingly favors Israel, and consequently Israel must bear the vast majority of responsibility for its perpetuation.
 

Frodo

Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
4,338
Should Israel be considered as a terrorist state by now? Any country that mass murder civilian of another country would have been considered one unless they are USA and Israel. EU better take a stand or will forever live under the shadow of US.

I've been saying Israel is a terrorist state for quite some time now.

It seems the International Community isn't eager to make that distinction, though.
 

TDLink

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,411
Any "both sides" equivalency is utter garbage. This is an asymmetrical conflict where the balance of power overwhelmingly favors Israel, and consequently Israel must bear the vast majority of responsibility for its perpetuation.
I'm not going to condone the actions of Israel today in any way, and I want to make that clear. But I also don't think they're the only ones that should be held responsible here. Gaza is the way it is due to many other countries in the middle east not giving a shit/outright hating the Palestinians, including Egypt which also shares a border (and have their own wall) with Gaza. Israel is the only one repeatedly brought up, but there's other contributors to this problem. One more, obvious, contributor to today's violence of course is America itself for forcing this embassy move that even Israel didn't particularly want.
 
Apr 30, 2018
79
User Banned (1 week): Do not condone violence or killing.
Tossing molotovs at armed forces doesnt seem like the brightest idea.... especially when they know how IDF responds. Terrible for all the human lives lost, during this never ending conflict.

All the rockets and carbombs directed Israel over the decades didn't help either but no, only Israel is at fault here according to progressives.

I wish the IDF wasn't using lethal force but they must protect themselves.
 

Green Yoshi

Attempted to circumvent ban with an alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,597
Cologne (Germany)
Ban me all you want, but can you honestly see Palestine and Palestinians surviving another 10 years against Israel, when they could show mercy but choose unimaginable cruelty instead?
The population of Gaza is growing. The standard of living is the problem.

I wish the IDF wasn't using lethal force but they must protect themselves.

I think arresting them when they cross the border would work as well. They could use stun guns and smoke bombs.