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Veelk

Member
Oct 25, 2017
14,705
I'd say a big part of the game is portraying Kratos as a very flawed teacher. Not every lesson he tries to teach the boy is a good or healthy one. I don't think it's patting him on the back either as it is portraying him as trying to make a good choice in a fucked up situation but Kratos through out the game has hardly been making the best decisions or judgments through out.
But the entire thing is framed as Kratos having changed for the better. After he kills Baldur, Freya rants that he sucks and can't change, to which Kratos holds his head high and says that means she doesn't know him at all, which then Freya puts to the test by reminding him how he keeps his past secret, to which Kratos then finally opens up and tells him his past, showing that he indeed has changed from how secretive he was at the start of the game.

The entire thing is framed as Kratos being right about what he did in that moment. It doesn't feel ambiguous at all and it's clearly signalling that Freya is wrong and just deranged by grief.
 

remanutd

Member
Oct 29, 2017
1,350
New York
So i was like 2/3 into the story and my ps4 froze and i press initialize again and now i lost my save files!!!!!! Urgggg!!!!! Is there any way to recover the files without being a ps plus member?
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,261
But the entire thing is framed as Kratos having changed for the better. After he kills Baldur, Freya rants that he sucks and can't change, to which Kratos holds his head high and says that means she doesn't know him at all, which then Freya puts to the test by reminding him how he keeps his past secret, to which Kratos then finally opens up and tells him his past, showing that he indeed has changed from how secretive he was at the start of the game.

The entire thing is framed as Kratos being right about what he did in that moment. It doesn't feel ambiguous at all and it's clearly signalling that Freya is wrong and just deranged by grief.

I saw it as him coming to terms with himself and his past, not changing on some intrinsic level for the better.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
Apologies since this has probably been asked and answered a thousand times, but I couldn't make out what the final mural under the tapestry was in Jotunheim, the one only Kratos saw. What was the significance of that?
 
Oct 27, 2017
12,756
I always feel like Loki is a good god compare to all the glorified gods in Norse mythology. The fact he's being painted as a villain also feels very suspicious to me, cause he never seemed evil to me.

The entire story of him killing Baldur feels very incomplete, the motive behind it is also unclear, it's almost like the story is narrated with bias.

So yeah, I don't buy that ''Loki equals Evil'' bullshit, even in real life.

Loki wasn't evil in the sense Satan is evil. He was a trickster, a dick and a troll who liked to stir the pot and cause trouble. But he wasn't all out evil.

But then again, most of the Norse gods engaged in various degrees of dickery.
 

Blade Wolf

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,512
Taiwan
I just realized the entirety of old God Of War franchise is also set in Midgard. That's fucking mindblowning, like how does that even work????

listing-8c817632-d1f6-443d-b21b-e1e58797f26c.jpg
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,764
Apologies since this has probably been asked and answered a thousand times, but I couldn't make out what the final mural under the tapestry was in Jotunheim, the one only Kratos saw. What was the significance of that?

96giteqn2yt01.jpg


It's Atreus and possible Kratos laying injured or something, with looks like some sort of snake above them. Some say it's Jormungandr but it's also possible that's the poisonous snake Thor hang above Loki, far beneath the earth to torture him in the original myth or it's the intestines of one his children thor used to bind Atrerus /Loki with. Or it's none of the above and it's a total red herring.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,045
So i was like 2/3 into the story and my ps4 froze and i press initialize again and now i lost my save files!!!!!! Urgggg!!!!! Is there any way to recover the files without being a ps plus member?

If you didn't do regular backups to something like a USB flash drive, they're most likely gone.
 

Deleted member 10612

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,774
It just occurred to me, Frey is dev going to resurrect Baldur, like she did with Mimir. No way she's simply going to let him stay dead. Maybe shell keep him as a permanent living dead (much like she used the giant).
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,045
It just occurred to me, Frey is dev going to resurrect Baldur, like she did with Mimir. No way she's simply going to let him stay dead.

Probably. Mimir mentioned in post game that she might not because he might come back not as himself entirely like him. But yea, I can see her reviving him.
 

TiamatSword

Chicken Chaser
Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,511
It just occurred to me, Frey is dev going to resurrect Baldur, like she did with Mimir. No way she's simply going to let him stay dead.
If you go back to the cave under her house after you finish the game there's a conversation about this. Mimir says something along the lines of how what Freya did to him isn't true resurrection and she would be unlikely to do that to her son.
 

chogidogs

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,357
It just occurred to me, Frey is dev going to resurrect Baldur, like she did with Mimir. No way she's simply going to let him stay dead. Maybe shell keep him as a permanent living dead (much like she used the giant).

There's a line of dialogue from Mimir that said that Freya wouldn't do that to his son cause Mimir himself doesn't feel like he's alive.
 

LiK

Member
Oct 25, 2017
32,045
She might do it if she was desperate enough altho i can see her also just burying him and coming for Kratos in the next game.
 

i-hate-u

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,374
It just occurred to me, Frey is dev going to resurrect Baldur, like she did with Mimir. No way she's simply going to let him stay dead. Maybe shell keep him as a permanent living dead (much like she used the giant).

Nah Mimir said that he himself is dead, and is simply animated. I don't think she wants that for her son.

And on the subject of Kratos and the Freya/Baldur thing, I think many parents in Freya's shoes would react the same way she did (as in allow her son to kill her for him to live), and most people with a moral conscious would react the same way Kratos did (as in stop a consensual murder). The unconditional love of a mother is seen by Kratos as evil, and the protection of a seemingly innocent life is seen as evil by Freya. If the roles were reversed, Freya would have killed Atreus to save Kratos, and Kratos would have condemned her. That is because both Freya and Kratos (his current version of himself) are inherently trying to be good-willed individuals for redemption. I think the line at the end where Kratos tells Atreus that if the roles were reversed he would be ok with himself getting killed, is because he recognizes this fact.
 

The Silver

Member
Oct 28, 2017
10,708
I don't see why Freya wouldn't be crazy enough to bring Baldur back if she was willing to force a torturous existence on him that eventually drove him to insanity. An existence she could've ended anytime.
 

Ravelle

Member
Oct 31, 2017
17,764
I didnt. Urggggggg!!!!! Noooooo!!!!!!

Oh man, I'm so sorry dude. :( I obsessively backup my saves to the cloud in case my PS4 gives out or the game messes up. I really wish the PS4 did that automatically though.

It just occurred to me, Frey is dev going to resurrect Baldur, like she did with Mimir. No way she's simply going to let him stay dead. Maybe shell keep him as a permanent living dead (much like she used the giant).

I'm curious what route the games will take, Balder's soul is suppose to be stuck in Hel until Ragnarok, someone has to get his soul out of there or at least try, I don't think it's going to be as easy as dipping him in a kettle.
 

Deleted member 10612

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
2,774
You all forget that Freya willingly let her son suffer for hundreds of years (enough to make him want to kill her) just to keep him alive, what is a little living dead compared to what she has already done? Would really like it if Baldur, in part II, was something like the Demons Souls end boss, no fight - you just release him of his suffering...
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,997
I don't see why Freya wouldn't be crazy enough to bring Baldur back if she was willing to force a torturous existence on him that eventually drove him to insanity. An existence she could've ended anytime.
Yeah, she lied to him and told him that she couldn't fix him, even though she knew the whole time how to reverse it.
 

Strafer

The Flagpole is Wider
Member
Oct 25, 2017
29,358
Sweden
So I noticed now during my second playthrough that you can see that the fire troll will attack after the deer scene in the beginning, small sparks appear in the right corner.
 

Cyborg

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,955
Guys... help!
Besten all Valkyries, I dont seem to have the armor to upgrade. When I visit the shops its just not there.

Ivadis armor and bunch of others are but Valkyries not.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
I have to say I'm disappointed by the story as a whole, and the ending in particular. They do so much world-building in this game, and that's great, I think it's all fascinating. But it hardly amounts to anything more than franchise bait, it's all sequel foreshadowing. Nothing happens in this game, it's so concerned with justifying its own existence, that I even think the father-son dynamic is kind of undercooked and the character development rushed through in the mid-game, when Atreus gets shitty for like an hour or two. There are so few characters in the game! There's Kratos, Atreus, Mimir, Baldur, Freya, Thor's failsons and the blacksmiths, that's literally it. And there's ONE woman in the bunch. And if the game really needed to tackle any of the shitty legacy of the older games, it was the misogyny, not the violence. It doesn't really do that. It doesn't give Faye any kind of voice either, and I think that's disappointing for many reasons. I expect they might in the sequel but that doesn't mean I want to let this game off the hook. It feels VERY sparse on narrative. Some good theming, I mostly like what's there. But for a game this long, with this much narrative potential, I think it's super underwhelming, both from a story perspective and a gameplay perspective (not a lot of interesting boss fights).

I like the game, I think it's a solid 8/10. But I just don't see the game that got the unanimous praise.
 

Cyborg

Banned
Oct 30, 2017
1,955
User Warned: Drive-by dismissal.
I have to say I'm disappointed by the story as a whole, and the ending in particular. They do so much world-building in this game, and that's great, I think it's all fascinating. But it hardly amounts to anything more than franchise bait, it's all sequel foreshadowing. Nothing happens in this game, it's so concerned with justifying its own existence, that I even think the father-son dynamic is kind of undercooked and the character development rushed through in the mid-game, when Atreus gets shitty for like an hour or two. There are so few characters in the game! There's Kratos, Atreus, Mimir, Baldur, Freya, Thor's failsons and the blacksmiths, that's literally it. And there's ONE woman in the bunch. And if the game really needed to tackle any of the shitty legacy of the older games, it was the misogyny, not the violence. It doesn't really do that. It doesn't give Faye any kind of voice either, and I think that's disappointing for many reasons. I expect they might in the sequel but that doesn't mean I want to let this game off the hook. It feels VERY sparse on narrative. Some good theming, I mostly like what's there. But for a game this long, with this much narrative potential, I think it's super underwhelming, both from a story perspective and a gameplay perspective (not a lot of interesting boss fights).

I like the game, I think it's a solid 8/10. But I just don't see the game that got the unanimous praise.

You are missing the point but its your opinion. So Im fine
 

OnanieBomb

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,476
Somewhat off-topic: Has anyone traded this in at Best Buy? I'm wondering what the trade-in value is, it's not up on their site yet. I kinda have the impulse to go get Lost Legacy.
 

Hero

One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,742
I have to say I'm disappointed by the story as a whole, and the ending in particular. They do so much world-building in this game, and that's great, I think it's all fascinating. But it hardly amounts to anything more than franchise bait, it's all sequel foreshadowing. Nothing happens in this game, it's so concerned with justifying its own existence, that I even think the father-son dynamic is kind of undercooked and the character development rushed through in the mid-game, when Atreus gets shitty for like an hour or two. There are so few characters in the game! There's Kratos, Atreus, Mimir, Baldur, Freya, Thor's failsons and the blacksmiths, that's literally it. And there's ONE woman in the bunch. And if the game really needed to tackle any of the shitty legacy of the older games, it was the misogyny, not the violence. It doesn't really do that. It doesn't give Faye any kind of voice either, and I think that's disappointing for many reasons. I expect they might in the sequel but that doesn't mean I want to let this game off the hook. It feels VERY sparse on narrative. Some good theming, I mostly like what's there. But for a game this long, with this much narrative potential, I think it's super underwhelming, both from a story perspective and a gameplay perspective (not a lot of interesting boss fights).

I like the game, I think it's a solid 8/10. But I just don't see the game that got the unanimous praise.

I'm not pleased with the way that the game fridges Faye at the very beginning without knowing her at all, let alone seeing her. At least in Last of Us you saw a little bit of Joel's daughter. And like you mentioned, Freya does nothing but constantly help Kratos and Atreus and they pay her back by killing her son in front of her after her pleading for them to stop the violence. If the story was supposed to be a take on Kratos changing from his old ways and/or making up for his misogyny, the game fell flat during the final parts.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
User Warned: Hostility.
You are missing the point but its your opinion. So Im fine
hey you could have just not said anything instead of leaving a drive-by shitpost like this, but thanks for insulting my intelligence, dipshit

I'm not pleased with the way that the game fridges Faye at the very beginning without knowing her at all, let alone seeing her. At least in Last of Us you saw a little bit of Joel's daughter. And like you mentioned, Freya does nothing but constantly help Kratos and Atreus and they pay her back by killing her son in front of her after her pleading for them to stop the violence. If the story was supposed to be a take on Kratos changing from his old ways and/or making up for his misogyny, the game fell flat during the final parts.

I don't entirely agree with you on the Baldur stuff, guy clearly needed to be put down. But the way the writing basically forced Kratos to kill him gives him a way too easy out on that one. I'm less pleased overall with how Freya devolves into just constantly yelling "PLEASE STOP FIGHT" at the end and then just disappears for obvious sequel bait.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,997
I'm not pleased with the way that the game fridges Faye at the very beginning without knowing her at all, let alone seeing her. At least in Last of Us you saw a little bit of Joel's daughter. And like you mentioned, Freya does nothing but constantly help Kratos and Atreus and they pay her back by killing her son in front of her after her pleading for them to stop the violence. If the story was supposed to be a take on Kratos changing from his old ways and/or making up for his misogyny, the game fell flat during the final parts.
If they didn't kill Balder he would have killed them and Freya. They killed him because they had to and because Kratos wanted to stop the cycle of children killing their parents.
While it is kinda disappointing that you don't get to really see Faye her influence shouldn't be understated, she had a huge role in the game beyond being a dead mother.
I don't entirely agree with you on the Baldur stuff, guy clearly needed to be put down. But the way the writing basically forced Kratos to kill him gives him a way too easy out on that one. I'm less pleased overall with how Freya devolves into just constantly yelling "PLEASE STOP FIGHT" at the end and then just disappears for obvious sequel bait.
Parents will do anything to protect their children, that's the point.
 

HStallion

Member
Oct 25, 2017
62,261
I'm not pleased with the way that the game fridges Faye at the very beginning without knowing her at all, let alone seeing her. At least in Last of Us you saw a little bit of Joel's daughter. And like you mentioned, Freya does nothing but constantly help Kratos and Atreus and they pay her back by killing her son in front of her after her pleading for them to stop the violence. If the story was supposed to be a take on Kratos changing from his old ways and/or making up for his misogyny, the game fell flat during the final parts.

Freya wasn't fridged. She doesn't die on screen by some external force and left so Kratos can find her to give him gravitas.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
Parents will do anything to protect their children, that's the point.
I know, but I don't like how they deferred the resolution for this to an obvious sequel. Kratos doesn't have to feel bad about killing Baldur because of the way that situation was written. But Kratos being forced to then reckon with a very angry Freya would be more interesting morally. Now he just gets let off the hook.
 

ArchedThunder

Uncle Beerus
Member
Oct 25, 2017
18,997
I know, but I don't like how they deferred the resolution for this to an obvious sequel. Kratos doesn't have to feel bad about killing Baldur because of the way that situation was written. But Kratos being forced to then reckon with a very angry Freya would be more interesting morally. Now he just gets let off the hook.
Kratos "lets her off the hook" because he understands her pain and doesn't blame her and both he and Mimir hope that she can come to terms with what happened and understand why Kratos did what he did.
 

rusty chrome

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,640
I'm not pleased with the way that the game fridges Faye at the very beginning without knowing her at all, let alone seeing her. At least in Last of Us you saw a little bit of Joel's daughter. And like you mentioned, Freya does nothing but constantly help Kratos and Atreus and they pay her back by killing her son in front of her after her pleading for them to stop the violence. If the story was supposed to be a take on Kratos changing from his old ways and/or making up for his misogyny, the game fell flat during the final parts.
Why are you even bringing up The Last of Us like every developer is supposed to have the same vision? So what if they showed Joel's daughter? She was crucial to that part of the story IN THAT GAME and Cory didn't feel Faye needed to be revealed yet IN THIS GAME.

Faye will show up when it's time for the story to focus on her and explain what exactly happened to her. This wasn't the game for that and you need to accept that. It seems weird to think you're owed everything in one game, just like the people that wanted to kill Thor in this game.

I too am very curious about Faye but how do you know the reason they didn't show her face is because her reveal is going to be done in a very surprising way, such as being playable? I trust that Cory reveals what makes the most sense for the story in due time, not everything in one go.

And fucking lol @ you once again acting like Kratos killed Baldur in front of Freya for fun. Baldur was going to kill her, and if you think it would have been right to see her get murdered, something's wrong with you.
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
Kratos "lets her off the hook" because he understands her pain and doesn't blame her and both he and Mimir hope that she can come to terms with what happened and understand why Kratos did what he did.
You misread what I said, I'm saying the story lets Kratos off the hook for killing Baldur because it's the only reasonable choice he could have made. Dealing with Freya afterwards would have been more interesting narratively but that did not happen. The way that entire situation was written and resolved lets Kratos off the hook for his choices there.

Faye will show up when it's time for the story to focus on her and explain what exactly happened to her. This wasn't the game for that and you need to accept that. It seems weird to think you're owed everything in one game, just like the people that wanted to kill Thor in this game.

I too am very curious about Faye but how do you know the reason they didn't show her face is because her reveal is going to be done in a very surprising way, such as being playable? I trust that Cory reveals what makes the most sense for the story in due time, not everything in one go.

I'm only speaking for myself but I feel that Faye's absence left a void IN THIS GAME and I am judging this game on its own merits, not how a potential sequel will rectify what I see as a flaw. It's fair game to criticize because we're years out from a sequel, it's not like this is a TV show where we see another episode in a week. I'm not down for this "the devs are perfect unassailable visionaries and every choice they make is the right one" kind of defense of art.
 

Valus

Member
Nov 21, 2017
1,084
Well that escalated quickly.
Seriously, I laughed.

I think the game is fantastic but do agree it could have had more story. World building is there with the sidequests but they don't have much gravity, even the Valkyrie quest line. I would have liked to see more characters introduced in the side stories instead of them being all dead and explained away by Kratos or Mimir.

The middle of the game dragged for me a bit, but it's mostly my own fault because I did all optional stuff as soon as available so for me, the time it took to get from intro Baldur fight to Magni fight was simply too long.

Speaking of that, I would've liked more god fights as well.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,696
Argentina
You misread what I said, I'm saying the story lets Kratos off the hook for killing Baldur because it's the only reasonable choice he could have made. Dealing with Freya afterwards would have been more interesting narratively but that did not happen. The way that entire situation was written and resolved lets Kratos off the hook for his choices there.

Yeah but the story they wanted to tell with the game was finished (the story about Kratos and Atreus). Starting a story between Kratos and Freya after Kratos confession would feel off.
 

Xelan

One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
765
So since Freya was cursed by Odin to not be able to harm others through physical or magical force, do you think she will play the long game and help you kill Odin so that the curse is broken with his death and it is actually Freya who will be the "final boss" of the series?
 

Deleted member 203

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,899
Yeah but the story they wanted to tell with the game was finished (the story about Kratos and Atreus). Starting a story between Kratos and Freya after Kratos confession would feel off.
But they already HAD started that story in this game. I felt like it was lacking a resolution. I think they should have moved the killing of Baldur to a much earlier point in the game, and then have the fallout with Freya after. I think narratively that would have been more interesting because Baldur is easy to justify beating up on - Freya not as much, and that could have led to interesting conflicts between Atreus and Kratos, and an interesting internal conflict for Kratos wanting to escape the cycle of violence yet seeming unable to do so.
 

rusty chrome

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
8,640
You misread what I said, I'm saying the story lets Kratos off the hook for killing Baldur because it's the only reasonable choice he could have made. Dealing with Freya afterwards would have been more interesting narratively but that did not happen. The way that entire situation was written and resolved lets Kratos off the hook for his choices there.



I'm only speaking for myself but I feel that Faye's absence left a void IN THIS GAME and I am judging this game on its own merits, not how a potential sequel will rectify what I see as a flaw. It's fair game to criticize because we're years out from a sequel, it's not like this is a TV show where we see another episode in a week. I'm not down for this "the devs are perfect unassailable visionaries and every choice they make is the right one" kind of defense of art.
...That's you. We got a lot in this game, and I'd prefer for her reveal to be set in a time where she was still alive rather than some tired-ass spirit/flashback version of her, like too many games do. Faye is a very special character. I'd prefer she not be wasted, and Cory clearly and thankfully agrees there.
 
Oct 27, 2017
7,135
Somewhere South
Maybe, but they shouldn't pat him on the back for it. They didn't for most of the rest of the game, but now they want to go "Look how much he's changed for the better" while still pulling this shit?

Uh, who is this "they" you're talking about, really? If anything, the only commentary the game makes on it is Mímir saying that they're the bad guys, now, and that serves to show that morals aren't really simple and clear cut.

Kratos understanding Freya and empathising with her in her wish to protect her son at all costs, even though he just went against these very wishes isn't so much hypocritical as it is a commentary on how complex and messy and irrational and subjective the lines between right and wrong, good and bad, are.
 

MegaSackman

Member
Oct 27, 2017
17,696
Argentina
But they already HAD started that story in this game. I felt like it was lacking a resolution. I think they should have moved the killing of Baldur to a much earlier point in the game, and then have the fallout with Freya after. I think narratively that would have been more interesting because Baldur is easy to justify beating up on - Freya not as much, and that could have led to interesting conflicts between Atreus and Kratos, and an interesting internal conflict for Kratos wanting to escape the cycle of violence yet seeming unable to do so.

I don't know, I can't see things the way you're seeing them, maybe it could have worked your way.
Considering where we're coming from (previous games) I'm more than happy with the end result of this game.