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Deleted member 888

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Yeah sure, those sites pop up mixed in with a majority of stories from mainstream media outlets. I didn't see a lot of YouTube videos covering it.

What I was more referring to was whether the right-wing personalities speaking at things like this march have had much to say about it. I can't find anything by Lauren Southern, Gavin McInnes, Milo or Richard Spencer on it, but there's plenty about them defending the free speech of someone posting Nazi related content.

Milo's site covered it - https://www.dangerous.com/43697/u-k-woman-guilty-hate-crime-posting-rap-lyric-instagram/

Southern tweeted about it



Richard Spencer condoned the whole event, as you can see above in this topic.

edit: McInnes just retweeted PJW

8U9AaQ6.png
 
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ChuckStank

Banned
Mar 14, 2018
242
User Warned: Community Generalizations
He sold his company to Microsoft and made sure those who stayed on did get paid, out of his own pocket.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/everyone-who-stayed-at-mojang-after-microsoft-buyo/1100-6427797/

People acting like Markus treated all the workers like shit because he sold Mojang for over $2.5 billion.

He did something similar back in 2012, when the team was celebrating what looks like 5 million sales.



This is basically Resetera in a nutshell. Base their opinions off of emotions and not facts.
 

Deleted member 13364

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Deleted member 888

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Cool. Clearly a few token tweets is on an entirely different level from their engagement with the Nazi pug case though.

They have an identity and face to the Markus Meechan case. As far as I'm aware Chelsea Russell hasn't interviewed anywhere or is public in any shape or form.

The basis for my posts wasn't "right wing people talk about things", I know they do. I explained why a fair few of them do it. My grievance was with how little left-leaning voices articulate themselves publicly, at times, presumably, out of fear of guilt by association. We all know getting together a twitter mob to demand someone's job or employment is the go-to tactic in 2018. It happened to Vanity Von Glow on the previous page just for attending and seemingly singing?



You might want to watch that video in incognito mode to not mess up your YT recommendations with shite.

And it is quite amusing watching the far-right AND some in the left go ballistic at Vanity Von Glow performing, for different, yet still as intolerant reasons.

You end up with what appears to be "centrists" like Tim Pool seemingly coming across as quite reasonable around this



When really it shouldn't be left to YouTubers to try and have a reasonable discussion around why she might have attended. Of which, I reject it's because she's now a far-right racist.

7boa4Es.png


That shouldn't be a controversial statement. It should be accepted as someone on the left attempting not to let the right-wing bulldoze every conversation around free speech until society keeps saying and accepting "freedom of speech is now a right-wing concern".

But it wasn't a joke, taken within the context of his activity on social media and the people he associates with.

That is not what the UK courts sentenced based on. The "public court" has taken Meechan to the cleaners over who he associates with, but the courts sentenced and fined strictly on the YouTube video itself.
 

sibarraz

Prophet of Regret - One Winged Slayer
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
18,162
Count Dankula sounds like a name that a 12 years old would came up for his YT channel
 

Mikebison

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
11,036
Somewhat tangentially related, Guns N Roses announced their remaster of Appetite for destruction along with the news that they'll be omitting the one in a million song because, well the lyrics are pretty horrific. Racist, homophobic and more.

But fucking tonnes of outlets have posted the lyrics fully uncensored, N-words, homophobic slurs and all, so people can see why GNR would omit it from the re-release. How is this any different to what that Chelsea girl did? Context? She posted the exact same thing as these blogs and news outlets, (albeit for a different reason and she clearly needs a bit of educating) but she's committed a crime apparently. The context is different, but the Dankula case has told us that the context of the words were not important? Which is it?
 

Branu

Banned
Feb 7, 2018
1,029
Didn't he speak against racism in the free speech rally in London?

Most people advocating for "free speech" are doing so to prevent the deplatforming of hate speech. And this guy has posted Pepe the frog before. He's been seen with alt-right personalities. He's defended by members of the alt-right, the support of whom he doesn't reject. At the very least, he's alt-light.
 

Deleted member 888

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Most people advocating for "free speech" are doing so to prevent the deplatforming of hate speech. And this guy has posted Pepe the frog before. He's been seen with alt-right personalities. He's defended by members of the alt-right, the support of whom he doesn't reject. At the very least, he's alt-light.

See, here's where we hit the crossroads between being accused of defending someone and how they behave, and simply stating when discussing someone, speak factually



You're free to not believe him, but what doesn't help is saying things like that without at least admitting the above happened (but you can add afterwards you don't believe him).

Sometimes provocative people are simply assholes. It doesn't mean every single asshole is a Nazi and alt-right. And before anyone says to me "but it doesn't really matter what we call people we don't like".... Yes, it does. Because the right continues to weaponize the insistence of many on the left branding anyone they ideologically oppose as alt-right and a Nazi. It wasn't smart in 2016, and it's not smart now it is still going on. Keep certain descriptors for when there is compelling evidence, not being intellectually lazy and just using them as the go-to accusation.

Posting Pepe doesn't mean you are a Nazi. In fact, the vast majority of assholes will do it because they know people on the left will go into overdrive insistence the mere act of tweeting or retweeting Pepe is how low the bar is to be called a Nazi. It might make you an asshole, but it doesn't always go hand in hand with making you a literal Nazi.

Just check this chump out



A complete moron who thinks they are being edgy and sticking it to the left, but very likely not a literal Nazi. Lots of younger people get caught up in this, and what isn't going to help try and challenge some of them and get them to grow up is a blanket lack of nuance and skipping over understanding when someone is simply a prick, versus when someone actually is a Nazi (or neo-Nazi).

A good chunk of these young men are probably akin to teenagers who never grew up that think they are rebelling against their Christian parents by listening to Marilyn Manson music. It's sad (especially when they hit 20's and 30's) and it often makes them tone deaf assholes, but it still matters to "diagnose" actual Nazi's properly.

edit: He's got another one of a 17-year-old clearly falling down that rabbit hole in that thread... and it's not a male for once https://twitter.com/GSpellchecker/status/994132416007688192

And another two which are men

https://twitter.com/GSpellchecker/status/994134293873086464

https://twitter.com/GSpellchecker/status/994135280507551744

edit2: And to make it crystal clear before this post potentially gets reported for "defending the Kekistan flag", that is not what I have done above, nor what I am doing.
 
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prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,367
But it wasn't a joke, taken within the context of his activity on social media and the people he associates with.
He can be a piece of shit and it can still be a joke. It's not a crime to be a piece of shit. If he's done criminal stuff, charge him. Teaching a dog a nazi salute is not a hate crime nor is it normalizing nazis.

It's a ridiculous charge, regardless of how despicable he may be as a person.
 

Branu

Banned
Feb 7, 2018
1,029
He can be a piece of shit and it can still be a joke. It's not a crime to be a piece of shit. If he's done criminal stuff, charge him. Teaching a dog a nazi salute is not a hate crime nor is it normalizing nazis.

It's a ridiculous charge, regardless of how despicable he may be as a person.

How is filming a dog saluting Nazis while making a comment about gassing Jews not a part of normalizing anti-semitism?
 

Branu

Banned
Feb 7, 2018
1,029
Yes, it does. Because the right continues to weaponize the insistence of many on the left branding anyone they ideologically oppose as alt-right and a Nazi.

John McCain is someone whom ideological differences with the left exists, but are they labeling him a Nazi or a member of the alt-right? I think it's intellectually lazy and dishonest to insist that the left universally assigns the label "Nazi" to anyone they fundamentally disagree with on ideological grounds.
 
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Deleted member 888

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John McCain is someone with whom ideological differences with the left exists, but are they labeling him a Nazi or a member of the alt-right? I think it's intellectually lazy and dishonest to insist that the left universally assigns the label "Nazi" to anyone they fundamentally disagree with on ideological grounds.

Not universally, just enough in general conversation that it's almost become an event for sizeable numbers on the right to try and coerce people on the left into calling them a Nazi. Heck, it even happens on this forum sometimes and did on GAF as well. It's not uncommon in public discourse, but no, I'm not saying it's Universal either.

It happens far more in American political discourse than British, and I bet you right now for 2020 many of the bots, trolls and more will be going full-time to try and get Democrats and supporters of the Democrats spending more time shouting about how everyone they oppose is a Nazi or alt-right, than anything else. Especially because sometimes it turns around to the accusations that even people on our own side are alt-right and Nazis (or sympathizers). The Trumpers will do exactly what they did last time on social media with trolling in order to try and wind the left up. A large pay off for them is the left then fighting amongst itself and getting paranoid people on the left are actually Nazi sympathizers and need to be purged. It wouldn't surprise me if some of my own posts in topics like this get reported as "sympathizing with the alt-right/Nazis".

The youth are finding a niche in being provocative because many of them, especially young men, enjoy the rise they get out of seeing such "extreme" headlines and comments written about them. This then grows what they refer to as their meme culture, a community where they see shitposting as having a purpose. It is all objectively very sad, but I can assure you the left doesn't help itself at times essentially pouring gasoline on the fire by being so hyperbolic. My takeaway is what its always been, sometimes its okay to call someone an asshole, or not a very respectable/nice person, without trying to fit them into the box of being a Nazi or alt-right. Sometimes its fine for social consequences to handle assholes, not handcuffs and the police.

Now, don't get me wrong, people from the alt-right and legit Neo-Nazis do love all of this, as it often allows them to blend into the noise and genuinely use all of this as a way to influence and attract people into their ranks. A very serious concern, but that is simply another part of this mess for reasonable people to try and challenge and work through. They also love the fact according to the mainstream, and many on the left, their movements are attributed to having tens of millions if not more, as the left does go overboard at times lumping in people to being alt-right.

More youth than ever uses the internet, and this is why all of this "culture war" isn't quite just idiots online arguing. I'm especially concerned about it as the youth typically have been a main player in left-wing politics, and while they still lead the polls quite substantially, the reach and popularity of a lot of provocateurs online is forever growing. Watch the videos I posted above. Quite a lot of young people. One girl who expresses she is 17, and she has a Kekistani flag and a Pepe tshirt. I wouldn't be surprised to find out she's going to vote Labour, but I'm also concerned the "new wave Conservatives" online will convince more youth to go Conservative. Even small percentages of the youth vote going right, can be the difference in swing locations.

edit: If you want an example of an incorrect overreaction from this community (as we are a left leaning community by large), Google the GAF topics on the Bungie Destiny armour that was said to be Kekistani armour. Right from the start, a vocal group had it set that Bungie had white supremacists/Nazis working in the graphics department and someone needed fired. No other possibility. Then even when an investigation was carried out of the removed armour and it was double Ks, or chevrons (the graphics lingo), it moved onto "Bungie is just covering up white supremacists". I'm sorry, but that was not only incorrect and embarrassing, but it played right into the hands of the trolls online to point and ridicule us. Even the girl videoed above (a rare example of a woman to be caught up in this) is very unlikely to be a Nazi, she's just young (easily influenced) and arguably fucking stupid/careless.
 
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Cyanity

Member
Oct 25, 2017
9,345
The only saving grace in all this is that Notch is depressed and alone, and no amount of money donated to nazis is gonna change that.
 

Vas

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,016
How is filming a dog saluting Nazis while making a comment about gassing Jews not a part of normalizing anti-semitism?

I don't know if it can be seen as normalizing anti-semitism. I feel like the situation depicted in the video is so obviously absurd that any reasonable person would be able to understand that he's being sardonic. It's not a normal situation by any stretch of the imagination.
 

stupei

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Oct 26, 2017
2,801
This guy just made his dog do nazi shit to fuck with his girlfriend. As far as anyone knows, he's not alt-right and doesn't believe in their bullshit.

The Scottish courts are trying to ruin this guy's life.

This whole idea that it was some private joke shared amongst friends and oh no they're policing our rights to just tell private jokes is absurd. It's a youtube video intended for public consumption. If he just intended it for his girlfriend, it would have been a video he sent directly to his girlfriend. There's a huge difference and pretending that there isn't is naive in the extreme.

I don't know if it can be seen as normalizing anti-semitism. I feel like the situation depicted in the video is so obviously absurd that any reasonable person would be able to understand that he's being sardonic. It's not a normal situation by any stretch of the imagination.

The idea isn't that this is a normal situation but rather that the words become normal, routine, and therefor neutered of their weight and context. Just as this dog was trained through Pavlovian responses, humans do modify our associations with phrases if repeatedly exposed to them in other contexts. When we said "fake news" at one time not very long ago, we associated the phrase with articles on Facebook that were actually literally made up. Now the term is more likely to make one think of Trump and it has become so muddied that it's utterly meaningless.

Just as people often accuse those on the left of robbing the word Nazi of its meaning, the use of Nazi imagery as a harmless jokey joke for fun that turns fascism into nothing more than amusing accessory removes much of the reality in a way that makes us more inclined to think everyone who says these things must always be joking, right, because gas the Jews is a funny joke thing someone would say as a joke, because it's absurdist and makes you laugh. No one could possibly ever mean it, right, so it's always harmless and saying it in public yourself is fine because obviously you're joking, how could anyone not know you're joking, it's just a joke.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,367
How is filming a dog saluting Nazis while making a comment about gassing Jews not a part of normalizing anti-semitism?
Because it's clearly a joke. As far as I'm aware, dogs aren't cognizant of the holocaust. As dark as it may be and as much as most people may disagree with it, it was a joke. If the guy was not giggling while making the video, showing ludicrous video to the dog or doing it seriously, you'd have a point.
 

Branu

Banned
Feb 7, 2018
1,029
I don't know if it can be seen as normalizing anti-semitism. I feel like the situation depicted in the video is so obviously absurd that any reasonable person would be able to understand that he's being sardonic. It's not a normal situation by any stretch of the imagination.

But that's precisely how the alt-right is currently propagating their noxious views. They trade in absurdities, painting it as ironic trolling, leaving many to just dismiss those antics as the shenanigans of pranksters who aren't to be taken seriously. Consequently, while we continue to hand wave their "jokes," those views settle into the fabric of public discourse and become normalized.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,058
Just as people often accuse those on the left of robbing the word Nazi of its meaning, the use of Nazi imagery as a harmless jokey joke for fun that turns fascism into nothing more than amusing accessory removes much of the reality in a way that makes us more inclined to think everyone who says these things must always be joking, right, because gas the Jews is a funny joke thing someone would say as a joke, because it's absurdist and makes you laugh. No one could possibly ever mean it, right, so it's always harmless and saying it in public yourself is fine because obviously you're joking, how could anyone not know you're joking, it's just a joke.
The joke isn't that it's "absurdist", the joke is that Nazis are such a universally-known horrifying thing that contrasts with the cute little pug. That means that the joke only works if Nazis are not a harmless or normal thing.

Or maybe you think that Father Ted, Louis de Funès and about 80% of European comedians who have done a Nazi joke at some point are all part of "normalising" Nazis.
 

snausages

Member
Feb 12, 2018
10,436
Posting Pepe doesn't mean you are a Nazi. In fact, the vast majority of assholes will do it because they know people on the left will go into overdrive insistence the mere act of tweeting or retweeting Pepe is how low the bar is to be called a Nazi. It might make you an asshole, but it doesn't always go hand in hand with making you a literal Nazi.
Yeah my work's slack channel has a custom pepe emoji. Installed from back when pepe was just 'feels bad man' frog and used to express sadness or whatever. Pre-2016 election

Should I infer from this I'm working with a company of Nazis? Shit.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,367
But that's precisely how the alt-right is currently propagating their noxious views. They trade in absurdities, painting it as ironic trolling, leaving many to just dismiss those antics as the shenanigans of pranksters who aren't to be taken seriously. Consequently, while we continue to hand wave their "jokes," those views settle into the fabric of public discourse and become normalized.
Shock or absurdist humor isn't a new thing.

If what you say is even true, how exactly is it criminal? Should people be prosecuted for different viewpoints? I'm not talking about hate crimes here but what you're talking about is shutting down discussion entirely. Jokes about the abhorrent have existed since the dawn of time, nazis are the most abhorrent thing in modern times, so they are quite often one of the things joked about.
 

Deleted member 888

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But that's precisely how the alt-right is currently propagating their noxious views. They trade in absurdities, painting it as ironic trolling, leaving many to just dismiss those antics as the shenanigans of pranksters who aren't to be taken seriously. Consequently, while we continue to hand wave their "jokes," those views settle into the fabric of public discourse and become normalized.

Yes, but the underlying point many of us are making is you have to correctly differentiate the alt-right, from someone who is simply an asshole. Or there has to be a genuine attempt to do that, not just a laziness that blanket refers to anyone in society who is a shitebag as alt-right.

It doesn't help because that is what is being used against the left as a victim complex from the other side. They are managing to propagate the view that the left is just calling everyone and anyone a Nazi, and a lot of the youth especially are listening to/testing that out. Testing it out by doing what I said above, going around latching onto the "most offensive" things that cause anger, such as Pepe and the Kekistani flag.

Tell a dumb angry teen they can't post Pepe or it means they are a Nazi, and you'll get a wave of them doing that. It's not very smart, but it keeps happening. If you're going to call them out for it, it's best to try and get across that it's not being provocative to any real important or serious goal, and ultimately, often just makes them come across like an asshole. Call them a Nazi without evidence, and you prove the victim complex hypothesis they often set out to "prove".
 

HierArch

Banned
Dec 17, 2017
482
Consequently, while we continue to hand wave their "jokes," those views settle into the fabric of public discourse and become normalized.

Hand-waving views will always be a better option than criminalizing certain kinds of speech. What type of platform would Count Dacula have if he was never charged? Thanks to these wonderful speech laws, he now has more notoriety and an even bigger voice to spread his "controversial" views/speech.
 

Irminsul

Member
Oct 25, 2017
3,058
But that's precisely how the alt-right is currently propagating their noxious views. They trade in absurdities, painting it as ironic trolling, leaving many to just dismiss those antics as the shenanigans of pranksters who aren't to be taken seriously. Consequently, while we continue to hand wave their "jokes," those views settle into the fabric of public discourse and become normalized.
I'm sorry, but I'm failing to see how this process is supposed to work. What views are you talking about? Knowledge on Nazis and what they did should be rather widespread. Also, how does knowing sentences like "Gas the Jews!" or "Sieg heil!" make someone think they're a positive message? And that pug video isn't doing that, in fact, if it were, the joke wouldn't work at all.

Besides, the notion that Nazi jokes are predominantly uttered by alt-right people is... what? I don't even know what to say to this. That's probably one of the most popular type of joke.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
I suppose the writers & actors of father ted should be fined for "grossly offensive language" too.




I fundamentally disagree with this. since WW2 the Nazis have been ridiculed and made fun of and used for humor. if anything keeping these in the public sphere constantly remind people of the nazis. if you decide to never talk about their atrocities then you end up with holocaust denial. its important to be able to talk about these topics and i disagree that meerly using these phrases normalizes them. its all in the context.

Its important to call out support for and actual Nazism and fascism when we see it. This video is neither.


Pretending there are parallels between this and actually well constructed satire is a pretty big stretch. Perhaps if there was anything more going on here than "cute puppy do not cute thing and you laugh though because puppy cute," nobody would have had the same reaction whatsoever. However, I find the line of reasoning a bit disingenuous.

A character on a show is, in fact, a character. It is not a representation of one's self as presented within a YouTube persona. There is a difference when someone is essentially playing themselves and saying the words "gas the Jews," particularly when the YouTube platform is deliberately intended to ingratiate the viewer with the person presenting the material. You're supposed to like them, at least in theory. Going beyond that, you have to be clever enough to pull it off. Shock humor can work, but it helps to be actually funny if you want people to understand what you're going for.

I guess the thing people seem to be unclear on is what is personal and private space. Believe it or not, the entertainers you refer to in your concerns for the history of comedy have in fact considered the repercussions of their actions when framing their material, though certainly some more carefully than others. Their job is to present material they know will be consumed en masse and they have considered this. This is not always true of people putting material on YouTube, but should it be? This seems to be some of the split here, although it feels as though some people are arguing on both sides of this.

Was this deliberate biting satire aimed at something (what precisely?) intended for public consumption or was it only a joke for his girlfriend that was private and personal and should not be viewed in this light even though it was on YouTube? I'm not sure how it can be both, or how someone can be both concerned for the privacy of private citizens to get away with some harmless private jokes and also the entire future of uncensored comedy as an entertainment medium as we know it. They're two really different, separate things. Either he is to be taken in the context of professional comedians, with his work viewed with that much weight, or it was a small harmless one off thing that shouldn't be assigned too much meaning or value and will have minimal impact on the professional arena where concerns for marketability and broadcasting standards already often apply strenuous barriers to whatever uncensored paradise people imagine.
 

Deleted member 888

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In regards to the actual law one thing that both Markus Meechan and a lot of his followers haven't fully gotten yet is this

The relevant part reads as follows:

127 Improper use of public electronic communications network
(1) A person is guilty of an offence if he—

(a) sends by means of a public electronic communications network a message or other matter that is grossly offensive or of an indecent, obscene or menacing character;

One or two points need to be noted.

First of all, the crime is only committed when someone sends a "grossly offensive" message or other matter "by means of a public electronic communications network." Being grossly offensive is not a crime if done privately, nor, indeed if it is done on a stage.

http://barristerblogger.com/2018/03...-the-bad-law-used-to-prosecute-count-dankula/

If that barrister is correct and understands things better than us, stand-up comedy and things like film and TV would not be gone after via the police's current favourite "grossly offensive" charge. It has to be via the means of a public electronic communication network. Which you'd primarily think to be Twitter, FB and something like Instagram. But YouTube is obviously included too, even although it's not primarily communication, but video and... acting?

I guess someone could try and argue YouTube is the "TV" of the internet. All these concerns are why as that blog argues in other ways this law is being hamfisted onto "tackling the internet" by the UK police.
 

Krauser Kat

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,720
Charlottesville view had people like that fucker audioboxer pointed too. When enough asshole kids get together because its ironic and funny it also gives power to the actually people who truly believe in nazism. Those kids got heather heyer killed because without them fluffing up the actual number of nazis they would be less brave. A lot like what happened right after charlottesville the boston rally was dwarfed by counter protesters.

"Are they actually bigots?" Yiannopoulos asked rhetorically. "No more than death metal devotees in the 1980s were actually satanists. For them, it's simply a means to fluster their grandparents."

What Yiannopoulos left out, according to Marwick, is that these spaces increasingly became attractive to sincere white supremacists. They offered them venues for recruitment, and new methods for popularising their ideas.

In other words, troll culture became a way for fascism to hide in plain sight."

This why we cant try and differentiate between fascists and ironic shit stains. they all need to protested out, shunned and ruined

"It also allows individuals to push boundaries in public, and to back away when they meet resistance. When Richard Spencer led a fascist salute to Donald Trump at his National Policy Insitute conference in the wake of Trump's win, he said it was done in "a spirit of irony and exuberance".

When count dankula teaches a dog to salute to hitler and bark happily at gas the jews. Its encouraging more shit like spencer being able to hide in public.

Pizza Gate should have been absurd enough that no one believed yet we had a fucker roll up into a pizza hut and shoot up the place.

"A lot of the people propagating the Pizzagate conspiracy were doing it winkingly. But in the moment that somebody walked into that shop with a gun, then that playful buzzing participation around that conspiracy turned into real consequences," Milner says.

More generally, every "ironic" repetition of far-right ideals contributes to a climate in which racism, misogyny, or Islamophobia is normalised.

"Every time you see a viral video of somebody shouting down a person of Muslim descent in a supermarket line, what you're seeing are the effects of an environment where it's increasingly normal, increasingly accepted and expected to speak in this register, whether or not that started out as a joke," Milner says.
 

Deleted member 888

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This why we cant try and differentiate between fascists and ironic shit stains. they all need to protested out, shunned and ruined.

I attempt to, but even if yourself and others don't want to (or claim you can't), the law, meaning a courtroom, should most certainly be capable of doing that.

Remember this case isn't just about a protest and attacking someone on social media who might be deserving of some criticism, but the UK Government, as in the state, arresting and sentencing.

I urge yourself and others to read that barristerblog above for a reasonable take on the law used in this court case.
 

RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,734
Posting Pepe doesn't mean you are a Nazi. In fact, the vast majority of assholes will do it because they know people on the left will go into overdrive insistence the mere act of tweeting or retweeting Pepe is how low the bar is to be called a Nazi. It might make you an asshole, but it doesn't always go hand in hand with making you a literal Nazi.
Nazi sympathizers and enablers are scum too, no reasonable person is going to quibble over the difference between 1 week old stinking garbage and 2 week old garbage.

We don't get overtaken by nazis overnight, it's a process where it's a bit further every day because some people are fine normalizing and enabling it.
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,367
Nazi sympathizers and enablers are scum too, no reasonable person is going to quibble over the difference between 1 week old stinking garbage and 2 week old garbage.

We don't get overtaken by nazis overnight, it's a process where it's a bit further every day because some people are fine normalizing and enabling it.
Most people don't get involved in arguments on the internet over the nuance of it. Most people simply don't understand it, that doesn't mean they're unreasonable.

The majority of people have NFI who or what pepe the frog stands for, if they've even seen it enough to take notice. You won't get taken over by nazis, period. They are a relatively small sub-section of society. Racists absolutely, nazis no. Outside of the young disenfranchised white male, there isn't much of a target audience for the alt-right. The polarization and increased separation between the left and right is a larger problem, alt-righters are a symptom, not the cause.
 

Deleted member 888

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Nazi sympathizers and enablers are scum too, no reasonable person is going to quibble over the difference between 1 week old stinking garbage and 2 week old garbage.

We don't get overtaken by nazis overnight, it's a process where it's a bit further every day because some people are fine normalizing and enabling it.

You must have skipped over my post then. I wasn't talking about Nazi sympathizers as the context for what you quoted. I was attempting to differentiate assholes from legitimate threats to safety.

Or, you may need to explain to me what your definition of "Nazi sympathizer" is? To me, it is someone that shows favour of, acceptance or respect towards the Nazi's.

Idiots trying to wind up the left by being offensive aren't all going to be in favour of, accept or respect the Nazi's. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Some are dumb teens, unless you want to tell me you legitimately think this 17 year old is a Nazi sympathizer?



She almost goes on to self-diagnose as the edgy teen purposely trying to revolt. The coin almost drops in how stupid she is being. A case for a psychologists chair and some help if she doesn't grow out of it, but probably not cause for concern right off the bat she's a Nazi apologist.
 
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Branu

Banned
Feb 7, 2018
1,029
Yeah my work's slack channel has a custom pepe emoji. Installed from back when pepe was just 'feels bad man' frog and used to express sadness or whatever. Pre-2016 election

Should I infer from this I'm working with a company of Nazis? Shit.

Considering it's now the official mascot of the alt-right, perhaps it should be removed?
 
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RedMercury

Blue Venus
Member
Dec 24, 2017
17,734
Most people don't get involved in arguments on the internet over the nuance of it. Most people simply don't understand it, that doesn't mean they're unreasonable.

The majority of people have NFI who or what pepe the frog stands for, if they've even seen it enough to take notice. You won't get taken over by nazis, period. They are a relatively small sub-section of society. Racists absolutely, nazis no. Outside of the young disenfranchised white male, there isn't much of a target audience for the alt-right. The polarization and increased separation between the left and right is a larger problem, alt-righters are a symptom, not the cause.
People are responsible for knowing the meaning behind what they are saying and sharing, there are no excuses. These are people with the internet, with the answer to nearly any question they could ask at their fingertips a couple clicks away. "They didn't inform themselves" isn't any consolation to the victims of racism and hatred, the people who are actually deserving of attention and sympathy, not alt-right cretins.

You say we won't get taken over by nazis, why are you so sure? Look at what is happening in our country now where white supremacy is on the rise and we have am openly racist and bigoted president with no respect for rule of law. Black people are being beat and executed in the streets by our hyper-militant police forces.

As far as young white men being the primary targets of alt-right ideology, that's only partially true, and that is no small subset of society. Steve Bannon is not a young white man, neither is Jordan Peterson, neither is Alex Jones. There are plenty of the older demographic represented, it is not all young men. And it is primarily men, but there are women too like Lauren Southern and Tomi Lahren speaking to other women.

Idiots trying to wind up the left by being offensive aren't all going to be in favour of, accept or respect the Nazi's. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. Some are dumb teens, unless you want to tell me you legitimately think this 17 year old is a Nazi sympathizer?
Yep, I'll call her that. She has the kekistan flag, she has pepe, she has the 4chan logo, this is not someone who is unaware of the meaning behind that stuff. She absolutely knows what it represents and chooses to display it anyways. Go on the /pol/ board right now and tell me what you see and anyone associating with that has plausible deniability.
 

dlauv

Prophet of Truth - One Winged Slayer
Member
Oct 27, 2017
11,515
This whole idea that it was some private joke shared amongst friends and oh no they're policing our rights to just tell private jokes is absurd. It's a youtube video intended for public consumption. If he just intended it for his girlfriend, it would have been a video he sent directly to his girlfriend. There's a huge difference and pretending that there isn't is naive in the extreme.

I never said that. He addresses the audience and refers to his girlfriend in the third person. It's a prank video, meant to capitalize on what he feels is an achievement in humor. There's really nothing absurd about it except the nazi dog, which is where the humor is derived - that, and the imagined dismay of his girlfriend.

I didn't find the video particularly funny, but I don't see what point you're making. Like, are you really excusing the state for trying to ruin his life over a bad joke? Or are you just attempting to debate semantics?
 

dmoe

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
2,290
I don't think this is that horrible, the case is quite ridiculous. I dislike this Dankula dude from the little that I know of him outside the particular video, but I dislike the sentencing even more.
It took 29 posts for someone to realize that this is a ridiculous case. Crazy.
 

kiguel182

Member
Oct 31, 2017
9,473
The fact that someone uses "gass the Jews" as some sort of joke is incredibly depressing in and out of itself.

Add to that people donating money to protect him and man, the westen world is a mess right now.

Maybe just don't make light of the holocaust or any human tragedy. Is that so hard to ask?
 

prophetvx

Member
Nov 28, 2017
5,367
People are responsible for knowing the meaning behind what they are saying and sharing, there are no excuses. These are people with the internet, with the answer to nearly any question they could ask at their fingertips a couple clicks away. "They didn't inform themselves" isn't any consolation to the victims of racism and hatred, the people who are actually deserving of attention and sympathy, not alt-right cretins.

You say we won't get taken over by nazis, why are you so sure? Look at what is happening in our country now where white supremacy is on the rise and we have am openly racist and bigoted president with no respect for rule of law. Black people are being beat and executed in the streets by our hyper-militant police forces.

As far as young white men being the primary targets of alt-right ideology, that's only partially true, and that is no small subset of society. Steve Bannon is not a young white man, neither is Jordan Peterson, neither is Alex Jones. There are plenty of the older demographic represented, it is not all young men. And it is primarily men, but there are women too like Lauren Southern and Tomi Lahren speaking to other women.
There is a big leap from being a racist to being a nazi.

Alt-righters are not mainstream, regardless of what you may or may not see on the news. Authoritarian leaders like Trump (and Bannon) are a huge problem, but again, it's a huge leap to going to genocide. Literally not a single person you listed is a "nazi" (I guess you could argue Bannon or Jones), they are without question abhorrent humans, absolutely.

I don't know where you could point to someone like Peterson being even remotely close to a nazi, he may certainly be popular with alt-righters but that's because he aligns with the anti-SJW crowd which also appears to be a fundamental part of their mantra.

I don't think there are too many people sharing pepe without knowing the meaning, my point is society as a larger whole are largely apathetic to a meme. Most people don't spend hours upon hours researching everything that enters their life in passing.

Racism is on the rise because you have a leader that is openly racist but I think there are far more people that are rejecting that sort of leadership than embracing it, the poll numbers and news cycles certainly suggest it.