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SartrG

Attempted to circumvent ban with alt account
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
391
I'm not going to defend them nor accuse them because I don't know the situation nor I have enough information.
Perhaps they just uploaded the item and their system automatically calculated the displayed amount, or maybe they have to pay the respective taxes and so they decided to not donate the full amount like Blizzard or Microsoft are doing. I'm sure they will come out with an announcement that they're fixing the issue soon enough.

I mean, if what you want is to be offended and angry, why don't you take offense on the fact that Blizzard is only donating what they earn from the sales of the skin and not double what they earn or something like that. Or how a lot of people are "buying" the skin rather than donating for cancer research.

I seriously dislike how people are so quick to jump out to conclusions in order to cause outrage. You could say it's pretty disgusting.
 

resident_UA

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,400
I understand reading the thread is hard but it's tiring readings takes that are already debunked over and over This is not just vat, and is active in countries that it wouldn't even apply to
Yes, but it's in currency those countries don't use. You are picking and choosing facts as if you have some sort of agenda. There's clearly something off here, but it's unclear what.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,319
Good on MS. Scummy Sony as per usual when it comes to everything outside of their fp games.

[one of big three gaming companies] is the MOTHER FUCKING DEVIL and here's [kinda maybe sorta] why i think so [that's definitely not as accurate as the OP states] so lets FUCKING OUTRAGE! [without ever updating the OP with the more accurate information i clearly overlooked before pressing submit]
 

Sledge

Member
Oct 28, 2017
809
I imagine this will get fixed if people keep talking.

Media will latch onto this and it'll force Sony's hand pretty quickly.
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,638
I"M GONNA ASK FOR A REFUND THIS LITTERALLY MAKES ME SICK... LIKE MY STOMACHE HURTS JUST THINKING ABOUT IT

They stop donating to all charities as they all do this. Ever buy a reusable bag for a charity for $2? I absolutely guarantee less that $1.50 is going to the charity the rest it for the company selling the bag for making the bag. I have enough experience to know its common practice.
 

Skronk

Member
Nov 22, 2017
1,231
Yeah, it's not VAT because the standard rate in the UK is 20%. It could be some kind of UK regulation regarding charitable donations or something like that maybe?
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,152
I think people have little patience on making moral judgements. People want to fill in all the gaps with their cynicism and biases and feel like they are part of a righteous cause.

I too feel like an old fart. If it's true that Sony is skimming a profit off the top of this.

But people are really dumb if they don't realize that all charities and non profits have an operating cost that has to be accounted for one way or another. Nothing is free.
Sony is neither the non profit or the charity. Not sure what you're trying to say with that. Everyone else is donating the full amount. Sony is not. Full stop. Nothing else matters they are being called out because their stance is DIRECTLY comparable with the other two companies.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
is the mod staff now giving out prizes for the 100th bad take on "outrage culture" in every thread or something?
 

MP!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,198
Las Vegas
They stop donating to all charities as they all do this. Ever buy a reusable bag for a charity for $2? I absolutely guarantee less that $1.50 is going to the charity the rest it for the company selling the bag for making the bag. I have enough experience to know its common practice.
It was a joke... lol... and no I don't donate to charities that take cuts.

you cant even get refunds from sony...
 

resident_UA

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
1,400
Sony is neither the non profit or the charity. Not sure what you're trying to say with that. Everyone else is donating the full amount. Sony is not. Full stop. Nothing else matters they are being called out because their stance is DIRECTLY comparable with the other two companies.
Why do you keep doing this? You haven't even replied to my post and you are making more outrageous statements. So who pays taxes in Microsoft's case? I mean potentially you could be right, but it's really unclear what is happening?
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Sony is neither the non profit or the charity. Not sure what you're trying to say with that. Everyone else is donating the full amount. Sony is not. Full stop. Nothing else matters they are being called out because their stance is DIRECTLY comparable with the other two companies.
I'm referring to people using the Sony Australia spreadsheets as some sort of definitive proof of what's going on in this situation.

What new info do you have that we are missing?cuz I'm not seeing it.
 

Deleted member 224

Oct 25, 2017
5,629
Haha oops. Kinda sounds like they were just hoping no one would notice. Hopefully they change it
 

Mona-chan

Member
Oct 31, 2017
583
Looking at this, looks like the issue is related with VAT.

Sony and Blizzard better get this sorted...
 

Kyuuji

The Favonius Fox
Member
Nov 8, 2017
32,155
Some people in this thread seem abhorred that charities pay people that work for them salaries and have to cover costs in other areas. Truly a bizarre viewpoint.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
It's hard to know who is serious on this topic. Lol

All charities take a cut though to cover costs.
Do people here seriously think 100 percent of their charity dollar goes straight to charity use? Do people not understand operating costs? I'm starting to wonder myself.

Also if it's really the case that Sony is just choosing not to eat the costs of the VAT I really don't see that as some terrible egregious act of greed.
 

Armadilo

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,877
So Sony isn't actually keeping that 22% for themselves, instead it's for the taxes that these countries have.

So how is this awful, companies do this all the time.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,152
So Sony isn't actually keeping that 22% for themselves, instead it's for the taxes that these countries have.

So how is this awful, companies do this all the time.
Literally the other two companies involved are not doing it. Not every country has these taxes.

We can, in fact, definitively say that NO other company is doing this. Yet here we are with a thread full of mental gymnastics to defend our favorite console company.
 

Deleted member 1238

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
3,070
Literally the other two companies involved are not doing it. Not every country has these taxes.

We can, in fact, definitively say that NO other company is doing this. Yet here we are with a thread full of mental gymnastics to defend our favorite console company.
it's pretty sad honestly. people go to such great lengths to defend their favorite corporations and I don't even think they realize it.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Literally the other two companies involved are not doing it. Not every country has these taxes.

We can, in fact, definitively say that NO other company is doing this. Yet here we are with a thread full of mental gymnastics to defend our favorite console company.
No other company? Ever? Receipts? Just because one company is willing to eat the costs themselves with their endless pile of cash, doesn't mean every other is obligated to.

You also still don't acknowledge anywhere in here that Sony isn't profiting. You understand collecting tax revenue does not equal profit right? Which is what everyone was outraged about in the first place.

Did people forget what they were actually upset about?
 
Oct 25, 2017
3,736
Literally the other two companies involved are not doing it. Not every country has these taxes.

We can, in fact, definitively say that NO other company is doing this. Yet here we are with a thread full of mental gymnastics to defend our favorite console company.

The other companies aren't paying taxes even though it states that the VAT is included?
 

Rowsdower

Prophet of Truth - The Wise Ones
Avenger
Oct 27, 2017
16,571
Canada
Literally the other two companies involved are not doing it. Not every country has these taxes.

We can, in fact, definitively say that NO other company is doing this. Yet here we are with a thread full of mental gymnastics to defend our favorite console company.

Wait, what? If I buy the skin on the Xbox Marketplace, I get taxed between three-four bucks (give or take). Does that not go to Microsoft?

The issue here is that if I buy the skin on PSN, I don't get taxed at all.

Maybe the tax/VAT amount is inside the purchase on PSN?
 

Briarios

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
1,238
Literally the other two companies involved are not doing it. Not every country has these taxes.

We can, in fact, definitively say that NO other company is doing this. Yet here we are with a thread full of mental gymnastics to defend our favorite console company.

We cannot definitively say anything unless you can see the actual ledgers.

People just making crap up as facts from a couple works in a disclaimer ... We literally have no facts except prices.
 

famikon

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
4,604
ベラルーシ
We should praise MS and Blizzard for doing this

DG8GtQUXcAEVJ_Y.png
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,721
Has anyone from a US state that usually charges for PSN purchases attempted a purchase to see if the price is pre-tax or includes tax?
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
Has anyone from a US state that usually charges for PSN purchases attempted a purchase to see if the price is pre-tax or includes tax?
I just tried adding a bunch of different DLC to my cart, including this skin, and none of it is taxed. Full games are always taxed in my state on PSN, though.
 

Lulu

Saw the truth behind the copied door
Banned
Oct 25, 2017
26,680
User warned: Console warring
This thread is sad for two reasons.

1) for the way Sony has handled the situation.

2) the usual suspects who never miss a beat/moment to shit on Sony. Why does everything have to end up being a console war for some of you guys?
Yea not the usual suspects doing free Sony PR, despite something clearly sus going on and should be called out on.

*Thinking emoji*
 

data

Member
Oct 25, 2017
4,721
I just tried adding a bunch of different DLC to my cart, including this skin, and none of it is taxed. Full games are always taxed in my state on PSN, though.
If DLC isn't taxed, that would mean that this item shouldn't be taxed too. Unless they tax dlc in different states
 

Thadeus

Member
Oct 27, 2017
383
Agree that it's likely VAT.

Based on what I understand on VAT from my high school days many years ago, so what I said below may be incorrect. VAT is a minefield and needs to be looked at in detail (also I can only speak for the UK), although you found something, do not assume this is correct as you will need to look around it to ensure there are no exclusions, exemption or any other quirks that will affect the outcome. =p

In the UK as Sony ticks all boxes in regards to principles and underlying law on the scope of VAT, they must charge VAT on their supplies (won't go into detail about this). However you will need to look at the transactions separately to decide whether a transaction is within the scope of UK VAT. When a transaction does not meet all of the conditions then that transaction is outside the scope of VAT. In Sony's case with the skin, we need to determine whether it's a supply for VAT purposes and noting consideration is received.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-supply-and-consideration/vatsc03200

As consideration is received, you will need to determine whether the transactions falls outside the VAT rules. Based on 1.

"A transaction will not be a supply for VAT purposes if there is no consideration for the supply either monetary or non monetary (unless there is a deemed supply as described in VATSC03400). This includes situations where a payment is received but it is not consideration for the purposes of VAT Act 1994, Section 5(2) for example because there is no direct link between the payment and what is supplied (see VATSC50000 for examples of such payments)."

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-supply-and-consideration/vatsc03500

Going on from the above, the next step is to determine if the payment received is deemed as consideration or an donation. So based on the link on the manual below - as the donor receives something in return for the payment (i.e. skin), then the donation is not freely given and not unconditional (payment made in return for promised goods) therefore the transaction is liable to VAT.

https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/vat-supply-and-consideration/vatsc50400

In regards to the Charity, they may be able to claim Gift Aid on the transaction, i.e. claim back 25p from £1 (20%). But as noted, VAT is a minefield and this seems like an agent relationship that's in play so I cannot say for certain that this applies so not going to look into this any further.

https://www.gov.uk/claim-gift-aid/what-you-can-claim-it-on

In the case where you want the charity to fully benefit from a donation (ignoring all that crap above), it would be better just to make it directly to the charity yourselves and they can claim back 20% on whether amount you donated (because you have likely paid tax on this donation from your salaries, etc.)

In respect of Microsoft, it could be a number of things:

- The wording is kind of mis-leading without confirmation, it is hard to tell what their procedures or policies are. Especially the case (same with Sony) whether there may be other parties in play - card processing fees from other companies, PayPal, etc etc.
- They may be footing the 20%, therefore I see it as them making a donation themselves therefore they will make a claim for this donation on their corporate tax return
- Worst case they are doing it wrong by not collecting the right VAT. Mistakes are quite common as VAT is not an easy tax especially when it involve international aspects. For example, a few years ago, I saw GAME charge VAT on a book I purchased off them and some places online which ship abroad charge VAT on goods shipped outside of the UK and EU.
 
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Goronmon

Member
Nov 9, 2017
639
"[one of big three gaming companies] is the MOTHER FUCKING DEVIL and here's [kinda maybe sorta] why i think so [that's definitely not as accurate as the OP states] so lets FUCKING OUTRAGE! [without ever updating the OP with the more accurate information i clearly overlooked before pressing submit no matter how large the thread becomes]"

Yup, this thread is pretty standard "gaming community" quality these days.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
If DLC isn't taxed, that would mean that this item shouldn't be taxed too. Unless they tax dlc in different states
Well now I don't know what to think because normally all my games purchased on PSN are taxed but I just tried adding some to my cart and they're not showing as taxed at this moment. So I don't know what's going on.
 

RevenantAxe

Banned
Apr 16, 2018
1,274
So curious to see how many will call Sony out on this right now .

If this really true then it's really shitty imo
 
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