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nib95

Contains No Misinformation on Philly Cheesesteaks
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
18,498
And I never said Sony was pocketing the money. Again, I don't think Sony is being greedy here and attempting to get rich off of the tiny bits of overhead from charity donations. I just think they don't care enough to waive the fee or change their platform in a way that they are able to. And maybe they thought no one would notice.

Let's say PSN is not technically set up in a way that allows them to automatically waive the fee on a purchase for charity purposes. That's fine. All they have to do in this case is just say "At the end of this campaign, we'll also donate an amount of money equal to the fees collected on these PSN purchases (the amount of money that didn't go directly to Blizzard)"

Problem solved, no drama necessary.

I don't think they're charging their store fee, because their store cut is 30% (that's the percentage cut Microsoft and Sony take from everything sold on their online stores), whilst the percentage in question is 22%, which is why many assume it is instead the VAT (20%) plus transaction fees (2-3%). If it was the store cut, the percentage would be higher. I assume for different US states different taxes and fees apply, hence the wording on the US side of things, but I don't know how US charity and tax law works.

I think Microsoft and Blizzard are probably forking the costs of the taxes and fees themselves, whilst Sony is not, or they have a registered charity outlet as a side that they can parse things through to cover those things, whilst Sony does not. Either way, not a good look for Sony, especially when your major competitor is doing it. I won't speak of Blizzard because it goes without saying that Blizzard would cover the cost of taxes and fees given it is their charitable initiative in the first place, eg if you're already giving away the proceeds of this purchasable item, you might as well go the whole way.
 

Ondor

Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,250
That's odd. Do we know Nintendo's stance yet? That may shed some light on the situation.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,140
Ill let you do the research. It wasnt that deep. Again its public knowledge and lack of transparency when questioned about certain issues on their part. I was responding to poster and irregardless of those two institutions againnnnnn the point was just dont give money without knowing where it goes because all charities dont function the same.

Thanks
I mean... They did, you were saying some incorrect shit and got called on it. Trying to pass it off as some irrelevant general statement and doubling down just comes across as ridiculous. This is a good charity nothing else to say about that.
 

ZeoVGM

Member
Oct 25, 2017
76,103
Providence, RI
"Disgusting" "Yikes" "Gross"

I mean, it's very shitty, and Sony should be embarrassed to be seen in this light (and I can't believe they haven't taken action yet)...but can we please find some different reaction words? It's a borderline parody at this point.

They're words with meanings. What a silly thing to let bother you.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
What "response" is there to wait for? They have no incentive to respond to any of this based on a 10-page forum thread on a relatively small gaming forum on the internet.

Someone in the press needs to be asking them about this, but we have no idea if or when that will happen, so we don't know whether to expect a response or not. It is not in Sony's best interest to scour ResetEra for negative information about them and make a statement about every single thing.
Trust me, if you get enough people pestering them on social media that is visible to the public eye, it will force their hand to answer. Hashtags and @s ok twitter can go along way towards visibility
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,140
Trust me, if you get enough people pestering them on social media that is visible to the public eye, it will force their hand to answer. Hashtags and @s ok twitter can go along way towards visibility
Which makes the outrage warranted, that's the whole point. Being told not to complain because they didn't respond to something that they won't respond to if there is no outcry is such a ridiculous standard
 

Icarus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
632
Why not just let them officially reply first before grabbing all the pitchforks and torches?

I'll happily join you guys on your crusade but for now just have some patience.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
I don't think they're charging their store fee, because their store cut is 30% (that's the percentage cut Microsoft and Sony take from everything sold on their online stores), whilst the percentage in question is 22%, which is why many assume it is instead the VAT (20%) plus transaction fees (2-3%).
Again, I'm only personally talking about the US, Canada, and Australia, not countries where VAT applies.
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
Which makes the outrage warranted, that's the whole point. Being told not to complain because they didn't respond to something that they won't respond to if there is no outcry is such a ridiculous standard
I'm saying it's pointless to make specific judgements about what's going on until there is actual information beyond people who don't understand business spread sheets and a random tweet.

Pestering them does not equate to needing to automatically make a value judgement about what IS or ISNT going on.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
Why not just let them officially reply first before grabbing all the pitchforks and torches?

I'll happily join you guys on your crusade but for now just have some patience.
In order for them to reply someone has to create enough noise for a reply to be warranted. That's what this thread aims to do.
 

LABARONX

Member
Mar 29, 2018
32
Again, I'm only personally talking about the US, Canada, and Australia, not countries where VAT applies.

But the wording on the us store is extremely vague and not much different from what's written by xbox and Blizzard all general statements written by likely 3 different people. I get the VATs in EU companies but there is no evidence for or against sony taking money off every purchase on the us outside of everyone's assumptions
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
When Overwatch is coming to the Switch of course.

Anyway, not surprised to see people defend Sony doing this shit.
Ah yes "defending" "this shit" that literally has no clarified basis of what is actually happening. Maybe some people are just patient enough to reserve judgement about what's happening until there are ACTUAL answers.
 

LightEntite

Banned
Oct 26, 2017
3,079
"[one of big three gaming companies] is the MOTHER FUCKING DEVIL and here's [kinda maybe sorta] why i think so [that's definitely not as accurate as the OP states] so lets FUCKING OUTRAGE! [without ever updating the OP with the more accurate information i clearly overlooked before pressing submit no matter how large the thread becomes]"

ahh yes i love this one
 

Kenjovani

Banned
Oct 28, 2017
1,158
I mean... They did, you were saying some incorrect shit and got called on it. Trying to pass it off as some irrelevant general statement and doubling down just comes across as ridiculous. This is a good charity nothing else to say about that.

No one said the charity wasnt good. You just need to be aware how money is spent. Wth you want me to tell you? Red Cross was questioned on how money was spent to rebuild after earthquake and why only 6 houses were built at a certain point in time. Like are you serious? Every little bs becomes an issue on here. Here you go since your so interested. Now analyze it and come with a response that suits your views....lack of transparency raises red alarms in any charity.

https://www.npr.org/2016/06/16/4820...fundamental-concerns-about-red-cross-finances

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/haitians-urging-people-not-give-money-american-red-cross-how-to-help-hurricane-matthew-aid-cholera-a7352681.html?amp

Tons of articles and hearings on this issue met with silence.

Btw i wont get into this no more as my point in all this wasnt to put any charity in a negative light but just make ppl aware of how certain institutions may not be as transparent on how thy use doners money and not all use it for the charity cause.

The Sony situation i have no stance on until they release info and when i read the the op i said to myself "oh thts common that not all 100% goes into the initiative" for whatever reason it may be.
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
But the wording on the us store is extremely vague and not much different from what's written by xbox and Blizzard all general statements written by likely 3 different people. I get the VATs in EU companies but there is no evidence for or against sony taking money off every purchase on the us outside of everyone's assumptions
It is typical practice for the store descriptions to be provided by the developer / publisher, not by Sony or Microsoft.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,302
"[one of big three gaming companies] is the MOTHER FUCKING DEVIL and here's [kinda maybe sorta] why i think so [that's definitely not as accurate as the OP states] so lets FUCKING OUTRAGE! [without ever updating the OP with the more accurate information i clearly overlooked before pressing submit no matter how large the thread becomes]"

ahh yes i love this one

Lol
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
"[one of big three gaming companies] is the MOTHER FUCKING DEVIL and here's [kinda maybe sorta] why i think so [that's definitely not as accurate as the OP states] so lets FUCKING OUTRAGE! [without ever updating the OP with the more accurate information i clearly overlooked before pressing submit no matter how large the thread becomes]"

ahh yes i love this one
People would rather embarrass themselves for nothing other than feeling a sense of righteousness. For their sake I hope they didn't make their conclusions too quickly. For the greater goods sake, I hope they are wrong.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,302
When Overwatch is coming to the Switch of course.

Anyway, not surprised to see people defend Sony doing this shit.

"[one of big three gaming companies] is the MOTHER FUCKING DEVIL and here's [kinda maybe sorta] why i think so [that's definitely not as accurate as the OP states] so lets FUCKING OUTRAGE! [without ever updating the OP with the more accurate information i clearly overlooked before pressing submit]
 

Icarus

Member
Oct 26, 2017
632
In order for them to reply someone has to create enough noise for a reply to be warranted. That's what this thread aims to do.
By slandering Sony for something they've neither confirmed or denied yet?

Seems like the wrong way about getting attention. Just tweet or link in gaming press or Blizzard etc. Might be me getting older or something but the sheer speed of people going full hate mode on someone or a company is insane.
 

Deleted member 8408

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
6,648
"[one of big three gaming companies] is the MOTHER FUCKING DEVIL and here's [kinda maybe sorta] why i think so [that's definitely not as accurate as the OP states] so lets FUCKING OUTRAGE! [without ever updating the OP with the more accurate information i clearly overlooked before pressing submit no matter how large the thread becomes]"

ahh yes i love this one

You know what, I don't even think it's the thread title or OP that are the issue in cases like this, it's the responses. Particularly the responses where it's clear the person hasn't read the OP and is responding based on the title alone.

Yes, I read the OP. It clearly says Microsoft doesn't do this. They waived the fee.

It's not about what Microsoft do or don't do my man. Read again.
 

MP!

Member
Oct 30, 2017
5,198
Las Vegas
I"M GONNA ASK FOR A REFUND THIS LITTERALLY MAKES ME SICK... LIKE MY STOMACHE HURTS JUST THINKING ABOUT IT
 

Orb

Banned
Oct 27, 2017
9,465
USA
By slandering Sony for something they've neither confirmed or denied yet?

Seems like the wrong way about getting attention. Just tweet or link in gaming press or Blizzard etc. Might be me getting older or something but the sheer speed of people going full hate mode on someone or a company is insane.
I think Sony will survive this forum thread, you don't have to go to bat for them.
 

M1chl

Banned
Nov 20, 2017
2,054
Czech Republic
Well maybe, I figured it out. I received e-mail from MS that they thank me for paying them, etc.... And that e-mail stated that they "Financial Department" for EU is based in Luxembourg, which as far as I know does not have VAT on anything. I might be wrong, but when I did some of my shittyMathematics™ than when it comes to MS there is no VAT included since they are collecting money in Luxembourg and Sony's price is basically 22% higher well it's quite a bit more, but it starting to make sense to me, if they (Sony) are collecting money on the Czech clay.

Just some observation.
 

Thorrgal

Member
Oct 26, 2017
12,302
Well maybe, I figured it out. I received e-mail from MS that they thank me for paying them, etc.... And that e-mail stated that they "Financial Department" for EU is based in Luxembourg, which as far as I know does not have VAT on anything. I might be wrong, but when I did some of my shittyMathematics™ than when it comes to MS there is no VAT included since they are collecting money in Luxembourg and Sony's price is basically 22% higher well it's quite a bit more, but it starting to make sense to me, if they (Sony) are collecting money on the Czech clay.

Just some observation.

MS finantial deparment is based in Luxembourg?
 

Lucreto

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,632
As I stated earlier in the thread they are not pocketing it. They are not making money just covering their costs like for example server maintenance costs, administration, the related taxes, exchange rates and whatever taxes an international company needs to pay out. Sony is provided a platform for the charity it doesn't mean they are covering the costs by the charity.

It's common practice

I have seen it work in different ways.

1. What Sony is doing. They are covering the costs for the charity and recovering them at a later date.

2. Another method is the charity covers the costs for the platform holder and they recover the costs at a later date.
 

Deleted member 8674

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 26, 2017
5,240
court is in your ball sony

f7b.gif
 

Thac

The Fallen
Nov 1, 2017
387
VAT is a thing - getting upset at Sony for the decisions of individual countries tax laws is ridiculous.
 
Oct 26, 2017
1,267
"[one of big three gaming companies] is the MOTHER FUCKING DEVIL and here's [kinda maybe sorta] why i think so [that's definitely not as accurate as the OP states] so lets FUCKING OUTRAGE! [without ever updating the OP with the more accurate information i clearly overlooked before pressing submit]

Sounds like normal OP here
 

Deleted member 18161

user requested account closure
Banned
Oct 27, 2017
4,805
User warned: Drive-by inflammatory posting.
Good on MS. Scummy Sony as per usual when it comes to everything outside of their fp games.
 

stupei

Member
Oct 26, 2017
2,801
"[one of big three gaming companies] is the MOTHER FUCKING DEVIL and here's [kinda maybe sorta] why i think so [that's definitely not as accurate as the OP states] so lets FUCKING OUTRAGE! [without ever updating the OP with the more accurate information i clearly overlooked before pressing submit no matter how large the thread becomes]"

ahh yes i love this one

What an interesting and totally unbiased read on this thread.
 

TheYanger

Avenger
Oct 25, 2017
10,140
VAT is a thing - getting upset at Sony for the decisions of individual countries tax laws is ridiculous.
I understand reading the thread is hard but it's tiring readings takes that are already debunked over and over This is not just vat, and is active in countries that it wouldn't even apply to
 

TheModestGun

Banned
Dec 5, 2017
3,781
By slandering Sony for something they've neither confirmed or denied yet?

Seems like the wrong way about getting attention. Just tweet or link in gaming press or Blizzard etc. Might be me getting older or something but the sheer speed of people going full hate mode on someone or a company is insane.
I think people have little patience on making moral judgements. People want to fill in all the gaps with their cynicism and biases and feel like they are part of a righteous cause.

I too feel like an old fart. If it's true that Sony is skimming a profit off the top of this.

But people are really dumb if they don't realize that all charities and non profits have an operating cost that has to be accounted for one way or another. Nothing is free.
 
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