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MikeHattsu

Member
Oct 25, 2017
8,916
All over Norwegian news sites right now. Only found 1 English source right now though:
https://www.musicbusinessworldwide....ms-to-bulk-up-kanye-west-and-beyonce-numbers/

In March 2016, the firm claimed that Kanye West's The Life Of Pablo, a six-week exclusive on its platform, had been streamed 250m times in just 10 days.

At the same time, TIDAL claimed that its platform had surpassed 3m subscribers.

These numbers meant that, on average, every single TIDAL subscriber would have had to be playing the Kanye album over eight times a day.

Similar suspicions were triggered by the success of Beyonce's record-breaking Lemonade a couple of months later.

Stats like this led Norwegian newspaper Dagens Næringsliv to investigate in January 2017 – and uncover documents which, it said, suggested that TIDAL had been deliberately inflating its subscriber figures.

Now, DN has run an update – following more than a year of journalistic digging. And it's an absolute jaw-dropper.

Its central accusation: 'Beyoncé's and Kanye West's listener numbers on TIDAL have been manipulated to the tune of several hundred million false plays… which has generated massive royalty payouts at the expense of other artists.'

NTNU's Center for Cyber and Information Security (CCIS) has forensically investigated the data that DN has obtained on TIDAL's plays.

Amongst the CCIS's findings: "We have through advanced statistical analysis determined that there has in fact been a manipulation of the [TIDAL] data at particular times. The manipulation appears targeted towards a very specific set of track IDs, related to two distinct albums."

Its findings suggest that "various methods" were allegedly used to bulk up plays of The Life of Pablo and Lemonade.

"According to the logs, every single user supposedly listened to a large number of tracks at precisely the same second in time."

The consequences of this alleged tampering are seismic.

DN says it has gained access to record company royalty payment reports, which reveal that TIDAL paid Sony in excess of $4 million across April and May of 2016.

Of this, Lemonade – a Billboard 200 No.1 album – accounted for $2.5 million, based on the figures reported by TIDAL.

It's a similar case for The Life of Pablo: according to DN, in February and March 2016, TIDAL paid Universal a total of €3.2 million.

Of this, The Life of Pablo cashed in around €2 million.
 

Xiaomi

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,237
If they really fucked over the other artists to benefit multi-mega-millionaires, I could see the tide going out for good soon.
 

TheFireman

Banned
Dec 22, 2017
3,918
These numbers meant that, on average, every single TIDAL subscriber would have had to be playing the Kanye album over eight times a day.

I mean, what else would the subscribers be using Tidal for? It's just a shittier Spotify with some good exclusive releases.
 

Deleted member 20284

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
2,889
They're reading the data wrong, it is in fact just Kanye repeatedly fulfilling his own wish to watch himself perform.
 

Bond

Member
Oct 27, 2017
1,579
London, UK
Another reason to hate TIDAL. C'mon Jay-Z, what kind of business are you running? this was meant to be a platform for the artists.
 

Xe4

Member
Oct 25, 2017
10,295
In between the times news comes out about TIDAL, I forget it's even a thing. Honestly, it could've shut down a year ago and I wouldn't have known any better.
 

Deleted member 21693

User requested account closure
Banned
Oct 28, 2017
4,139
arts_tidal1.jpg
 

Peru

Member
Oct 26, 2017
6,126
Pretty crazy evidence. Pretty shameless replies from Tidal's lawyers.
 

julia crawford

Took the red AND the blue pills
Member
Oct 27, 2017
35,135
Damn. I have not heard a single good thing about TIDAL since, well, pretty much ever.
 

H-I-M

Banned
Apr 26, 2018
1,330
Isn't Beyoncé notoriously known for stealing credits?
I wouldn't expect any less from her husband.
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
There's this really good article I read last year that exposed a lot of this and I'm pretty sure Apple Music did some of this shady number inflating too

I'll see if I can find it after work
 

signal

Member
Oct 28, 2017
40,183
Bandcamp & Soundcloud forever.

Pretty scummy, though I know a lot of people who like Tidal over Spotify for the sound quality.
 

Kreed

The Negro Historian
Member
Oct 25, 2017
5,102
Amongst the CCIS's findings: "We have through advanced statistical analysis determined that there has in fact been a manipulation of the [TIDAL] data at particular times. The manipulation appears targeted towards a very specific set of track IDs, related to two distinct albums."

The CCIS team usually works on developing digital intelligence methodologies, and is led by Professor Katrin Franke.

Its findings suggest that "various methods" were allegedly used to bulk up plays of The Life of Pablo and Lemonade.

In the case of the former, TIDAL is accused of accessing genuine user accounts to play more than 150m 'duplicates' of TLOP tracks at exactly the same times: 02.00 and 05.00.

"According to the logs, every single user supposedly listened to a large number of tracks at precisely the same second in time," reports DN.

More than 1.3m subscriber accounts were reportedly subject to this alleged 'manipulation'.

With the Beyoncé album, TIDAL is accused of repeating subscribers' own streaming patterns to fatten up the play-count.

"The duplicates are logged at different times, differ from one user to the next, which makes them more difficult to detect," reports DN.

There is some fishy evidence, however.

"The number of minutes elapsing before the track is re-entered in the log varies, but the time interval is always a variant of a figure multiplied by six minutes (6, 12, 18, 24, …). In addition, the tracks are restarted at the same second and millisecond," reports DN.

I guess numbers do lie.
 

Dan Thunder

Member
Nov 2, 2017
14,017
I'm guessing that it's because they want to keep both artists sweet with giving Tidal exclusivity?
 

Jam

Member
Oct 25, 2017
7,050
Isn't Beyoncé notoriously known for stealing credits?
I wouldn't expect any less from her husband.

What? I thought she gave a lot of credits?

Isn't there some joke about how Single Ladies had about ten writers credited. And she gave Animal Collective writing credit because of the similarity between "She too smart to crave material things" and Animal Collective's "I don't mean to seem like I care about material things".
 

Deleted member 38573

User requested account closure
Banned
Jan 17, 2018
3,902
What? I thought she gave a lot of credits?

Isn't there some joke about how Single Ladies had about ten writers credited. And she gave Animal Collective writing credit because of the similarity between "She too smart to crave material things" and Animal Collective's "I don't mean to seem like I care about material things".

All I know is she didn't credit Future with Drunk in Love
 

Staticneuron

Member
Oct 25, 2017
1,187
I mean, what else would the subscribers be using Tidal for? It's just a shittier Spotify with some good exclusive releases.

Exactly. I never bought the album so I just used tidal to stream whenever I felt like it. In addition to this, TLOP was actually changed during the time I listened to it. So it wasn't even the same exact album day of release compared to months afterwards.

I listen to alot of albums I own multiple times, and while on tidal I listened to some artist tracks multiple times. I don't see why this is cause for disbelief here.

"The number of minutes elapsing before the track is re-entered in the log varies, but the time interval is always a variant of a figure multiplied by six minutes (6, 12, 18, 24, …). In addition, the tracks are restarted at the same second and millisecond," reports DN.

NVM then, this is impossible.

How did they get these numbers again?
 

wenis

Member
Oct 25, 2017
16,104
Oh no, Tidal is ruining the sanctity of streaming numbers. I'm sure since they're a runaway success no.... wait.
 

enzo_gt

Member
Oct 25, 2017
6,299
Slow news day? This was a story from a year ago and fairly sure this was debunked already.

Jay even spoke to this directly in the interview he did with Elliot Wilson months ago.

EDIT: welp, didn't read the whole article, looking bad if there's a new motion.
 

BernardoOne

Banned
Oct 25, 2017
10,289
No shit tbh. Anybody who watched their ridiculous reveal already knew this was nothing but something for millionaires to get even richer. They don't give a shit about music or artists.