I laughed out loud at that scene. "GTFO my lawn, Rand!", pretty much ^^
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LttP(In Progress)-The Wheel of Time(Up to and Including Lord of Chaos)
- Thread starter Rand a. Thor
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I laughed out loud at that scene. "GTFO my lawn, Rand!", pretty much ^^
100% loved the books. Are some better than others? Sure. But it all builds to that final book, which honestly I'm not sure Jordan could write in less than 3000 pages himself. It took Sanderson just to squeeze it into something bindable. Ending is superb. If anything it just hurts to see one (minor) plot not wrapped up - but that's only because I read the books over what, 15+ years? So I had time to dwell on the details. All of the major stuff wraps up masterfully.
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The Matt arc is one of my favorites things from any book.
Have read the whole series twice (including when they were originally coming out (started when 4th book was released). The Perrin arc starts strong but his middle is IMO what drags the middle books a little bit. Mostly because of Faile in my opinion. Their relationship was kind of boring.
It all finishes very strong for all the main characters.
Have read the whole series twice (including when they were originally coming out (started when 4th book was released). The Perrin arc starts strong but his middle is IMO what drags the middle books a little bit. Mostly because of Faile in my opinion. Their relationship was kind of boring.
It all finishes very strong for all the main characters.
I was introduced to this series by audio books a few years ago while I was doing boring data entry at work. Since we could have headphones on all day long, it as VERY easy to get involved in this magical word and characters. I was hooked from the beginning, and I have listened to the entire series by audio books. I thoroughly enjoyed the entire series, and I take the good and the bad. You are about at the parts that are VERY slow (the Perrin plot...jeez). It all builds to a glorious climax, especially in the last few books, even with the different author at the helm. I look forward to your continued observations of the series and I hope you enjoy them as much as I did. I plan on getting physical copies of all these books one of these days...
Glad you did this. I was deciding on a high fantasy series to get into; ended up picking Mistborn over Wheels of Time, but I enjoyed your impresssions.
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I created the thread with the mindset that eventually I will covet each book and eventually comment on it as a whole. I haven't covered Crown of Swords yet as I do not own it and eventually will, I rushed my impressions of books 1-4 as I did them all together and will go into detail on Book 6, and finally I will try to get through New Spring, but an all Moraine book might drive me up the wall. We'll see.
New spring is a short story. It was originally published as part of a short story collection.
Great thread, OP, and I've been planning a Wheel of Time thread myself for a while now! I tried to read these books when I was in high school and was obsessed with the idea of an epic fantasy saga that I could just lose myself within. I eventually stopped because Robert Jordan's prose got very dense for me and life became busy, but I started listening to the audiobooks two years ago and am near done with everything. I'm on book 13 now and Michael Kramer and Kate Reading, the couple that do every chapter, are wonderful.
I will say that despite my fondness for the series, however, it definitely has some big flaws. I'm glad that the slog of books 7-10 isn't bothering you so far, but I will personally maintain that book 10, Crossroads of Twilight, is 99% filler garbage that could have been easily left out of the saga. Literally nothing happens and the book kind of just ends. I know that Robert Jordan was coping with illness and possibly getting a little overwhelmed with the world that he created, but I still don't think there was any excuse for drowning himself in his own world building with that book. IMO, much of books 7-10 could have been combined into ONE (or at most two) volumes without anything lost.
Thankfully, Knife of Dreams, book 11, picks up again. And I gotta say, Sanderson does a real good job swooping in to wrap things up. So much happens in his first book that it really shows how much the story had been lagging thus far.
If you're ever feeling burnt out or like reading these are a slog, I do recommend the audiobooks. New Spring is skippable altogether IMO, it doesn't offer THAT much of interest especially if you aren't a Moraine fan, and it was written around the same time as Crossroads of Twilight, which means that it's filled with the same kind of padding.
BTW, Mat continues to become radder and radder, so look forward to that. Rand changes in interesting ways (but becomes insufferable for a time), and Perrin alternates between annoying and endearing. Faile gets better (though is always kinda bitchy), and surprisingly, I kind of like Nynaeve now. Egwene though, ugh.
I will say that despite my fondness for the series, however, it definitely has some big flaws. I'm glad that the slog of books 7-10 isn't bothering you so far, but I will personally maintain that book 10, Crossroads of Twilight, is 99% filler garbage that could have been easily left out of the saga. Literally nothing happens and the book kind of just ends. I know that Robert Jordan was coping with illness and possibly getting a little overwhelmed with the world that he created, but I still don't think there was any excuse for drowning himself in his own world building with that book. IMO, much of books 7-10 could have been combined into ONE (or at most two) volumes without anything lost.
Thankfully, Knife of Dreams, book 11, picks up again. And I gotta say, Sanderson does a real good job swooping in to wrap things up. So much happens in his first book that it really shows how much the story had been lagging thus far.
If you're ever feeling burnt out or like reading these are a slog, I do recommend the audiobooks. New Spring is skippable altogether IMO, it doesn't offer THAT much of interest especially if you aren't a Moraine fan, and it was written around the same time as Crossroads of Twilight, which means that it's filled with the same kind of padding.
BTW, Mat continues to become radder and radder, so look forward to that. Rand changes in interesting ways (but becomes insufferable for a time), and Perrin alternates between annoying and endearing. Faile gets better (though is always kinda bitchy), and surprisingly, I kind of like Nynaeve now. Egwene though, ugh.
I'll raise my flame shield...
Even with up ad down, i vast
I prefer this to agot from Martin...
And Sanderson, being Sanderson, did an excellent job with his remaining part of the saga.. I had faith he could pull it off, after all mostborn was REALLY good, but he outdid my expectations
Even with up ad down, i vast
I prefer this to agot from Martin...
And Sanderson, being Sanderson, did an excellent job with his remaining part of the saga.. I had faith he could pull it off, after all mostborn was REALLY good, but he outdid my expectations
Oh, PoD is the one where Rand tries to oust the Seanchan. Now I remember. Arrogant Rand is worst Rand. The realisation that the Seanchan aren't going anywhere is one of my favourite series moments. That slow dawning that the landscape of the world is permanently changed and the mainlanders just have to Deal With It.
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That is the one thing that definitely is great about the series. It takes place over what, 4 years, and yet you see the politics and conquering shaping the world. Borders change, power shifts like quicksand as the Breaking happens on a metaphorical level, and their are actual geopolitics instead of ASOIAF's, these 7 familys have these 7 lands and everyone else is unimportant AF, oh these guys took these lands, but borders are still the same.
Oh god, you have no idea.
Because fucking Faile.
From here the rest of the series is more or less garbage, with one or two high spots at the end of very long and frustratingly slow reads. However the last couple of books are well written and wrap things up satisfactorily. So if you feel like giving in just tough it out and get to the end. It isn't easy, but you'll be glad you got there and climbed the mountain in the end.
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Winters Heart- Or how to fuck up an 11/10 book
My only other issues is the similar names, otherwise the series is seriously doing me a solid. Really interesting world, super cool locations, and the whole deal with Ter Angreal, Angreal, and Sa Angreal makes me want more focus on them. The one power not just being magic but a power that can have infitite uses with infitite conduits for their uses is such a baller idea. Crossroads of Twilight is starting off pretty strong too, the prologue has quite a few nice setups. Confused as hell on how the Tar Valon bits are before the siege and Gawyn's are after.
My god this book. It starts out as bad as it can get. Faile's kidnapped, Perrin gives no shit's that a Queen was also kidnapped, and things just meander from storyline to storyline. I vaguely remember some tower trouble with some Aes Sedai hunting down the black ajah, and what not. But that's it. But as the book goes further into the plot, it improves and improves, just building up on potential and delivering on all fronts. The bonding was stupid as fuck, but I love how the girls have to tavern dive because they are having a live porno playing in their heads. Then you have Rand in Far Madding doing what he has to do, with Nanaeve slowly realizing that duty is not an adventure, and that Lan is as fucked up as Rand. Cadsuane being Cadsuane. The entire Mat storyline with the Seanchan coming into play. That oh shit moment with Tuon's introduction. Mat's oh shit moment when he decides to kidnap the girl. This was all an amazing ride.
And then you have the Shadar Logoth Cleansing, the best showdown with the Forsaken yet! OMFG was this the best 30 pages in the series. Jumping between viewpoints, we see each ones motives. We slowly get details on what's happening with the cleansing of Saidin. The revelation that Verin is a Black Sister. So many details, so many events all at once, and its a worthy conclusion to this shitshow of a book. Should have been a bigger event, but I like how these major stuff are always lowkey megatons, showing the nature of the books that even the major stuff is notthing compared to the final battle, and big or small everything is just a piece of the puzzle. Another thing is Padan Fain, I hope to god with Shadar Logoth he has been weakened, or at the very least is now very aware of not trying to fuck with Rand.
Again, its not a spectacular book. But it does end up on the highest of notes, and at the very least Rand and Mat are having the time of their life. I am also super fucking confused, who the hell is Isam/Luc? Like, we know from Perrin's side that he's got Lan's looks. But from Tel Aron Rhiad we know he has Rand's looks. Is Lan or Rand the nephew? Is the whelp Min or Nenaeve? Or are they both? I have a suspicion he might be that brother to Morgase, but how the hell does that work if he is also Lan's Uncle. God this is confusing me.
And then you have the Shadar Logoth Cleansing, the best showdown with the Forsaken yet! OMFG was this the best 30 pages in the series. Jumping between viewpoints, we see each ones motives. We slowly get details on what's happening with the cleansing of Saidin. The revelation that Verin is a Black Sister. So many details, so many events all at once, and its a worthy conclusion to this shitshow of a book. Should have been a bigger event, but I like how these major stuff are always lowkey megatons, showing the nature of the books that even the major stuff is notthing compared to the final battle, and big or small everything is just a piece of the puzzle. Another thing is Padan Fain, I hope to god with Shadar Logoth he has been weakened, or at the very least is now very aware of not trying to fuck with Rand.
Again, its not a spectacular book. But it does end up on the highest of notes, and at the very least Rand and Mat are having the time of their life. I am also super fucking confused, who the hell is Isam/Luc? Like, we know from Perrin's side that he's got Lan's looks. But from Tel Aron Rhiad we know he has Rand's looks. Is Lan or Rand the nephew? Is the whelp Min or Nenaeve? Or are they both? I have a suspicion he might be that brother to Morgase, but how the hell does that work if he is also Lan's Uncle. God this is confusing me.
My only other issues is the similar names, otherwise the series is seriously doing me a solid. Really interesting world, super cool locations, and the whole deal with Ter Angreal, Angreal, and Sa Angreal makes me want more focus on them. The one power not just being magic but a power that can have infitite uses with infitite conduits for their uses is such a baller idea. Crossroads of Twilight is starting off pretty strong too, the prologue has quite a few nice setups. Confused as hell on how the Tar Valon bits are before the siege and Gawyn's are after.
Wait you read Path of Daggers before Crown of Swords? I always loved Crown of Swords.
Jordan had an issue with catching all the timelines up after Winter's Heart which is why Crossroads exists. I don't particularly love it but Knife is a great book so I'm able to get through it upon rereads.
Great series. Keep going!
Also give Blind Guardian's "Wheel of Time" and "Ride into Obsession" a listen when you get the chance.
Also give Blind Guardian's "Wheel of Time" and "Ride into Obsession" a listen when you get the chance.
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Yeah, I skiped ACOS cause I haven't bought it yet. Planning on to next week, but I really wanted to continue the series so I said fuck it and just catch up later.
Blind Guardian is WHY I started the series. Read ASOIAF up to Book 5, was listening to my favorite band, loved the song from the start, and when I put wheel of time into google I had a major OOOOOOHHH moment.
Likewise. Same with Game of Thrones and The Eternal Champion. Apparently there's a decent sized community out there who only got into all these series due to the music based off of them... which I sort of love.
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I am going to sound like an elitist ass right now, but I dunno if you can be a power metal fan and not at some point in your life discovered a couple or so high Fantasy series to read. I mean, they are so intertwined you can't not give notice to both sides.
I highly recommend The Wheel of Time Reread by Leigh Butler for anyone that's read the books before.
https://www.tor.com/features/series/wot-reread/
And apparently she's going through it again now that it's been many years later.
https://www.tor.com/tag/wheel-of-time-reread-redux/
I think the reread is either great for people who want to experience it again but don't want to take the time to read the books. Also, for someone doing their own reread if you get to a chapter or book you simply don't want to read you can read the reread summary to get everything you'll need plotwise in a smaller portion of the time.
I never finished the reread as I got distracted back when I was reading along but I do recall that the reread posts start becoming very lengthy as well. Don't expect a three paragraph summary for a chapter.
This thread has inspired me to make the great decision to buy all 15 books (New Spring included) on Kindle for my own reread. These books are comfort food for me as I've reread The Eye of the World probably six or seven times now? I think I've only read books 10-14 once so I'm looking forward to reaching those again eventually. As you go from book 9 back down to the first book the amount of times I reread them grows as I would sometimes reread the series before a release or whatever. I also did the audio books up to the current release more than a decade ago so I'm guessing up through book 10 or so?
I look forward to more updates in this thread and it seems like it's about time for me to start page one of 12,592.
https://www.tor.com/features/series/wot-reread/
And apparently she's going through it again now that it's been many years later.
https://www.tor.com/tag/wheel-of-time-reread-redux/
I think the reread is either great for people who want to experience it again but don't want to take the time to read the books. Also, for someone doing their own reread if you get to a chapter or book you simply don't want to read you can read the reread summary to get everything you'll need plotwise in a smaller portion of the time.
I never finished the reread as I got distracted back when I was reading along but I do recall that the reread posts start becoming very lengthy as well. Don't expect a three paragraph summary for a chapter.
This thread has inspired me to make the great decision to buy all 15 books (New Spring included) on Kindle for my own reread. These books are comfort food for me as I've reread The Eye of the World probably six or seven times now? I think I've only read books 10-14 once so I'm looking forward to reaching those again eventually. As you go from book 9 back down to the first book the amount of times I reread them grows as I would sometimes reread the series before a release or whatever. I also did the audio books up to the current release more than a decade ago so I'm guessing up through book 10 or so?
I look forward to more updates in this thread and it seems like it's about time for me to start page one of 12,592.
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So uh before I post about Crossroad of Twilight. We sure, I mean like absolutely sure this is considered the "bad" one? Cause I am quite confused about that sentiment.
The Shadow Rising is one of my favorite fantasy books of all time. The Aiel are so fucking dope. Aviendha <3
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I love her soft wetlanders philosophy. Those chapter when she's with Elayne in later books with her reluctance to dress in silk are utterly hilarious, and the punchline of someone actually trying to tie her boots for her just had me rolling for 3 minutes straight. The Aiel in general are great in that way. People see them as spear totting savages, but in a lot of ways are way more civil and pragmatic about life. The undercurrents of western refinery and sophstication compared to the eastern, or well in real life southern, pragmaticism being portrayed the way it is in the books is definitely low key one of the best aspects of the books. Of course there is Shara as well, from what I understand the true Africa of the world, but we know so little about it that I dunno if there are other ways to view things. The seanchan are just wtf though, I can't understand what he was trying to portray or what message he was passing there.
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So yeah. Crossroads of Twilight. Or as I would prefer, I probably have no idea on how to critique or judge anything. Cause it wasn't that bad?
A solid 7/10 if only if I am a sucker for world building. Also bought a Crown of Swords on Google Play, so before Knife of Dreams I'm gonna read it to get a generally understanding of how everything in books 8 and 9 got setup.
Yes, the plot goes from nowhere to nowhere a little later, but a proper setup novel, just before the endgame is a requirement imo, and it does that splendidly. Instead of dealing with 10 million plot threads, there are only 4 or 5, and the result is a focused, tightly woven, yeat meandering romp that allows us to understand the world a little better.
The prologue is the only real issue. It just drops you into new PoV characters, with them just acting as teases or vantage points at various places in the world, with no real follow up. Like why give us Gawyn but no later Gawyn chapters? Why focus on Arad Doman when it has no plot focus? I mean it was cool to see some of the worldbuilding, as well as the visit to what has to be one of Graendal's old hideouts, but some of the plot threads there were generally more interesting then some of the later stuff. But eh, it had its moments, and that Cuendillar payoff was a sweet way to end the book, Mat going all 6th Sense was a big wtf considering Perrin is also dealing with some 2spooky events, and I am not entirely sure what the point of the Rand chapters were because his plot goes nowhere except to tell us that the cleansing of saidin and doing shit for him yet. I also am curious as to what the hell Suroth is up to, with that Tuon Bamboozle plot being setup.
The prologue is the only real issue. It just drops you into new PoV characters, with them just acting as teases or vantage points at various places in the world, with no real follow up. Like why give us Gawyn but no later Gawyn chapters? Why focus on Arad Doman when it has no plot focus? I mean it was cool to see some of the worldbuilding, as well as the visit to what has to be one of Graendal's old hideouts, but some of the plot threads there were generally more interesting then some of the later stuff. But eh, it had its moments, and that Cuendillar payoff was a sweet way to end the book, Mat going all 6th Sense was a big wtf considering Perrin is also dealing with some 2spooky events, and I am not entirely sure what the point of the Rand chapters were because his plot goes nowhere except to tell us that the cleansing of saidin and doing shit for him yet. I also am curious as to what the hell Suroth is up to, with that Tuon Bamboozle plot being setup.
A solid 7/10 if only if I am a sucker for world building. Also bought a Crown of Swords on Google Play, so before Knife of Dreams I'm gonna read it to get a generally understanding of how everything in books 8 and 9 got setup.
Read that series over half the span of my life. Drags (a lot) in parts and some characters are hard to read through. Also there are 1057385 side characters. Not really satisfied with the seanchan but overall i liked the wrapping up by Sanderson.
A lot of really hype moments i will always remember
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If you have the breath, go fir the series..
A lot of really hype moments i will always remember
how Rand levels that Castle with balefire
If you have the breath, go fir the series..
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Fires of Heaven, right? When he goes after Rahvin? Yeah that indeed is some if the best action in the series. Lanfear gies after him, Moraine is dead and his mind is set, the Forsaken poked the bear too many times. Going in and out of Tel Aran Rhiod was also amazing, with the girls trying to figure out just how in the name of god is Rand and Rahvin just popping in and out if the Dream World like that./SPOILER]
Unless he does that later on, in which, I can't wait. When they go full beam war its always a sight to behold.
Unless he does that later on, in which, I can't wait. When they go full beam war its always a sight to behold.
Haha, I already like the book tbqh, so I may like the series too much as well, ignoring any obvious flaws.[/SPOILER]
I can't read this thread since I'm on book 4 but I'm chiming in to say I pretty much love this series so far and it's great to see some discussion about it. TOR.com has had a cool first-timer article series going on for the past few months -- not sure if it's been linked, but check it out!
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Hmm yeah, gonna check it out. Those types of articles always point things out you might miss on your first read or even on a reread.
I'm just finishing up a reread of the series (audiobook actually), and yeah, the books that I was disappointed in before, are much better now. The problem is, certain characters were just gone for more than one book, and one of the books takes place in just a couple weeks, and when you've been waiting years to find out what happens next, it can be very disappointing; and frustrating. But great things happen in every book, it's obviously spending time getting all the various characters re-synced up and ready to advance the main plot, and even the annoying bits were overblown in my mind.
Having said that, Knife of Dreams is just amazing after the previous two books.
Having said that, Knife of Dreams is just amazing after the previous two books.
You're good people, OP. The WoT series has flaws up the wazoo, but overall, it is an awesome read. Based on your writings so far, your opinions on the stuff mirrors mine.
Donos' spoiler is not anywhere "Mid through" though. It is very late into the books, one of the Sanderson ones.
Donos' spoiler is not anywhere "Mid through" though. It is very late into the books, one of the Sanderson ones.
Out of interest, which one are you referring to? It's been a while since I read Memory of Light.
And thanks for this thread OP. Bringing back some brilliant (and the occasional exasperated) memories.
I read them all back to back on kindle so they all blended into one giant novel. I really enjoyed it and still think about the story and world from time to time. I absolutely hated how women were portrayed in the series. I don't think I liked a single female character because they were written like bitchy arrogant shrews. The males aren't much better to be fair. Rand is an emo baby for 80% of the series, Perrin is just boring, and Matt is obnoxious and extemely unlikable until near the end.
And yet I still loved the series. I'll probably reread in a few years.
And yet I still loved the series. I'll probably reread in a few years.
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I thought there were a few spots where she came off poorly, but true, by the end I did really like her.
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Its not easy to buy fantasy novels in English over here, so I bought them in bulk when I could. That means I found most of them in store, but not crown of swords. I had bought up to book 12 when I could, and since I'm kinda broke to be buying books, well until recently that is, I just didn't want to stop reading because of one book.
It's easy to say Rand behaved like an emo kid most of the time but if you read the whole series it's really clear how much he had on his shoulders and hkw the pressure of being the dragon reborn shapes your life. Rand is really one of the characters where i think he was written really good And his development made sense.
Great series, and each are great books, up to and including Lord of Chaos. Maybe a Crown of Swords.
After that, the series goes downhill for me. Instead of getting wholly enjoyable books, I feel we receive some enjoyable moments among an unwieldily mess.
In my case, it became an exercise in willpower to not skip ahead and read only one character's story arc and be done with the rest
After that, the series goes downhill for me. Instead of getting wholly enjoyable books, I feel we receive some enjoyable moments among an unwieldily mess.
In my case, it became an exercise in willpower to not skip ahead and read only one character's story arc and be done with the rest
(my favorite character Mat; his story keeps it moving)
Loved this series.
And it probably fairs much better now than back then as the the middle booksnsloggrd when there werr years between release.
Issues that I have.
There was one question alot of the fanbase had that Robert Jordan said was clearly answered, but it was never really was. Spoiling it out of courtesy
So I do think there were some times where Jordan failed in that regard.
As for op, I'm interested when you get to Brandon Sanderson's books, there is a tonal shift but its probably much more pronounced to someone reading the books in a row.
And it probably fairs much better now than back then as the the middle booksnsloggrd when there werr years between release.
Issues that I have.
There was one question alot of the fanbase had that Robert Jordan said was clearly answered, but it was never really was. Spoiling it out of courtesy
Who killed Asmodean
So I do think there were some times where Jordan failed in that regard.
As for op, I'm interested when you get to Brandon Sanderson's books, there is a tonal shift but its probably much more pronounced to someone reading the books in a row.
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But it was clear as day.
Lanfear was in Cairhien by then, and he set it up in that way to make sure you absolutely understand that much later in book 5. His death was an announcement or tease if you would that the crazy bitch finally caught up to Rand.
It was actually graendal, lanfear already had her battle with moraine at that point
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Shit you're right. I was thinking maybe it was after the ressurection. I mean
The girl who is Egwene's bed maid HAS to be Lanfear,right? I mean the headaches, the nightmares Egwene forgets, the way she can make men bounce her on their knees...
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Nope. Though if you do want to know who she is (it will be revealed eventually)
it is Aran'gar, AKA one of the two Forsaken from the first book, Balthamel, resurrected into a womans body, but still channeling Saidin.
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Aaaaaaah that makes sense. I guess the reveal would have been sweeter than you straight up telling me though.
I can guess the ressurections so far are:
Arangar is Bathamael.
Osan'Gar is Aginor? With the naming scheme, I can only assume the ressurections work in order or how the deaths are done. Since they were killed by the same weave at the same time, it can only be done this way.
Moridin is.....Sammael? Or Ishmael. I would think Sammael, as he was the one killed right after those two.
If AranGar isn't Lanfear, then its definitely Cyndane. Which goes against my order of killing theory, but she is so important to getting Rand, so the dark one definitely won't let her die.
Arangar is Bathamael.
Osan'Gar is Aginor? With the naming scheme, I can only assume the ressurections work in order or how the deaths are done. Since they were killed by the same weave at the same time, it can only be done this way.
Moridin is.....Sammael? Or Ishmael. I would think Sammael, as he was the one killed right after those two.
If AranGar isn't Lanfear, then its definitely Cyndane. Which goes against my order of killing theory, but she is so important to getting Rand, so the dark one definitely won't let her die.
I think that's everyone. This is too spoilery a discussion for me right now, but what the hell.
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Well yeah, but I still open spoilers wuthout a care. Still made sense anyway, what with
Saidin related murders in the siege camps outside of Tar Valon.
Not worth a new thread since I gather IGN reported on it months ago, but I at least saw Tor and Deadline confirm that the Amazon TV series for Wheel of Time is currently a go. Script work is ongoing.
Considering the monstrous sum being spent by them on LOTR I'm not sure how much traction this will get, but at least we can expect something competent and not constricted by the 22.5 minute universe of network TV.
Considering the monstrous sum being spent by them on LOTR I'm not sure how much traction this will get, but at least we can expect something competent and not constricted by the 22.5 minute universe of network TV.
