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Asian ERA |OT| We don't AGE
- Thread starter Pet
- Start date
You know, real talk, that's a question that bothers me.
I'm American, born and raised. But, as an American, I don't have any culture. America is so new that there aren't any roots here.
Like I'll look at Hawaiian people, or Native Americans, who still practice the dances of their "culture," you know? There's a sense of community in them. But... what do Americans have? Line dancing? Barn raising? Sister fucking? (jk on the last one okay).
My parents are from Asia. By that logic, you'd assume that my culture should be stuff like dragon dances and ribbon dances and all of that-- but I'm not Chinese in the sense that that's not my culture either. When I think about participating in any of those, I feel like a fraud... like I'm doing the movements without understanding the history behind it. Even just learning about it in a book here doesn't seem like it's the same as it being a cultural thing. Part of it, sure, is that Mao came and wiped out a lot of traditional stuff, which is a mindset bleeding into Chinese people even today imho.
But anyway I already don't "feel" Chinese and my kids will be even further from it. I feel like I've already lost my roots, that I don't have any. I'd even argue that holding onto it will just be excuses for other Americans to point to us and say "look see they don't want to integrate, they just wanna do their own thing, hang out with their own people" (because I see that sentiment ALL the time, even here on ERA when people try to excuse why they don't like "foreign Asian immigrant students"), though I suspect it's more to do with blatant racism and they'll find something else to be racist "but not racist, totally justified" about.
Okay sorry for that long rant, but it really strikes a super personal nerve that really, really, really bothers me. Just the feeling of being.... cut off, or not connected, with my "roots" - I don't feel like I HAVE any roots.
(Maybe I can start with own culture with hookers and blow!
Sometimes being a so cal asian feels like its own unique subculture.)
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Whatever the intent, doing that pose while wearing a qipao has extra connotations that come with it, so I think the meme stuff is just a deflection.
Also being a h3h3 fan is probably worse than the dress.
Just wait until you have kids!
Here's the thing: our culture is what we make it. We can enjoy and partake in the society we exist in and call out the shit parts of it at the same time. The most important part is not forgetting where we come from and internalize it as a strength and not a weakness. Be proud of who you are when others tell you not to be or that you are "less than..." and fight anyone that does.
Yeah, it's not a good combo.
I'm more bothered by some peoples' dismissive reactions. It's like all or nothing.
I also consider myself American first and foremost and have no real roots or culture. I've never had any problem with it. I actually think it's pretty liberating.
It weirds me out when I see people around me with cultural traditions because I have none.
It weirds me out when I see people around me with cultural traditions because I have none.
And wtf at the meme deflection/gaslighting. Is there such an ardent defense in other race-related topics?
It's especially funny because they're saying it's from H3H3, lol. The guy that defended JonTron's terrible, terrible racist rant. The people who can't help themselves because their "entertainment" draws in Alt-Right/Neo Nazi idiots.
Like.... Come on. Come on.
I've been thinking about this for a while, but I think we need to blow up May with some serious Asian-American subjects:
Gold Rush/Boxer Rebellion
Chinese Massacres in Cali
Bachelors society/Chinese Exclusion Act
Japanese internment
Richard Aoki training Black Panthers/Red Guard in SF
Vincent Chin
I'm only one person though...haha
Gold Rush/Boxer Rebellion
Chinese Massacres in Cali
Bachelors society/Chinese Exclusion Act
Japanese internment
Richard Aoki training Black Panthers/Red Guard in SF
Vincent Chin
I'm only one person though...haha
Power of Sparda - you could if you're up to it. I don't really have the willpower to write about it.
Be prepared for lots of remarks about Chinese dresses though. Like, now THIS is something to be upset about.
Be prepared for lots of remarks about Chinese dresses though. Like, now THIS is something to be upset about.
You can try and get something up Power of Sparda. I'm not really good at typing out my thoughts, but I would definitely like to see your thread and possibly have a post or two, lol.
I wanted to add this before I went to bed but I also found it a little disturbing how any sort of criticism regarding cultural appropriation is framed as diametrically opposed to multi-culturalism, done straight-faced under the guise of 'progressivism' too.
I sort of began to realize this yesterday and it's 100% true - it extends to basically any thread about racism too. They have no frame of reference to empathize with PoC, or even lack any incentive to, which is why we see so much hand wringing over intent. It's much more convenient, and less uncomfortable, taking the side of people like the girl in the dress rather than considering how actual minorities may feel.
Glad that thread got closed. Was going nowhere fast. As for comments about ERA and its general views on race...I mean, I think I've been saying this for a while now. This was what was happening on GAF OT before the split, and that group came here. <shrug>.
Pet - I think a lot of the fear around appropriation of culture from asians in the US is rooted heavily in our own significant insecurities in our own connections to that culture. I personally don't feel awkward about it - but I also grew up in a place where there was no significant asian population, so our assimilation was a lot more thorough than most asians in the US I think. I still have plenty of parts of my culture in me, but I do not feel inferior for not having the ties my parents do. I joke all the time about being a bad Indian, after all. :D
Power of Sparda good luck - though I think I know how those threads will get derailed.
Pet - I think a lot of the fear around appropriation of culture from asians in the US is rooted heavily in our own significant insecurities in our own connections to that culture. I personally don't feel awkward about it - but I also grew up in a place where there was no significant asian population, so our assimilation was a lot more thorough than most asians in the US I think. I still have plenty of parts of my culture in me, but I do not feel inferior for not having the ties my parents do. I joke all the time about being a bad Indian, after all. :D
Power of Sparda good luck - though I think I know how those threads will get derailed.
"It's not racist."
Yeah I'm sure if some little Chinese high school kid put on a charcoal mask and made gang signs, it'd totally be not racist at all to these people too.
Like, whatever, some people don't want white people parading around in their ethnic garb. Not surprised since in the US white people kind of have a history of raping and murdering and discriminating those same ethnic groups in other contexts. I can't say it honestly bothers me personally-- wear what you want (but I kinda feel this way about all things - Native American headdresses, dreadlocks, kimonos), but I can understand why others might not feel the same way.
*edit: That's the thing, Cybit . I don't ... feel Chinese. And I don't mean this in a self hating way, I have no desires to be white, but in a... China is a country with their own culture and I'm just not a part of it in any way, therefore, I'm not Chinese. I guess I feel American, but not like raised in a barn in Iowa eating nothing but beef and corn kind of American, but ... Asian American? Boba and pho and raves in college kinda thing.
hi hi hi
sorry, work has been absolutely killing me at the moment in real and i haven't been paying attention (a massive restructure is going on and everyone's anxious and i mean, even I am anxious but i'm supposed to be the one that provides other anxious people an outlet) (the prospect of losing jobs is scary :<)
what is the bad thread?
(also there's a few other asian mods to call on if i'm not around !) (Galvan, Queen Kong, to name a couple...)
As one of those raised in a barn (not really, but relatively speaking, rural area) in the midwest folks, all y'all are as American as anyone else. Most of us from there would agree. I mean, part of what's complicated about being "American" is that "American" is a big mish-mash of other cultures. So, the indian guy eating Mexican food with his white Irish-Polish-German wife and then going to get gelato afterward is pretty American. I'm actually pretty proud of that. That can't happen easily in other countries. (I tend to call myself Indian-American)
It's pretty bad even in Hong Kong, which is frequently viewed as the most 'westernized' of the East Asian sphere.
As I like to say, there's nothing more Albertan than steak, perogies, and ginger beef. The last one is an Asian-Canadian invention.
Oh, and green onion cakes too.
edit: Oh wait, samosas too.
At least this forum seem sympathetic towards Indians and their issues. So they like some Asians?
I wouldn't say so; just look at the first page of the Groening response thread.
Do we even have Asian representation on the Moderator team?
Seems like most other groups are represented in some way.
Seems like most other groups are represented in some way.
Yea I don't have strong opinions about it saw it and was like cool. Then read the comments and like the fuck? People arguing just to argue.
Pet I feel you on not "feeling Chinese..." I feel so far removed from Taiwan and Chinese culture sometimes I feel like an impostor. I can't get the language down, I don't have a solid Chinese friend group, my mom is pretty isolated and her whole family is back in Taiwan so I wasn't surrounded by big groups of my own, so I feel more American. It's weird being in this limbo where you're not particularly attached to anything but you still care about your roots.
There are at least 3 Asian mods, but spider is the only one that participates in this thread.
For those in the US, happy Asian Pacific American Heritage Month!
To follow up on my post yesterday, I'm going to try and have something up next week. Work and kids take up a lot of time. Who knew!
APAHM was best in college. Shit was like a month long pot-luck of everyone constantly bringing food into the API center lol
Apologies for the late reply, Llyranor :( It's half past midnight at the moment over here and I'm basically just now able to sit in front of the computer... I'll definitely try to do better. Very bad time in real, at the moment for me. Seems thread has now been locked? . __ .
But I will try to do better. Failing that, any of you can always voice your frustration openly or privately at my face. I can't promise rainbows but I can promise to be genuine. Pet can vouch for my character (i hope)... but yeah. I am very sorry not to have been able to at least be present and available for such a turbulent thread.
Hmm I've been thinking about your post Pet, about how you don't feel Chinese but feeling American, you can't pinpoint any culture...
I don't know much about the US at all, but pretty much 90% of friends and colleagues have been from Asia since I was 17.
To the point that I have maybe 2-3 friends that were born in my country. I'm mixed af I have no culture to claim either, but every now and then I'll feel very British when I end up hanging out with another brit.
So like, at the village they put on the classic karaoke songs. YMCA, some Culture Club... And the Chinese girl didn't know what any of it was. Everyone else in the bar is doing the dance together. It makes me feel that cultural divide when things like that happens, but without the juxtaposition I never claim it to be mine.
So I wonder if the big takeaway is that America does have culture all Americans would share, but they do a good job in making it feel like it belongs to white people.
Like, you being up bobo tea and pho, but if I stereotype and say you also know how to dance to Soulja Boy or put fries in your milkshake, then that culture is yours as an American.
I may be off base, but the UK and US are sort of like melting pots, and the worst thing is whenever something is part of history it feels like only white people own it.
Even as half white, I don't feel like I can claim cottage pie anymore than an immigrant can.
~
So I thought more about this because one of my mates is a British Chinese girl who feels like she isn't Chinese enough (customers will try and speak in Mandarin... And be confused that she can't speak back) and she doesn't feel like she's entirely at home despite being the most Mancunian girl I've met. In that, she doesn't feel "cultured" either, but at the end of the day we could both dance the macarena if it came on and gets pissed up until the wee hours.
I don't know much about the US at all, but pretty much 90% of friends and colleagues have been from Asia since I was 17.
To the point that I have maybe 2-3 friends that were born in my country. I'm mixed af I have no culture to claim either, but every now and then I'll feel very British when I end up hanging out with another brit.
So like, at the village they put on the classic karaoke songs. YMCA, some Culture Club... And the Chinese girl didn't know what any of it was. Everyone else in the bar is doing the dance together. It makes me feel that cultural divide when things like that happens, but without the juxtaposition I never claim it to be mine.
So I wonder if the big takeaway is that America does have culture all Americans would share, but they do a good job in making it feel like it belongs to white people.
Like, you being up bobo tea and pho, but if I stereotype and say you also know how to dance to Soulja Boy or put fries in your milkshake, then that culture is yours as an American.
I may be off base, but the UK and US are sort of like melting pots, and the worst thing is whenever something is part of history it feels like only white people own it.
Even as half white, I don't feel like I can claim cottage pie anymore than an immigrant can.
~
So I thought more about this because one of my mates is a British Chinese girl who feels like she isn't Chinese enough (customers will try and speak in Mandarin... And be confused that she can't speak back) and she doesn't feel like she's entirely at home despite being the most Mancunian girl I've met. In that, she doesn't feel "cultured" either, but at the end of the day we could both dance the macarena if it came on and gets pissed up until the wee hours.
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I've never seen anyone do it. I just watched it in a CW show and was grossed out.
Let's be honest, putting fries in your ketchup is what I call a "white people thing."
I tried dunking my fries AND chicken nuggets in a Wendy's frosting before because reddit was like oh my god it's AMAZING. My reaction-- wtf this isn't good AT ALL. Definitely a white people thing.
D65 - Oh, and tons of white people who live in this city of 50% Asians have never had boba even though we have it on every corner. Of course, they're white AF and do things like listen to country music and go to country festivals (and tbh I'm highly suspect of them because I think y'all know what kind of white people are like that). So, American LOOKS integrated but I promise you we are not. We live in these small bubbles. It's weird haha.
Krisp - all my friends are Asian American, tbh. Some were born in Asia but moved here at like...two or three. The more recent immigrants don't really hang out with the ABCs, they have their own friend group. So I guess I definitely feel like I am with "my" people, but on a deeper level I feel cultureless and isolated from the "greater" group. Like, the extent of belonging is this small 20 by 20 mile square. I care about my roots but I'm not even sure what my roots are. It's weird. Anyway we still have to get sushi :D
spider I think you're wonderful :). I know you care about these issues! And you're doing a great job, I understand you are also busy with RL stuff <3
I tried dunking my fries AND chicken nuggets in a Wendy's frosting before because reddit was like oh my god it's AMAZING. My reaction-- wtf this isn't good AT ALL. Definitely a white people thing.
D65 - Oh, and tons of white people who live in this city of 50% Asians have never had boba even though we have it on every corner. Of course, they're white AF and do things like listen to country music and go to country festivals (and tbh I'm highly suspect of them because I think y'all know what kind of white people are like that). So, American LOOKS integrated but I promise you we are not. We live in these small bubbles. It's weird haha.
Krisp - all my friends are Asian American, tbh. Some were born in Asia but moved here at like...two or three. The more recent immigrants don't really hang out with the ABCs, they have their own friend group. So I guess I definitely feel like I am with "my" people, but on a deeper level I feel cultureless and isolated from the "greater" group. Like, the extent of belonging is this small 20 by 20 mile square. I care about my roots but I'm not even sure what my roots are. It's weird. Anyway we still have to get sushi :D
spider I think you're wonderful :). I know you care about these issues! And you're doing a great job, I understand you are also busy with RL stuff <3
Ah, in that case I feel you. Ofc when I went San Jose and watched the fireworks from this hill and 100% of everyone else were Asian because it was an Asian neighbourhood... That was a bit of a shock to me.
Anyway for the UK...
There's many Chinese things that are sort of exclusive to people living say, near China Town in Manc, but typically only the students separate out like that. And even then these places are like 50% white because a lot of students don't like it. For British Asian, or rather, Indian/Pakistani, their culture has been absorbed enough that it's part of Britishness like currys etc. It's something everyone consumes.
Anyway for the UK...
There's many Chinese things that are sort of exclusive to people living say, near China Town in Manc, but typically only the students separate out like that. And even then these places are like 50% white because a lot of students don't like it. For British Asian, or rather, Indian/Pakistani, their culture has been absorbed enough that it's part of Britishness like currys etc. It's something everyone consumes.
All of y'all are eating some strange combination of foods..... That I should probably try when I get the chances to because they sound decent enough to eat.
Dipping fries in soft serve ice cream is the best tho.
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I found a place that sells rice cakes and gochujang so now I can basically have toppoki/tteokbokki whenever I want. I can't get enough of the stuff.
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I found a place that sells rice cakes and gochujang so now I can basically have toppoki/tteokbokki whenever I want. I can't get enough of the stuff.